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Ukraine Bracing for Major Russian Assault in the East; Zelensky Says, Mariupol Destroyed, Tens of Thousands Dead There; Zelenskyy Pleads for Weapons as Russia Intensifies Attacks. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 11, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:30]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: I never get used to images like that.

We're also getting a fresh look at the damage in Irpin. These images from our Frederik Pleitgen showing just a fraction of the destroyed vehicles in that city after Ukrainian forces pushed the Russians out.

And this morning, the battle for Donbas is under way. Officials are reporting a new round of shelling, the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. The fighting there expected to be a pivotal moment in this war.

CNN is covering the latest across the ground in Ukraine.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: CNN Anchor Brianna Keilar, she's live in Lviv this morning.

Brianna, Russian forces now, they've withdrawn from around Kyiv. They're focusing their firepower on Eastern Ukraine. One regional governor says a town near Kharkiv is now the hottest spot in the fighting so far. It's amazing how quickly we've seen the focus shift.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It really is, Jim. And I spoke earlier to the mayor of Kharkiv and he was saying that, over the weekend, they were facing unrelenting shelling, topped off at the end of the days by cruise missiles. He said a lot of this damage being done in civilian areas. He said there are 1,600-plus buildings that have been destroyed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR IHOR TEREKHOV, KHARKIV, UKRAINE: We have a lot of damage done to the infrastructure and also we have casualties, we have people with injuries. The situation is quite difficult.

We also have new types of weapons being used against us. We have seen ammunition that has a time delay, so it strikes and then it waits a while before it explodes. Also, we have quite lethal ammunition being used where we have specific civilian targets aimed at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That was very atrocious what he was talking about. These are explosives that land and don't explode. Instead, they spit out a number of smaller mines, several, up to two dozen, and then they go off on time delay. And he talked about that these are landing in civilian areas. So, there have been reports of these being in people's gardens, being where children play.

So, there's no other reason obviously for Russian forces to be doing this other than to terrorize civilians, other than to terrorize Ukrainians, and I think it's certainly working. You have ordinance removal teams that are very, very busy there in Kharkiv.

But it was also interesting, Jim and Bianna, because the mayor singled out not once but twice Great Britain, not America, when he was thanking them for their help and also talking about how they could exert diplomatic pressure.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it was quite breathtaking to see those images of President Zelenskyy there with Boris Johnson walking through the streets of Kyiv, really sending a powerful message around the world, not to mention Russia.

I'm just curious, you know, it's easy, Brianna, to get used to hearing the Ukrainians seven weeks in say that they need more ammunition, they need more ammunition and weaponry from the west. But now that a new chapter in this war has opened there in the east, are you getting a sense that there's even more anxiety among Ukrainians when they say, we need these weapons as of yesterday?

KEILAR: Yes, a lot of anxiety, and part of that is because of supplying these areas is going to be so much tougher. A lot of this stuff comes in obviously from NATO countries. It's being funneled from the Polish border, for instance, easier to get to, say, Kyiv, much more difficult to get to Donetsk. There's a little less coverage in moving things in that direction. And I think they're also worried about potentially being encircled. They want to have lots of supplies of weapons and anxiety, I think, is a very good way to put it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You have to cross the entire country from Poland to get to those new battle lines there in the east.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Brianna, thank you.

Well, let's bring in CNN's Clarissa Ward live in Kyiv. And, Clarissa, this morning, President Zelenskyy says that tens of thousands have died in Mariupol, but it could be quite some time before we know the full number of Ukrainians killed in Russia's attacks. This, of course, is what he was speaking with the South Korean parliament today. Talk more about what he said.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, this really was, Bianna, sort of impassioned plea to the South Korean parliament to up the ante in terms of the amount and type of weaponry being supplied to Ukraine. He was appealing specifically for tanks but also for airplanes, weapons that he said would give Ukraine, quote, a chance to survive this next offensive in the east of the country. He mentioned or claimed, I should say, that 10,000 civilians have been killed in the city of Mariupol. Now, it's impossible to get independently verified numbers of casualties but, certainly, that port city of half a million has been the site of some of the most brutal and relentless and indiscriminate bombardment.

[10:05:01]

We saw the theater there bomb, which was sheltering hundreds of people. We saw a maternity hospital, where women were preparing for or had just given birth also targeted.

Take a look a listen to what else President Zelenskyy said about how crucial this moment is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We still cannot determine the number of dead. From the north to the south of the country, in all areas where Russian shells reached, bombs reached, the dismantling of debris is still ongoing. Active hostilities are still going on in part of our territory.

Russia is preparing another offensive, hoping to break our national resistance after all. The occupiers concentrated tens of thousands of soldiers on a huge amount of equipment in order to try and strike again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WARD: So, as the Ukrainian military prepares for an intensification of Russian aggression in the east, Mariupol is also preparing itself more than 40 days now that this city has been completely surrounded. There are fears now from Ukrainian officials that they could be even using potentially or preparing to use Russian forces phosphorous munitions with potentially devastating effect, because despite the indiscriminate and relentless bombardment, Russian forces still have not yet been able to take over the city. And the mayor of Mariupol, just a few days ago, told CNN that he believes the ultimate goal appears to be right now to wipe Mariupol off the face of the earth.

One more thing that's worth underscoring here in terms of why this has been the site of such a pitched battle, this is strategically a very important city for the Russians to capture. It would allow them to have a sort of land corridor from the Russian mainland, directly to Crimea, but also, strategically, it's important because they are potentially, it seems, trying to entirely cut off Ukraine from the sea. Jim, Bianna?

SCIUTTO: The deputy mayor of Mariupol, weeks ago, warned us of what was happening in that city. And he said people were being slaughtered in great numbers, and now we're seeing the proof of that. Clarissa Ward, thanks so much.

Joining us to speak about this, retired U.S. Army Major John Spencer and CNN National Security Analyst Steve Hall, he's former CIA Chief of Russia Operations, knows a thing or two about how the Kremlin operates. Thanks to both of you this morning.

I do want to ask you, Major Spencer, because General Hertling last hour brought up the Katyn massacre, going back to World War II, still infamous to this day. 22,000 Polish officers killed by the Soviet army. We still talk about that as a war crime of historic proportions. Now, we're looking at Ukraine in the year 2022 and getting evidence from Bucha to Mariupol of war crimes or at least alleged on a similar scale.

Is there, General Spencer, a moment at which the U.S. and NATO say, this is a red line, we have to act more directly?

MAJ. JOHN SPENCER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes, I wish, I would hope so, especially the United Nations and the world. How many times do we have to watch on our T.V.s, even over the weekend, the bombing of a train station, no military in sight, just a lot of civilians and written, for the children, on the missile. I mean, how much more do we have to watch?

So, yes, I'm hopeful but I understand the concerns, but I'm also -- I feel the anxiety of what President Zelenskyy is talking about, the time is right now to help. If help doesn't happen now, time is running out.

GOLODRYGA: And, Steve, on that note, as we're hearing ominous warnings about what's to come in the weeks ahead, we hear this commander on the ground there in Eastern Ukraine, the next chapter of this war, Aleksandr Dvornikov, who is known as the Butcher of Syria. Given what we know about him and the U.S. intelligence knows about him specifically during his time in Syria, could this be part of any intelligence sharing that the U.S. could be providing to Ukraine in terms of his method of operations, what they can expect to see him do and can conduct on the ground there?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, Bianna, I think there is. There's got to be robust intelligence sharing between the western intelligence services to include with the United States with Ukraine. But, frankly, I think the new commander that is now -- the Russian commander that's now in charge of the war in Ukraine, I don't think secret level intelligence is really going to reveal much more than we already really know about how the Russians conduct war.

So, we are entering the second phase of this war and it does begin or it is beginning to look much more like one of these grinding wars of attrition where you're going to have an Aleppo-type of situation or a Grozny-type of situation.

I don't think those tactics are going to change much because that's just part of how Putin approaches warfare.

[10:10:03]

He views it not just as tactical skilled military but using his military to inflict terror, which is very much part of his tradition.

SCIUTTO: Terror and death. Major Spencer, and, by the way, apologies, I promoted you to general when I addressed you before. Is there a weapon or weapon class or category of weapons short of a no-fly zone, right, which has already ruled out by U.S. and NATO leaders that can make a difference to blunt what it appears Russia has planned for the east? Is it surface-to-air missiles? Some of those are going in. Is it or is this a matter of a bloody fight to come?

SPENCER: So, I think the answer is both. Absolutely, we're entering a new phase, new type. This isn't defending the cities. This is going to be more of an open terrain battle where -- and we're seeing massive amounts of forces moving in the staging areas to try to create some type of win for Russia. So, absolutely, they need longer, bigger weapons.

So, the S-300 multiple launch rocket systems, long range artillery tanks, I mean, he needs big weapons that can impact farther out while he's still defending terrain and urban is a part of that. But any chance here, that stuff has to get in there very fast.

And you mentioned -- they mentioned earlier about it's a lot harder to get to this area and to get that equipment in there. So, the speed is a concern.

GOLODRYGA: And, Steve, as we talk about the desperately needed victory for Vladimir Putin, you look at the calendar, May 9th, Victory Day parade there in Moscow, I can't imagine that saying, listen, we've got some of Donbas, Donetsk and Luhansk, and here's what I got to show for it given the thousands of casualties there. I do worry and I wonder if you do as well about what this means for the fate of Mariupol in the next two weeks. Could that be the victory that he is looking for?

HALL: Yes, and I think your sense on that is right, Bianna. He, being Putin, is looking for some sort of historical marker, some sort of way that he can celebrate Russian victories, as he is -- as Putin is portraying them inside of Russia. Will it be the conquering, quote/unquote, of Mariupol? Because we know that taking a city or taking even a swath of land is far different from actually controlling it over the long-term.

But that's all irrelevant to the propaganda machine that Putin runs inside of Russia. So, it could very well be Mariupol. But, again, if that doesn't go well, he'll make something else up because that's one thing that the Russians are really good at is spinning nothing -- spinning whatever impression they want to leave out of nothing. So, it will be interesting to see how they play that.

SCIUTTO: Major Spencer, yet again, and we have a picture of this, another long, in this case, eight-mile long Russian convoy. We spoke a lot about Russia's difficulty supplying their forces and really getting caught out in the middle of the field, right, in that convoy around Kyiv suffered enormous damage. What are they up to here? First of all, it's an enormous amount of force heading east but also vulnerably, right? SPENCER: Yes, absolutely. And I think they're taking those risks because they know that they're being pushed for a sense of urgency to create that win, right? So, a new commander, but that's reportedly over 400 vehicles on a single road headed southeast to about, I think, that's going to happen over Izyum in the next couple of days, extremely vulnerable, but, right, if they don't have the systems to attack it, then the Ukrainians kind of have to sit and watch. But, hopefully, they're able to attack it but it's also moving into more open terrain. Yes, I mean, it's really bad tactics to just to take a long convoy on open roads and Russia has learned that lesson but it is concerning, for sure.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The Ukrainians definitely can't let their guard down now at this point. Steve Hall, Major John Spencer, thank you.

And straight ahead this hour, President Zelenskyy warns the outcome of the war on Ukraine could depend on how much help his country is getting from the U.S. specifically. We'll tell you what he's asking for after the break.

SCIUTTO: Plus, David Gilmore of Pink Floyd will join us live. Hear how what's happening in Ukraine inspired a legendary rock band to record new music for the first time in 28 years. You have some of that song right there.

And in Russia, a schoolteacher who was secretly recorded making anti- war comments could now face ten years in prison.

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[10:15:00]

GOLODRYGA: President Zelenskyy says Ukraine is ready for the battle in Eastern Ukraine but he's still emphasizing that his country's desperate need for support continues. Zelenskyy told the South Korea parliament today that Ukraine needs planes, tanks and defense systems and he told 60 Minutes over the weekend everything depends on how quickly Ukraine gets more weapons from the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENSKYY: It all depends on how fast we'll be helped by the United States. To be honest, whether we will be able to survive depends on this. I have 100 percent confidence in our people and in our armed forces, but, unfortunately, I don't have the confidence that we will be receiving everything we need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Joining me now is Ukrainian journalist Iullia Mendel. She is also the former spokesperson for President Zelenskyy. Iullia, great to see you.

Listen, I was really paying close attention to President Zelenskyy's interview there with 60 Minutes, in his words, to Scott Pelley, where, on the one hand, he sounded very appreciative specifically towards the United States, for all of the aid, some nearly $2 billion worth of aid and weaponry since this war began, but it also sounded like he is frustrated that he's not getting enough and he's frustrated specifically with this administration.

[10:20:21]

Is that true? Is that what you're sensing?

IULLIA MENDEL, UKRAINIAN JOURNALIST: Well, thank you for having me. This is absolutely correct thing to put there. First, while we understand, we, Ukraine, understand that if the whole civilized world would not be united around Ukraine in this terrible time and if the United States were not supporting, it would be close to impossible to have this type of victory, which we have today, and to fight Russians back.

On the other hand, we understand that there is no time for bureaucracy and we understand that bureaucracy takes a lot of time and there is, of course, some military hesitance among some western leaders. And Ukraine just doesn't have time because time means Ukrainian lives. And it's very difficult for such type of a personality, as who Volodymyr Zelenskyy is, who actually is eager to suffer, to risk his life to show the world what is Ukraine and to show to the world the bravery of Ukrainian people, to explain to him from the west that we need some time to make some work or to rethink or to consider.

That's why he, of course, focuses on the (INAUDIBLE) and it's time, weapons tend to run out. And this is exactly what's happening now in Mariupol. Mariupol, defenders in Ukraine told today, there is a message from them that their weapons are running out. And they are alone there. And there is definitely a problem with the logistics. And we understand that this is the fight that is really very substantial to stand for these days (ph).

So, President Zelenskyy asks for more weapons very fast. And he asks to put more sanctions, tough sanctions on Russia so that Russia doesn't get money to finance its military terror in Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: Well, you mentioned bureaucracy. It sounds like there's a lot of bureaucracy surrounding additional sanctions and the sanctions specifically that President Zelenskyy is talking about, and that is oil and gas exports to Europe. But in terms of what the U.S. can do, is the focus shifting now to new, modern NATO weaponry? And I just keep hearing President Zelenskyy referring to planes. All these weeks later, he's still getting support from western leaders but not the planes.

MENDEL: That's a very interesting issue. There was some very interesting communication, type of communication, when the head of state department announced that there could be planes but dating for days, the head of Pentagon announced that this is not a time for getting planes. Also we've heard from some western countries, Poland, that they were eager to provide these more aircraft to Ukraine and we still do not have it.

So, the issue is, of course, about the military hesitancy of the west. But it's also about the major thing (ph) of ideology battles. Russia today announced again that the major thing about this operation, the major purpose was actually to undermine the American leadership in the world. So, they're trying to use Ukraine and to make all these terror in Ukraine to undermine the western values and the western world order around the world.

And here, we need to stand against this absolutely brutal and bloody army, one of the strongest in the world. And, of course, we are waiting for the most that we can get. And the United States is the leader around the world. We know we rely on the United States as a partner. So, we expect that we can get what we ask as fast as possible to defend and to keep fighting for freedom, for independence, for democratic values.

GOLODRYGA: Iullia, I have heard people say time and time again that the best Ukraine has is President Zelenskyy himself. And he's really invigorated Europe as a whole, the Ukrainian people there, from day one, by staying in Kyiv when offered a chance to leave the country.

I'm just curious, as somebody who knows him better than most, given how surprised so much of the west has been by his bravery, by his wartime leadership, being compared to Winston Churchill, are you surprised by this side of the president?

MENDEL: Volodymyr Zelenskyy himself was very modest to say that the biggest soldier, the biggest warrior is the Ukrainian people here. However, I am not surprised by the bravery that he has shown.

[10:25:00]

I know he has deep values. And one of the values is that he never gives up, and the second biggest value that he shows, that politics needs to serve people. And he was always sending the Ukrainian soldiers in Donbas region to show the solidarity with them when their lives were under risk.

So, when the United States made this really kind gesture to advocate President Zelenskyy from Kyiv when there was this huge risk of Russians entering the capital of Ukraine, I knew personally he would never leave. That's why he's standing here with his people and this is what matters for us. Ukraine managed to show its character thanks to Volodymyr Zelenskyy, to the whole world.

GOLODRYGA: Yet another error on Putin's part, right, Zelenskyy's popularity numbers were pretty low leading up to this war and now they're above 90 percent. Iullia Mendel, great to see you, thank you so much.

MENDEL: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: The courage of the Ukrainian across the board.

Still ahead, Congresswoman Liz Cheney says the January 6th committee has the evidence to send a criminal referral to the Justice Department for former President Trump, but is the whole panel behind it?

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