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Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) Says, It's Absolutely Clear Trump, Others Knew Actions on January 6 Were Unlawful; Pink Floyd Releases First New Song in Decades for Ukraine; Russian Teacher Faces Charges Over Anti-War Remarks in Class. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 11, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: A key member of the House committee investigating the January 6th Capitol attack say it's absolutely clear that former President Trump and people around him knew that their actions were unlawful. Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney told CNN that what committee members have seen is a massive, well-organized and well-planned effort to try to overturn the 2020 election.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Remember, she was in the House GOP leader before she was kicked out. She says that the panel has not yet decided whether to make criminal referrals to the Justice Department. She says she's pushing back on reports the committee members are somehow divided over that issue.

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REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I wouldn't characterize there as being a dispute on the committee. I think that it is the single most collaborative committee on which I've ever served. I'm very proud of the bipartisan way in which we're operating. And I'm confident that we will work to come to agreement on all of the issues that we're facing. So, I wouldn't say that it's accurate right now to that say there's a dispute on this issue.

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SCIUTTO: Joining us now, CNN's Whitney Wild. So, Whitney, if there is no divide, as Liz Cheney, certainly a powerful member of that committee, says, why no criminal referrals yet or is there something to this division?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, at this point, the first thing is that they're not done with the investigation. We know that they're still conducting interviews and that it's going to be some time before we see this final report in the hearings that they've spoken a lot about.

So, the first factor could very well be, they're just not done, but there are a lot of other factors that are likely going to weigh on this decision. And the first is that DOJ does not need a criminal referral from the committee to move forward with an investigation. A referral from the committee is really just an educated suggestion, it's just symbolic.

The second is that they have always maintained that the goal here is to pursue possible legislative change. So, more so than, say, waiting for a single witness or a single piece of evidence, the decision really might hang on theories. Some members might want to be able to say when this is all over that the committee did everything it could to help DOJ prosecute what they believe is a crime, that they did everything they could to take this over the finish line.

There are others who might theorize that a referral is just beyond their authoritative scope. It puts way too much political pressure on the DOJ. And, finally, they might believe that the reality is DOJ already has enough information to move forward.

I would like to point to a very important statement made by a judge recently in California, a judge who had already said it's more likely than not that the former president and others committed a crime when they sought to overturn the election.

So, these are just a few of the issues, the reality, though, is that referral or not, both of these outcomes are going to create pretty significant political blowback, and at this point, we just don't know which theory is going to prevail.

SCIUTTO: Right. And then you have midterm elections, right, and a change of potential majority in the House. Whitney Wild, thank you so much.

Well, CNN has now learned that White House officials are increasingly concerned over an expected surge of migrants at the U.S./Mexico border next month. They're bracing for the political fallout from the decision to end a Trump-era border policy, which had been followed as well under the Biden administration known as Title 42. That allows authorities to turn away migrants at the border because of the pandemic.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And let's get to CNN's Priscilla Alvarez in Washington, where there are growing bipartisan calls for the Biden administration to reverse course, bipartisan being the keyword there. What is the latest?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: And White House officials too are growing anxious about these restrictions ending next month.

Now, as you mentioned, these restrictions had allowed authorities to turn migrants away at the border. And last month, the CDC determined that this authority was no longer necessary and would end on May 23rd.

Now, that combined with the pent up demand and deteriorating conditions in Latin America may contribute to record numbers on the U.S./Mexico border. And that is cause for concern at the White House where one source told me people are, quote, worried about where this is going and weathering the storm.

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And we've already seen that in Washington with fallout from both the Democrats and Republicans. In fact, Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar said in a statement, quote, we must have a process in place to treat migrants humanely while following the law. We must get border agents back into the field. Currently, that plan does not yet exist. Until then, we must keep Title 42 to protect our border communities.

Now, this is something that we're hearing, again, both from Democrats and Republicans who say now is not the time to let these restrictions lift and they want to see a comprehensive plan. The White House and Department of Homeland Security, in the meantime, saying that they are putting those preparations in place ranging from increasing capacity to process migrants as well as surging personnel to the U.S./Mexico border. But as a source told us, there is a high level of apprehension about what the next few weeks may bring. Bianna and Jim?

SCIUTTO: I'm sure the smugglers are already selling on that very headline. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks very much.

All right, music fans, just ahead, we speak with David Gilmour of Pink Floyd, why now was the moment for new music for the band after 28 years. Hey, Hey, Raise Up topping the charts, it's all to help Ukraine.

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SCIUTTO: It was that Kyiv Square performance by the Ukrainian singer, Andriy Khlyvnyuk, that inspired the legendary rock band, Pink Floyd, to write the group's first music in 28 years. Their song, Hey, Hey, Rise Up, is number two right now on iTunes downloads, has reached number one on iTunes in 29 countries, with all proceeds going directly to Ukrainian humanitarian relief.

Joining me now, a rock legend, David Gilmour of Pink Floyd. Mr. Gilmour, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

DAVID GILMOUR, PINK FLOYD: Thank you for having me on.

SCIUTTO: So, you have personal ties to this. Your daughter-in-law is Ukrainian, your grandchildren. And you said your daughter-in-law, it was her who sent you the clip of Khlyvnyuk singing that song in the Kyiv Square. What was your initial reaction? What moved you in that moment?

GILMOUR: It's just a very, very striking performance. And, of course, one takes advantage of the fact that it's acapella and there's no other instruments backing it. So, you can easily take it to a studio and do something with it.

I was already very frustrated by my own inability to do anything much about this awful thing that's going on over there in Ukraine and this seemed like a great thing to arrive at my feet that I could then turn it into something, which was actively, I hope, do some positive good, help boost the morale of the people in Ukraine and the forces who are fighting of this Russian attack.

SCIUTTO: Yes. The title fits with the Ukrainian fight now, doesn't it, Hey, Hey, Rise Up, which is exactly what the country is doing.

You've made it clear that while this is personal for you, family ties to Ukraine, that it's the cause, really, the mission and your reaction to seeing the images of human suffering there.

GILMOUR: Yes, that's right. I mean, it is appalling, what is going on, who a world superpower in this day and age, in 2022, can attack an independent country. This is the sort of thing that diplomacy is supposed to deal. When you talk, you meet. You don't just send all these troops. It's beyond the imagining of most people, I think.

SCIUTTO: There is a history of songs having particular power at particular times. If you think back, frankly, in Soviet times, the Winds of Change, that song, how that inspired many people behind the iron curtain or feed the world, right, We Are the World back in the Ethiopian famine. Do you believe songs like this one can have power beyond the music?

GILMOUR: Well, one doesn't want to get too up there in all this -- saying about how much a song can do, but these people are fighting are real people. They're young people.

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Pink Floyd is fairly popular out in U.K. and Russia. And putting our marker down and saying, this is what we believe in will show to both sides that this dispute, this war, where our feelings are and what -- how wrong you think the whole thing is.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I would be remiss and there would be music fans who punished me if I didn't ask this question, but how did you manage to write and perform such a powerful song, a great song and one that has risen to the top of the charts in just a matter of days? And why did you choose to do so after so many years out of the studio?

GILMOUR: This -- I'm a member of this band, Pink Floyd. We have a big market, a big throw. And after hearing the song and beginning to put it up in my studio on a system and try to work out what to do with it, at the same time, think about where I was going to go, and I thought the best thing we could do and for me to call Nick up to say, hey, Nick, will you take part in this with me and can we get into a studio, join me and my band and record it and video it and try and do our bit for what the world and Ukraine so desperately need right at this moment. SCIUTTO: Now, Andriy, the singer featured in this movement, he's doing his part on the ground there. We see him there when he was performing first in his uniform because he's joined the fight himself. I wonder, do you envision, hopefully, in peaceful times, more peaceful times down the road, a live performance between Pink Floyd with Andriy?

GILMOUR: I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Yes, I mean, it would be great if we can make something like that work. And he is very keen on the idea. I have spoken to him several times in the last three weeks.

SCIUTTO: It's quite amusing.

GILMOUR: One of the times I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago, he was actually in a hospital bed having been struck by a piece of mortar shrapnel, quite small. But he was there with a big black eye and a bandage all over his face.

So, the reality of what he's living through and what millions of other people are living through there is just beyond what most of us can really understand or believe can happen in the world today.

SCIUTTO: Yes. We saw, we showed them on the air with the stitches on his face from that shrapnel. It does show everyone's at risk.

Well, David Gilmour. I know watching this, I'm grateful for the help you're doing. I'm sure a lot of folks watching at home are grateful as well. We appreciate you joining this morning.

GILMOUR: Thank you very much. It's the least any of us can do.

SCIUTTO: I hear you.

Well, a reminder, all of you, the proceeds from Pink Floyd's Hey, Hey, Rise Up, all of it goes to humanitarian relief in Ukraine, and God knows they need it.

GOLODRYGA: That was really fascinating and so poignant where he said this is directed at audiences in Ukraine and Russia. They're popular in both countries.

SCIUTTO: As he said, they're popular, exactly, there, and they hear this. They listen.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the power of music.

Well, a teacher in Russia could spend years in prison after making anti-war comments about the invasion of Ukraine. Just wait until you hear who turned her in to authorities.

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SCIUTTO: A teacher in Western Russia facing serious charges this morning after students recorded her making critical comments about the war in the classroom.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. It's just the latest example of the lengths Russia was willing to go to crackdown on any sort of internal opposition to its aggression against Ukraine.

Here's CNN's Matthew Chance with more details.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim and Bianna. This incident has echoes of the atmosphere of repression in the Soviet Union. A schoolteacher in Western Russia has been charged with spreading false information after being reported to the authorities by her own students.

Irina Gen, who teaches English in the Russian city of Penza, was asked by her class why Russia has been banned from competing in European Athletics Championships, and she went on a tear saying, if Russia doesn't behave in a civilized manner, this will go on forever. She said the Russian military had begun to bomb Western Ukraine and attack the city of Mariupol, all true, of course, and that they wanted to go to Kyiv to overthrow the Ukrainian government of President Zelenskyy.

We have a totalitarian regime, she added, we're a pariah state, like North Korea. Well, I mean, honest, you might say, straight to the point, perhaps. The problem is the remarks, which contradict the official narrative and what's happening in Ukraine and are critical of the Russian authorities, were recorded and that police were brought in to investigation. This is the middle of March, remember.

Days later, the teacher resigned from her post, and just today, her lawyer is confirmed to CNN that she faces charges under new restrictive laws aimed at silencing dissent in Russia. She's now facing up to ten years in jail if she's found guilty.

We've asked the Kremlin about this. They say they're not aware of this particular case.

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But it is an illustration of the atmosphere in Russia right now as it struggles to control the narrative over Ukraine and of just how hazardous it is to speak there out of line.

SCIUTTO: Matthew chance, thanks so much. Students reporting on their teachers, it echoes, again, of World War II.

GOLODRYGA: You know what stands out there, is that she had access to information, may be harder to get to. But it shows that Russians, if they truly want to get down to the bottom of this war, still have ways and means to get that.

SCIUTTO: They pay a high price for it.

Thanks so much to all of you for joining us today, a busy news day. I'm Jim Sciutto.

GOLODRYGA: I'm Bianna Golodryga. At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after this break.

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