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Pentagon Holds Press Briefing; New General in Command of Russian Forces in Ukraine. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 11, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: But the judge in the Georgia case suggested at a Friday hearing he's inclined to let it go forward.

Thanks for joining INSIDE POLITICS today. Appreciate your time. We will see you tomorrow.

Dana Bash picks up our coverage right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington. Ana Cabrera is off today.

The blood on Russia's hands is mounting as Ukraine braces for another crucial phase of the war. President Zelenskyy now says he believes that tens of thousands have died in Mariupol, tens of thousands in just one city. New drone footage shows the theater where hundreds were killed ,many of them women and children, who were trying to find shelter from the bombing.

And the death toll is also climbing after Friday's strike on this evacuee-packed train station, at least 57 innocent civilians killed while trying to flee.

The fear now, more death, more devastation, as diplomacy doesn't appear to be going anywhere and Russia pushes east. New satellite images capturing this eight-mile Russian convoy just outside of Kharkiv, as CNN learns a new top general known as the Butcher of Syria will now be leading Putin's troops.

Right now we're monitoring a Pentagon briefing that's set to begin at any moment.

But, first, let's get right to Ukraine. CNN's Phil Black is in Lviv. And Nic Robertson is also standing by in Brussels with new details from apparently a very tense meeting between Austria's chancellor and Vladimir Putin.

But, Phil, let's first get to you. What's the latest on the ground there?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, today, a senior adviser to the Ukrainian government said that, from Ukraine's point of view, Russia's new operations in the east have already begun, because they are already seeing widespread escalation in shelling and bombardment across the three key regions in the east, Kharkiv, Luhansk and Donetsk.

They are also seeing a major push to reinforce Russia's existing positions there with new troops and hardware continuously arriving. You mentioned the satellite images which show that eight-mile convoy heading south towards a key battlefront. And so what they are waiting for now is a final decisive push by those Russian forces to try and break through Ukraine's defensive positions in order to expand Russia's control over the whole Donbass region, which President Putin has stated is his goal.

You mentioned that they have appointed an overall commander in the field for the first time, a general with a reputation for brutal effectiveness. And the suspicion is that he is working to a tight deadline, that Vladimir Putin wants results, tangible results, a clear win in time for Russia's May 9 Victory Day celebrations.

It's a public holiday that normally traditionally celebrates the defeat of Nazi Germany, but, in recent years, has taken on a much more wider significant, importance in celebrating Russia's military glory and military might in a much more general sense, Dana.

BASH: Well, thank you so much. It's hard to imagine more brutality than what we have seen. But I suppose it is possible.

There was a face-to-face meeting between Austria's chancellor and Russian President Vladimir Putin today in Moscow.

So, Nic, I want to go to you.

What are you learning about that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the Austrian chancellor's office is saying it was not a friendly visit, that it was direct, it was open, and it was tough.

We knew from the Austrian chancellor -- from the Austrian foreign minister, rather, than when the chancellor went in, he was going to look Putin in the eye, go eye to eye with him, tell him, tell Putin that he'd lost the moral war, that he was responsible for war crimes.

And we know that, just over the weekend, the Austrian chancellor was in the Ukraine, in Kyiv, in Bucha, saw himself, witness to what he has described as war crimes. He's said that people should be held accountable. And that was his message with Vladimir Putin.

He told Vladimir Putin that he had looked the unimaginable suffering of the people of Ukraine in the eye, and that was the responsibility of war -- or Russia's war of aggression. That's what he told President Putin directly to his face. He also told Putin that the European Union and international sanctions on Russia would continue, that they would continue to tighten, as long as people are being killed in Ukraine.

It doesn't appear -- and I think perhaps no surprise -- to have shifted the dial in Putin's thinking. We know that the Kremlin didn't publicize this meeting, as it would do normally with an international leader, didn't put out video before the meeting, didn't show video of the meeting.

At least, that was their plan, which really shows you the Kremlin wants to control the message in its entirety. The last thing the Kremlin wanted was for the Russian people to understand that the -- that the Austrian chancellor had gone there essentially to dress down President Putin and tell him he was responsible for what the chancellor has already called war crimes.

[13:05:21]

Very telling, indeed. Phil Black and Nic Robertson, thank you so much to both of you.

So, how exactly does a top general in Russia get the nickname Butcher of Syria?

CNN's Tom Foreman is here with some of the grim insight -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that really is quite a name to be attached to you. How does that happen? How do you get that? How do you get the support of Vladimir Putin to lead all of his forces in what is now a very fraught situation for the Russian military in Ukraine?

You do it, by all accounts, by being, as this man is reported to be, absolutely ruthless in his actions in warfare. Take a look at his biography. It'll give you some idea.

Yes, now he's appointed to direct the war in Ukraine. He was already commander of Russia's southern military district. Look at this part. He was the first commander of Russia's military operations in Syria. And during his command there, Russian aircraft laid siege to Aleppo. This doesn't sound like a whole lot, but, remember, this involves dropping barrel bombs, exploding in huge civilian areas.

This meant uncontained attacks on men, women and children and efforts to basically destroy towns in Syria to support the Syrian government, which the Russian government was behind, very much like what we're seeing now in Mariupol.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Tom -- Tom, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. We're going to have to get back to you. We're going to go to John Kirby at the Pentagon briefing.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

QUESTION: ... air defenses in recent days.

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Yes.

So, again, with the caveat that we don't have perfect visibility into everything that the Russians are doing, we have seen some early indications that they continue to flow the forces that they had in the north of Ukraine around Kyiv, particularly, in Chernihiv, moving them north into Belarus, and then in.

And we're starting to see early indications of movement eastward now back into Russia. We still believe that the goal here for them -- and so they have none of those battalion tactical groups that were arrayed in the north are now in Ukraine. Our view -- our view, our assessment is that they're -- they have all left. And they're beginning this effort to move them further to the east.

We think, we think that they're going to use places like Belgorod and Valuyki, to the north of the border with Ukraine, as refit stations, as way stations for them to resupply.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) already (OFF-MIKE)

KIRBY: We have seen -- we have seen some early indications, Bob, that they are, in fact, the Russians are, in fact, trying to resupply and reinforce their efforts in the Donbass.

I think you guys have all seen imagery. I have seen it in some of your outlets of yet another convoy of vehicles that are heading south towards that town of Izyum. We believe these are the early stages of a reinforcement effort by the Russians in the Donbass.

It's not clear to us how many vehicles are in this convoy, what exactly they're bringing. It does seem to be a mix of personnel- carrying vehicles, as well as armored vehicles, and maybe some artillery, maybe some enabling capabilities. Not exactly clear.

But this does seem to be an early effort by them to reinforce their efforts in the Donbass.

QUESTION: And on the air defense side of things?

KIRBY: Well, I mean, again, without getting into Russian targeting, because we don't have perfect visibility on that, we have seen the Russians hit airfields in the last couple of weeks, including one near Dnipro just over the last day or so. What exactly they are targeting at those fields is not perfectly clear to us.

But we -- I would just say this about Ukrainian air defense. They still have a lot of their air defense capability available to them. They, as you know, have been asking for more. And so we're working with allies and partners to help get long-range air defense systems into Ukraine. And we're -- the secretary is working this personally, quite frankly,

working with allies and partners to see what they can do. We want to try to get them long-range air defense systems we know they know how to use and can put into employment fairly quickly.

The Ukrainians, again, without getting into their order of battle, they clearly value their short- and long-range air defense, for good reason. And they are doing a very effective job of using it and marshaling those resources and doing the best they can to protect them, obviously.

Idrees.

QUESTION: Two quick questions.

Earlier today, President Zelenskyy talked about what he said was the death toll in Mariupol. He said tens of thousands. I know you don't know go into numbers, but does that scale sound plausible?

[13:10:10]

KIRBY: It could be, Idrees. We don't know.

And I don't think anybody is really going to know until Ukrainian authorities are able to get in there and look and see. It's still being fought over. So it's still contested. It's still contested territory.

But if you just look at the imagery and you see how much the Russians have pounded Mariupol from the air, it's inconceivable to imagine that there aren't going to be civilian casualties, and that it could be a significant number. But I think we just need to not be jumping to conclusions here while the city is still being fought over.

QUESTION: And, secondly, Jake Sullivan over the weekend talked about the new Russian general to sort of lead the war effort.

Is that in any way, a sign that President Putin has accepted that it's not going well, and he sort of sort of needs to readjust in some way, shape or form?

KIRBY: I don't think Mr. Putin needs many signs that it hasn't been going well for him in Ukraine.

I mean, here we are, day 46, and, again he failed to achieve so many of his geographic and strategic objectives inside Ukraine. So, they're repositioning. They're refocusing on the Donbass. I will let them speak to their personnel announcements. But it wouldn't surprise anybody that they're trying to organize themselves better for a now more geographically confined and more specific set of target objectives, now in the Donbass, specifically, and in the south.

What I would just hasten to offer is that the Ukrainians have been for eight years and still are fighting over that. That's still part of Ukraine. And they show no signs of being willing to give that territory up, nor should they. And so we will -- we will have to see how this plays out.

But whatever the Russian plans are, whatever their goals for this new commander are, they're still going to have to reckon with a very stiff, very effective, very capable, and, quite frankly -- and I have used this word before -- but very nimble Ukrainian defense.

Let me go to the phones just a little bit. And we will just keep working around.

Barbara, I think you're online today?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hi.

I do want to follow up on the general, if I may. Is there -- he obviously is someone known to the U.S. military from his operations in Syria and in the destruction of Aleppo. What can you tell people, if anything at all, about his track record in having a disregard for civilian casualties?

And then I wanted to follow up -- follow up on the next round of security assistance, if I may.

KIRBY: Look, I'm not -- I'm not going to detail his biographic details or his -- or pretend to think that we know perfectly how this particular general intends to lead.

I would say this. He and other senior Russian leaders have shown in the past -- and you mentioned Syria as one example -- have shown clearly in the past their disregard for avoiding civilian harm, their utter disregard in many ways for the laws of war, the law of armed conflict, and the brutality with which they conduct and prosecute their operations.

There's a track record here before Ukraine of Russian brutality. And you have seen it on display every single day of the last 46 days, the brutality that the Russians are capable of. We're seeing it today. As you and I are talking here, you can see it today.

So I think, sadly, we can all expect that that -- those same brutal tactics, that same disregard for civilian life and civilian infrastructure will probably continue, as they now focus in a more geographically confined area in the Donbass.

You heard the chairman talk about this at testimony last week, that it was his assessment -- and we believe he's right -- that this could augur in for a more protracted and a very bloody next phase here of this conflict.

And I don't know and wouldn't pretend to say that we know for certain that this new general is going to be the author of some new additional and more bloody tactics. But we can certainly say, by what we have seen in the past, that we are -- we're probably turning another page in the same book of Russian brutality.

[13:15:23] And, again, I will say it. I know you get tired of me saying it, but I will say it again. This war could end today. Mr. Putin could do the right thing now. He could sit down in good faith with President Zelenskyy immediately and this war could end.

He had diplomatic options on the table. He chose to ignore them. And here we are day 46. He has not achieved the strategic objectives that he wanted to achieve. This is the perfect opportunity for him to negotiate in good faith with President Zelenskyy and end the war.

Courtney.

STARR: Security assistance, if I may.

As you shift into the south and the east -- as Ukraine shifts into the south and the east in a newer, heavy round of combat, and you look at security assistance, can you -- can -- how do you -- what's your best thought, the U.S.' best thoughts about how to get artillery, armor, long-range air defense, all the things that you have said they need for that arena to them, when they do not have U.S. versions in their current inventory, and they need things quickly that they can take advantage of and use?

Can you help people understand the next round of security assistance?

KIRBY: Well, we are working very, very hard every single day to continue to get security assistance to the Ukrainians.

I mean, eight to 10 flights a day are coming into the region, not just from the United States, but from other nations as well. And that stuff isn't sitting around, Barbara. It gets to these transshipment sites. They're put onto trucks and they're moved into Ukraine very, very quickly.

In some cases, stuff coming from the United States takes no more than four to six days from the time the president authorizes drawdown authority to it gets into the hands of the Ukrainians. That's an incredible rate of speed. And we aren't slowing down.

Regardless of the Russian refocus on the Donbass, we're not slowing down. That stuff continues to move. It's going to continue to move. We said as much as we can as fast as we can. And we mean it. And the reprioritization of the Russians on the east hasn't had an effect on our ability to help coordinate the delivery of massive amounts of security assistance from the United States and other nations into Ukraine.

That flow still continues.

Courtney.

BASH: You have been listening to John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, with a lot of very interesting information and insight.

I want to bring in Kimberly Dozier and our -- also retired General Wesley Clark, former NATO supreme allied commander. General Clerk, let me start with you.

One of the many things that Mr. Kirby said that was very interesting is that the secretary of defense is personally involved at this point in trying to get the Ukrainians some long-range air defense systems, which is the kind of thing that President Zelenskyy keeps asking for.

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that's really an important point.

And I'm so glad to see Secretary Austin doing this personally, because it does take high-level conversations, when you're dealing with something as sensitive as long-range air defense, for government leaders in East European countries to give it up and wait for the Patriot to come in.

So I know that we're working as fast as we can to get Patriot replacements in there. But anything that Secretary Austin can do to encourage the Slovakians to give it up now, before the Patriots arrive, that's great.

BASH: And, Kimberly Dozier, the whole notion of the Russians putting a general who's known as the Butcher of Syria into direct Russian troops there, our colleague, my colleague Barbara Starr asked about that.

And although Mr. Kirby didn't want to talk about the specifics of this general, he was very, very clear, very, in a very grim way, talking about the fact that we are in for potentially a very bloody next phase of this conflict. And it talked about the -- it's going to be another page in the book of Russian brutality.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Dana, sadly, more of the same in terms of this general's past track record and what we have seen and heard from Ukrainians on the ground across Ukraine, as Russian forces have withdrawn, revealing crimes that are now being assessed as war crimes by many in the international community.

[13:20:06]

What they are expecting to see in this eastern part of Ukraine is that the Russians are going to try to essentially lop off a quarter of Ukraine that contains those Donbass areas that have already been fought over, and also to surround and then kill thousands of Ukrainian soldiers who are garrisoned in that area from the earlier fight.

They're in trenches, but they're also in some buildings. And the problem is, this part of Ukraine is much flatter than the parts of Ukraine where this battle has already been fought successfully. That means it lends more sort of -- that Russian tanks have more of a way of smashing the Ukrainian forces, and the Ukrainians have less forests, et cetera, to hide behind to conduct the kind of attacks that have been so successful in the past.

That's why they need the armor. That's why they need more anti- aircraft weaponry. BASH: And, General Clark, as the former NATO supreme allied

commander, when you hear John Kirby talk about the fact that they are seeing the Russian troops pulling out and going to areas where they can resupply, and also the idea that there are eight to 10 flights, according to John Kirby a day, coming into the region with various supplies, what does that tell you?

CLARK: It's a competitive effort by both sides to strengthen their forces.

So we don't know how many trainloads of supplies are coming into the Russian side. We do know that a lot of their troops have been pretty messed up in the fight. But they have got a lot of troops that are also fresh for this fight.

And as I look at the terrain in Eastern Ukraine, and think about the Russian way of war, looked at that Maxar picture with all those trucks pulling artillery, you can just imagine the artillery lined up hub to hub and shelling and shelling and shelling. This is the way war is fought armored warfare. It was fought this way in World War II on the eastern front and in the desert by the British against the Germans.

So it's gnawing through, gnawing, taking that defense, pounding it, pounding it, pounding it, pounding it day after day, and finding a weak spot, and throwing your forces at it. And, yes, you're going to lose, but you keep throwing them.

And this Russian general, he knows that this is what he's got to do. He has been given the instructions, no doubt, to bring back victory. And he knows, for him, it's victory or complete disgrace, and maybe worse than that.

So he is going to be ruthless. They're going to obliterate the towns because they don't want a repeat of the fight that they had north of Kyiv, where the Ukrainians could be in the villages, use the anti-tank weapons and ambush the tanks. They want to move in open terrain.

And as -- as Kimberly was saying, this is the opening area -- open area in Ukraine. It's amenable to that kind of warfare. And it's a competitive race to get the Ukrainians the munitions, the artillery and the tanks they need to stand up against that Russian onslaught that's coming.

BASH: So urgent.

And, Kimberly, there is some there -- there are some things happening. I don't want to even call it movement. I started to call it that, but, clearly, it is not movement on the diplomatic front. The Austrian chancellor went to meet with President Putin in Moscow. But he said it was not a friendly visit.

He called on Putin to stop the atrocities in Bucha. Are you surprised that Putin agreed to this meeting?

DOZIER: Well, I think Putin probably was hoping for a less adversarial meeting, Putin's hope all along has been to use allies in Hungary and other parts of Europe to divide the European opposition against him.

And the worry has been, the longer this conflict goes on, that united opposition of E.U. countries to sanction Putin will continue. Now, there have been some countries like Hungary who haven't taken part. It's interesting that the Austrian leader, who took a lot of grief locally in his own country for making this trip, used it as a way to instead say, we are with this European criticism.

And so we will see if Putin says yes to any future visits from leaders like him.

BASH: And, General Clark, I was just in Poland last week, and I spoke with the Polish president, who was very down on the notion of having meetings with Vladimir Putin, and basically suggesting that this kind of outcome that apparently has happened with the Austrian chancellor, what happened, which is that it's effectively pointless.

[13:25:03]

What's your take?

CLARK: Well, I think, in this case, it probably served a good purpose, because, as long as the Austrian chancellor did lay it out the way that it's reported and took that lesson back, that further consolidates the European Union's position.

But I do agree with Poland that, look, Mr. Putin is not going to negotiate and give anything away. It's all going to depend on the outcome on the battlefield. These talks are just his way of trying to divide Europe and forestall reinforcement of the Ukrainians.

In this case, he's in such a hole. He's just sacked his top intelligence guy who was responsible for Ukraine. There's a big purge under way. He's looking for people to throw the blame to in this case. And he knows he's got to deliver. So he's not ready to negotiate, but he's always willing to try to manipulate European and American opinion by throwing out false leads at times, and also then by, contrarily, talking tough and making threats.

BASH: General Wesley Clark, Kimberly Dozier, I always learn so much from each of you. Thank you so much for your insight.

And Russia just learned a tough lesson when it tried to cover a massive debt payment in rubles, instead of U.S. dollars. Details on that ahead.

Plus, the price of gasoline is falling from its recent and painful peak. How much further could it go?

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