Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Multiple People Shot on NYC Subway; Five Shot in NYC Subway; Thirteen Injured in NYC Subway. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired April 12, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:33:29]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our breaking news here in New York. Police are responding to a shooting on the subway system in Brooklyn.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Jason Carroll joins us now live with the latest details.

Jason, tell us what you know.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And literally just getting some more information, Jim, as we speak.

So, the updated information that I have for you at this point is five people shot. The shooter apparently fled the scene. And remember we were talking about that -- that device there at that location. That is a possible smoke device. Apparently was detonated at that subway location.

Again, just it recap, this happened just a short while ago at a subway stop station there in Brooklyn, 36th Street and 4th Avenue. When units arrived, upon arrival, they found that multiple people had been shot. We have now confirmed that five people have been shot. When they arrived there, they also said that several undetonated devices were found at that same location. Few moments ago it was unclear specifically what those undetonated devices were. We are now being told that it was a smoke device that was detonated at the location.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I'm told now, Jason, just coming in from a police source that investigators are now looking to determine if it was a smoke grenade that was the explosive device identified. Again, investigators still confirming that, but that they are looking to determine if that was the explosive device described.

CARROLL: Right.

SCIUTTO: Jason Carroll, thanks so much.

Jonathan Wackrow also with us, formally with the -- sorry, Anthony Barksdale -- Anthony Barksdale, former police chief with us now.

[09:35:08]

So we're get some details, it's early, Chief Barksdale, but the idea of a shooting with the possibility, as I just mentioned there, of a smoke grenade being used prior -- I don't know if complex is the right word, but at least gives you a sense of a planned attack here.

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Absolutely. This is definitely a disturbing event. So you have a mass casualty shooting. And we also are seeing signs that this being planned with possible devices being planted. A huge concern for NYPD.

Mayor Adams has already made it known that he was going to fight crime, but is this just a shooting or is this an act of terrorism? I know it's early in the investigation and we got a long way to go here, but this is definitely a major issue for New York City.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Anthony, and as we're awaiting for images there from that subway scene, I do want to get you to respond to sort of the ticktock that we're getting a sense of, because it appears that it was the FDNY that initially responded to the call there of smoke coming from the subway system, only then to find that there had been multiple shooting victims. So, sequentially, what does that tell you about the possibility of how this attack unfolded?

BARKSDALE: I really -- we don't have enough now. But the first responders are going to go in no matter what. And we -- you know, we saw that at 9/11. They go in. That's what they do. They're sworn to do it. And when they get there, if there is a different type of crime scene that they're facing, they're going to call the NYPD. NYPD was probably on the way, if not already there, in some form or fashion. But now with, you know, with these devices being mentioned, this has to be a top concern for everyone in New York City.

GOLODRYGA: Right.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Jason Carroll, following this, I understand you have some new information.

CARROLL: Right. And that's about a possible suspect here. Police saying, according to a preliminary report, that a male suspect, possibly wearing a gas mask and an orange construction vest, fled the scene to some sort of unknown location.

We had also indicated earlier that five people were reported shot. We have now also been told, according to a source, that one of those -- of those victims is in critical condition after the incident. So that information coming into us now as well about the suspect and about those who were injured.

GOLODRYGA: Anthony, if I could --

SCIUTTO: Anthony -- sorry, go ahead.

GOLODRYGA: I was just going to have Anthony respond to what must be a pressing issue for law enforcement here in making sure that this was an isolated incident, and instead of an incident that we can see taking place throughout the city in other subway stops and stations.

BARKSDALE: That's an excellent point. Right now, New York City has to go all hands on deck. You have a crime scene that you have to work, but at the same time you now have a possible suspect, we don't know for sure, but that gas mask, part of the description, you have something to work with. The police have to pull video. We have a lot of things that have to be done. But now, with this happening in New York City, we know that other cities need to also go on alert until we know what just happened. So, this is -- back to your point, it's a concern for everyone right now.

SCIUTTO: One more, Chief Barksdale, and as we are discussing, these are the first still photographs we have from inside that 36th Street Brooklyn station, as you see there. And we're sorry to show you this so early in the morning, but you can see blood streaked on the floor there.

We do have, as the FDNY says, several people shot -- multiple people shot there. As Jason was just saying, one of them, it appears, critically injured. And as I reported just before then, police are looking into whether the shooter deployed a smoke grenade prior to the attack. And as Jason reported, may have been wearing a gas mask.

I was going to ask you, Chief Barksdale, you bring a gas mask, a grenade and a loaded weapon to a subway station, that speaks to prior planning, does it not?

BARKSDALE: Yes, it does. Absolutely. So, what I'm saying is, this may be bigger than a mass shooting.

[09:40:01]

If this is premeditated, if this is planned out, is this an act of terrorism, of domestic terrorism, that New York City is facing right now? We have to get engaged. Everyone has to get involved here. We need the federal agencies in. We need all the investigators in. The first-rate detectives in New York City working this case.

This is something where I hope even the White House is dialed in because we can't have an incident like this occur again as we have seen it happen before when the United States has seen -- has seen terrorism hit us.

GOLODRYGA: We also have with us Joseph Giacalone, a former NYPD sergeant.

Joseph, if you're with us, can you tell us what is going through law enforcement's mind right now as they are planning not only the manhunt for this suspect, but also ensuring that the rest of the city, the transit systems, other subways are safe and secure.

JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD SERGEANT: Yes. Thanks for having me.

I know exactly what they're doing right now. They are headed to every major hub right now, right? So they're going to be going to the bus depot, Times Square, you name it, the cops are going to be everywhere because you have to be concerned, like Mr. Barksdale just said, about a mass terror incident. And you can't take it for granted.

So, they have enough personnel to do this. They will cover all that and search for this perpetrator all at the same time.

But, right now, they need to figure out exactly what transpired here, pulling out video surveillance cameras along the route, how the person entered, how they exited, and if they took off any -- you know, the mask or anything else along the way, and just to see if they can identify him and try to apprehend him as quickly as possible because they need to speak to him immediately to find out if this is part of a bigger deal.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And to your point, one legacy post 9/11, as you know better than me, is a web of security cameras across New York City, including subway stations. You see them in Times Square, you see them elsewhere, to help track exactly this kind of thing.

Jason Carroll, our reporter in New York, I want to go back to him now because he has some new details.

Jason, what are you hearing?

CARROLL: Right, Jim, I wanted to update you on -- on the number of injuries. Unfortunately, we're now hearing that the number of those injured at that subway station in Brooklyn is now at 13. Before we were reporting five. But, as you know, as we get more information in, these numbers often change.

The number now at 13 people injured at that subway station. Again, we know of at least one person there, one victim, in critical condition we are told. So, the numbers there increasing.

We showed you some of those graphic images earlier of the subway platform, where you saw some of the blood there on the subway platform. Again, in terms of a possible suspect, that information still holding. Police saying that it is a male, and possibly wearing, again, a gas mask and an orange construction vest who fled the scene.

But as you can see there, at any one of these subway stops, at that hour, there are likely going to be a number of people there. So, NYPD, investigators who are down there, detectives, anyone heading down to that scene going to be looking at security cameras, going to be talking to anyone who was down there to try to find out in which direction this suspect was headed.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Jason, we've now been covering this for about 20, 25 minutes. Have we heard yet from the city mayor, Mayor Adams? I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that he is self-isolating after testing positive for Covid. Nonetheless, he has been working. Any statement out of his office yet? CARROLL: Still awaiting a statement from the mayor's office. But as

you know, Bianna and Jim, the mayor has been out front on a number of occasions, even before the Covid diagnosis, about crime in the city, about his pledge to do more, and, again, just recently announcing that he was going to be requiring officers to conduct more frequent and regular sweeps of the city's subway system in an effort to try to reassure riders that the subway system is safe.

Again, this after we have seen a number of incidents on New York City subway systems. A subway shooting on March 20th, a 29-year-old victim there. Another subway attack on March 2nd. Two people attacked there. Again, in Brooklyn.

And in terms of subway ridership (ph), we were just checking, MTA was saying that the overall ridership at this point is at about 60 percent compared to what it was before the pandemic. So, a lot of folks just even before this weren't feeling comfortable about riding the subways.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Just an update there as we saw. If you're just joining us, a shooting at a subway station in Brooklyn, New York.

[09:45:00]

At least five people shot says the fire department, 13 injured in total. I've been told that police are investigating whether a smoke grenade was used prior to the shooting or during the shooting. As Jason was saying there, also they believe that the shooter was wearing a gas mask at the time of the shooting.

We'll continue to bring you details and you can see the emergency response there, those live pictures from outside the station in New York.

Joseph Giacalone, former NYPD sergeant, a question for you. Given how New York is blanketed by security cameras now, in the subways, you have private and police cameras, city cameras in many street corners, would police have the ability to track this perpetrator from the subway pretty much wherever they go, or are there blind spots?

GIACALONE: Well, there are a few blind spots. But all of the feeds go through what's called a real time crime center at One Police Plaza. So they have access to all the NYPD cameras. It will be the private cameras that will provide the other spots that they can't see.

So, this is going to be a collection effort that we probably haven't seen in a very long time. And that they have the capability of doing it. I'm sure they're downloading videos as we speak and, you know, tracking this person's movements and see if they came by car, if they walked there, if they maybe even came out of an apartment building nearby.

But we see that there's a lot of planning in here and, you know, there's going to be parts of this investigation once it goes forward of social media posts. And, of course, you always have to consider about what's happening overseas too. So, the NYPD has, you know, the capabilities to be able to handle

this, of course. But like everything else, we need to make sure that it doesn't happen again in this short period of time and figure out exactly what is transpiring here.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Joseph, as you mentioned earlier, the NYPD is prepared and trained to respond to any threat. I'm just curious as to the training that goes into play as you look at these details coming out and the possibility that bombs, smoke bombs were used. And not only now the police responding to the shooting, but also responding to any sort of gas or bombs that have been placed there.

GIACALONE: Well, unfortunately, after 9/11, the department did a lot of training in regards to this and outfitted police officers with the masks and everything. Every other tool that you have in the counterterrorism intelligence divisions have been expanded greatly to be able to respond to these kinds of events. And, of course, we also have, you know, the ability to be able to put thousands of cops in a small area in a short period of time.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GIACALONE: So, I mean, that's also -- they're going to create a ring around this area so that this person doesn't escape. That's the idea behind this. But, unfortunately, with, you know, with the ride sharing and other subways, it's pretty easy to sneak through that.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, I've seen them deploy those quick reaction forces. I was able to cover them as they do. And it is amazing how quickly police can get to the scene of something. I'm talking within minutes, right? Maybe even a couple of minutes if they're close enough. And you can see some of that presence there now and just how broad that police presence is outside that Brooklyn police station.

We also have Anthony Barksdale on the line with us here.

Again, as the details come in, you have a number of steps that the -- that the attacker, as far as we know it took here, wearing a gas mask, police investigating whether he brought along a smoke grenade, wearing an orange construction vest perhaps to give the impression of being an official worker, and, of course, brought a loaded gun and has done a lot of damage here. That speaks to even more planning than we knew initially.

Anthony Barksdale, are you still there?

BARKSDALE: Absolutely. Yes, I am.

I -- yes, absolutely. This is, based on what we're hearing right now, this is planned. And even though we are in the initial stages, the NYPD can start doing a lot of work in solving this. Like you just said, they can form a perimeter to try to lock this down. But back to Joe's point, there different routes to escape, to get through a perimeter. So, we don't know who or what we're dealing with at this point. But as

Joe also stated, unfortunately, the NYPD knows what to do here. And I know that this is a difficult situation. But they're going to be methodical about this from beginning until the end. We really have to focus now on finding the suspect. We have to worry about the victims. And there's a lot of work to do, but they can do it.

[09:50:04]

I believe that they can pull it off based on their experience and their resources.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: And, no doubt, timing has to play a factor here as well if we are talking about an attack that may have been and likely was premeditated just given that this occurred during morning rush hour, the morning rush hour commute here in New York City where thousands of commuters take subways to and from work, dropping their kids off from school.

I want to get back to Jason Carroll. I believe you have some more information for us.

CARROLL: Well, I know, Bianna, you were asking about the mayor's office and just a few moments ago we heard from his press secretary who said the following, tweeted out, said New York City's mayor continues to be briefed on the situation while we gather more information. We ask New Yorkers to stay away from this area for their safety and so that first responders can help those in need and investigate.

Just wanted to just give you that very quick information about the status of the New York City's mayor's office.

SCIUTTO: And we also have a statement tweeted by Governor Kathy Hochul, New York governor, saying that she -- I have been briefed, I'm quoting here, on this developing situation in Brooklyn. First responders are on the scene. And we will work with the MTA and NYPD to provide updates as the investigation continues.

And, boy, as you look at that street there outside the station, a sea of vehicles, first responders, and those probably what you're seeing there, explosive sniffing dogs part of the investigation here because, of course, the first reports were of multiple, undetonated devices they were investigating. Our latest information is police looking to determine if those were smoke grenades, and as Jason was saying, the attacker apparently wearing a smoke mask, a gas mask, rather, in preparation for that.

Joseph Giacalone, as you look at this force response here, a lot of folks on this case, and they're going to be on this case quickly. Tell us what next steps they're going to be taking.

GIACALONE: Well, they're going to be coming in from outside partners, right? So, we're going to see the FBI, the ATF, and the New York state police, I'm sure that the governor's already released them down, because we had -- they had a trooper barrack not far away. So they're going to have to just cordon off the area. they're going to shut down highways and streets just to make sure that there aren't any other devices in the area. So they're going to go a few thousand feet from (INAUDIBLE). And I would recommend that everybody just stay away from this.

They're all -- you know, the idea of Sunset Park Station, you know, it just intrigues me a little bit, but -- in regards to, you know, is it -- is it a terrorism attack or is this just an act of, you know, a random violence? We don't know this yet, but, you know, it's -- it's not the biggest train hub that we have. So that might be a little bit of a sigh of relief so to speak for officials, you know, because in Manhattan there are, unfortunately, much bigger targets and we don't want to give anybody that idea or suggestion. But the idea behind this is now just to apprehend this person.

And then, as Anthony had said, you know, the detectives are going to take over. We're going to be pouring into a social media accounts and what have you because just want to see if there was any -- any headway in regards to if there was anything that could have been gleaned prior to this, statements that he made. It's going to be one of these types of investigations that are going to go on for quite a while.

Right now we just need to find him, apprehend him and then question him.

GOLODRYGA: I want to bring in Charles Ramsey at this point, former commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Office. And I do want to get you to weigh in on what you just heard from Sergeant Giacalone suggesting that he at least found it curious where this incident took place, that it wasn't in one of more high profile areas of the city, like Times Square, like Penn Station.

Your analysis as to how this went down and how authorities are now trying to piece this together.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I'm not familiar with the New York City subway system, but if this is a location that is not heavily traveled, that makes it a softer target.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAMSEY: So if you did have the intent of doing something and getting away with it, then that would make sense to do it there.

But I do want to say this, and that is that, like any investigation of this magnitude, that's very dynamic, a lot of the information you get early on turns out not to be that accurate. And so we need to be careful and kind of sift through things. Right now they're at the very, very early stages. They're securing that scene. If there is other devices there, they've got to render them safe. I'm sure they're checking other subway and transit stations throughout the city to find out whether or not they're safe or not.

So, there's a lot of stuff going on right now. And I heard it mentioned earlier that all the federal agencies are responding. NYPD, obviously, the largest department in the country, very well resourced. So, you've got a lot of people there that will figure all this out.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RAMSEY: But the early information, we have to kind of sift through it carefully.

[09:55:02]

We don't know what we have yet.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean the NYPD, the size of the force there and its special units, resources, vehicles, teams, to respond to incidents like this one.

Jason Carroll, been following the story for the last hour, what's your latest information?

CARROLL: And a bit of information from the NYPD, who is just putting out, Jim, that they are saying that, according to their investigation, no active explosive devices found at that scene at this time.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARROLL: So, there's that. Because, remember, initially, there were reports from the FDNY that there were several undetonated devices at that same location. But they also made it very clear that it wasn't exactly clear what those devices were. So, the NYPD, at the very least at this point, clearing that up and saying that there were no active explosive devices at this time, at that scene there -- down there.

And you can see a number of officials are down there on the scene. They're going to be looking for witnesses. Looking for witnesses to try to piece together where this happened down there at this subway stop. Did it happen there? Did it start someplace else, end there? A lot of these details we're going to be getting in the next few minutes, the next few hours as the situation continues to unfold.

GOLODRYGA: And to your point --

SCIUTTO: Yes, that's consistent with the idea that this, if there was something, it was a smoke grenade and not something more serious. That a relief.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and to your point, Joseph Giacalone, you know, it is quite stunning that they were able to clear the scene of other devices within just a matter of 20 minutes or so.

I want to go to Brynn Gingras, who is now on the scene there.

Brynn, give us a sense of what you're seeing.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, guys, listen, it's a chaotic scene here in Brooklyn. I can get out of the way so you can see how far the flashing lights stretch several blocks because that's believed, as you've been getting updates from Jason, that this stretches several blocks. And according to sources, the perpetrator is not in custody yet, so this is still very much an active investigation.

I can tell you, arriving to the scene with quick force is -- we have emergency vehicles, like ambulances. We have the ATF here. We have the FBI. JTTF, in addition to, of course, the NYPD. So a lot of law enforcement here has descended on this scene to try to get this investigation going, trying to figure out exactly what is happening here.

And I know Jason has been giving you all of those updates. But, yes, that recent good news from the NYPD, no active devices at the moment. But we have seen the bomb squad here with the bomb dogs going into the subway system and checking that out to give that all-clear.

But, again, everyone here at the scene has been telling me that this is still very much an active investigation, still trying to exactly piece together what happened, where it happened, how many people were injured. We're latest hearing 13 people brought to area hospitals. Is there more? And, of course, this big question is, who is this person that might be responsible?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GINGRAS: Is it just one person or many? And that's something that investigators are trying to learn right now.

SCIUTTO: Here's what we know at this point. At least five people shot at a station in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, New York, 36th Street and 4th Avenue. Thirteen injured in total. We don't know how many of them were shot, but at least five people shot. Police investigating the use of a smoke grenade in the midst of this attack. They say the attacker was wearing a gas mask, also an orange construction vest. And as Brynn was just saying there, the suspect still at large.

But you see in those pictures, live pictures from just outside the scene, the enormous, enormous response from the NYPD and the FDNY, Fire Department of New York, as well.

We still have Charles Ramsey on.

Charles, you've led police departments in two major cities. Tell us how cities react to kind of this and how seriously they take attacks such as this.

RAMSEY: Well, you take it very, very seriously. But one of the main things now is to kind of minimize the panic that, obviously, is going to take place as people start to hear about this. And I was pleased when Jason said the NYPD provided more information. That's got to be your main sources, NYPD, because they'll give you as much information out as they can without compromising the investigation, because there will be all kinds of rumors, all kinds of things floating around right now and you've got to really kind of keep the panic down because this has a ripple effect on the entire transit system in New York City, no question about that. I'm sure they're recovery video. They're going through video. They're

doing everything they need to do now to kind of get a handle on exactly what took place and who's responsible. But information is going to be, you know, coming out rather gradually, but they'll get it out as quick as they can to try to minimize people's concerns and anxiety. I mean, this is a major incident.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, NYPD, in the tweet that they issued, asked for any eyewitnesses to tweet them @NYPDtips.

[10:00:02]

And that gives you the sense of what a modern-day crime scene looks like.