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FDNY Says, 13 Injured, At Least Five Shot in NYC Subway Shooting. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 12, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:02]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: And that gives you the sense of what a modern day crime scenes looks like. It takes cooperation from witnesses on the ground there, those that have snapped photos, those that have been in the vicinity and happen to capture it with their cameras, and this, hopefully, Chief Ramsey, will help expedite, not only in capturing the perpetrator but building back and recreating the scene itself.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, that's what it's all about. You have to recreate. That's what a crime scene is. It's an historical event. Your job in processing is try to recreate the events that led up to that particular event taking place. So, it takes a lot in order to put those pieces of the puzzle together. And without the public's help, it's going to be even more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

And in today's age of information flow between Twitter and videos being sent and all that sort of thing, they'll be able to get a lot of information. But now, somebody has to sort through all of that stuff and make sense out of it.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Thanks so much, Charles Ramsey. We will continue to follow this breaking news story out of New York.

GOLODRYGA: And good morning, everybody. We are following breaking news this morning. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

The story out of New York, officials say at least 13 people are wounded, this following a shooting on a subway platform in Brooklyn, at least one person in critical condition now. Law enforcement officials say the suspect is a man who may have been wearing an orange construction vest, also may have had a gas mask. Officials investigating, I'm told, whether the suspect had and used a smoke grenade in the course of this attack.

GOLODRYGA (voice over): There you see images from the subway scene there, blood on the ground there in Brooklyn, New York.

CNN's Brynn Gingras is live on the scene. Give us the latest on where this investigation stands thus far.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Guys, I can tell you that I'm making multiple source calls, as are my colleagues, and there's just a lot of information that's getting sort of bounced around. So, that's a big thing right now, is officials here on the ground are trying to piece together everything that happened.

But let me get out of the way so you can see exactly what we're looking at here. This is a scene that stretches several New York city blocks. You can see those flashing lights. There are so many agencies here that have descended on the area. There are the FDNY, NYPD, JTTF, ATF, FBI. So, you can see the scale of this investigation.

What we do know from sources at this point, though, as Jim mentioned, five people shot, at least to the knowledge of law enforcement sources to us. One may be critical. We're hearing from the FDNY that at least 13 people may have been transported to area hospitals. Sorry, NYPD just tweeting out that there are no active devices in the subway system at this point, but exactly what happened down there is still trying to be figured out.

The latest information we're getting from sources that possibly this perpetrator was wearing a gas mask and an orange construction vest and that, at some point, a possible smoke bomb type of device had gone off. But, again, this is all preliminary. It is still getting worked out. We do know though, the perpetrator, at least the one person that they are somewhat identifying is still on the loose.

So, again, a very active chaotic scene here in Brooklyn, that stretches several blocks, as all of these agencies are working together to figure out the sequence of events of what happened and exactly, really, how many victims are there at this point. And we know that they would like people to call in with any information, any video to help with their efforts. Guys?

SCIUTTO: You get a lot of indicators from the few details we know at this point, but the fact the attacker used a smoke grenade perhaps to distract, cause fear in the midst of a shooting, wore a gas mask, prepared for the effects of the smoke grenade and orange construction vest to perhaps come across as some sort of official there.

Joseph Giacalone with us as well, now, former NYPD Sergeant. I'm curious as you look at the emerging details of this attack right now and, of course, the top line ones are the ones we have on our screen, at least five people shot, total of 13 injured at this point. Have you ever seen an attack like this, in your experience in the NYPD, with this combination of details as we know them at this point? JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD SERGEANT: Well, believe it or not, I mean, we rarely have incidents like this. So, the answer to your question is no. So, it's just something that's, unfortunately, they're trained for and hope that you never have to use.

So, there're so many different aspects and plans about this. For instance, hospitals in and around the area will be notified immediately just in case there are more victims than previously reported, so they'll be on high alert, and also every hospital throughout New York city will be on alert, including those across the river and in New Jersey.

[10:05:04]

These are all part of the plans that we've developed over the years.

One thing that the NYPD does is prepare for unfortunate situations like this. In the city this big, we know we're a target and it just doesn't have to be with terrorism aspect. I mean, you can have a mass shooting at any time but there's been very few of these kinds of things in New York city's history, believe it or not.

GOLODRYGA: Thank goodness for that. I want to bring back in Charles Ramsey.

Charles, for much of our viewership, their cities don't have subway systems, right? I'm just curious if you can give viewers more specific details and information on the level of work, the extra challenges facing the police department and investigators as they are trying to piece together, but also to investigate an active scene in the subway system.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, difficult because it is the subway system. Obviously, they've shut everything down. So, that particular site is secure. But you also want to check other sites as well.

I heard Joe mention how they train and how they plan. You do table-top exercises, worst case scenarios, if you've had an attack in multiple locations simultaneously, what's the surge capacity of the various hospitals in the area, how many people, patients can you take to a given place so they can be quickly treated, how do you triage at the scene if necessary. I mean, these all things are things that take place.

Now, outside of New York City, if I was still commissioner in Philadelphia, for an example, or Washington, D.C., I would be just as a precaution, checking transportation hubs, subway systems, elevated trains, things of that nature. If nothing else, not that there's a threat that goes beyond that, but you want to give your public a sense of safety and security. They want to see a few uniforms because when they get on these systems, having watched CNN seeing what's going on in New York, they're going to be a little concerned.

So, this goes beyond just New York in terms of just doing some things to kind of reassure the public that everything is okay. SCIUTTO (voice over): Some new information in we're learning that the ATF, that's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, investigates gun crimes in this country, is now on the scene of the Brooklyn shooting.

Anthony Barksdale, I've heard it consistently from New York police officers and we've heard this from public comments from the commissioner, from the mayor about the problem with guns and gun violence in New York, where those guns come from, how easy it is to get them into the city from other states. They speak of them coming from southern states often with more lax gun laws. As you watch what's been happening in New York with a shooting like this, but also a broader statistical rise in violent crime, what's the role of guns in that?

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice over): Guns play a significant role in what the United States is seeing in many cities, including New York. Yesterday, the president, in my opinion, gave a wonderful speech about focusing on guns and the damage that guns in the wrong hands do in the United States.

We also -- you mentioned the ATF. Looking to get -- the president is looking to appoint a new head of the ATF, which would be a significant event for such a vital agency in reducing violence in the United States.

So, it is a huge concern. We've talked about ghost guns. He talked about the supply routes that you just mentioned. So, we've got a lot of hope but we still have to make things happen. This isn't just going to go away overnight but an incident like this hopefully increases the urgency on both sides of the aisle to get something done about the amount of violence in our country.

GOLODRYGA (voice over): Yes. The president also addressed the threat of guns in the wrong hands against police officers in this country as well.

I want to get back to Brynn Gingras who's there on the scene near the subway station in Brooklyn. Brynn, have you been able to speak with any eyewitnesses or commuters or has it been completely blocked off by police officers?

GINGRAS: Yes, it's pretty blocked off and, of course, they shut down the subway system, Bianna, around here because that perpetrator is still on the loose. So, that's part of the investigation.

Certainly, like I said before, they are asking for any eye witnesses to come forward to help with that investigation.

But, yes, again, I'll get out of the way, we are several blocks away from the subway stops that was where the first call about this incident. It's been to be determined if this actually took place before this subway stopped several blocks down or what.

[10:10:06] So, like I said, several blocks open here. There are probably multiple, multiple witnesses but we are pretty far back from anyone who might have actually witnessed anything. Certainly, this is a major scene, so there's going to be a lot of witnesses, a lot of video. And that's something that investigators are going to be combing through, in addition too, of course, all the security cameras that are around here, since it is very much a business area as well.

SCIUTTO: Joseph Giacalone, former NYPD Sergeant, we see a lot of what's happening at the scene there. That's the response. Of course, you get the wounded, get the wounded to hospitals, you investigate, you try to track the gun and so on. But the focus, real focus now has to be on finding the suspect. So, can you tell you us, can you describe what we're not seeing right now that the NYPD is doing to try to track this person down?

GIACALONE: Sure. So, we have the temporary headquarters, vehicles will be pulling up in and around the areas. They're also going to be in constant contact with the real-time crime center as they're downloading the videos from the NYPD cameras and trying to get that information.

The issue comes down to that this person traveled by car, then the license plate readers will be in effect, or if they see him or her get out of the subway and jump into the ride share or a taxi or something like that, or even get on a bus, once again, license plate readers will play a role in that.

So, the video surveillance is always what I refer to as one of the forensic horsemen. It's a tool that helps investigators narrow these cases specifically down something like this where the danger to the community is very high. And they're going to want to capture him as quickly as possible.

So, these are a lot of different aspects of this. Plus, also, you've got to remember, the federal agencies are going to be involved in this, and that's why these temporary headquarters vehicles play a role. You can take them anywhere. They have cell phones, computers, printers, you name it. And they have the aspect of being able to control an investigation from just one street corner.

GOLODRYGA: Chief Ramsey, as we mentioned earlier, there are table-top exercises conducted by police departments across the country. I'm just curious, we're now about an hour into first reports of this shooting, as concerns initially, as they always do, lead to whether or not this is an isolated incident or whether there are more. One hour following the attack, thank goodness, we have not heard of any subsequent attacks, what does that tell you that, in fact, this is likely an isolated incident?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, the more time that passes by, the more likely it is an isolated incident. But you still have to keep your guard up because you just don't know. You have to have an open mind right now about everything, including who the suspect may be.

Now, I don't know how they came across this individual with a safety vest and so forth, that may have come right from video where they actually saw him do the shooting. It could be eyewitness that people saw something that looked unusual and that's what they're going on. But you have to have an open mind when you're at this stage of the investigation because you don't know what direction is going to go in. You don't want to lock too closely in any one particular thing.

But, obviously, they're going to have their guard up now to make sure there are no other incidents that occur anywhere else in the transit system or anywhere else within the city.

Sometimes part of table-top, for an example, would be if a next one occurs over here, is that the incident or is it a diversion, because there's a larger even that's going to take place somewhere else. I mean, all of these things are part of what you've discussed and what you've practiced as you go through table-tops.

And, by the way, you don't do these in isolation. You have ATF there. You have FBI there. You have Homeland Security. You have all the partners that participate in the table-top.

SCIUTTO: Charles Ramsey, we were discussing earlier the network of CCTV cameras now deployed in New York. A big legacy from 9/11, both to attempt to prevent attacks like this, right, see something before it happens, but also to track down perpetrators after things like this happen. I remember a few years ago when there was a bomb set off in Lower Manhattan. It was pretty quick, they were able to track that suspect down.

RAMSEY: Right.

SCIUTTO: How do those resources and the ones that Joseph Giacalone were just describing just then allow police departments today hopefully to track a shooter like this down quickly?

RAMSEY (voice over): They are invaluable. Let's assume that the description of the individual that was given earlier is the actual suspect. What they'll start doing is they'll start pulling video from the surrounding areas, the timestamp, you know, when this person is either going into this subway when they were leaving, what direction were they going. And they backtrack depending on the direction of flight and pull more video, more video until they're able to determine where this person came from to begin with.

So, yes, video is incredibly valuable.

[10:15:02]

New York City has an incredible network of cameras. And right now, I guarantee you, there are a lot of investigators doing that are doing just that right now to try and find out how we got there and then where that person went after the incident took place.

GOLODRYGA: Anthony Barksdale, there are a few cities in the world, obviously, in the country that are prepared for crime scenes like this than New York City. I'm just curious, across the country, are police stations, are first responders, are mayors now going back and looking at their table top exercises and making sure that they themselves are prepared for any sort of attack?

BARKSDALE (voice over): I would absolutely believe that they are. I can recall going to New York on 9/11 to get a package of intelligence that the NYPD would only give if I came in person. And from there, I know Baltimore started to model their anti-terrorism efforts more closely to what New York was doing, even back then.

So, all these years after 9/11, many agencies, just as Chief Ramsey is talking about, do these table-top exercises where we know when an incident occurs, who's in command, how does the flow of information work, what resources are you bringing to the table. And I know in numerous cities that these efforts are in place and have been in place for many years. But, unfortunately, we still don't see these efforts being tested.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And the NYPD has its own intelligence-gathering unit, almost like its own intel agency and control center. I've been to visit it. I mean, they've got an enormous law enforcement and counter- terror operation there.

Anthony Barksdale, Charles Ramsey, thanks so much. Please stand by. We continue to cover breaking news out of New York, as we've been reporting, a shooting in a Brooklyn subway station. To date, 13 wounded, at least five people shot there. The suspect who used both a firearm and it's believed a smoke grenade and the course of this attack still at large. We'll have updates as soon as we come back.

Stay with us.

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[10:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to CNN here. We continue to cover breaking news out of New York, a shooting at a Brooklyn subway station just a little over an hour ago. The first reports came out and the details we have to this point are at least five people shot, some 13 injured. We wait for any updates on those numbers. It appears a single gunman wearing a gas mask who also deployed a smoke grenade. Police are investigating during the course of this attack. They are now searching for the subject.

Brynn Gingras is on the scene there. Brynn, what are you hearing?

GINGRAS: Yes. One of the big things here, Jim, is the fact that the NYPD had said there are no active devices in the subway system. That's a big thing. That's a big question that people wanted to hear, what was the imminent danger at this moment. That's the good news there.

Let me get out of the way so you can see the breadth of this investigation, how big this crime scene is right now. It stretches for several city blocks here in New York City, in Brooklyn. And I could tell you, there are just loads of law enforcement here on the scene. We have the NYPD, of course, JTTF, ATF, FBI, the FDNY. We know that at least, and, again, those numbers are changing as law enforcement gets more information, but at least 13 people, according to the FDNY, have been sent to area hospitals. It's unclear the extent of those injuries.

But, again, this is an investigation that is incredibly fluid. We're still waiting to even get a sense of when we are going to get briefed on this. Remember, the mayor, typically, Mayor Eric Adams, will be coming to the scene starting a press conference with the police commissioner. He has COVID right now, so he's getting updates, we understand, while he is at home.

But, again, we're just waiting to get more information as we continue to just see more law enforcement come here to scene and try to piece together exactly what went down, try to talk to witnesses of this, try to get area surveillance cameras and amateur video camera footage to figure out exactly the sequence of events that went down here.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, critical to an investigation like this are accounts from eyewitnesses. And I believe we have an eyewitness with us on the phone right now, Konrad Aderer. Konrad, thank you so much for calling in.

Talk to us about what you saw and where you were at the time of this attack.

KONRAD ADERER, WITNESS TO NYC SUBWAY SHOOTING (voice over): Yes. Well, I was on the level above the platform just down from the street. I had just come down the first set of stairs on the street. And I just paused because I was texting my wife. And then there was the young man account to the station booth, which was some yards away from me, and he was bleeding from the legs. I guess he was injured. He was bleeding. His pants were partly down, so I guess he' injured on the upper leg.

And he was just alerting people to what happened. And so he was telling the station agent that people had been injured and they're bleeding.

[10:25:05]

And I wasn't sure I thought he had said shooting at the time but, otherwise, everything was pretty normal all around. No one -- there wasn't really anything unusual that I saw. It's just him and I was taking what he said and so I immediately got out of there.

SCIUTTO: Konrad, this is Jim Sciutto. The initial reports are that the suspect fled wearing a gas mask and orange vest, like a construction vest, and that suspect, we should note, still at large. Where you were on the level above, did you see anybody fleeing and did you see or did you see the police response, the police coming down?

ADERER (voice over): No. I definitely did not see someone with a gas mask running out of there. I didn't see anyone moving fast, really. I mean, basically, everyone was -- it's that second one something unusually first happens. People were just in the middle of coming up and coming down. There are still plenty of people just still walking towards the station, I mean, so, yes, I don't think I have any information that would help find the perpetrator. GOLODRYGA (voice over): Well, thank goodness you stopped and took time to text your wife instead of proceeding down to the subway platform. Were there a lot of people there? I mean, we're looking at the timing, and it would have been around rush hour commute to work.

ADERER (voice over): Yes. I mean, it was reasonable. Yes, it's not like the station up there, the platform, was probably a certain amount of people, but it wasn't, where I was. It wasn't a terribly crowded situation. There were just people making their way down into the platform from it.

Hello?

GOLODRYGA (voice over): Yes, Konrad, we're here. There were also reports of not only the suspect wearing a gas mask but the FDNY initially responding to reports of gas and smoke coming from the scene. Did you see any of that? Did you see any smoke around you?

ADERER (voice over): No, I didn't see anything like that. There was nothing -- I mean, I wasn't really looking -- you know, the stairway down to the platform was a little bit out of my view at that point because I was just on the first -- just on the bottom of the first flight of steps down into the station, into the -- I guess where the station booth is. And then you have another set of stairs to go down to the platform.

SCIUTTO: Konrad, thanks so much. We're glad you're safe. We appreciate you telling us what you witnessed there.

We have some news into CNN that we're learning that President Biden has now been briefed on the shooting, as has the attorney general, Merrick Garland, and also the DHS secretary, Mayorkas, given the nature of this, potential homeland security implications if this is seen to be a broader attack, given the planning evident at this stage.

We still have former NYPD Sergeant Giacalone with us here. Listen, it's an enormous response outside there. It's just remarkable to see the number of vehicles and those vehicles represent different teams. You have the quick reaction teams. You have the SWAT teams. As you were mentioning, you have command centers there now as they set up an operation to search for this suspect.

Describe the resources at hand here now as they enter the next stage of this.

GIACALONE: So, what they're going to do is see if they will be able to peel some of these units off too, because we don't want everybody down at the same location while this investigation is happening. So, they'll be looking to move teams all around Brooklyn.

And, for instance, there have been a lot of videos already showing up on Twitter, and it looks like it might have started inside a train car coming to the station. So, this is going to be another important aspect of it and that's why the police department is asking for those videos to try to piece this together, where this person got on. I had mentioned that earlier and this is something extremely important. But they have so many different units, and if they have to, they can always call in people who aren't working at the time right now and call them into work. So, that is something else that's at their disposal and that's part of having a huge police department like they have. I mean, we have a large city that responds to all kinds of things.

And remember, the cops are still out there answering 911 calls and everything else. So, this is a huge response, and as it should be, but they're going to look to start to lessen that out a bit and go across different avenues because we're going to have to start collecting video and evidence all across this entire line of subway cars.

GOLODRYGA: I want to bring back in Chief Ramsey. And, Chief Ramsey, in the last hour, you wisely noted that this investigation needs to be conducted in a methodical fashion, in a slow fashion in the sense of being very careful about identifying a perpetrator.

[10:30:08]