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Sources: NY Police Recovered Multiple High-Capacity Magazines At Scene; Putin: Talks With Ukraine Are At "Dead End"; U.S. Defense Official: Difficult To Confirm Reports Of Chemical Attack While Not On The Ground; Zelenskyy: Russian "Invaders Left Mines Everywhere." Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 12, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

YAV MONTANO, WITNESS TO SUBWAY SHOOTING (via telephone): Yes, that's news to me. That's the first I'm hearing that. And just hearing that and thinking what could have been huge. It's very unsettling for me.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I read some of what you said about what happened.

For people who have not heard what you experienced on this train, just walk us through what happened. Was the smoke the first sign that something was happening or did you lay eyes on this shooter before then?

MONTANO: The smoke was the first sign that something was happening. Any time -- I take the train on a regular basis and anybody who knows the trains in New York know you have to keep your awareness at 1,000 percent at all times.

Even with good awareness and what happened today, it is the farthest thing from people's mind. The first thing being a smoke device, whatever it was, whether it be -- I don't know.

Whatever it is they use to smoke up the area and prevent anybody from seeing, that was the first sign that something was wrong.

Initially, I thought it was a problem with the train car. Then when I saw people running over to my side of the car, because I was in the front end of the car, and whatever took place happened in the back end of the car.

I'm sitting in the front and I see smoke from the corner of my eyes. I know it's not good. It's not too good anytime you see smoke.

And then after the smoke, moments after, I hear what I thought was firecrackers. And I later find out they are not firecrackers. They are actually gunshots.

And the first thing I did was, since I was in the front of the train car, I got up and I hid behind the little wooden side plank that's on the seats between the seats and the door of the train. And I just stayed there while people who were at the furthest end ran

toward the front and jumped on top of each other, walked over each other trying to get as far away as possible.

During all this time, I'm thinking it's firecrackers. It's not until I raise my head up and see there's blood on the floor that I realized firecrackers can't do this much damage. It has to be somebody with a gun.

At this point, what's, the train stops at 59th Street. And between the two express stops, because I was on the express train, two of those stops that the train doesn't stop.

So we're closer to 26th Street. We had just passed the last local stop before you get to 26th Street. And from there, the conductor had made an announcement moments before saying this would be due to traffic in front of us.

And while we were inching closer to get to 26th Street this drama happened. The smoke run off and then there was gunshots. Everybody is rushing, trying to squeeze themselves out.

There's somebody on the train that managed to open the doors walking into the car. I don't know if many people know this, those doors are locked.

So the guy who opened the door used all his strength he could to get that door open. All to find out that the next door in the other car was closed. There was no escape.

We're thankful that the train delay wasn't too long and that we were close to the station.

When I was crouched down hiding, there was a gentleman and lady next to me. The lady took a pepper spray out of her purse and gave it to me as protection just in case things got worse.

There was a 10-second video I recorded. It would have been longer but the gentleman next to me and the lady, she told me to not record anymore, because you don't know what craziness might happen if I'm seen recording something.

So I took whatever precautions I could to stay as safe, to stay as knowledgeable and aware of the situation that I can so I can make the best decision for myself and for the people around me.

I feel so bad for the people that are hurt ,that got stomped on and everything. It's just terrible.

BLACKWELL: We saw the video some people shot of just the chaos there. We saw the blood on the tracks and inside the train car.

Yav, did you see the shooter at any time?

MONTANO: I did not see the shooter. And that is to show you how thick the smoke was. I have never seen anything get as smokey as that before.

[14:35:01]

It was so smokey, I could even get -- I'm in the front of the car. I couldn't see the halfway down the same car I was in. I couldn't make out who was coming out of the smoke or make out anything.

I just heard sound. Like one of my senses was completely turned off. You can't see anything. It was hard to breathe.

It was hard to listen for cues as to what's happening because people are screaming while the smoke is going off and gunshots are going off. It was chaos.

BLACKWELL: This was a workday for you. It is a workday. After this happened, the trauma that you experienced in the morning, you went on to work.

How have these last several hours been for you as you started to process this?

MONTANO: I mean, I work at two jobs. And at my other job that I work at, I have co-workers reaching out to me because they recognized me leaving the train in one of the videos being sent around.

And I just told my bosses and my co-workers what happened. They supported me. They made sure I was OK.

And not being forced to work. I can take my time. And that shows how understanding the people that I work with are.

But they are people that understand there's some craziness you can't control. All you can do is try to survivor or try to make it through. That's what I did.

And thankful I made it through and thankful have I have people that care about me and was asked to make sure I was OK.

BLACKWELL: We have seen other incidents on trains, people being pushed onto tracks, attacks on trains as well. The mayor says that the New York City subway city is safe.

Are you -- do you feel safe getting back on to the train when you have to go to work together and you come home tonight?

MONTANO: After today, my outlook on things has changed. But I'm a born New Yorker. I have been here for years. I have taken the train to go to school. I have taken the train to go to work. I work all around the city. So the subway is what I depend on to get to where I need to be.

And for a situation like this to happen on the train that I was just on yesterday doing the same route that I was today, a train that almost every day for the past few weeks, it just blows my mind that something like this can happen.

And I personally do not feel safe knowing that something as easy as this can happen. There's just a whole bunch of just wrong things to happen.

And god forbid somebody pulled the emergency brake on the train. Nobody even went to the emergency brake for the train.

It we went for the emergency brake for the train, the story could have been different. There's so many things that could have happened that would have made this story different.

And I'm sorry for all the people affected, all the people this are used and hurt. My heart goes out to them. They were doing the same things I was doing, going to work, going to school, trying to survive and live.

BLACKWELL: The New York City subway system democratizes the city. Everybody interacts at some point. The leadership here in the city, they say that the system is safe.

We know that investigators want to speak with witnesses. They want to get as much evidence and information about the shooting as possible.

Have you spoken with investigators or have they reached out to you?

MONTANO: I haven't spoken to investigators because, as soon as the incident happened, I got on the local train that pulled up to the local track and got off at the next stop so I could get to work.

It was too traumatizing for to stay there and be surrounded by that energy. Even then, I know I would give anything to any authorities.

I won't be that much of any help because I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see -- the smoke covered everything. I couldn't see anything.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

MONTANO: So --

BLACKWELL: Well, investigators still want to hear from you, and I'm sure everybody on that train. Maybe a little piece of what you've shared with us can help put other pieces together in their investigation.

[14:40:4]

Yav Montano, listen I know that you are not one of the 16 who were treated at hospitals. You're not one of those who was shot. But this was traumatic. And I know that you are trying to start this healing process. We wish you the best.

And thank you so much for taking a few minutes to talk to us. Yav, thank you.

Alisyn, I'm going to give it back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I'm sure Yav's video that he took and had the presence of mind to take will really help investigators.

Victor, we'll check back with you soon.

Let's talk about what's happening in Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin says peace talks with Ukraine have, quote, "hit a dead end." And he vows to keep the violence going in Ukraine until Moscow succeeds.

And Russian forces now making their push in eastern Ukraine. U.K. intelligence officials predict the fighting will only intensify over the coming weeks. Can the U.S. do more? That's next.

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[14:45:38]

CAMEROTA: Today Vladimir Putin said talks with Ukraine have hit a dead end. He vowed not to stop the war against Ukraine until Moscow succeeds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Russia has reportedly started its major assault in the eastern region. This is some evidence. This is video from Twitter. It shows a residential area near a shipping yard that has come under fire.

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says Putin could be entering a new stage of terror after unconfirmed reports of a chemical attack. Investigators are looking into whether Russia used chemical weapons in the city of Mariupol.

A senior U.S. defense official said the Pentagon cannot confirm those reports yet.

A commander for Ukraine's Azov Battalion posted online that a drone dropped, quote, "a poisonous substance of unknown origin" and three people suffered effects from it.

Joining us is CNN's Fred Pleitgen, who is in Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv.

Fred, Vladimir Putin said that the talks are basically over. How are Ukrainians responded to that?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are saying that's not the case. Adviser to President Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president, he says those talks are still ongoing.

And that they were difficult talks. They are talks currently ongoing in an online format.

Of course, in the past, Alisyn, you have had a couple meetings between the Ukrainian side and Russian side, even a meeting of the foreign ministers that happened in Turkey. They have moved to an online forum.

They are saying that they are going to continue these talks and they are going to keep negotiating if there's any chance to end the fighting here in this country that way.

But I think this points to one of the things that Ukrainian {resident Volodymyr Zelenskyy and generally the Ukraine's have been saying, is they are not sure whether the negotiating team of the Russians has a mandate from Vladimir Putin.

Because, as you recall, there have been instances in the past where Russian officials have said they believe that there was progress in the talks, that things were looking good, only to then have President Vladimir exactly the opposite.

Some of the other comments that he made today, Vladimir put -- he was visiting an rocket engine place with the fellow Russian strongman, Alexander Lukashenko.

He was saying that they're still fighting what he calls Nazis here in Ukraine. That it was something that was going to have to go through the end, that they were going to liberate Donbass.

All of the things that Vladimir Putin said at the beginning of this invasion, he said exactly the same things today.

So therefore, really seems to pour some cold water over the notion there could be a political or negotiated settlement to this conflict -- Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: And, Fred, we know you went to the outskirts of Kyiv to do some reporting. And you found Ukrainians who are coming across a lot of land mines. Tell us what you saw.

PLEITGEN: Yes, it's Land mines, but it's, in general, a lot of unexploded munitions. We saw a cleanup group from the Ukrainians, an ordinance disposal unit there, and they had found literally dozens of artillery shells. You can see some of those on the screen.

What you saw in the foreground and you're seeing right now, that's the cluster munitions. That's something they are also finding as well.

Of course, those are extremely dangerous to regular citizens if they come across those. Those can explode quickly and cause a lot of harm to people, especially children that play in the area.

It's certainly something that's still very dangerous.

I want to listen to something that President Zelenskyy had to say about that because he was very harsh on the Russians.

Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): Invaders left mines everywhere, in the houses, they took over, on the streets, in the fields. They mined people's property, mined cars, stores.

They deliberately did everything to ensure that the return to these areas after de-occupation was as dangerous as possible.

Due to the actions of the Russian army, our territory today is one of the most contaminated by mines in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: Very strong words there from Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

And there have been cases where areas that Ukraine have been able to after driving out Russian forces, where there were shops that were boobytrapped, other places boobytrapped, even dead bodies boobytrapped as well, making it very dangerous not just for the citizens but also for the Ukrainian groups that have to clean those places up.

It still is a very, very long process ahead. And of course, at the same time, the war here continues -- Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Fred, thank you very much for sharing all of that reporting with us.

[14:50:02]

Let's discuss where the war is today with CNN global affairs analyst and contributor at "Time" magazine, Kim Dozier, and CNN military analyst, Major General "Spider" Marks.

Let me start with you, Kim.

The U.K. defense minister said, if Russia did use a chemical attack, that all options are on the table for how Europe or the West, I suppose, would respond.

What does that mean?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, fighting words. And Britain has encountered and endured a couple of different attacks on Russian citizens on its territory by chemical weapons that it attributed to Moscow.

But the fact of the matter is, the U.S., the U.K., NATO, they still don't want to get in any sort of shooting war with Russia.

So whether that means stepping up sanctions further or finding some other way to make Moscow hurt, it's not really clear what they could do to make Putin stop.

Nothing so far has stayed any of his actions beyond Ukrainians beating them on the battlefield.

CAMEROTA: Spider, why would Russia resort to that, knowing that would gin up the response from the West? Mariupol, it sounds as though it has been so decimated. Obviously,

this hasn't been confirmed. Investigators looking into it. We don't know this is true.

Why would they resort to chemical weapons?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: What chemical weapons do is you deny that terrain, either to your own forces or to the opposing forces.

So if chemical weapons were used in Mariupol -- bear in mind, the Russians are trying to create this salient -- that I think, would be victory for Putin.

If you use chemical weapons in Mariupol, Russians are not going to go in there. You contaminated it. It would take a lot of time to decontaminate it.

It's apparent that what the Russians do not want is former citizens of Mariupol to suddenly start to move back in once they think the fighting is over.

It really turns that into a wasteland and it gives Putin an opportunity to say, I've secured this flank of this area of the Donbass. He doesn't have to worry about it and he can commit forces here to try to subjugate it as he goes forward.

CAMEROTA: Kim, another horrible tactic we haven't talked about is the use of sexual assault and rape. That's what we are hearing reports of.

"The New York Times" quotes human rights activists in Ukraine in this article.

"She says that she recorded horrific cases of sexual violence by Russian troops in Bucha and other places, including one in which a group of women and girls were kept in a basement of a house for 25 days. Nine are now pregnant, she said."

Is the point here just to be as barbaric as possible?

DOZIER: It is hard to understand what even an undisciplined force that was angry that so many of their colleagues got cut down, it's hard to understand that anyone would order a group of soldiers to do something like this.

But it does seem to be part of the aftermath that is emerging from any areas that were under Russian control.

The U.S. secretary of state was talking about it in remarks just before we went on here. The U.N. has talked about these reports.

The hard part is going to be getting investigators on the ground to collect the kind of evidence that could be useful at some sort of tribunal in future.

Of course, every time any Russian official is confronted by these reports, they go into "what aboutism," and oh, that was Ukrainian separatists, that wasn't our troops.

It's going to be one set of survivors' testimonies against the denials of Moscow.

CAMEROTA: Spider, I feel as though the world is bracing for what is happening in the east of Ukraine.

The idea that the assault is getting worse, that Vladimir Putin's troops are ginning it up, there's more violence, the onslaught is beginning in the east.

What are you seeing there?

MARKS: Yes, exactly. If I can take one step back and lay down a little bit of a picture.

Here you got the Dnieper River. What you have is the separation, if you will, between these two parts of Ukraine.

Then what's happening with the forces, we have seen video of all the forces coming out of the Kyiv area, moving in this direction and then moving along these salients, supported by the road network in Kharkiv.

So they move into this area. They have isolated this.

When you have a river on one of your flanks -- to get inside military baseball for a second - you have a secure flank and you don't have to worry about it.

[14:55:00]

You can take all forces that have been used here and commit them in this direction. Then the forces that are relocating down from the Kyiv area into this area.

And also, you have one single commander in charge of this operation. That guy is now the overall the theater commander.

All of these activities are now enabling his primary objective, which is to create this. Isolate Mariupol and create this salient here.

It's going to get worse before it gets better simply because of the movement of all of these forces.

CAMEROTA: We have heard from, obviously, the brave Ukrainians who say they will fight to the end.

(CROSSTALK)

MARKS: They should and they will.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And that they need more weapons.

Kim Dozier and Major General Spider Marks, thank you very much.

OK, so we are also back here following the latest after this shooting at a Brooklyn subway station. There's still a manhunt underway for the suspect. The police need your help.

Stay with us.

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