Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

EU Discussing Sixth Package of Sanctions Against Russia; Russian Economy Appears Headed for Major Contraction; Russia Grappling with Possible Deby Default. No Corridors for Civilian Evacuations Today; U.S. Military Veterans Train Ukrainians to Fight Russians. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired April 13, 2022 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Max Foster, we're following breaking news on the New York shooting. Police are on an urgent manhunt for a gunman who reportedly set off two smoke bombs, then opened fire in a subway. The gunman fired at least 33 times, hitting ten people. All are expected to survive.

The credit card and keys to a U-Haul van were found at the scene. Police named Frank James as a person of interest. They say he rented the van which was later discovered in Brooklyn. Police say they don't know if James has any connection to the subway attack, and they're not calling him a suspect. We'll continue to follow the story and bring you the very latest.

European leaders are standing united against Russia's war on Ukraine, the presidents of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia are on route to Kyiv, where they're going to meet with the Ukrainian president. They're expected to discuss aid, and the ongoing investigation into alleged Russian war crimes.

Meanwhile, the European Union is renewing pressure on OPEC to look into increasing their supply of oil and gas, on international markets. This comes as the block is discussing further sanctions against Russian energy with a sixth package expected to target Russian oil.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now live from Brussels. The reality is that Europe can't come off that oil, can they, until they have an alternative supply?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and the other reality is that OPEC doesn't seem to be minded to increase its output. Not only as a European Union has requested, as the U.K. as requested, as President Biden has requested. Russia, the second largest oil producer in the world, Saudi Arabia perhaps the biggest and strongest voice at the table of the OPEC plus.

The commission spokesman here said that the European Union believes that OPEC has a key role to play, in helping bring about the circumstances, I.E., increase oil and gas production, and therefore alternate supplies to the European Union rather than the Russian gas and oil that it relies on so heavily at the moment. And without the OPEC nations doing more -- for the OPEC nations minus Russia -- doing more to support that position, and essentially come out against Russia. Take a strong position against one of their larger members.

The European Union is in a bind, they continue to discuss oil, foreign ministers Monday, Europe ministers yesterday. We're coming in to Easter. But the real focus is -- and we heard from the European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell on Monday saying nothing off the table. Oil or gas usually important. Oil four times larger in terms of imports and value to Russia as well, than gas. So, oil is necessarily the big focus. But as you say that there are so many countries in the European Union that depend on Russian oil.

Let's take Lithuania, for example, whose president is on the way to Kyiv today. A very big statement of support there by the Baltics and by the Polish by going to Kyiv. But the Lithuanians said, yes, we're the first European Union nation to cut imports of Russian gas. But they are still forced to take Russian oil, because they're so heavily dependent on it and there isn't an alternative. So, and Poland also, very heavily dependent. So perhaps they'll import that that when they get to Kyiv.

But these are the constraints. So, I don't think we are expecting the sixth round of sanctions and for it to be heavily focused on oil and I don't think we're expecting announcements on that this side of Easter -- Max.

FOSTER: Of those leaders arriving in Kyiv today, are you expecting any more announcements or is this a fact-finding mission for them?

ROBERTSON: I think it's a fact-finding. I think it's important to continually -- for them to continually show and demonstrate to the Ukrainians that the they are supporting them. Of course, these four nations and the presidents of these four nations that are going are perhaps the countries that have the most skin in the game if you will. They have been the strongest supporters of strong military support for Ukraine. Of calls for the European Union and others to take stronger positions against Russia in terms of sanction.

[04:35:00]

So, it's more than symbolic. You know, you have the support there for the ongoing war crimes investigation. But it is a strong message to the Ukrainians that there is support, and for these nations at least that are visiting today, they really would like to see Ukraine brought into the European Union, sooner rather than later.

FOSTER: OK, Nic in Brussels, thank you.

Sanctioning Russian oil could deliver a crushing blow, as Nic was saying, to Russia's already limping economy. According to a former Russian finance minister, Russia's economy is already on track to contract by more than 10 percent this year. It's the biggest fallen in GDP since just after the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia is already facing soaring inflation and might default on its foreign debt for the first time in more than a century.

Joining me now is Vladimir Milov, a former Russian deputy energy minister, and an ally of Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny. He's currently living in exile and joins us from Lithuania. Thank you for joining us.

What do you make of the fact that Europe is in this bind? If you can't get more oil from OPEC, it's in a very difficult position when it comes to reducing its dependence on Russia.

VLADIMIR MILOV, FORMER RUSSIAN DEPUTY ENERGY MINISTER: Well, I wouldn't say that Europe is totally unsuccessful in finding an alternative sources of oil and gas supply. I would say there are some successes in some of these negotiations. And I also believe that we shouldn't be talking about like a one moment of total cut off of imports of Russian oil and gas. I think the situation is moving towards gradual measures which will not be simultaneous, but still will probably see very soon. Maybe this for this week or the next, some decisions to hold imports of either Russian gas or petroleum products and there are alternatives.

For instance, yesterday Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi had announced a new deal with Algeria, which is supposed to replace some of the Russian natural gas supplies. So, I think things will begin moving, very soon.

FOSTER: So, Russia makes most of his money from oil rather than gas. But Europe is actually more depending on the gas because that's less replaceable, certainly, in the short term, right? Is there any chance that Putin might sit there and think, I'm not going to accept this. I'm going to cut off gas if they cut off the purchase of oil.

MILOV: Well, I think it's roughly equal now, because still it's not the full end of a winter season, there is a significant natural gas consumption at the moment, and the prices for gas have been skyrocketing. Which means I would say that roughly oil and gas currency flows from exports are comparable in size. And like if Putin decides to cut off gas supplies voluntarily, that will hit himself in the first place.

Because Russia receives like roughly a billion euros a day from European exports of oil and gas, in total. And if a significant part of this currency flow is cut, that will mean a lot of trouble for the Russian economy, less ability to finance the military and the ongoing invasion. So, I think yes, Putin might be threatening with such moves. But I think if he really does that, that will be painful for himself in the first place.

FOSTER: What he must be really worried about, is defaulting on his foreign debts. Because that could -- and we've seen in the past -- cause huge harm to the economy for years to come, because you won't be able to borrow any more money. One of the chances of that default and what impact would it have?

MILOV: Well listen, I think the situation is very, very different from nine to eight. The last default we had almost a quarter of a century ago, then we are really dependent on international borrowing. We are not even so much dependent now but we are effectively cut off from global capital markets. So, the news that I hear about potential Russian default on its bonds, I think this is inflicted by Russian government itself. Because it want to sort of instigate creditors to put more pressure on Western governments to ease the sanctions.

Because Russia has the money to pay. It just voluntarily doesn't want to. And I think right now what matters, is this huge inflow of cash from exports of oil and gas. You know, international loan market is not as important for Russia. So, I think here is where they can voluntarily default to actually do some harm to creditors. To make them pressure Western governments to ease the sanctions.

So, default right now is not the same thing as it was in 1998.

FOSTER: OK, Vladimir Milov, thank you very much indeed for your insight.

The war in Ukraine causing the World Trade Organization to slash its global trade outlook for this year. Meanwhile, a warning rather, that the international community has to brace for the fallout.

[04:40:00]

The WTO is now predicting a trade volume growth of 3 percent, down from its original forecast of 4.7 percent. But the organization says these estimates could change, due to the fluid nature of the conflict. The war is threatening supplies of food, energy and fertilizers. Which is causing a sharp rise in commodity prices. The lockdowns in China are also hurting world trade.

Now Ukrainians trapped in the conflict zones, are having a tough time escaping now. We'll have details on that, and a live report from the Ukraine, Poland border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister has announced they'll be no humanitarian corridors today because Russian forces are violating cease-fires and blocking evacuation buses in parts of the country. Russia's war on Ukraine is uprooted millions of people, and they're now living in limbo.

According to the U.N., more than 4.6 million have fled Ukraine since Russia invaded nearly seven weeks ago. The vast majority of those refugees went to Poland. That's where we find CNN's Salma Abdelaziz, near the Ukraine/Poland border. I mean, it's worrying to see all of these people leaving the country, but it's almost more worried to see a slowdown in that, because it means they're trapped in nasty parts in Ukraine right now.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, Max. And I'm at the pedestrian crossing here of the border. So yes, you were speaking about those humanitarian corridors. And of course, it often takes days for them to cross through the country, to cross through Ukraine. But sometimes those families fleeing by humanitarian corridors arrive here.

And I just want to walk you through this place. You get a sense of what greets them when they arrive. If you look over here, you're going to see one of the donations, one of the volunteers, who brought these hand me down strollers. So, if a family comes across and they have a stroller, they don't have a wheelchair, they can pick one up here, they can get them. That's what they might need when they arrive.

Remember, this is a pedestrian crossing. So, they only have with them what they can carry. And I haven't seen anyone come across with a stroller.

[04:45:00]

So, that's really key, that's really important for them. You're also going to will see this tent over here. And yes, it is a busy intersection here. So, just mind all these people in the jackets, they're volunteers. They're here to help. They're here to carry people's bags. And they're also going to offer toys to the children. They're goin to offer pampers to the moms. Another tent here, where you can see toothbrushes, some basic supplies. So, if you weren't to grab that before you left, you can grab it now. Sorry for all the dogs. Because people come across with their pets too, Max.

So, this is a really busy intersection. And when you arrive here -- sorry, two dogs barking here -- when you arrive here, what these volunteers want to do is give these families a sense of security. They're going to come from that area behind me here. They're going to walk across all these tents. They're going to be offered food, medicine, basic supplies of that is what they need. And then there going to be loaded on buses at the end of this crosswalk.

And from there, their journey continues, Max. You have to remember, when they arrive to safety in Poland, their journey is not over. They still have to figure out where they're going to sleep. They still have to figure out if they're going to go to another European city. So, this area is just a chance for them to grab what they need before they have to move again -- Max.

FOSTER: In terms of how they are coping, I mean, is it the same level of support? Are they getting back up? Or are people leaving at the time? Because a lot of those volunteers can't stay there forever.

ABDELAZIZ: The support is absolutely, I mean, yes, emotionally people want to continue to support. But when you talk about financially, that money is running out, if not has run out. We've spoken to volunteers who say, look, they want to keep their doors open. They want to continue to provide shelter. They want to continue to provide safe spaces. But they simply don't have the cash to do so. And there needs to be a long-term plan here.

Think about all the children that are crossing here. When do they go to school? How do they go to school? Obviously, there's a different language here. So, how do you begin to provide classrooms for them? How do you begin to provide jobs, for the families who do need to stay here?

The Polish president is actually heading to Kyiv right now. He's going to meet with President Zelenskyy today. And you can expect that that's going to be at the top of the agenda, Max. How do they continue to support over two and a half million refugees and give them a more permanent sense of home here -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Salma, at the border. Thank you.

And now, the U.S. is not sending troops to Ukraine. But American military veterans are choosing to go anyways. Coming up, how a retired marine colonel is training Ukrainians to fight back.

[04:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The U.S. is expected to announce hundreds of millions of dollars in new military aid to Ukraine soon. The final amount hasn't been finalized as of Tuesday, but two sources tell CNN the package is expected to be worth close to $700 million. President Joe Biden says he will not send to Ukraine our active-duty troops. But as CNN's Jake Tapper reports, U.S. military veterans no longer in service are volunteering to go anyway.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER (voice-over): Current U.S. service members are not in Ukraine. But U.S. veterans, they damn sure are.

At an undisclosed location in Ukraine, a retired U.S. Marine, veteran Colonel Andrew Milburn is training Ukrainians to fight the Russians. Melbourne knows what it's like on the frontlines. An American who grew up in the U.K., he has served in Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

COL. ANDREW MILBURN (RET.), U.S. MARINE CORPS VETERAN TRAINING UKRAINIANS: You know I went through the battle of Fallujah. But I would rather do that again than confront, you know, a 12-hour barrage of Russian artillery like the one we're seeing.

TAPPER (voice-over): Having retired from the U.S. military in 2019, Melbourne runs an organization that brings in other former Special Forces members to assess the needs of various militaries.

After losing the battle of Kyiv, leaving behind devastation and evidence of atrocities, the Russians are now returning to the Eastern flank of Ukraine to what will likely be a series of large-scale battles.

MILBURN: Ukrainian military at large is more adaptive than the U.S. military, and I think -- I mean, I feel justified. I mean, I'm qualified to say that.

TAPPER (voice-over): This more open, less wooded terrain in the east could be more challenging for the Ukrainian military, which was able to rely on guerilla tactics and calling in targeted strikes in the North.

MILBURN: It is going to be a significant challenge. Russians are much stronger in the -- in the defense.

TAPPER: Milburn trains ordinary Ukrainians to fight in the resistance, as well as training more elite Ukrainian Special Forces like Mykola. Ukrainian success, Mykola says, are because of help from the U.S., other NATO countries, and individuals like Milburn.

MYKOLA, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN SPECIAL FORCES: Also because of your help, we were quite successful with the first attack. So, Russians leave our territory, not for their own wishes. They lost a lot of troops, a lot of tanks, a lot of armed vehicles. We were using -- we were using modern Europe and American anti-tank missiles. And they lost a lot.

TAPPER (voice-over): He knows what's to come will be tough.

MYKOLA: We need more. Now, yes, you are right, we have a pause. But it's not -- it doesn't mean that the war has stopped already.

TAPPER (voice-over): Melbourne agrees. The Ukrainians still need a great deal.

MILBURN: They need drones, right? They need drones with a range longer than the DJ-1. They need secure radios because they need to communicate. Those are very basic things. They need medical equipment.

TAPPER (voice-over): Even upgrading the basic equipment they already have could make a big difference, he says.

MILBURN: A lot of times they're just -- they're coordinating by cell phone, or by just, you know, kind of regular Motorola radios, which can be intercepted, geolocated, jammed. So, anyone who's been in any Western military would be astounded.

TAPPER (voice-over): But weapons and equipment are not the only need. Training, he says, is key.

MILBURN: They lack medical training. And you know, evidence of that is, if you talk to Ukrainian medics, there are some horror stories out there.

[04:55:00]

So, injuries that would be easily survival in Iraq or Afghanistan by U.K. or U.S. force soldiers, Ukrainians are dying from here.

TAPPER (voice-over): Milburn is proud of his time in uniform. He is proud to be a Marine. But there is something purer about this fight, he says, than the others he has fought. MILBURN: But frankly, you know, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially Afghanistan after the debacle back in -- you know, I want to say August, there was always a kind of moral ambivalence. There was always a feeling of being an invading army, right. Even -- even at the beginning of those conflicts, we thought our causes were good. So, there was always that -- there was always kind of that dissonance between the idealism that pulled you into the military, and then what you found yourself doing.

Here, there's no such thing. You've got one sovereign nation being invaded by another. And yes, to your point, when it comes down to it. It is evil -- good versus evil. And this time it fell very squarely on the side of good.

TAPPER (voice-over): Jake Tapper, CNN, Lviv, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Jackie Robinson, broke Major League Baseball color barrier on April the 15th in 1947, 75 years later, almost to the day, Alyssa Nakken broke the sports gender barrier as she made history as the first woman to coach on the field during a regular season game. It happened in the bottom of the third inning on Tuesday, when she entered the game to coach first base for the San Francisco Giants, because the regular coach had been ejected from the game. Nakken is also the first female coach ever on a major league team. Congratulations to her.

Thanks for joining me here on CNN news. I'm Max Foster in London. Our coverage continues on "EARLY START" with Christine Romans in New York, and Brianna Keilar in Lviv, Ukraine. You are watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)