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Ukraine Says It Hit Vital Russian Warship, Kremlin Blames Onboard Fire; Russia Claims Video Shows Ukrainian Marines Surrendering in Mariupol; First Court Appearance Today for Subway Shooting Suspect. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 14, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

This morning, a major blow to Russia's Navy, a key Russian warship, flagship, in fact, badly damaged. That assessment confirmed by National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan. Ukrainian commanders say they struck the Moskva, one of Russia's flagships, with a cruise missile. This was, we should note, one of the ships involved in that infamous attack on Snake Island when the sailors there said some nasty things to that ship.

The Kremlin is denying the missile strike. I am told this morning the Ukrainian military has shared its assessment with the U.S. military.

GOLODRYGA: Also new this morning, this disturbing video from Russian state T.V. This is in the Donbas region in Southeastern Ukraine, where Russian state media claims that more than 1,000 Ukrainian marines surrendered to Russian forces in Mariupol. Ukraine is denying this report and we should note that CNN cannot identify the authenticity of this video just yet.

Also this morning, Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby says Russia has not yet taken control of Mariupol.

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JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We still assess that it's being contested and that's one of the reasons why we're signing out yet another package of $800 million of security assistance to go to Ukraine so that they can better defend themselves.

At some points, it only takes a matter of less than a week from the time the president authorizes a drawdown package for us to get at least the first shipment or so into Ukraine. And we're going to be working at great speed here to try to do exactly that.

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GOLODRYGA: Now, that $800 billion aid package include security assistance, ammunition and a whole new category of weapons that we have not seen before.

So, let's begin this morning with CNN's Brianna Keilar who is in Lviv, Ukraine. And, Brianna, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan has confirmed that the Russian flagship was badly damaged. What more is the U.S. saying about what exactly happened?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Bianna and Jim, John Kirby, Pentagon spokesman, told me that there was an explosion or at least one explosion on board the ship but he did stress that it's hard to know if it came externally from a missile or if it came internally. He mentioned he spent a lot of time on ships and there are obviously a lot of things that could cause a fire just internally inside of the ship, but he certainly didn't rule out that there was some sort of missile strike there.

In the meantime, we're also hearing that the U.S. is considering, and it seems like it's getting pretty certain, a cabinet level official coming to Kyiv to meet with President Zelenskyy. You've seen so many leaders of different countries coming to meet with him, as we understand, it's not going to be President Biden but it could be a cabinet level official.

So which one would it be? Would it be Antony Blinken, the top diplomat, or might it be Lloyd Austin, the secretary of defense, department of war, right, sending perhaps a different message here. I spoke with an aide to the president who said he thinks it's going Lloyd Austin. So, I asked John Kirby about that, and here's what he said.

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KIRBY: I have no travel for the secretary to talk to today, nothing to announce, nothing to speak to.

Ukraine is under attack right now. It's been invaded by a foreign power. So, of course, any potential visit, and, again, I'm not previewing one, but any potential visit, you have to have security concerns. We certainly wouldn't do it if we couldn't meet those concerns. But, again, I don't have any travel to speak to today.

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KEILAR: The other big, outstanding question right now is when is this what is expected to be a large offensive launched by Russian forces in the Donbas going to begin, French military has assessed that it's going to happen here in the next few days.

Jim and Bianna, I asked John Kirby about that. He did not completely agree with what the French wer saying. He said that the U.S. assessment is that it will happen here in the next couple of weeks.

SCIUTTO: We're already seeing heavy fighting in some cities out there as well. Brianna Keilar there in Lviv, thanks so much.

So, joining us now to discuss, CNN Contributor, former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty. Jill, always good to have you.

I want to ask about the level of military support at this point. Because, now, if you look at the list, including this list of this latest aid, armored personnel carriers, mobile howitzers, helicopters, you've already tanks now coming from the Czechs and, of course, those highly effective shoulder-fired missile systems that have been able to get tanks and aircraft.

I wonder how Russia reads all of this aid. Because, as you know, there's been great sensitivity from the U.S., arguably from some, too much sensitivity about Russia's reactions, but this is quite lethal assistance.

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Do they look at this as an escalation?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, I think they definitely do and I think they are worried, Jim. They've already said that any type of equipment that comes in from the west is fair game, that they can target it, and I think Putin realizes that this is very serious. It's a different type of fighting in the east but with all this weaponry coming in for the Ukrainians, it is looking as if it will be much more difficult for the Russians to accomplish what they seem to want to accomplish.

GOLODRYGA: Jill, as you just heard Brianna mention, there is a lot of discussion about having a cabinet level official, high cabinet level official visit Kyiv in the coming weeks following other western leaders doing the same. I'm just curious to get your thoughts then as someone who closely is following Russian media. I'm sure you've been seeing reports out of the Russian Defense Ministry threatening yet another attack on Kyiv, for what they view as provocations and potential future attacks planned on Russian soil.

How much of a threat is that and do you think that that should factor into any decision to send cabinet official over now?

DOUGHERTY: Well, realistically, I do think you have to take that seriously. But, you know, there are more people in Kyiv right now, many representatives of European governments, are there. So, there are a lot more targets that would create a lot more complications for Russia were they to kill some people.

So, I think you would have to really have the intelligence behind it to back up your decision. I'm sure they're looking at all of those factors, that it's very clear, you know, I think, looking at all of this together, militarily, economically, et cetera. Maybe we can talk about this. I think Vladimir Putin is really getting more and more concerned about where this is going. I think a lot of what he's saying right now is really a sign of weakness.

SCIUTTO: Jill, you have said that, domestically speaking, given that potential weakness that Putin has to win in Donbas, what's he willing to do to get something he can call a win?

DOUGHERTY: Well, militarily, of course, what they have been doing in the rest of the Ukraine will only be intensified. This kind of, you know, bombing, destroying cities, violations of human rights, all of that, I would have to think, will continue and probably escalate.

And then also I'm really watching some of the domestic situation in Russia and the messaging that the Kremlin is putting out to their own people. We believe, because of some polling, Russian polling, that there is considerable support. But polling is very unreliable at this point mainly because people can't really trust that they can tell the truth.

And you look at some of the escalation and rhetoric, which is really astounding, gone from, Ukraine is being used by the west to attack Russia, et cetera. So, actually using the word, I looked at it this morning, Satanism. Russian media are now -- this is in talk shows, it's not official, but it's out there, that the Ukrainians are actually Satanistic.

There's an element -- I remember the old Soviet days, they would criticize the west, but there's kind of almost a religious element creeping into this, that this is (INAUDIBLE), Putin said it's a noble, we have noble objectives. So, you have this kind of existential, I would say, almost religious fervor going on right now in Russia.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, you're absolutely right. Their top pundits nightly now are saying to go all the way, finish it, right, don't just focus on the east there, very, very aggressive rhetoric from them.

Jill, I'm just curious to get your thoughts on what we heard from Vladimir Putin yesterday as he was touring earlier this week, as he was touring his space (ph) facility there with his buddy, Lukashenko, when he, once again, reiterated the justification in his view for this war to liberate these people. I mean, on the one hand, we're seeing these images of carnage and war crimes and he is still using this as a way of saying, endearing, right, that we needed to save these people from Nazism, right, and nationalism.

DOUGHERTY: Bianna, I took that as Vladimir Putin trying to bring the Russian people back on the same page. I went in with two objectives, protect people in Donbas, the Russian speakers in Donbas, and also to defend Russia. He continues to believe that a lot of this is focused on destroying Russia and obviously bringing down his presidency.

[10:10:03]

So, for him, it's very existential.

So, I think it was kind of reminding the people, maybe the world, but I think it was really a domestic message, reminding them, this is the mission. We are going to accomplish that. He said, you know, we're going to do that. And he is also talking about sanctions that are really hurting. And at this point, he's saying, the sanctions are hurting the west too. That's another message.

GOLODRYGA: He's saying the west needs this oil just as much as we do, right, and that's our job to produce it.

Jill Dougherty, always great to have you on. Thank you.

Well, right now, the U.N. says more than 4.7 million refugees have fled Ukraine since the war began. One of those countries is Estonia, where over 30,000 people have gone to seek safety.

SCIUTTO: Yes, 4.7 million, that's now more than one in ten Ukrainians who fled for their lives and a lot of countries around them really taking on a burden.

CNN's Scott McLean is in Tallinn, the capital of Estonia, with more on how Estonians are finding ways to accommodate a huge influx of refugees.

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SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This has been a mad scramble for the government to actually find places for them to stay. Hotels have gotten quite expensive. And so, instead, the government came up with this. This is the top deck of a cruise ship, actually. Normally, this would be shuttling people back and forth from Latvia to Sweden. Now, it is parked here in the city of Tallinn. You can see the skyline there to serve as housing potentially for up to the next four months.

Let me just take you inside briefly and show you what it looks like. So, this is the 11th floor. There are seven other floors that look a lot like this with a lot more space actually where people can gather, mill about, the kids. You can see they can run around and be kids here and they have all the space in the world. The rooms are extremely small here. Some are really only hold a bed and maybe a tiny little bathroom. So, there's not a whole lot of room. But, of course, that is a lot better than a school gymnasium. It is a lot better than sheltering in a bomb shelter in Ukraine.

The government tells me that, by and large, Estonians want to help Ukrainians, which is why they are being so, so generous in taking so many. It's obviously a big financial burden but Estonians understand the constant threat of Russian aggression as an ex-Soviet state themselves. So, they understand. They have a lot of empathy for Ukrainians.

Everyone here has a story. We've met people from all over the country. Some people fled Ukraine when the bombs got a little bit too close, some from the worst hit areas, like Kyiv, like Irpin, others. One woman told me that her son was having panic attacks just from the constant sirens.

A lot of kids now, you'll see them on laptops, they're doing online schooling back in Ukraine. One woman that I was speaking to, her son was doing school and he actually had the class canceled because there were sirens back in Ukraine where the teacher was located.

So, there are all kinds of challenges. The one constant that you find with almost everyone is that everyone wants to go home at the first possible opportunity. Though the government says that, for a small country that desperately needs more people, especially younger people, given that they have an aging population here, Estonia would like to see a lot of these people stick around for the long run.

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GOLODRYGA: It's just nice to see those kids play behind him there, right, Jim?

SCIUTTO: For sure, yes. And countries stepping up, right? I mean, tremendous hospitality in those countries and for the long run, because the war is showing no signs of ending.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Our thanks to Scott McLean for that report.

Well, this just in, the suspect in the Brooklyn subway shooting has his first court appearance tentatively set for noon today. We're live in New York following it.

SCIUTTO: Plus, there's outrage in Grand Rapids, Michigan. A 26-year- old black man was shot and killed by police during a traffic stop. We're going to have the latest on the questions about the use of deadly force here as well police transparency.

And can Twitter afford to turn down Elon Musk's proposal? The billionaire's cash offer, what it could mean for former President Trump on the platform, later this hour.

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GOLODRYGA: The suspected gunman on the Brooklyn subway shooting that injured 29 people is to make his first appearance in court today tentatively set for noon. Frank James faces federal terrorism charges. He was arrested yesterday after essentially turning himself in.

SCIUTTO: CNN National Correspondent Jason Carroll has been covering the story since the beginning. He joins us now from Manhattan right where James is taken into custody.

So, what do we expect in the courtroom today? How quickly do we expect this all to proceed from here?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, again, we expect that court proceeding to get underway, just about two hours from now. But a lot of folks, as you can imagine, Jim, still talking about what happened right out here on this sidewalk, just a few feet from where I'm standing. That's where police actually apprehended Frank James yesterday afternoon.

It all started with that call to the crime stoppers tip line. According to law enforcement sources, it was Frank James himself who called into that tip yesterday afternoon, saying that he was at a local McDonald's, located just a few blocks from where I'm standing right now. By the time police got over there, he was nowhere to be found.

That's where Francisco Puebla steps in. He is a Good Samaritan. He was working in the area, recognized Frank James from television. And once he saw police officers, he flagged them down and alerted them to what he saw.

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FRANCISCO PUEBLA, RECOGNIZED SUBWAY SHOOTING SUSPECT ON THE STREET: I recognized him like right away, but at the same time I feel like kind of panicked because he was carrying a backpack on his right-hand side. He was like heavy and he was going and talking to himself.

I took some action and I went right straight up to the police car, and I told the police officer that I just saw the man, the one who did the shooting in Brooklyn.

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CARROLL: The suspect taken into custody without incident. At one point when he was transferred into federal custody, he was walked past reporters who were shouting questions at him, including, why did you do it? Why did you do it? Frank James did not answer.

Again, he will have his first court appearance in Brooklyn, in federal court, just in about two hours from now. He is facing a number of charges, including a federal charge, one count of violating a law which prohibits terrorist attacks and other violence against a mass transportation system. If convicted, he's looking at spending the rest of his life in prison. Back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, of course, we'll be following his first court appearance today on CNN. Jason Carroll, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Another story we're following today, the family of 26-year- old Patrick Lyoya still waiting for his full autopsy following a deadly police shooting in Michigan. Lyoya died earlier this month, shot in the head after a struggle with a Grand Rapids police officer. That struggle followed a traffic stop.

Wednesday, the police department released several videos from the shooting. They're hard to watch. You do see an officer pull him over for what was improper registration. And then you could see him exiting the vehicle, runs, tackled, struggle ensues.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The audio of Lyoya speaking is indistinguishable, but as the struggle continues, the officer is repeatedly heard saying stop and stop resisting.

Now, the officer's body camera footage cuts out at one point and that's when the passenger in Lyoya's car captured on cell phone video the moment of that fatal gunshot.

Now, let's discuss this with former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey. Commissioner Ramsey, I want to play this cell phone video for you. Once again, it is difficult to watch, but let's listen and then discuss on the other side.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay in the car.

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GOLODRYGA: Okay, I believe that's not the --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let go of the taser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ain't got no taser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let go of the taser. Drop the taser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So, again, disturbing there to watch the officer sitting on top of Lyoya. But having seen what you have, Officer Ramsey, Commissioner Ramsey, what do you make of this? Was it excessive use of force or was it justified on the part of the police officer?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, let me start by saying, first of all, I don't have all the reports, investigative report, officer's statements or anything, but having watched the video, it is disturbing. I mean, first of all, a one person car, which is not unusual, he makes a traffic stop. The individual at one point begins to walk away.

At that point in time, he should have called for back-up because, clearly, this individual was not going to cooperate with what it is you're saying. He approaches the individual, he puts his hand on his shoulder, a struggle ensues, he pulls his taser, which is problematic because he's so close. The individual is able to grab his arm, which you saw on the video.

Now, he fires the taser, according to the statement made by the chief and it sounds like it on the video, he discharged the taser twice. Well, there's only two cartridges in that model of taser. After you fire the second cartridge, unless you put a new cartridge in, you can't use it again. And so it was useless.

Now, the individual takes off. He's in pursuit. They started struggling and at the time, he fires the shot. He's actually on top of the individual. Now, deadly force is authorized if you are in fear of your life or the life of another. I don't know what happened to make him feel like he was in fear for his life, but certainly, looking at the video, this is problematic.

Now, Michigan State Police are the ones doing the investigation. I don't know -- they'll have a lot more information than I have at this point in time, but the video itself is of great concern.

SCIUTTO: Chief Ramsey, I have to ask you, because we've seen so many situations like this where folks are stopped for -- this was a registration issue, right. He was not accused of a violent crime, he was pulled over.

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Why was he -- does he need to be stopped, in your view, is that good policing? Second of all, does the officer need to tackle him, need to arrest him? I mean, does that follow policing standards?

RAMSEY: Well, first of all, the stop was a legitimate stop. I mean, it looked like he had temporary tags on the vehicle. It could have been stolen. It could have been variety of things. And it's a traffic offense. So, you make a stop, you issue a citation is what would normally happen, provided, of course, the car is not stolen or something like this. But it quickly escalated beyond the traffic stop and became a situation where it actually became an assault, it became resisting arrest, it became all those kinds of things.

The real issue is whether or not deadly force was authorized or appropriate at that point in time. And, again, they're going to have to do a lot of digging but if you just look at the video, it is questionable as to whether or not the use of deadly force was justified in that particular circumstance.

SCIUTTO: Yes, always a question about escalation, de-escalation as well. Chief Charles Ramsey, thanks so much.

RAMSEY: Okay.

SCIUTTO: Well, we have seen atrocities happening in Ukraine to innocent people, civilians, including children. What will it take to bring war crimes charges against those behind those atrocities we've been seeing?

Up next, we're going to hear from an international criminal attorney with close ties to Ukrainian prosecutors who are gathering evidence and investigating, as we speak.

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