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Interview With Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-NY); Russian Troops Moving to Eastern Ukraine?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 14, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: A committee will pick up to five states to move up before Super Tuesday. That's the first Tuesday in March. The current first four, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina, will have to apply to keep their place.

Appreciate your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you back here tomorrow.

Dana Bash picks up our coverage right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Dana Bash. Ana Cabrera is off today.

It is day 50 of Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine. And at this very moment, the war appears to be entering a new phase. A senior U.S. defense official tells CNN the first Russian troops that have left Northern Ukraine are coming back, appearing in the northern Donbass region of Eastern Ukraine.

That's believed to be in preparation for a major Russian offensive involving thousands of troops. The U.S. and its allies are racing to deliver new military aid, including new types of weaponry for Ukrainian fighters. But now there is even greater fear that it might not arrive quickly enough.

A senior defense official telling CNN: "Time is not our friend."

And on the see, another battle is playing out. Ukraine says it hit the guided missile cruiser Moskva in the Black Sea with two missiles. Russia says an accidental fire detonated ammunition on board, but concedes significant damage. And the ship has been evacuated.

And the U.S. may send a high-ranking representative to Ukraine to show the kind of solidarity we have seen from other Western leaders. That's according to a source familiar with the talks.

And minutes ago, at Joint Base Andrews, President Biden was asked about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Will you send senior officials to Ukraine?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we're making that decision now. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We have a lot to cover this hour.

Let's begin at the Pentagon with CNN's Barbara Starr.

Barbara, if this is your new reporting about Russian troop movements, what can you tell us?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, a senior defense official says they are beginning to see the first signs of Russian troops moving back into the northern Donbass.

That's that eastern region of Ukraine where all attention is focused, because it is believed a forthcoming major battle is taking shape there. What they are seeing is some Russian units that had left Northern Ukraine several days ago refit, resupply and come back into the northern part of Eastern Ukraine.

But this is not the full-on invasion force yet. This is the beginning, the leading edge, if you will, some aviation, some command-and- control, some artillery, the things to shape the battlefield for what is to come, and a good deal of concern about all of that, because there is a sense that Putin has a bit of a timeline for this battle. He wants it to be accomplished by mid-May -- Dana.

BASH: And, Barbara, the new military package that we reported on yesterday includes weapons that haven't been sent before. So how does this, given what we're seeing on the landscape, affect the speed with which the U.S. and its allies can get those weapons to Ukraine?

STARR: Well, we are seeing now the approval of the heavy weapons.

And we can show our viewers a list of some of the things. And take a look right off the top of the list, howitzer, Mi-17 helicopters, air defense radar, counterbattery radars. These are the things that they will need for that Donbass fight. It is geography that is open, flat, relatively speaking.

They are going to be firing at very long ranges. This is not the ambush tactics we saw in the woods north of Kyiv several weeks ago. So this is the critical package of heavy weapons that Zelenskyy has wanted and that now finally are being shipped.

But, as you point out, Dana, time is of the essence. If Putin is already moving, can they get all of this there fast enough? We are told the top items will be front-loaded. They will go first, but it is still going to take time. The last shipment of some $800 million of aid is taking four weeks to get there.

And those are lighter weapons -- Dana.

BASH: Really interesting and important reporting, as always. Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

And now let's go to Ukraine. CNN's Matt Rivers is in Lviv.

So, Matt, what's the latest there, specifically on that Russian warship?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's the big headline from Ukraine, I think, today, Dana, talking about this fire on essentially this key Russian warship, the Moskva, that is now out of commission.

This is one of the most important ships in the Russian navy. It is the flagship of the Russian navy's Black Sea fleet. And now it's out of commission. That is something that all sides agree on, the Russians, the Ukrainians, the Americans.

What -- they differ is what the cause of this fire was and the subsequent explosions of ammunition board. The Russians say it was an accidental fire. They say they don't know the cause quite yet. But what the Ukrainians are saying is that it was themselves that did it by firing several shore-based cruise missiles called Neptune missiles that were developed here in Ukraine, brought into service within the last year or so.

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And the Ukrainians saying they fired several of those cruise missiles, successfully hitting and essentially crippling this ship. Now, the United States, asked about its assessment of what's going on here, basically says it's still trying to determine that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Certainly, the way that this unfolded, it's a big blow to Russia. This is their flagship, the Moscow, and they have now been forced to admit that it has been badly damaged.

And they have had to kind of choose between two stories. One story is that it was just incompetence, and the other was that they came under attack, and neither is a particularly good outcome for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS: But no matter what the cause is here, Dana, essentially, you're talking about one of the most important ships in the Russian navy being taken out of service.

That does two things. One, it limits Russia's technical capabilities in terms of its ability to fight this war. It will have an impact on that, but, also, it's a symbolic blow against Russia, and something that will buoy Ukrainian forces after we have seen their successes in the northern part of Ukraine, this another setback for the Russians ahead of this new offensive that Barbara was just talking about that we expect to begin in the days and weeks ahead.

BASH: Matt Rivers, thank you so much for that report. And just four weeks after being under siege, Ukraine's capital city of

Kyiv is seeing a stream of visiting heads of state, here, the president of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia visiting the Ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

And now the White House is considering a similar show of solidarity.

I want to go straight to the White House. CNN's M.J. Lee is there.

M.J., we heard at the top of the show President Biden openly saying that they're discussing it. What are you hearing from your sources about who is under consideration to go?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dana, what we are being told is that U.S. officials have had preliminary, early conversations about the possibility of sending a high-ranking official to Ukraine at this time.

But it is very important to emphasize that the idea of either President Biden or Vice President Harris making that trip to Ukraine anytime soon, that that is unlikely. But some of the names that have been discussed include people like Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin or Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Now, important to emphasize, as we heard directly from the president himself just a few moments ago, that a decision has not been made. And it is very possible that a visit like this may not even happen at all. And, of course, important to note the obvious fact that Ukraine right now is a war zone. It is a country that is under attack.

So Pentagon spokesman John Kirby saying on our air this morning that it is very, very important to take into consideration the security concerns if such a trip were to take place. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: There's not a time when a major official of the administration goes anywhere where we don't factor in security concerns, of course.

And Ukraine is under attack right now. It's been invaded by a foreign power. So, of course, any potential visit -- and, again, I'm not previewing one -- but any potential visit, you would have to have security concerns.

And we certainly wouldn't do it if we couldn't meet those concerns. But, again, I don't have any travel to speak to you today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: You mentioned earlier, Dana, that we have seen a number of foreign leaders visiting Ukraine in recent days.

Over the weekend, of course, we saw British Prime Minister Boris Johnson walking the streets of Kyiv with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Those images were incredibly striking, given what is going on in the country. I should also quickly note, too, when President Biden visited Europe a couple of weeks ago, and when he was in Poland to take a look at the humanitarian crisis at the border, he did express a desire to get over the border be in Ukraine himself, so that he could see with his own eyes exactly what is happening in the country.

BASH: Very, very dicey, but understandable as a show of solidarity on all fronts.

Thank you so much, M.J. Lee. Appreciate that.

And let's continue this conversation with retired Army Brigadier General Kevin Ryan.

Thank you so much for joining me.

First, your reaction to Barbara Starr's new reporting that Russian troops that had left Northern Ukraine, gone back up to Russia are now starting to come back down into the east into the Donbass region?

BRIG. GEN. KEVIN RYAN (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Right.

Well, President Putin and Minister of Defense Shoygu both told us this was going to happen. What we're seeing are the first steps of what I will call the last phase of this active fighting. In other words, the -- Putin has claimed victory in phase one, even though we know they didn't get what they really wanted.

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But he's claimed victory there. And he has said that the final phase or the ultimate phase left is the freeing or liberating of the Donbass, which is where all of these troops are being moved down to the south and east, so they can accomplish that operation.

This will be the last fight. And once Putin has this land, then he will likely call for a cease-fire, so that he can consolidate his gains and refit his military.

BASH: You say it's the last fight.

That signals to me that you think that Russia is going to win this one. What do you mean?

RYAN: Well...

BASH: Can you elaborate on what you mean by the last fight?

RYAN: Yes.

Yes, it's the last part of this fighting. If you believe what Putin says, he's in a war with the West. And that happened before -- that started before Ukraine and will go on afterwards.

But this phase of that war is active fighting. And he's trying to take land that will give him a strategic position in the region and along the Black Sea there. And he's almost got the land that he -- enough land that he can go back to the Russian people and declare a victory of sorts.

Meanwhile, Ukraine can also claim a victory of sorts, because it will have stopped the Russian advance and prevented them from taking over Kyiv and all the rest of Ukraine. So, both sides are going to claim victory out of this. But both sides are also short of what they really want.

BASH: Yes. And, meanwhile, we have all of these innocent civilians literally getting caught in the -- well, I wouldn't say crossfire, getting caught by Russian attacks.

So, General, just minutes ago, CIA Director William Burns said that the U.S. will not take lightly the possibility that Russia could seek to use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine. Do you think that is a legitimate threat from Russia?

RYAN: It is a legitimate threat.

They have tactical nuclear weapons. They plan for their use. They do have a recognition of the fact -- the level of escalation that this would represent. I don't think they would use it for any reason, short of losing a large part of their military formation or not being able to claim some sort of victory in Ukraine.

I think they're going to be able to claim a victory. So I don't see the use as likely. But, yes, they could do it. And it could be part of a broader scheme to scare off NATO and the West.

BASH: Yes. Yes. Let's hope it's just a threat, for sure.

So, we're talking about what Russia is doing. And we have been talking today about the U.S. really now scrambling to get the Ukrainians the kinds of weapons that they have been asking for to try to have a defense -- a proper defense against Russia, particularly in the Donbass area.

We have on the screen the list of some of the weapons that are going to be headed towards Ukraine. I know you're familiar with them. Some of this is different from what we have seen before. How much will actually require training for the Ukrainians to use them?

I mean, this isn't necessarily just a pick-up-and-go kind of situation is it?

RYAN: No.

Counterbattery radars, though, have already been delivered to Ukraine, so they should be able to master that pretty quickly. Mi-17 helicopters are something that they have flown themselves. Artillery is great. Apologies to the artillerymen, but it doesn't take a master's degree to operate it. They can do that.

I think the most important weapons -- and I think Barbara mentioned this -- are the artillery and the helicopters and the counterbattery radar. This will allow them to hopefully suppress Russian artillery, which is a big advantage that Russia has, and move troops more quickly around the battlefield.

BASH: Retired Army Brigadier General Kevin Ryan, thank you so much for that important insight. I appreciate it.

RYAN: Thank you.

BASH: And Russia just sanctioned about 400 members of the U.S. Congress.

One of them, Congresswoman Kathleen Rice, joins me next. We're going to get her response to Putin and what she learned from a trip she just returned from in Eastern Europe.

And the suspect of the New York subway shooting spree making his first court appearance today. We're going to take you there live.

Plus, what to make of Elon Musk's $43 billion hostile takeover attempt of Twitter.

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BASH: Russia is retaliating against Washington, hitting nearly 400 members of Congress with sanctions after the U.S. blacklisted hundreds of Russian lawmakers last month.

Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Kathleen Rice. She is among the sanctioned lawmakers and also just got back from Poland, where nearly 2.7 million Ukrainians have crossed over the border into Poland since the war began.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining me.

So, what is your biggest takeaway of the trip that you took, the bipartisan trip that you took?

REP. KATHLEEN RICE (D-NY): Thank you, Dana.

As you said, it was a bipartisan trip. There were 10 of us from the House who traveled over there. And I think the most important message, the most important goal of this trip was to reaffirm our commitment not only to NATO, but to the E.U. and every single country who values democratic principles during this horrible aggression by Russia.

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And so I think it was important for all of us to speak from the same sheet of music. We were completely unified in how important it was for us to build an international coalition, together with members of NATO, member countries of NATO and the E.U.

And all of us understand how important it is for us to provide the lethal weaponry that we're providing to Ukraine, so they can fight this battle, which they have done beyond anyone's expectation, incredibly bravely -- they are so resilient -- but also understand how important it is for us to get humanitarian aid that is so desperately needed there.

When we were in Poland, we had the opportunity to go to the border and see how refugees coming from Ukraine were being processed. And these are just people who just -- who want to be home. They don't want to have to be refugees. And it's just a terrible sight to see.

But we also see how important that humanitarian aid is.

BASH: Yes.

And I actually saw you there in Poland when I was there last week. And one of the things that I sensed from talking to refugees is, they wanted to stay close to home. They wanted to stay in the region, which is in part why you see so many, almost three million of the refugees coming across the border into Poland.

I spoke with the mayor of Warsaw, the president of Poland. And what they were telling me is that the influx will eventually become unsustainable. And President Duda said to me: We need international support badly.

Is the U.S. providing enough aid to countries like Poland to help absorb these refugees?

RICE: Let me say that I -- on Poland and Romania -- we were also in Romania.

They are two countries taking in an enormous number of refugees. And we met with officials who are saying exactly what you said, which is: We're doing this now. And regular, everyday Poles are opening up their homes to accept Ukrainian refugees into their homes. But, at some point, there's going to be a breaking point.

And look, we're working very closely with a lot of the nongovernmental organizations, whether it's the World Food Program, the International Red Cross, to make sure that the humanitarian need gets where it is.

We have the high number of refugees, but also remember, Dana, that there are a lot of displaced, internally displaced people who are still in Ukraine and need the help there. And we have to get that humanitarian aid there as quickly as possible.

Congress has done its part in terms of appropriating money for -- that primarily is fed through these NGOs to get into Ukraine, but we have to do it better and we have to do it faster.

BASH: Yes, and these refugees, who are almost all women and children.

RICE: Yes.

BASH: The president declared this week that the atrocities under way in Ukraine constitute genocide. Does this or should this have any implications when it comes to policy? Should it trigger any changes towards the conflict inside the Biden administration and, more broadly, in the U.S.?

RICE: I think it just reinforces how important it is for us to provide the lethal aid that we are giving to the Ukrainians right now.

I know that they have their prosecutor general going around the country documenting the instances of war crimes. I mean, Dana, you have been there. You see the stories. It's so important that we educate the world about the atrocities.

These are not soldier-on-soldier combat, although that is happening. These are Russian soldiers specifically targeting civilians, and rapes and murders and torture that's going on. There will be a time for Putin and those who worked with him to be held to account.

But, right now, it's so important for us to help the Ukrainians be able to document all of these war crimes, because there will come a day when there will be accountability.

BASH: Right.

And, before I let you go, I want to ask about the fact that there is Finland and there is Sweden, both border countries with Russia, who have historically been I call it aggressively neutral, now getting very close to asking for admission to NATO, which was not even remotely on the table even just a few months ago.

Should that be expedited? And what are the ramifications of that?

RICE: Our final stop on this trip was in Brussels. And we met with NATO officials.

And this issue was raised. And Finland and Sweden are aggressively trying to get into NATO. And we were informed of their applications and this whole process is going to be expedited as quickly as possible.

Putin -- nothing upsets Putin more than NATO expanding right in his backyard. And if you look at what Ukraine did in trying to be -- to kind of avoid this conflict, they said, OK, we're not going to get involved in NATO. And what did Putin do? He invaded Ukraine.

So, if you look at what Finland and Sweden are trying to do right now -- and they are even -- they're right there -- their point is, guess what? We need the protection of NATO. And we're going to do it now.

[13:25:08]

And we should support that. And I'm happy that NATO officials were very aggressively -- they told us specifically that they were going to try to expedite that process as quickly as possible.

BASH: Congresswoman Kathleen Rice, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

RICE: Thank you for having me, Dana.

BASH: And two days after the terrifying attack in a Brooklyn subway, the suspect who called the cops himself appears in court.

Everything just wrapped up. And we're going to get you the latest next.

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