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Russian Warship Badly Damaged in Ukraine Missile Attack; U.S. Defense Official Says Russian Troops Who Retreated Appearing in Donbas; U.S. in Talks to Send Top Official to Ukraine in Show of Support; Alleged NYC Subway Gunman Held Without Bail, Did Not Enter Plea; Police Credit Teen Who Spotted NYC Subway Shooting Suspect. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 14, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:20]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Fifty days into Putin's war in Ukraine, and a new front is intensifying. The first Russian troops who withdrew from northern Ukraine have begun to now show up in the Donbas region of Ukraine. That's according to a senior U.S. Defense official.

It's the latest sign that Vladimir Putin's forces are about to launch a major assault in the east involving thousands of troops, with Russian leaders aiming for victory by early May. Now, satellite images show increasing numbers of Russian troops and armored vehicles pouring into that area and we know the terrain is more open.

CAMEROTA: So this video shows Ukrainian forces training here on flatter ground. This is in Luhansk. And this will be different than the urban warfare in the Kyiv area where Russian troops retreated. Today CIA Director Bill Burns warned that it is possible that Russia should could use low-yield nuclear weapons inside Ukraine if Putin continues to suffer setbacks on the battlefield.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: Given the potential desperation of President Putin and the Russian leadership, given the setbacks that they've faced so far militarily, none of us can take lightly the threat posed by a potential resort to tactical nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: But Director Burns added that right now the U.S. has not seen any evidence of that kind of deployment.

Ukrainians are scoring some victories. They have made headway, major headway in the battle at sea. The flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet is still burning at this hour after an explosion on Wednesday. Ukrainian forces say they hit the warship with a cruise missile. Russians admit to only a fire on board that has forced the crew's evacuation.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in CNN correspondent Matt Rivers in Lviv, in western Ukraine, along with CNN's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance.

Matthew Chance, to you first. You reported from this Russian warship in 2015. So how big of a blow is this to Russian forces?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's a really big blow because, as you mentioned, the ship, the Moskva, is the flagship of the Black Sea fleet. And it's not just of an important military value because it's a really important platform for weapons systems, it carries cruise missiles, it's nuclear capable, although there's no indication of course that there were nuclear weapons on board during this attack.

But crucially as well it's a platform which has a number of anti- aircraft systems on it. So it provides air cover to a large area around where it's deployed. We got on board the ship back in 2015 when the Moskva was deployed off the coast of Syria. And it was sent there with a blunt message by Vladimir Putin. The captain of the ship told me at the time that Putin himself ordered the Moskva to be sent to the coast of Syria after a Russian warplane had been shot down by the Turkish Air Force just the month before.

So it was designed and deployed to send a message that, you know, Russia would, you know, down any aircraft that threatened the security of its troops on the ground. And I expect it played a similar role in the Black Sea where it was, according to the Ukrainians, struck by two anti-ship Neptune missiles. And so whatever happened to it, a huge blow to the prestige and, you know, symbolically to the Russian Navy.

CAMEROTA: Matthew, it's so interesting to see you on that very ship, on board there.

Matt Rivers, so the first troops we know that left northern Ukraine have now begun appearing in the Donbas as predicted. So when do officials think this new phase could begin?

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they're looking at this as part of this new phase already beginning, Alisyn. I think what we're seeing is these troops, according to this U.S. Defense official, they were some of the first to leave northern Ukraine. They're now reappearing in the east, which is where we're expecting this new phase to begin. We're not talking about a huge number of troops yet according to this Defense official.

We're talking about some aviation support, command and control, some artillery units, but basically it seems, according to this official, that the Russians are pushing in capabilities that will then allow them to very quickly ramp up and support large numbers of other troops that are going to be coming in and launching that offensive.

But as we look at that, what's going on in the east, we're also keeping an eye on what Russia is saying about being willing to strike, quote, "decision-making centers" in Kyiv as a result of what Russia says are some recent attacks that Ukraine has launched across the border into Russia, both artillery strikes and alleged helicopter attacks.

Ukraine not specifically commenting on those attacks but basically accusing the Russians -- they say, you know, in the past, Russia had been willing to stage so-called false flag attacks to justify further action in Ukraine.

[14:05:02]

And that's what Ukrainian officials are saying might be going on here. But it is something that officials here in Ukraine are worried about, this idea that Russia could retaliate outside of just the east and maybe even target decision-making centers in places like Kyiv.

BLACKWELL: Matt Rivers, let's stay with you and what can you tell us about this video on Russian state TV of Ukrainians drawing down arms, going over with Russians? What do you know about it?

RIVERS: Well, I think the first thing we need to consider is the source. Right? This is Russian state media, not exactly the most authoritative source, the most trustworthy source. But what we're seeing on Russian state media is what the Russians are saying are basically Ukrainian soldiers giving up in Mariupol, basically throwing down their weapons and surrendering. And that would be highly significant if, in fact, that was the case.

Mariupol has been under siege by Russian troops for weeks now. And it is seemingly teetered on the brink of falling to Russian troops for a while. But the Ukrainians have held out there for weeks even as they have run out of ammunition, access to food, access to water, medical supplies. However, the Ukrainian side at this point saying that none of this is true. That the Ukrainians are still fighting, that Mariupol is still being contested.

But this is just further example of the difficulty of trying to verify this information when CNN doesn't have a team on the ground there, it is simply too dangerous to be there, we're not embedded with the Russian troops at this moment. So it's very difficult to verify exactly what is going on in Mariupol other than just knowing how catastrophic the damage has been and how difficult the fighting has been.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Understood. OK, Matthew Chance, Matt Rivers, thank you both.

So this afternoon, President Biden talking about plans to send a high- ranking member of his administration to Ukraine in a show of support.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House. Kaitlan, who will it be?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That remains to be seen. This trip, it's not fully clear it's actually going to materialize, but they are having discussions behind the scenes about sending someone, someone high-ranking from the Biden administration to Ukraine. And that comes after of course there were questions raised about whether or not President Biden would go or maybe Vice President Harris after you saw the British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, made a surprise trip there over the weekend.

Obviously it takes a lot to get a principal like that into a war zone, and that is something why right now the White House is basically saying it's not likely that President Biden or Vice President Harris will go at this time. But they have talked about maybe sending the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin or Secretary of State Tony Blinken. Those are two officials that they've really talked about the most.

But of course, getting someone there takes a lot because you can't just fly into the airport. Boris Johnson took a car, a helicopter, a train ride, eventually that took several hours to actually get into Kyiv. And so that's really been a big question about that discussion. But obviously, if they did send a high-ranking U.S. official to Ukraine at this time, it would be incredibly significant, it would be the first time anyone of that caliber has gone to Ukraine since the invasion started.

And so that would be a big part of that. And it would be a show of support, of course, in addition to what we're talking about with this military aid package that they're sending as well, talking about the physical support they're putting on the ground but also something more symbolic by having a trip like that.

BLACKWELL: All right, we'll see if that trip comes to fruition. But we know that the Biden administration is expanding the intelligence sharing with Ukraine, specifically on the Donbas region, Crimea as well. Tell us more about that.

COLLINS: Yes. CNN is told that over the last several weeks they've changed basically the guidelines for what it is, how you can share information, when you can share, what that information can look like to make it a little loose so they can continue sharing information with the Ukrainians, something they've been doing for several weeks now, but to share more information with them as what we are seeing on the ground is changing.

Because that's been a big thing that we've talked about with this latest aid package is that no longer are you seeing the Russians try to capture the capital of Kyiv, for example. They realized they could not do that, and so they've been moving this to the eastern region of Ukraine. The White House has said to prepare for a major ground offensive by Russian forces there. And so they're changing what they're sending them when it comes to weapons.

But they're also changing what's happening when it comes to sharing information because that can be obviously almost as valuable as sending that weaponry and there is telling them the intelligence that they have on what the Russians are doing. And of course as we know, that intelligence has been pretty good. That was the same intelligence that officials were making public when they were saying that they did believe Putin was preparing to invade, when other countries were saying they weren't quite sure he was at that point yet.

And so this is another aspect that it goes on top of this $800 million military aid package that we just talked about yesterday that President Biden has now authorized as well.

BLACKWELL: All right, Kaitlan Collins, for us at the White House. Kaitlan, thank you very much.

Joining us now is the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass.

Thank you so much for being back with us. Let's start with this potential -- early days of talks of a high-ranking official from the U.S. government going to Ukraine. The White House says likely not the president, the vice president. After that, the significance of the trip and does it matter who goes really, secretary of State or secretary of Defense?

[14:10:08]

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: It's symbols. I think the administration feels somewhat pressured to do it given that the prime minister of the U.K. and other European leaders have been there. But it's just that. It's a symbol. It's not going to affect anything materially on the ground in terms of the battle to come, or the sanctions or anything else.

I think it's a representation that the U.S. is committed to President Zelenskyy and Ukraine, but there's other more tangible ways. We've already made that clear.

CAMEROTA: Richard, let's talk about the battle to come and this onslaught that people are bracing for in the east of Ukraine. Do you think that Putin has changed his ultimate -- well, I don't know about ultimate, but his current goal of building a -- now the goal would be building a land bridge from Crimea to the Donbas and taking some portion of the eastern flank of Ukraine and then by May 9th calling it a victory of some kind and being done for the moment? Or do you think that there is still an effort to get Kyiv and take the whole country?

HAASS: Well, he's obviously, Alisyn, had to scale down his ambitions, not for a lack of ambition but for a lack of capability to realize them. This seems to be his plan for this phase. It's not obvious to me or anyone else he's necessarily going to succeed. If he were to succeed, then the question is whether that would just wet his appetite for more to use it as a base from which to attack and try to expand his control over other parts of the country.

It's also possible he gets push back and then the question is how he reacts to that. So this is very much in play. And quite honestly it could go in any number of directions. And my guess is he will make some decisions based in no small part upon what happens on the ground.

BLACKWELL: The president's characterization of what's happening in Ukraine as genocide, this is the second time that the president and the U.S. government have not been on the same page. The first one was when President Biden called Putin a war criminal. Is this strategic? Is it clumsy? Is it significant at all that the president believes that this is genocide, but the U.S. government has not made that classification and it's not changing any approach to the war? HAASS: To me, the biggest question is what purpose does it serve? We

can have a philosophical, legal debate about whether what the Russians have done to date is technically genocide. They've clearly committed any number of acts that fall under the category of war criminality. But then the question is why talk about this in that way? Does this make it easier to bring the war to an end?

Does it make it more or less likely that Mr. Putin will hold off on any form of escalation? Does this pave the way to a negotiation or reduce whatever slim chances there are? I'll be honest with you, I don't see the utility of doing this, and don't get me wrong, it's not what the Russians are doing. It's not that these are not horrific things. My question now is how does it serve U.S. strategic and policy purposes, and I'll be honest with you, I don't see how it does.

CAMEROTA: Richard, what do you think about Sweden and Finland now considering applying to be a part of NATO after being, you know, famously neutral? And if Vladimir Putin's goal was to isolate Ukraine and weaken NATO, then it has backfired. But just tell us what your thoughts are as Sweden and Finland make this calculus.

HAASS: You know, as you say, it's one of the 86 ways Mr. Putin's war, and it is his war, let's be honest about it, has backfired, has been counterproductive from his point of view. NATO is far more dynamic, far more robust as an alliance than it was just, what, seven weeks ago. The idea that these countries that for the entire Cold War stayed outside the principal Western security framework and are now contemplating going in and going in soon.

Again, it's right up there, say, with Germany's shift on defense spending and sanctions in terms of radical changes Mr. Putin has brought about in a relatively short amount of time. So when the tally sheet of this war is ultimately drawn up, obviously things like this will figure significantly, what I would call the strategic worsening of Russia's position in Europe and the world.

BLACKWELL: Vladimir Putin said today that he's going to continue to shift the energy focus to the south and the east. And we know that Europe needs, especially liquified natural gas from Russia. If he follows through with that, what's the repercussion of that or is this just a threat and he still needs that money from the West? Where do you take that threat from Putin?

HAASS: Well, as you correctly said, he very much needs this money.

[14:15:01]

Oil is quite fungible. Oil can be sent anywhere and he's already selling it to China, to India, and other places. So my hunch is he'll be more than happy to do it if Europe shuts Russia off as they've been signaling today. Gas is far less easy to turn around. You need pipeline systems or you need terminals to export and import gas in its liquid form. In that case, we're probably talking about years for Russia to find a significant substitute.

They're going to have to lay a lot of pipeline or build some terminals, and so forth. So I think coal and oil are near-term energy sources that Russia could move things quickly. Gas is a far longer- term thing both for Europe and for Russia.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador Richard Haass, great to see you. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: So the alleged gunman in the Brooklyn subway shooting makes his first court appearance. We've got new details there.

CAMEROTA: And the family of a black man shot and killed during a traffic stop is speaking out after newly released police videos show what happened. We have a live update ahead.

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[14:20:27]

BLACKWELL: The suspect in Tuesday's New York subway shooting appeared in federal court just a few moments ago. Frank James did not enter a plea. He will be held without bail. James was arrested yesterday after he called a police tip line himself during a 30-hour manhunt. He is facing a federal terrorism charge for the attack that left 29 people injured.

CAMEROTA: CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us live now. So, Brynn, what happened in court today?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, Victor, like you said, this is just the initial court appearance Frank James made for that single terror related charge. And as you guys said, he did not mention a plea. But the prosecution really took the chance here to kind of lay out some of the aspects of their case against him as they asked that he be held without bail. And they mentioned that they believed James premeditated this attack, that he carefully planned it, and then of course that he caused terror.

And the judge agreed he will remain behind bars. We did get to hear a little bit from James inside the courtroom. He only said that -- acknowledged the fact that he read the criminal complaint against him. But his federally appointed attorneys did come out afterwards and didn't take any questions from the press but did have something to say. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIA EISNER-GRYNBERG, ATTORNEY FOR FRANK JAMES: What happened in the New York City subway system on Tuesday was a tragedy. It is a blessing that it was not worse. We are all still learning about what happened on that train, and we caution against a rush to judgment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: And that attorney also requesting a medical attention to James because he has an issue with a leg and also a psych evaluation which the judge also agreed to.

BLACKWELL: Brynn, did you learn anything about the possible motive or if there were plans for other attacks in court today?

GINGRAS: Not in court today. Listen, they did like I said tick through the evidence that they've been building up against him. And we've learned a lot of this throughout the investigation. Right? We know about all of those YouTube videos that were online stretching for several days before this attack where he was talking about violence, where he was making, sort of listing his grievances. So these are all things that are being certainly looked at at this point. Also, remember, he had a stockpile of weapons inside a storage facility in Philadelphia, which of course was raided by the FBI.

Keep in mind, guys, the investigation is still ongoing. We know that the priority for federal and NYPD law enforcement altogether was to get this guy, get him behind bars. Now it's really the grunt work of going through all of that evidence that they've collected in several different states and really looking through those YouTube videos that have now been taken down trying to figure out if there's a motive and even more trying to see if they can actually bring more charges against him.

BLACKWELL: Brynn Gingras at federal court for us. Brynn, thank you very much.

Now New York City Police they are crediting a teenager for helping in Frank James' arrest. Jack Griffin was on a field trip at the time and he captured these photos of the suspected shooter just hours before he was taken into custody.

CAMEROTA: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz spoke to the 17-year-old, he joins us now. This is quite a field trip. I mean, more educational I would say than the school had intended.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, he's hoping these photos win him some kind of an award. Look, the school is talking about him. His teachers are talking about him. Everyone is obviously very proud just how gutsy he was and to have this presence of mind to see this individual and really identifying him almost immediately as he was sitting on this bench just looking ahead, not doing anything.

He was shocked to see him, but he started thinking, OK, what can I do? And the first thing he thought was to pull the camera around his neck and he started taking photos. Take a listen to what he told me this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK GRIFFIN, SPOTTED SUBWAY SHOOTING SUSPECT ON STREET: Right here from about 20 feet away, I saw Frank James sitting down at that bench over there. And so I got out my camera, and I quickly took a photo of the street, and that's when he noticed that he was being photographed and he started walking away. It's crazy. I was looking for things to shoot and I found probably one of the most wanted people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PROKUPECZ: Yes, so they were down on the Lower East Side as part of a class project to shoot photos. Keep this in mind, guys, this happened almost three hours before he was captured. So around 10:30 in the morning, he sees him sitting there. He does notify the police. They didn't get back to him right away. It was later that night that they finally spoke to him.

[14:25:03]

But they did tell him, the NYPD, the two officers that showed up at his house, that his information was helpful because they were able to zero in on the location down on the Lower East Side, in that area, where they thought they might be able to find Frank James.

CAMEROTA: That's good. So does that mean he gets the reward?

PROKUPECZ: So that's the question his mother keeps asking me. You know, he's 17. His mother is so proud of him. You know, I got a chance to speak to her this morning and last night. I found him through Twitter. And he's very happy to talk because he thinks it's important that people do the right thing. And if they see something, they say something. You know, it's really also remarkable how many people saw Frank James and didn't call the police.

I was talking to people in this area, one of the locals there where I was this morning, said that she saw him, but she didn't really think to do anything. And then by the time she did realize it was him, he was already gone. So I don't know. Look, some people perhaps were afraid. I don't know. But his mother certainly -- this kid's mother is so, so happy that he did the right thing. The school is very happy. His teachers. You know, he's hoping he gets something. But he's happy to tell his story.

CAMEROTA: That's great. Well, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for bringing that story to us.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Shimon.

CAMEROTA: Really, really interesting story.

BLACKWELL: All right. The first Russian troops that left northern Ukraine arrived in the Donbas ahead of the expected military push in the east. Now it's putting added pressure on the Biden administration to get aid to Ukrainian troops faster. The Pentagon now admits that they are mindful of the clock. And we'll talk about it.

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