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Pentagon Wants To Get New Military Aid To Ukraine As Fast As Possible; Ukraine Claims It Sank Key Russian Warship, Kremlin Denies It; Pentagon Gives Update On War In Ukraine, Explosion On Russian Ship; Videos Show Fatal Police Shooting Of Michigan Man During Struggle After Traffic Stop; Former Trump Aide To Appear In Front of 1/6 Committee. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 14, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:19]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: We're just getting this in. France announced that its embassy in Ukraine would very soon return to the capital, Kyiv. Now, the French embassy had been moved to the western Ukrainian city of Lviv earlier in March.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Meanwhile, a senior U.S. defense official says the Pentagon is working to get the latest $80 million worth of military aid to Ukraine as quickly as possible. And added that getting a package of that size overseas will take many shipments.

BLACKWELL: The Pentagon is also figuring out how to train Ukrainians on some of these new defense systems.

Joining us now is retired Army Colonel Liam Collins. He served as an executive officer for the U.S. senior defense adviser to Ukraine from 2016 to 2018 where he helped to train Ukrainians.

Colonel, welcome back.

You are the perfect person to ask this leading question here.

We see some of what's part of this latest tranche of military hardware support. You helped train. Where in this environment, can that happen? Can you train them with U.S. troops in Ukraine or do they come to Poland? Where does it happen?

COL. LIAM COLLINS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I think now they have a trained force. That's what we worked on over the last six years. They're trained and ready.

Now, it's just getting equipment over to them that's been attrited, right, over the last five or six war, right? Equipment, attriting their weapon systems, their ammunition. It's a matter of getting these assets replaced to them.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, so Ukrainians are theoretically trained on everything they're going to be receiving? COLLINS: Not necessarily everything. But, I mean, some of the drones,

for example, we are doing some training here before we sent those over. The helicopters, right? That's a helicopter they're familiar with. And the howitzers.

Those may be something they have to spend time with, but it's not necessarily as technically sophisticated as some other things. We'll try to get them equipment that they're going to be familiar with.

But if they're not familiar with it, that does take time. And it's not just as simple as rushing it out to the front.

CAMEROTA: Colonel, I want to talk about a couple of places where it appears the Ukrainian army or soldiers are making strides. So let's look at a few of these things.

Here's this warship. This was off of Crimea. This satellite image was taken in early April. We can't get a satellite image now because the weather is not cooperating.

However Ukrainians say -- and the Russians actually agree -- that that ship has been moved out because, the Ukrainians say, their missile hit it. The Russians say there was a fire onboard and they had to evacuate.

So that's one place. The next place is in Kharkiv. Ukrainians were able to destroy this bridge as this Russian convoy was trying to cross it.

How big of victories are these? Are these symbolic? What's the significance of these?

COLLINS: I mean, that Russian ship, that's their largest ship in the Black fleet. It's a very big, political significant event. And sort of a moral victory for them to take that ship out that Russia thought was completely safe operating in the Black Sea.

Is it going to be something that will turn the tide? No, but it makes it much harder to conduct an amphibious assault if they want to do that in Odessa without this ship there.

Again, whether the Ukrainians did it or if it was a fire that caused a catastrophic chain reaction on the ship itself, either one is damming from a Russian perspective.

Because they either can't maintain control of their own ship or it shows that the Ukrainians have the capability to take down their biggest ship in the Black Sea.

BLACKWELL: Colonel, we know the focus is on the eastern part of the country here.

But we heard from the Russians that if there's another attack on Russian territory -- remember there was that fuel depot that was hit by helicopter attack in Belgorod -- that Russians say they will now attack decision-making centers, including possibly the capitol, Kyiv. [14:35:09]

How seriously should that threat be taken? There have been many threats from Russians that have not come to fruition. What do you think about that one?

COLLINS: Yes, this is purely an idle threat. In the 2008 war in Georgia, that was the first thing they tried to go after was command- and-control centers.

Same thing in 2014 during the illegal annexation of Crimea. Tried severing the communications systems, right, those command structures in the capital.

This is not new. Russia has been trying to hit them. Up until this point, they've been unsuccessful.

It's an idle threat to try to prevent or deter Ukraine from conducting any kind of cross-border attacks.

But Russia -- this has been a primary target for Russia all along. They just haven't been able to hit them.

CAMEROTA: Colonial Liam Collins, thank you for walking us through all of this.

Family attorney, Ben Crump, says the police officer who shot and killed Patrick Lyoya did not follow his training. We have more on that and what the family is saying next.

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BLACKWELL: Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby giving an update on the war. Let's listen.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We don't have perfect visibility on exactly what happened.

We do believe there was a significant explosion on this cruiser, the "Moskva," of the Slava Class of cruisers in the Russian Navy. We do believe that that explosion caused a significant fire, which, as of this morning, was still raging aboard the shipment.

We do assess that at least some of the crew members evacuated the ship and were placed aboard other Russian Navy ships. I can't tell you if it's the whole crew. We just have assessment that some crew were evacuated from the ship.

And we are -- this morning, we had assessed that the ship was under way under its own power. We are no longer able to make that certainty today, this afternoon. We're not exactly sure that the ship is actually still able to make its own way.

So that's the update. That's the best we can provide you in terms of what we know and feel comfortable speaking to. As for the impact on the Russian Navy, that is a little difficult to

know with great certitude. They have and have had anywhere from a dozen to two dozen ships operating in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov since the beginning of this invasion.

They are -- they have ports, as you know, on the Black Sea. So they historically have operated there.

It's -- it would be difficult to be able to tell you that this one ship being out of commission, what exactly the impact is going to have.

The reason I say that is because the -- their naval component here to the war has been fairly limited to two things. One, cruise missile strikes inside Ukraine. And, two, replenishment and resupply of their efforts in the south.

[14:40:05]

Now they've only conducted one amphibious landing and that was on an uncontested stretch of beach near the Sea of Azov. And they hadn't really made any concerted naval efforts toward Odessa. So I guess it remains to be seen what the impact will be.

Again, that said, this is a cruiser. They only have three in this class. It's a ship that is roughly 600 feet long. It has a crew of almost 400 -- I'm sorry -- more than 400, almost 500 sailors on board.

It's basically designed for air defense. That's what this ship is designed to do, not unlike our own cruisers.

So, it's going to have an impact on their capabilities certainly in the near-term. Whether it has an impact on their naval capabilities in the long-term is just -- it's just unclear right now.

We don't have -- as much as I know we'd like to have and you'd like us to have. We just don't have a better, clearer sense of the damage done and what impact it's going to have to the ship's future here in the near-term.

Whether she can and will be repaired and put back into service or not, we just don't know.

David?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Earlier today, a defense official said that other ships in the Black Sea had, since this explosion, moved further away from the coast for whatever reason.

Does that change -- the fact that these other ships moved further away from the coast, does that change their ability to launch cruise missiles against targets inside Ukraine or are they still in range?

KIRBY: It -- I wouldn't -- I wouldn't take away from this that that will have a dramatic impact on their able to launch surface cruise missiles into Ukraine. They have a long range, as you know, David. And the fact that some of

them may have moved away from the northern Black sea and the coast of Odessa doesn't mean they're completely incapable of maneuvering to other parts of the Black Sea and lunching cruise missiles.

I don't think we'd be willing to go that far just yet.

Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We hear about the airspace still being contested. The Sea of Azov, northern Black Sea, is that considered contested? Is it in Russian hands? What sort of the definition of that?

KIRBY: You mean the maritime environment?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The maritime environment.

KIRBY: I think -- you would be going too far if you said -- or we were to say that the northern areas of the Black Sea were not contested, that the Russians had freedom of maneuver completely inside the Black Sea.

I think that would be going too far. For a couple of reasons. One, the Ukrainian Navy, though small, still has operating craft.

Two, they do have coastal defense capabilities. You saw the Brits giving them some coastal defense missile capabilities. We, in the latest package, are offering them some coastal defense -- unmanned surface capability.

And, three, the issue of mines. We know that mines have been a factor, particularly south of Odessa. And some of those mines could be free floating. Therefore, not moored to a specific area and, therefore, could affect a Navy's ability to freely maneuver in that maritime space.

So while they certainly -- from just a purely naval perspective, the Russians have superiority in the Black Sea to the Ukrainians, more ships, more fire power, certainly more naval capability.

We would not assess that they have achieved, you know, complete freedom of movement.

So, again, they have used the maritime environment to strike inland. They have used the maritime environment to assault the mainland in terms of an amphibious assault.

And they have used the maritime environment to intimidate and, in some cases, to try to -- we think, in some cases try to pin down Ukrainian ground forces near Odessa.

So they still have quite a bit of naval capability available to them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just a quick follow-up. When the embassy in Kyiv was moved to Lviv and then into Poland, the Marines moved out as well?

KIRBY: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are they still with the contingent of U.S. diplomats in Poland? Have they dispersed?

I guess what I'm getting at is the French have said they will open their embassy in Kyiv.

KIRBY: Yes.

&: If the U.S. were to make that decision, are the Marines with their contingent able to move back pretty quickly to Kyiv or how does that work?

KIRBY: I can't say definitively how many of the Marine security detachment is with the now displaced embassy personnel. I suspect there's still some physical security being provided to them, even though they're in Poland.

[14:45:00]

And I don't want to get ahead of the State Department's decision about their embassy in Kyiv and if, and/or when and how they might think about reacting. That's something for the State Department to speak to.

I would just tell you that, without getting into the hypotheticals here, the Marines are very proud of their security responsibilities with respect to embassies and posts all round the world and support to our diplomats.

And that would be an active part of any consideration of bringing an embassy back up to speed. It would be force protection and security for diplomats.

And clearly, the Department of Defense would be a part of that discussion. But there's been no decisions made.

Tara?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thanks, John.

Of the few cruise missiles that have been launched by the Russian Navy into Ukraine, can you tell us, did these originate from the "Moskva" or some of them originate from the "Moskva"? And I have a couple of others.

KIRBY: I couldn't tell you for sure. I mean, this is a -- this is a cruiser by definition. It can do lots of things, but they're basically an air defense platform.

So typically, they're designed for air defense purposes. But I'm not suggesting that she wouldn't have offensive capabilities.

We know -- I would tell you that we do know that some, not a lot, but some cruise missile attacks inside Ukraine have emanated from surface combatants in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. I couldn't tell you whether the "Moskva" participated in that and how much.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And just two others.

On the U.S. visas the U.S. will be providing to Ukraine, will these unmanned surface vehicles be armed and what will their purpose -- or what will they be able to provide Ukraine?

KIRBY: They are designed to help Ukraine with its coastal defense needs. And I think I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to get into the specific capabilities.

But they're designed to help Ukraine with its coastal defense needs.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the next tranche of $800 million goes in, is there any concern that because these are more advanced weapons, Russia may contest those supply lines? Have those supply lanes remained uncontested to this point?

KIRBY: All I can do is tell you what we're seeing today. And flights are still going into transshipment sites in the region. And ground movement is still occurring of this material inside Ukraine.

That every single day there are security assistance, weapons and material and support equipment that is getting into Ukrainian hands.

And as we've said before, we'll keep doing that as much as we can, as fast as we can.

There have been no -- we have not seen any Russian efforts to interdict that flow. So we're going to keep doing it.

As you know, we don't talk about the specifics of that flow so that we can preserve a measure of operational security. And we constantly look at it every day, monitor it, change it, adapt it as needed.

CAMEROTA: OK, we've been listening to Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby talking about what we were just talking about at the wall there about this Russian warship.

He says that they have been able to assess that there was a major explosion onboard and some crew members had evacuated. But he does not have a lot of visibility into what caused it or the state of that warship is now.

Joining us now, we have CNN Pentagon correspondent, Oren Liebermann, and retired Army Colonel Liam Collins.

Colonel, just what we were discussing, which is something happened onboard that Russian warship. Something happened that made them withdraw from the coast and possibly other military ships as well.

But I think because of the weather, as we were discussing in those satellite images, the Pentagon doesn't know exactly how bad it is on that warship or if it's still operational.

Colonel, can you hear me? COLLINS: Yes. Yes. I mean, it's a significant blow to them. And

they're pulling back. Whether it's incompetence by the Russians or an attack by the Ukrainians, it's clearly pulling back. And this is a blow to them.

As John Kirby mentioned, this is -- other Russian ships are pulling further off the coast. It may not affect their able to launch missile strikes on to the mainland.

But we're seeing that Russia is having a reaction to this, which would indicate Russia believes that it was a missile that struck it and not just a fire. Otherwise, they wouldn't be moving ships back.

BLACKWELL: It's an embarrassment either way, whether you're losing this asset, potentially losing it because of a fire or if it's a missile.

Oren, to you.

The question is, how much will this impact the capabilities of the Russian forces?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This is one of the questions that John Kirby was talking about. In the near-term, it certainly has an impact.

This is a ship used for air defense, not only in defense of itself but in defense of the one dozen or two dozen ships the Russian Navy has in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.

So it affects their ability to conduct that. And that may be very well why you're seeing Russian ships, not only just this ship that was likely heading to port to refit and repair, but other ships pulling farther away from the Ukrainian coast.

[14:50:09]

But in the long term, the Russian Navy has other ships there. This was an interesting point that John Kirby talked about for a little bit there in that the Russian Navy has superiority in that domain.

It has more ships. It has more powerful ships. And it has more capabilities.

But the Ukrainians, as we've seen, not only in the Black Sea but as we've seen throughout this entire conflict, have used their, I would say, interior capabilities to their advantage.

They have been able to keep the fight going in the maritime domain using their much smaller Navy, using, apparently, they say, their Neptune cruise missiles.

And using their other options, their other weapons to keep the fight going on, to keep posing a problem to Russia's superior forces. And that has been a big story of the Ukrainian resistance so far. So even if it's one strike on one ship or, as the Russians want us to

believe, one fire on one ship, it's still a very big problem in the short term for the Russian Navy here.

BLACKWELL: Oren Liebermann for us at the Pentagon.

Colonel Collins, thank you for staying with us.

Former Trump presidential aide, Stephen Miller, is expected to appear before the January 6th committee. We'll have new details on that. Stay with us.

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[14:55:59]

CAMEROTA: Another fatal police shooting of an unarmed black man is igniting controversy, this time in Michigan. And 26-year-old Patrick Lyoya was killed earlier this month after a traffic stop in Grand Rapids.

Police there just released several videos showing the incident from multiple angles.

We have a warning for you. This video is disturbing. It's hard to watch.

BLACKWELL: Now this begins with an officer stopping Lyoya, the officer says, for improper vehicle registration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: No, no, no. Stop, stop. Put your hands -- stop! (INAUDIBLE)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: You see there's a struggle here. Both of them holding onto this taser. A short time later, Lyoya was shot in the head.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is live in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for us where there's a news conference with the family happening now.

Omar, what are you learning from this? What do they have to say?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, this is really the first time we've heard publicly from the family of Patrick Lyoya since the videos of the shooting were released.

And we just heard moments ago from the father of Patrick. And I want to summarize a little of what he said.

He once said, "I didn't know in America there could be an execution."

That's how the family has characterized what they have seen play out on video up until this point.

He also said that Patrick was his life and, as Patrick's life ended so, too, has his as a father. That's how he feels at this moment.

The mother spoke afterwards. This is a family that fled from the Republic of Congo back in 2014. And she said they ran from war and are surprised that here, of all places, her son was killed by a bullet.

Now we've also been hearing from the family attorney. And throughout the recounting of this and the description of this, that happened in early April, they have been in tears.

Because, as you can imagine, at the center of all of this news and these protests and this investigation, this is a family grieving over the loss of one of their own.

Now Benjamin Crump is the attorney that is -- one of the attorneys, I should say, that represents this family.

The way he characterized this, was this began as a traffic stop and ended with the use of a deadly force.

Take a listen to more of what he had to say as part of this press conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF PATRICK LYOYA: When you think about George Floyd and other atrocities by police, you can only imagine what was going through Patrick's mind as he tried to get away from this officer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And just for context, you heard the family's translator as they primarily speak Swahili.

But of course, on the investigation side, the investigation continues at the state level to try and figure out if this officer was justified in pulling his weapon or if he crossed the line -- Victor and Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: We'll obviously stay on this.

Omar Jimenez, thank you for your reporting.

So today, former Trump White House adviser, Stephen Miller, is set to appear before the House committee investigating the January 6th investigation.

BLACKWELL: Miller is under subpoena. He resisted attempts to appear before the committee earlier.

The House panel said that Miller spread misinformation about the election and pushed officials to change the results.

CNN's congressional correspondent, Ryan Nobles, is with us now. Ryan Miller's interview comes after President Trump reportedly

authorized the former White House lawyer to testify to this committee. What do lawmakers want to know from these witnesses?

[14:59:53]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, yesterday, we know that two members of the White House counsel's office during the Trump administration, Patrick Philbin and Pat Cipollone, did sit for what they describe as informal interviews with the January 6th Select Committee yesterday.

But what is significant about that is they did so only after the approval of President Trump.