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States Suing to Block Title 42 Rollback; Ukrainians Living in Fear Amidst Attacks; Oksana Pokalchuk is Interviewed about Evacuations from Ukraine; Harry and Meghan Visit Queen. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired April 15, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Title 42. This is a border control policy. It began during the Trump administration that stopped many migrants from seeking asylum in the U.S. based on the pandemic. That restriction, as the pandemic has waned, is set to end May 23rd. Some moderates worry that will lead to a massive migrant surge at the southern border.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins me now with more.

So, what exactly does this lawsuit allege? What's the argument?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, a couple things. One, that it is going to cause undue harm to the states because migrants are going to be released into the United States in some cases instead of being turned away as they were under this pandemic authority, and that the administration didn't follow a notice and comment period before they decided to terminate the order.

And also interesting, it includes comments from members of President Joe Biden's own party who criticized this decision, including, for example, Senator Joe Manchin who called it, quote, a frightening decision to end this authority.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: And so the states in this case are looking for a court to block the administration from terminating this. And this is really what the administration is contending with, the political fallout, now this lawsuit with the big question of whether a court decides to block it before May 23rd.

SCIUTTO: Well, there's always a question of, can you continue to use the pandemic as justification for this. But what happens if the administration loses this case?

ALVAREZ: Well, it's very possible Title 42 continues and the administration, in that case, can say that they had tried to terminate it, but a court ultimately decided that they had to continue.

SCIUTTO: Right.

ALVAREZ: That is going to be the big question going into the next few weeks in what this court decides. SCIUTTO: Interesting. Something to follow closely.

Priscilla Alvarez, thanks very much.

Bianna.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, straight ahead, CNN is on the front lines as innocent Ukrainians take cover from constant attacks. How this is jeopardizing the humanitarian effort, that's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:20]

GOLODRYGA: Ukrainian officials say there has been heavy shelling along almost the entire front line in the Donetsk region. Much of the area is enduring constant bombardment and now civilians are paying the price.

SCIUTTO: They have been a consistent target of the Russian attack since the very beginning of this invasion. And despite daily evacuations out in the east, many still unable to believe. Some choosing to stay in the midst of it.

CNN's Clarissa Ward takes us through a town near the front line where innocent people are living in fear every day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The town of Avdiivka is no stranger to war. Eight years this has been the front line of Ukraine's battle with Russian-backed separatists. People here are used to shelling. They have never experienced anything like this.

A missile can be heard overhead, as an emotional man approaches us.

They smashed the old part of town, he says.

As we talk, the artillery intensifies.

WARD (on camera): I told him it's better to go home now because there's a lot of shelling. And he said there's more shelling where he lives.

WARD (voice over): As Russia prepares a major offensive in the east, front line towns like Avdiivka are getting pummeled.

WARD (on camera): So, you can hear constant bombardment. This is the bomb shelter down here. But you can see this building has already been hit.

WARD (voice over): Volunteer Igor Golativ (ph) spends his days visiting the elderly and disabled. Today he is checking in on 86-year- old Lydia (ph). Petrified and alone, he has yet to find an organization willing to come and evacuate her. When there's no electricity and it's so dark and there's shelling, she says, you can't imagine how scary it is.

She tells us she recites prayers to get through the night.

I never imagined that my end would be like this, she says. You can't even die here because there's no one to provide a burial ceremony.

For Igor, it is agony not to be able to do more.

I promise you, he says, I will help you to be evacuated.

As we leave, Lydia is reluctant to say good-bye. It is terrifying to live through this time. To do it alone is torture.

It's so nice to see real people, she says. Probably it's going to get worse.

A prediction all but certain to come true as a second Russian offensive draws near.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Lydia's tears and fear, just a reminder of what so many in that besieged country are experiencing and going through right now.

Our thanks to Clarissa Ward.

Well, let's bring in the executive director of Amnesty International Ukraine, Oksana Pokalchuk.

Oksana, thank you so much for joining us and for all the work that you're doing to help people like Lydia there.

As you listened to Clarissa's report, what can you tell us about the situation and the challenges for so many trying to flee the scene there?

OKSANA POKALCHUK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL UKRAINE: The situation is really quite challenging because there are problems with evacuation on each stage.

[09:40:09]

Roads are broken. They're damaged. There's shell fire and ongoing air strikes.

Moreover, we know that so far the biggest problem, of course, with old people and people with disabilities, because they need more support in transportation and (INAUDIBLE) transportation. And, be honestly, that is -- that is a big challenge for the government and for the non- governmental sector because there are a lot of efforts from people, but the lack of just physical support, you know, in vehicles, because we need special vehicles, we need special trains and we need special equipment to do this.

GOLODRYGA: As the fighting there intensifies, I'm just curious, what is the fate of humanitarian corridors in the days and weeks ahead? I know 2,500 people were evacuated through Ukrainians -- from Ukrainian cities yesterday, but what does that look like in the days and weeks ahead?

POKALCHUK: So, situation is getting, I would say, a little bit better than it was from the very beginning of this -- I mean like two or three weeks ago the situation was not that good. Now it's getting better on the one hand in some territories. But in other territories we see -- we still more entering (ph) and documenting ongoing shell fire on civilians who try to evacuate.

So, the situation is in the -- on the (INAUDIBLE) territory states, more or less better, and it's becoming more and more possible for people to leave, even, you know, to have -- to have this couple of powers of silent for both sides to have -- to give the possibility for people to flee.

But I cannot say the situation is good. It's still -- we still get information about killed people during their attempts to flee from occupied or just dangerous territories.

GOLODRYGA: As you continue to try to help as many people as possible, the numbers are just astronomical. I think we're approaching, if we're not already, at 5 million refugees that have fled the country. Over 7.1 million people have been internally displaced alone.

And just the cost this is having, the human toll, regardless of when this war ends and how it ends, I was struck by comments made by President Zelenskyy in a recent interview, I believe it was with "The Atlantic" just today, and here's what he said. He said, he feels viscerally what so many Ukrainians feel. There will be no complete victory for people who lost their children, relatives, husbands, wives, parents. That's what I mean, he said. They will not feel the victory, even when our territories are liberated.

What is your response to that? I'm still a little bit shaken, having watched Clarissa's piece, and just to see an 86-year-old woman thinking Clarissa is the last person that she will see alive. How do you take all of this in?

POKALCHUK: So your question is if -- how these -- how these people will feel? Or, I mean --

GOLODRYGA: How these people will feel, how do you feel?

POKALCHUK: I never would -- I never thought that I would be -- have such a complicated feeling inside, inside myself. And what I see from civil society and, I mean, not only civil society, from the whole population of Ukraine, that on one hand we see enormous solidarity, and, you know, this willingness to support each other, people who don't know each other, they still, you know, doing so much to protect, to support, to have a QA (ph), to give food, to, I mean, to give medical care, and that's a lot.

Moreover, we see tremendous support from international community, which is -- which is a lot. And it give -- it give, you know, that feeling that we will -- we have -- we might have a future. But on the other hand, the level of emotions that people in Ukraine are now -- are now experiencing is something we never experienced before. And my biggest concern is that what will be in the future, because what I -- what I see that we, as a -- as Ukrainians, we have to, you know, somehow deal with this angry, deal with this aggression inside ourselves and deal with this anxiety on the other hand.

[09:45:07]

And to recover it and to continue living without having this hatred (ph) inside ourselves. And I don't know how -- how it will be possible. So I think it's very much about, of course, government and, of course, in (INAUDIBLE) sector, you know, to work with Ukrainian society to find the new ways of living, new ways of thinking, of who we are.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

POKALCHUK: Because I don't think that it's a good idea to be Ukrainians like not Russians.

GOLODRYGA: Right.

POKALCHUK: You know, we have to go out from this narrative. We have to create a new narrative of who we are based on this emotions that we now experiencing.

GOLODRYGA: It will -- it will no doubt take a lot of rebuilding, both physically and emotionally, for millions of Ukrainians there.

Oksana Pokalchuk, thank you for everything you're doing.

POKALCHUK: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Jim.

SCIUTTO: The courage, the perseverance of those people, we should note it every day, and we're seeing it every day in Ukraine.

Still ahead, as questions swirl around the health of Queen Elizabeth, Prince Harry and Meghan make an unannounced trip to the U.K. We're live from London, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:48]

GOLODRYGA: Right now, more than 150 people are hurt following clashes between Palestinians and Israelis at a key holy site in Jerusalem. Dozens of people were taken to the hospital with injuries from rubber bullets, stun grenades and beatings.

SCIUTTO: The al-Aqsa mosque is one of the holiest sites in Islam.

CNN's Hadas Gold joins us now from Jerusalem on what is a day of significance for all three of the city's religions, Judaism, Islam, Christian. Hadas, can you tell us how these clashes, which we have seen before at

al-Aqsa, how they started?

SCIUTTO: Not -- not hearing. We're going to try to fix that and we will get her -- we will get her back.

Meanwhile, another story we're following this morning, Prince Harry and his wife, Meghan, made a surprise visit, a secret visit, in fact, to Queen Elizabeth this week. The first time the couple has returned to the U.K. together in two years.

GOLODRYGA: Now, the visit comes just ahead of the queen's 96th birthday and amid concerns about the monarch's health.

CNN's Nada Bashir is live in London with more.

So, Nada, what more do we know about the surprise visit?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, what we've heard from the couple's spokesperson is they made that stop here in the U.K. to visit the queen in Windsor on their way to The Hague, where they will be attending the Invictus Games. Now, of course, that is a very important event for Prince Harry. He is the founder of the Invictus games. And many will remember the couple made their first public appearance at the 2017 games in Toronto. So, certainly, a special event for the couple.

But, of course, they did make that stop to meet with the queen. As you mentioned there, it's the first time the couple have returned together to the U.K. since 2020, in January, when they made that decision to step back as senior members of the royal family. So, very significant there, although Prince Harry, despite the family coming under some intense scrutiny over that decision, has said in recent weeks that he has maintained contact with the queen, his family now based in California, often taking part in video calls with the queen herself.

But, of course, as you did mention there, there are some concerns around the queen's health. We have the Easter holidays just here in the U.K. Easter Sunday, typically an important holiday for the queen. She would typically in attending the Sunday service in Windsor. She has now made the decision not to go to that Sunday service, although other family members will be attending.

And there are concerns around her health. We've seen her in recent engagements opting to use a cane, suggesting some perhaps mobility issues there. She has expressed that she has felt tired and exhausted after a bout of COVID in February. So certainly some concerns there.

And all eyes will be on the royal family ahead of the jubilee coming up in a few weeks.

GOLODRYGA: Nada Bashir, outside of Buckingham Palace on a beautiful, sunny day there in London, thank you.

Well, we also want to take a moment to send our well-wishes to CNN's senior U.S. correspondent Richard Roth. He is now recovering after a successful kidney transplant, which is thanks in part to a donor from right here at our company.

SCIUTTO: It's such great news. Roth is a beloved member of this team, and for a long time. He's been at CNN since the day the network was launched in 1980. He's been covering the U.N. specifically for nearly 30 years. Check him out there. So, the spokesman as well, who he knows well, the spokesman for the U.N. secretary general had some kind words for him from the podium yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANE DUJARRIC, SPOKESMAN FOR U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: I spoke to him a short while ago. He's in good spirits. His usual, booming voice is coming back. And I think we all -- you all share with me sending all great, great thoughts and positive thoughts to Richard as he recovers and we -- I even hope to have him back in this room asking questions soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Such great news.

GOLODRYGA: Well, that speaks volumes.

SCIUTTO: For sure. I mean, listen, we've been rooting for him for some time. He'd been looking, hoping, searching for a donor for some time. It's not an easy thing to do. There are a lot of folks out there in a similar situation. You might have noticed him on the air as he suffered through this, but this is just great news for all of us.

[09:55:04]

GOLODRYGA: And he found that donor right here among his CNN family.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: We wish him a speedy recovery ahead.

Well, also ahead, a barrage of strikes against Ukraine overnight after Russia's key warship sinks in the Black Sea. Russia striking a military facility on the outskirts of Kyiv now with a cruise missile. So, where does this all lead? CNN is live on the front lines up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

[10:00:00]

Ukraine says that Russia's trying to take revenge for the loss, the sinking of one of the jewels of the Russian navy.