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Zelenskyy Asked Biden to Name Russia a State Sponsor of Terrorism; More Than 150 Injured in Violent Clashes at Holy Site in Jerusalem; Psaki Takes Shot at Fox Reporter Peter Doocy. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 15, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Ukrainian officials have just reported Russian strikes across the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv regions as well. They've been warnings of a major Russian offensive in the coming days. Russia is watching the movement of U.S. weapons to Ukraine and the Kremlin is warning that continued shipments of military aid to Ukraine could result in unpredictable consequences, their words.

Let's welcome in now William Cohen. He served as defense secretary under President Clinton. Secretary Cohen, welcome back. Let me start with what we're just getting in here that President Zelenskyy during a recent call with President Biden, asked President Biden to designate Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism. Do you support that and if the president were to do that, what would that mean do? What would it do?

WILLIAM COHEN, DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, it would just add more overlapping sanctions. In this case Russian would join all of its limited friends -- Syria, Iran, North Korea and Cuba. And so, these are all friends of Russian in any event. But it would then prevent IMF, World Bank making loans to Russia. We'd have other types of sanctions for anyone who's doing business with the Russians. So, it's economic, financial, and other types of civil penalties. For example, removing governmental immunity. Most countries cannot be sued because they have governmental immunity. It removes that so if suits were brought to the United States or elsewhere, they would be libel civilly.

BLACKWELL: Do you support that designation?

COHEN: I don't know what you call this. If it's not terrorism, I don't know how you define terrorism. They are unleashing weapons of destruction that are terrorizing, intimidating, killing. I think that fits the definition of what a terrorist looks like and acts like.

BLACKWELL: This note that the Kremlin sent to the U.S. that if the U.S. were to continue to send weapons aids to Ukraine, that there could be unpredictable consequences. How do you interpret that? Should that change anything the U.S. does?

COHEN: Pretty rich for the Russians to say if you help Ukraine provide for its defense, it will have unintended consequences. Yes, it could. It could also have unintended consequences for Russia. Because the more they saturate and bomb and kill thousands of innocent people, the greater the incentive is going to be for the West, not just the United States, but for the West to take even more aggressive action against the Russians. So, it would have unintended consequences for Russia and potentially the U.S. We'll have to wait and see but I don't think that's going to inhibit the United States from doing what it's doing.

BLACKWELL: The first flight of this $800 million tranche of this weapons aid is headed over to the region -- should be there by tomorrow. So far, the U.S. has promised or pledged or provided $3 billion in military aid for 7 weeks of this war. Secretary Blinken says it could go through the end of the year. At this level is this sustainable for the U.S. to support at this level for another 8 1/2 months, maybe longer.

COHEN: I think it has to be sustained. Ukraine has to win this particular war.

[15:35:00]

For the Russians to have invaded another country, independent, unassociated, unaffiliated with Russia and to have invaded them and level of killing and massacre and barbarism upon this country is really taking I think us to a different level. So, I think, we have to sustain it because Russia, if they, quote, win, and Putin is able to carve up Ukraine. You know, I think you're now seeing the results of what's happening in Finland and Sweden.

It's not Walmart or Starbucks coming to your neighborhood. It's Putin coming to a neighborhood near you. And that's what they are afraid of now. And that's what they should be afraid of. And I think you're seeing the reaction, two neutral countries now considering the possibility of joining NATO for collective defense. That's sending a very unintended consequence message to President Putin.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you a broader question here. President Biden has called this genocide. You served as secretary of defense during the Clinton administration during the U.S.'s intervening, along with NATO, in Kosovo. And President Clinton said that it was the guilt over not stopping the genocide in Rwanda that hastened the U.S. involvement in Kosovo. He felt guilty over that. So, when you hear an American president say that this is genocide and his White House says and nothing will change after that feeling. What does that context tell do you? How the you receive what we heard from President Biden?

COHEN: Well, President Biden is speaking the truth. I co-chaired a task force on preventing genocide. We had a very distinguished group of individuals. It was sponsored by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. The U.S. Peace Institute, U.S. Diplomacy Institute and we recommended a series of actions to prevent genocide. It's clear to me that genocide has been committed. And said there's a model here, what does Russia produce? Oil, gas, guns in genocide.

BLACKWELL: Well, Mr. Secretary, my question is, the U.S. has said never again for decades. Never again after the Holocaust, never again after Rwandan, after Cambodia and President Zelenskyy says what is the point of never again if this could happen and an American president can say this is genocide but nothing will change.

COHEN: Well, something changed in Kosovo to be sure. We had a coalition of the willing saying never again. We were going to allow Milosevich to have ethnic cleansing. The question here is we're dealing with something quite different. Not Milosevich but Putin. Putin has wrapped himself in a nuclear terrorist. And he said if you try and stop me, I may blow up this nuclear weapon. Well, it's different calculation we have to make here. So, we have to be careful. But send the signal to Putin, if he crosses that line and using chemical or nuclear weapons, it's a very different reaction you're going to have from the United States. So, it's because you're dealing with the nuclear power, we have to deal with it somewhat differently. But I think that the thing here is no fear and no compromise on helping Ukraine to win.

BLACKWELL: All right, former Defense Secretary William Cohen. Thank you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Stones, fire crackers and stun guns. Violent clashes in Jerusalem injured dozens on a holy day for many religious faiths. We have more on this story, ahead.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Clashes broke out in Jerusalem on what is a very significant day for the city's three main religions.

CAMEROTA: More than 150 people were hurt at a prominent holy site for Jews and Muslims. CNN's Hadas Gold reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The sounds of violence as dawn broke on Friday over the old city of Jerusalem. Hundreds of Palestinians clashing with Israeli forces around the mosque compound -- also known as the Temple Mount -- holy to both Muslims and Jews.

Israeli police say they were responding to violent rioters throwing rocks and launching fireworks. Surveillance footage released by police appears to show mask men smashing rocks overnight in preparation. By midmorning the Palestinian Red Crescent said more than 150 people had been injured by rubber bullets and stun grenades.

Among those injured was a Palestinian camera man. Video show him being kicked and beaten by police. Three Israeli officers were also injured -- hit by rocks police said. At one-point, Israeli police entering the mosque itself. A move seen as a major provocation by Muslims. Police said they arrested more than 300 inside.

Israel's foreign minister defended police actions saying rock throwers were jeopardizing free worship.

GOLD: Even before Friday's unrest, there had been a sense of a city holding his breath in anticipation. As a rarity, the holidays of Ramadan, Good Friday and Passover all overlap on the same day.

GOLD (voice over): In the middle of the night before the violence the old city's Muslim residents gathered for the Suhur, the traditional meal before the sun rises and the daily fast begins.

Later as the sound of stun grenades and fireworks echoed in the background, pilgrims and locals from Western churches made their way along the stations of the cross. Tracing the path Jesus made before ending at the church of the holy sepulcher. Which Christians revere as the site of the crucifixion.

If the religious calendar had brought tensions, so too had recent events in Israel and the West Bank.

[15:45:00]

The Israeli army stepping up raids and operations in Palestinian towns and cities in response to a series of attacks in Israel that killed 14 people in less than three weeks. And though by early evening it seemed like a lid had been placed on the city's tensions, it may only be a matter of time before it boils over once again.

Hadas Gold, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Out thanks to Hadas there.

So, back here White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki taking a shot at Fox's Peter Doocy. What about President Biden's promise of no disrespect in his administration. All of that is next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki had some, let's call them choice words for her frequent press room rival, Peter Doocy, yesterday during a live taping of Pod Save America podcast. One of the hosts asked Psaki about the time the president was caught on a hot mic insulting the Fox News reporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOST: Is he a stupid son of a b*** (BLEEP) or does he play a stupid son of a (BLEEP) on TV?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, he works for a network --

HOST: OK.

PSAKI: That provides people with questions that nothing personal to any individual, including Peter Doocy, but might make anyone sound like a stupid son of a (BLEEP).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter. Brian, obviously, Peter Doocy has been at times been a thorn in the side of Jen. But doesn't that come with the territory?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It does come with the territory. And I think the point she's trying to say there is that Fox pushes story lines that are sometimes nonsense. Doocy does that in the briefing room. But still, she did it in a way playing to a liberal audience that certainly is going to cause a lot of outrage from Fox probably for the next few days, right?

Here's what the network says in a statement. Fox telling me, quote: in his role as White House correspondent, Peter Doocy's job is to elicit truth from power for the American public. His questions -- they say -- are his own, he is a terrific reporter and we are extremely proud of his work.

So basically, Fox is saying, hey, we don't provide him questions. He comes up with them himself. So there defending his honor. I think Jen Psaki is kind of like -- remember in senior year, spring of your senior year, you're about to graduate and you're just tired of all this? I think we're seeing that from Jen Psaki. She's about to leave the White House. She's going to a job -- likely be MSNBC -- so she's kind of relaxing and maybe sharing how she really feels. But to be fair, she didn't really criticizing him directly. She was really criticizing Fox News as an organization.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and let's remember that the question was born out of what President Biden said about Steve Doocy.

CAMEROTA: At that time -- it's Peter Doocy.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Peter Doocy.

CAMEROTA: But Peter Doocy said something to the president like, do you think that the inflation is going to hurt your chances at the mid- terms? That's actually a fair question. It rankled the president but that's not a below the belt, that's not gotcha question -- Brian.

STELTER: No, that's not a gotcha question. There have been other times though where I think Doocy does advance right-wing talking points in the briefing room. But that's his right and I think that's the point. The tension there is to be expected. And it'll exist whoever replaces Psaki as well. It's just the same that she's going to off to another channel and he won't have Psaki versus Doocy anymore.

BLACKWELL: Yes, well, we should remember, and the president should remember that promise he made at the start of the administration. That anyone who disrespects someone, you're out the door. These words were actually his. Brian Stelter, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks Brian.

STELTER: Thank you. CAMEROTA: President Zelenskyy tells the world to be prepared for the

possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons. More of the exclusive interview with Jake Tapper, coming up.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Russia's invasion has forced more than a quarter of Ukraine's population to flee their homes making it the fastest growing refugee crisis since World War II.

BLACKWELL: This week's CNN hero is doing all she can to help. Teresa Gray is a paramedic and nurse from Alaska. Her team recently went to Romania to care for Ukrainians.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERESA GRAY, MOBILE MEDICS INTERNATIONAL: What we were expecting to see was large groups of people housed in tent cities. And actually, they are housing these refugees in individual dorm rooms. They've got food. They've got shelter. But the trauma is the same. They've lost almost everything.

This is filled with women, children, and elderly. There is a flu outbreak currently that obviously affects the children. We also have pre-existing conditions. It isn't just about fixing the broken arm or giving you medicine. It is making the human connection.

Sometimes you need to hold their hand and walk them down a hallway and listen to them. We try to meet the needs of whatever presents to us. Human suffering has no borders. People are people. And love is love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: To see how Teresa's organization went the extra mile to help one particular Ukrainian family, go to CNNheroes.com. And while you're there, you can nominate someone you know who is making a difference.

BLACKWELL: That's an important point that she makes there. That human suffering has no borders.

CAMEROTA: I mean, she's doing God's work. So many people are obviously in helping these refugees but seeing all they need and also just the human interaction and the touch that they need. It's incredible.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Well, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper and more of his exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy starts right now.

CAMEROTA: Have a great weekend.

END