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Russian Warship Sinks, Ukraine Claims Missile Strike; Russia Warns Against Sweden and Finland Joining NATO; Palestinians: At Least 117 Injured in Jerusalem Clashes; U.N.: More Than 4.7 Million Refugees Have Fled Ukraine. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired April 15, 2022 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada, and all around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. We're following the breaking news coverage of Russia's war in Ukraine. Just ahead --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Early on in the war, Ukrainian troops refusing to surrender, telling the Moscow where to go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was in the kitchen and it started, she says. Her home is now in ruins.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we've all been seeing the pictures and reading the reports regarding the devastation, the human cost, both to property, but really very most importantly, to civilians -- men, women, and children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRUNHUBER: Just a few days ago, the warship the Moskva was the crowned jewel of Russia's Black Sea naval fleet -- a symbol of national pride. Now the guided missile cruiser has sunk. The victim of an apparent missile strike by Ukrainian military. Satellite images show the Moskva in port in Crimea just last week. Sources say U.S. and Western intelligence believe Ukraine's claims of a missile strike are credible.

Russia says a fire broke out onboard the ship, igniting munitions. Ukraine's national security adviser warns the strike on the Moskva is just the first with more to come. And then the U.S. and the Pentagon played up the Victory for Ukraine.

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JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: And this is a big blow to the Black Sea fleet. This is a cruiser, very, very capable warship with almost 500 sailors onboard and a key part of their efforts to execute some sort of naval dominance in the Black Sea. So, this is going to have an effect on their capabilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Meanwhile, Russia is preparing for a major offensive to capture the Donbas region adding command and control and aviation capabilities to its forces in the east. A senior U.S. defense official says the first Russian troops who left northern Ukraine are now appearing in the east.

By Ukraine claims, it has stopped at least one advance in the Kharkiv region. Special operations forces say they've destroyed a bridge, just as Russian convoy of trucks and armored vehicles was crossing.

All right. We have CNN correspondents across the region covering the conflict from every angle. We have our Nic Robertson in London, Salma Abdelaziz in Poland, Ben Wedeman is in Donetsk in the eastern Ukraine. But we begin with CNN's Matthew Chance in Washington D.C. with the sinking of the Moskva.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The now sunken flag ship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, the Moskva, was always about intimidation and delivering a blunt message from the Kremlin, whether to Ukraine or elsewhere.

CHANCE: Well, this is an extremely impressive bit of military hardware out here in the eastern Mediterranean.

CHANCE (voice-over): When we went to board this once-powerful symbol of Russian naval power off the Syrian coast in 2015, the ship's captain told me they deployed on the personal orders of President Putin. Furious, a Russian aircraft had been shot down by Turkey just weeks before. The Moskva bristling with its missiles is a threatening weapon, the captain warned.

The loss of this raw firepower now, which we witnessed at close quarters seven years ago, is a humiliating military blow.

CHANCE: As you can see it's got these enormous missile launching tubes, which can carry a nuclear missile -- although we are told there are none onboard at the moment. It's got this big gun as well to defend itself. But most importantly, this ship, the "Moskva" has very sophisticated surface-to-air missiles, and that's why it's been deployed here off the coast of Syria to provide air defenses for the Russian war planes to carry out their air strikes back there in Syria.

CHANCE (voice-over): That same weaponry was unleashed on Ukraine, too. These recent images from the Russian defense ministry show the Moskva firing cruise missiles from the Black Sea. The ship was also involved in the Russian takeover of a Ukrainian island earlier on in the war. Ukrainian troops refusing to surrender telling the Moskva where to go.

[04:05:00]

Confirmation this Black Sea flagship has now been sunk will be a major boost for Ukrainian morale. But it's another big loss in Russia's staggering war.

CHANCE: Well, there's a sense from the Ukrainians that this is retribution. One Ukrainian official telling CNN that Putin came to kill our children, our women, our civilians. This, in return, is our gift to him.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: The Kremlin is warning against the further expansion of NATO and threatening consequences if Sweden and Finland join the alliance. Former president Dmitry Medvedev, who's now part of Russia's security council says such a move would cause the Russian military to, quote, more than double its forces on its western flank, and suggested the Baltics would lose their non-nuclear status. But Sweden and Finland are edging closer to applying NATO membership. Their decisions are expected in the coming weeks.

CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins me now from London, with more. So, Nic, Putin seems to be reaping what he sowed here. What are the likely repercussions?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, increased tensions along that border. There's an 800-mile border between Finland and Russia. It has been sort of had this neutral status, if you will, but Russia will perceive and is perceiving Finland's movement towards NATO -- and it seems very likely that they will join the -- very likely to expected to put in a formal request to NATO's leaders, a NATO's leaders' summit in Madrid of June this year.

It is likely to increase tensions along that border. We've heard from Medvedev, saying that Russia will double its forces along there. But also, increase its naval forces in the sea around Helsinki, the Gulf of Finland, as well as what he is implying, put nuclear missiles in their missile systems in Kaliningrad, just across the sea from Helsinki. Now, the view of the former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt is that actually Russia has had those nuclear missiles there in Kaliningrad for some time.

How this plays out over the longer term really is very hard to know. But certainly, this is exactly the opposite of what President Putin was intending. It is as a direct result of the hostility that is shown to Ukraine, the risks that he is taking in the region, that Finland and now Sweden really feel that they are better served, their national security is better served by having the sort of blanket umbrella support of NATO's Article 5. An attack on one is an attack against all. Ukraine has put that -- Russia's attack on Ukraine has put that in very, very sharp focus.

BRUNHUBER: All right. Thanks so much, Nic Robertson in London. Appreciate it.

Now for more on this, let's bring in Orysia Lutsevych, who's the head of the Ukraine Forum at Chatham House and she joins me from London. Thanks so much for being here with us. I want to start with your perspective on the sinking of the Russian cruiser, the Moskva. So, what's the significance of this? And I'm thinking less the military importance but a morale point of view, both for Ukraine and possibly for Russia?

ORYSIA LUTSEVYCH, RESEARCH FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE: It has a huge significance. And I think the joke goes in Ukraine, that this is the largest stamp promotion, the most expensive stamp promotion because Ukrainian postal service has just issued a stamp with the scene from the Zmiinyi Island -- the Snake Island -- when the same cruise missile, Moskva was trying to attack Ukrainians. So, soldiers there told them to go where they could go.

It has a real big significance, because it's a flag ship, and it also was based in the annexed Crimea and it has been used to blockade the shipments throughout the Black Sea and Azov Sea. So, it is a serious boost of morale. And actually, another proof that Russian navy is not as invincible as perhaps Russia would like to project globally, as a naval power.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely. And so now with this Russian reset, focusing on the east with weapons from the U.S. and other countries on their way to help with the resistance there, how worried are you that this vital military aid won't get there in time, in time to be deployed, I guess, to help turn the tide? Obviously, the clock is ticking here.

LUTSEVYCH: Well, time is the essence. You're absolutely right, Kim. And I think this is what Ukrainian political and military leadership is urging. You know, we have seen the scorched earth, the brutality, the extermination of Ukrainians, close to genocide, in the small towns around Kyiv.

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And this is just a glimpse to what we may see in other areas, much bigger towns like Mariupol. And this is why Ukrainian society and Ukrainian armed forces have very much determined to mount counteroffensives to liberate those areas, to defend what is possibly to defend. And that is why supply routes have to be strictly protected. They have to be sustainable, and they have to move fast.

I mean, we do see Ukrainian railways functioning surprisingly well, both evacuating people one way and probably using to a certain degree to supply in those necessary munitions to the front line. But the battle for Donbas will be vicious and we do expect huge suffering from the civilian populations. And I do know the Ukrainian government is trying to convince people to leave and not everyone wants to leave.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, I mean you spoke of this scorched earth policy and the fact that this is just a glimpse of what we might see. I mean, a lot of that is tied to Russia's new general, who is now leading the war strategy in Ukraine and he has a very sordid history. Should that inform what we might expect from him now in terms of tactics, if not of outcomes?

LUTSEVYCH: Absolutely. I think it's quite telling that Aleksandr Dvornikov, who was the head of operations in Syria in 2015 has the nickname of "Butcher of Syria." He basically annihilated and obliterated the second largest Syrian town of Aleppo. And his strategy was simply to bombard anything that was alive, target civilian infrastructure, hospitals, schools, and then, basically, take over what was left.

It is a similar strategy we are already seeing in Mariupol, so we may see it on a bigger scale. The problem here for Russians is they do not control the air space like they did control in Syria. They will be challenged upon that strategy. And that is why assistance on the anti- aircraft air defense from Ukraine's allies is so key. And that's why those S-300s that Slovakia is providing and other states is so important. Because they will be key in the next stage of a battle for Donbas.

BRUNHUBER: All right, so let's shift off the battlefield. We're seeing more economic warfare against Russia, whether it's the latest super yacht just seized from a Russian oligarch or on the larger scale with the Biden administration just announcing that they're going to put in new measures to crack down on Russian efforts to evade all of those sanctions.

So, about a month ago, you wrote about the importance of these economic measures. You said, what's needed is, quote, economic warfare, not the weak sanctions and half-measures that have been put in place so far. So, now a month later, where are we? Are those measures strong enough yet?

LUTSEVYCH: Well, I'm absolutely standing by the opinion that the West is here to take down on Putin and make sure he fails. We need to target the sources of income that he gets and cripple Russian federal budgets to finance this war. And obviously, we have traveled quite far from where we were one month ago and right now what is really at stake is the energy embargo. And it's primarily up to Europe, to the European Union member states to decouple themselves from Russian energy.

It's a difficult conversations. Some countries are much more forward on it. Eastern Europeans, Poland. Some countries like Austria or Germany are lagging behind. But we need to have this critical conversation. Because otherwise, they will be complicit in the death of millions of Ukrainians and all of these horrors we have seen. You know, they are financed by the euros that Russia is able to extract from gas and oil. So, I would say we are doing good, but we need to do more, because Russia is upping the scale of its war, not tuning it down.

BRUNHUBER: We'll have to leave it there, thanks so much for your analysis, Orysia Lutsevych really appreciate it.

Israeli police are stepping up security around one of Jerusalem's holiest sites following clashes that Palestinians say sent at least 117 people to hospital.

Israeli police say they were responding to rioters and that some Palestinians threw fireworks and stones at them, within the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound early Friday. CNN's Hadas Gold is standing by the Jerusalem. So, Hadas, what's the latest?

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HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kim, this was already a significant day, nerves were on edge, because not only is it Ramadan, but today is also Good Friday and tonight is the beginning of Passover. A rare year where all of these holidays overlap.

What we know is around 5:00 a.m. is when we actually started hearing the booms and crackles of these clashes. According to Israeli police, they say that violent rioters, they're calling them, were launching fireworks and throwing rocks at them. According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, more than 150 people have now been listed a as injured in those clashes. The Israeli police say three of their officers were injured.

The situation is calmer now, but it is still incredibly serious. Also, because we are seeing social media video that apparently, a few hours after those clashes first started off, Israeli police actually entered the mosque itself. This is seen as incredibly provocative for Muslims. And it's very possible that's what's happening here in Jerusalem, and potentially go even board.

Because keep in mind, that a year ago, right around this time, right around Ramadan, it was tensions and clashes in Jerusalem at the Al- Aqsa compound that helped spark that 11-day conflict between Hamas and the militants in Gaza and Israel.

Now tensions had already been pretty high in Israel and across the West Bank for some time. This is after the Israeli military started launching more raids and operations in the West Bank. They said in response to a series of terror attacks in Israel that killed 14 people.

But in addition to the tensions in the West Bank, tensions in Jerusalem were especially focused on threats from some Jewish extremists who wanted to come to the Al-Aqsa common -- also known as the "Temple Mount" to Jews -- and participate in some sort of ancient Passover ritual sacrifice. Now they ultimately did not do so. But just the threat of it brought Hamas -- the militant group that controls Gaza -- to call on its supporters to go to Al-Aqsa and to defend it. And then we saw those clashes this morning.

So, things have been up and down sort of all day here at the Damascus Gate entrance to the old city of Jerusalem. At one-point the Israeli police even completely shut off the entrances to anybody from entering the old city. They have since lifted it. People are going in and out. But there's a question of what will happen after the Friday prayers. What will happen tonight, and what will Hamas's response in Gaza be to the activities today in Jerusalem -- Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Keep monitoring this story throughout the day. Hadas Gold in Jerusalem. Thanks so much.

Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, we'll have a live report on Poland on the refugee crisis, as millions of Ukrainians flee the fighting. Plus, this --

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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "It's hard," she says. "I can't stay in this room. I'm so afraid. I want it to be quiet and calm again."

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BRUNHUBER: We visit a town in eastern Ukraine that could be among the first to face the renewed Russian assault. Stay with us.

[04:20:00]

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Ukraine will never forgive this. Ukraine will never forgive Russia. Ukraine will win for sure, because our people are united, very much so. You understand? Because they're all together. And that's why we will surely win.

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BRUNHUBER: Ukrainian refugees are remaining defiant in the face of Russian aggression, as it steps up its campaign in the east. More than 4.7 million people have fled the country since the fighting started and more than 7 million are internally displaced within Ukraine. On Thursday, nine humanitarian corridors were agreed upon. Ukrainian authorities say more than 2,500 people were evacuated.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is live in Lesko, Poland, near the Ukrainian border. So, Salma, tell us, what have you been seeing there?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: So, I'm going to start by explaining to you where I am. I am actually in an office building. And I'm going to start showing you around here. Because this office building has been turned into a shelter for fleeing women and children. You can see the drawings on the wall done by the kids here. There's little posters from kids in the U.S. wishing them well.

And if you take a look here on the other side from me, there's a little kitchen that's been set up for everybody, to get their morning coffee, get their breakfast. There's about 50 families here, Kim. And what's really extraordinary about this space it's all been done by the kindness of just one man. One friendly stranger who opened up this office building and spent thousands of dollars, thousands of his own dollars, taking care of these families. He opened it up just a few days after the start of the war.

And I want to introduce you to one of the volunteers who's working here. Mila.

MILA TURCHYN, VOLUNTEER, LESKO REFUGEE CENTER: Hi. ABDELAZIZ: Start by telling me what this place is and what it

provides?

TURCHYN: So, this is a refugee center. And they provide showers, they provide beds, they provide heat -- not heat, hot lunches and dinners every day, for all the people here. They bring people that need clothes, food, canned goods, so people can, straight from the border -- it's very close to the border -- they can come here and they have some rest, breather, and just realize what's happening with their lives, basically.

ABDELAZIZ: And on that, what does it mean for these families? Because the way we found you, it's we saw a sign in the train station. And I'm sure that's a way a lot of the families find you. Just seeing that sign, offering beds, offering hot meals. What does it mean to these families to be able to have that few days to calm down and get a warm meal?

TURCHYN: I think it means the world. Because -- I saw a plea, help me, on Facebook, and I'm just emotional. And they say, they see there are like thousands of people sitting there and there's no shower, nothing. And they came here. And they can just feel themselves as a human being, you know. We have a family came, they were in Ukraine, in basement, for a month. They have fungus and they didn't take their shoes off for a month, they didn't take a shower. So -- I'm sorry.

ABDELAZIZ: It's OK. I mean, it does mean everything in your describing what these families are going through. I know that you live in the U.S.

[04:25:00]

You came here to volunteer. What are the needs that these families have?

TURCHYN: We need to place them. We need to find them a house, or a family who can invite them and open the house. And they need transportation, lots of transportation from the border to the place. In other country of Poland, they want jobs, because we don't want to be burden to anyone. We will work, please give us that. We just want to give home, eventually, you know. They're like, I don't want this. No one wants this. We didn't ask for this. And we want to go home so bad. But we can't.

ABDELAZIZ: Thank you so much, Mila. Thank you, thank you for explaining all of that to us.

And Kim, again, the needs from these families is enormous. I just want to show you one last thing that's been set up here at this center. It's a board. And you can see there's the names of each of the families that are here, the room they are in, and a place that they are trying to go. They're essentially looking for hosts. They are looking for hosts, rather, Kim. And that's what all of this is so -- why all of this is so extraordinary. It's completely organic. This is just strangers pitching in, helping out good Samaritans, trying to open up their rooms. Trying to open up spare places. But you have to keep wondering, Kim, how much longer can people provide this. Again, the man here is doing it on his own dime.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, just amazing. I mean, to go back to your guest there, to see and hear the emotion in her voice as she talks about the need of all of those refugees. And of course, so many people like her choosing to step in and make a vital difference here. Really powerful and heart-warming to hear that story. Salma Abdelaziz, thank you so much.

And while after seeing that, I mean if you want to help people, to safely and securely sort of make a difference in Ukraine, for people who may need shelter, food, and water, as you've seen there, please go to CNN.com/impact, and you can find several ways to help.

Well, a man shot and killed by police in Michigan is speaking out. We'll take you through what we know about what happened and what the family is saying. That's ahead. Stay with us.

We will also take you to a town at the very edge of the government's control in eastern Ukraine, as Russia appears to be preparing a new military offensive.

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