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Ukraine: Body Count Near Kyiv Nearly 1,000; Zelenskyy: Whole World Should Worry Putin Will Use Nukes; OSCE: Patterns of Possible War Crimes; CNN Reconnects with Woman Trapped in War Zone; Ukrainian Military to Compete in Invictus Games; U.S. Confirms Moskva Sunk by Ukrainian Missiles; U.N. Security Council Criticized over Failure to Stop Invasion; Twitter Board Keeping Musk at Bay. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired April 16, 2022 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello, welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause, live in Lviv, Ukraine.
Well, Ukrainian authorities are reporting a significant increase in Russian shelling along Ukraine's eastern and southern fronts. The governor of Mykolaiv in southern Ukraine says Russian attacks using cluster munitions left at least five civilians dead on Friday. More on that in a moment.
Meantime, the Russian military continues to resupply and rearm in the east with a renewed offensive expected within days. But Ukrainian military officials claim recent Russian attempts to seize more territory have been repelled.
And confirmation from the U.S. the guided missile cruiser Moskva was sunk by two Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. Moscow says the flagship of its Black Sea fleet sank while being towed to port after being damaged by a fire, which set off munitions. There's no information about the 500-plus crew onboard.
Gruesome scenes being uncovered around Kyiv, where the Russians laid waste to many surrounding villages and towns before and during their retreat. More than 900 bodies of civilians have been recovered so far. And a warning: this report from CNN's Phil Black contains some graphic images.
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PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The operation to recover and investigate Bucha's dead is now industrial in its scale. Teams of people are working to empty the town's mass grave and many smaller ones. The victims of Russia's occupation are being retrieved from the earth. There are so many bodies rarely do those doing the digging know the stories of how each person lived and died. Here two men are being exhumed from the grounds of a small church. The priest who oversaw their first burial didn't know them.
ABBOT MYKOLA VOLOSYANSKIY, VORZEL CHURCH OF TRANSFIGURATION: (Speaking foreign language).
BLACK (voice-over): He says he thinks one was a scientist, the other a school bus driver. He thinks they were shot and killed in the street.
Among the now notorious images from Bucha's road of death, Yablonska Street, was this man lying beneath his bike. His name was Vladimir Brovchenko, Svetlana is his widow.
SVETLANA BROVCHENKO, WIFE OF BUCHA VICTIM: (Speaking foreign language).
BLACK (voice-over): She says, she told her husband, "Don't go. They're shooting. The tanks are already on Yablonska Street."
But he insisted on leaving the house. She says the 68-year-old grandfather was killed as soon as he reached the road. His bike is still there.
This building stands near Bucha in the village of Vorzel. Among those killed here were Yulia's (ph) parents, Natalia and Victor Mezoha (ph). She says her mother was helping a young injured woman who had been discarded by a Russian soldier when more soldiers suddenly entered their home.
YULIA, DAUGHTER OF BUCHA VICTIMS: (Speaking foreign language).
BLACK (voice-over): She says, "They came in. Shot the woman. Shot my mother. And then, my father ran out, when he heard something was wrong. And they shot him."
The young woman was Karina Yershova. She was 23 years old. Karina's mother says, police told her, her daughter was raped, before she was shot.
It's more than two weeks since the Russians withdrew and the operation to account for all the bodies they left behind, isn't finished. Mourning each victim, remembering how they lived understanding why they died will take much longer -- Phil Black, CNN, Bucha, Ukraine.
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VAUSE: Well, with Russia's war losses mounting, Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke exclusively with CNN's Jake Tapper.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Not only me, I think all of the world, all of the countries have to be worried. Because, you know that, it can be not real information, but it can be the truth, because when they begin to speak about one or another battles or involved enemies or nuclear weapons or some chemical, you know, issues, chemical weapons, they should do it. They could do it.
I mean, they can.
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ZELENSKYY: For them, life of the people means nothing. That's why, we should think not be afraid. I mean, not be afraid. Be ready, but that is not a question to Ukraine, and not only for the Ukraine. But for all of the world, I think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The director of the CIA has earlier voiced similar concerns. But U.S. officials say they've seen no evidence so far the Kremlin is preparing to use short-range, tactical nuclear weapons.
Over the past 24 hours, the southern Ukrainian city of Mykolaiv near the Black Sea has been the target of multiple Russian attacks. Local officials say cluster munitions hit residential areas, killing at least five people, wounding more than a dozen others. CNN's Ed Lavandera was on the scene and filed this report.
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ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The residents of Mykolaiv, Ukraine, woke up this morning to hours of bombardment on the edges of the city. And then an explosion, multiple explosions, of cluster munitions here inside the city.
You can see the impact of just this one munition here.
And in this park, where we are, we have learned that there are at least two people that were killed. And we are in a park, as you see; this actual church behind me was not necessarily targeted. But one of the cluster munitions went off over here. And I can show you where that happened.
But this is a largely residential area. We were talking to one lady, who thought -- and she described to us as, when the munitions went off just outside of her window, the windows exploded. She thought it was the end of the world.
This is an orthodox church here in Mykolaiv. You can see the impact spot of one of the munitions that went off this morning.
And, again, this is an area where two people were killed. And there have been attacks and explosions felt in various parts of the city.
And as you look around here, you can see the impact and the damage done to this church here as well. And all of this unfolding in the early Friday morning hours. One witness told us there were people walking their dogs in this area.
This is an area that appears completely civilian; apartment buildings. As we've driven around, we don't see any evidence that there are military installations or military targets in this area.
But this really speaks to the heightened fear that people here in the Mykolaiv region have, given the news of the Russian warship that was sunk in the Black Sea off the coast of Ukraine.
There's a great deal of concern and worry about what the retaliation for that will be and also the news of Russian forces renewing their offensive in the east.
And will that make this city once again a target?
We are seeing whether or not these attacks this morning and the constant bombardment that we've heard for the last 12 hours or so is part of that. It's hard to say at this moment.
But right now there are neighborhoods of civilian residents here in Mykolaiv, who are kind of coming to terms and picking up the pieces of the horror that they've had to experience this morning -- Ed Lavandera, CNN, Mykolaiv, Ukraine.
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VAUSE: The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe has released a preliminary report into allegations of Russian atrocities and has found clear patterns of violations of international humanitarian law as well as credible evidence of war crimes.
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VAUSE: With us now is Oleksandra Matviichuk, a human rights lawyer based in Kyiv.
Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Just as this report is coming out, we're now finding out that 900 bodies, mostly civilians, many of them shot dead, hands tied behind their backs, have been found just around the Kyiv area alone.
Clearly that is not addressed in this initial investigation but the scale and the number of people killed is just a reminder that Ukraine is in many ways an active crime scene right now. These war crimes are ongoing.
OLEKSANDRA MATVIICHUK, KYIV-BASED HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Yes. Unfortunately, according to our investigation into the crimes which we are doing with effort of volunteers, can clearly state that Russia used war crimes as a method of warfare.
VAUSE: The report from the OSCE was unable to conclude whether the Russian attack on Ukraine per se may qualify as a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.
It does, however, hold that some patterns of violent acts violating international human rights law, which have been repeatedly documented in the course of the conflict, such as targeted killings, enforced disappearance or abductions of civilians, including journalists or officials, are likely to meet this qualification. So legally what does this all mean?
And what does it mean in a practical sense?
What are the implications here of this finding?
MATVIICHUK: We have to understand, on restrictions, which have three independent experts, which were appointed to conduct this report, they are not in Ukraine. They are not working the fields.
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MATVIICHUK: They have only access to materials which were submitted to them. And it's very important to verify from the ground whether this fact is true or not. So that's why this conclusion told that they're not able to verify all acts and, as a result, to provide final conclusions.
But still, it's very important that in this report is mentioned this clear connection between violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law and the action of Russian troops. The experts emphasized also that majority of this violation were committed in the area under the Russian control.
VAUSE: Why aren't these investigators on the ground in Ukraine?
I know it's dangerous. There are risks. But surely it's much easier to collect this evidence in real time, document as it happens and conduct an investigation now, than, what, six months, a year from now?
MATVIICHUK: I totally agree. That's why, in early March, there was published an appeal. And we asked all international organizations to return because, when they were started, they withdrew their staff from Ukraine or transferred them.
And we asked them to ensure international presence in the war zone during evacuation of civilians from destroyed cities, to be present in occupied territories, where people, locals, are left alone, face to face only with Russian occupiers.
So it's very important that international community has to react. But unfortunately, we still have no response. And all international organizations, with small exceptions, are providing the monitoring distantly.
VAUSE: The report also looked at video of Ukrainian troops shooting Russian POWs. It found it could not confirm the authenticity of that video but also voiced some concerns about the treatment of prisoners of war, who originally were considered criminals and treated in ways that are incompatible with Geneva Conventions.
In particular, this report raises concerns about POW images being used by Ukrainian officials here posted on social media as a way of informing families back in Russia they've been captured. That was seen as explosive and possibly putting those POWs in harm's way.
Would you like to see an end to that process?
MATVIICHUK: I think and I'm sure that Ukrainian official has to provide a proper investigation of this video. And if it's the fact of inappropriate behavior with war prisoners, will be confirmed.
The results of this investigation has to take the guilty people to accountable and make them accountable, because Ukraine has clearly demonstrate that our state is fulfill in line of international humanitarian law.
And here I may say that we have some steps of improvement because, in March, as the National Information Bureau was created, this bureau is responsible for all question. And International Committee of Red Cross has access to war prisoners, which is called by Ukraine.
Unfortunately, International Committee of Red Cross has no access to war prisoners, which is hold by Russia.
VAUSE: Well, the Ukrainian government did promise a transparent investigation. It said that the results would be made public.
Do we know where that investigation stands right now, when will those findings be released?
And this is in particular with the allegations that Ukrainian soldiers shot dead Russian POWs or Russian soldiers who were wounded.
MATVIICHUK: Yes, it's very worrying videos. And we, as a human rights organization, openly urged our Ukrainian authorities to provide this investigation as quickly as possible and also report publicly not only to human rights organization but to the whole international community because it's violated the policy of Ukrainian army, which distribute a lot of information to Russian soldiers how they can stop their battles and to go to a hostage.
And if Ukraine will not be able demonstrate a safe conditions in accordance of international humanitarian law, this exodus (ph) will violate this broad state official politics holding Russian soldiers.
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VAUSE: Oleksandra Matviichuk, thank you so much for being with us and please stay safe. Thank you for your time.
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VAUSE: We'll take a short break. When we come back, from heartbreak to relief. We'll have an update on an elderly woman. You may have seen her. She was trapped in a war zone. She was with CNN's Clarissa Ward. It was heartbreaking to see what this lady was going through. More on her fate.
Also, Jews around the world celebrating Passover. Our CNN's Jake Tapper met with Jews in Ukraine to find out why it's a so much more poignant and meaningful Passover this year.
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VAUSE: Many of our viewers around the world are asking what happened to Lidia. She was the elderly woman, who could not evacuate a war-torn community. She was stuck in a basement in a wheelchair.
She spoke to CNN's Clarissa Ward a few days ago and now many people want to know what is her fate, where is she now? It was heartbreaking at the time.
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VAUSE: She wouldn't let Clarissa's hand go at one point. She did not want her to leave. Clarissa Ward now has this update.
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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lidia Mikhailuk thought this day would never come. After weeks of horror, she waits outside her apartment to be evacuated.
WARD: So we're here at the Big Heart living facility and we're just waiting for Lidia to arrive. She has driving for some hours and we're excited to see her.
Here she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm glad to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got her out.
WARD (voice-over): Lidia greets cameraman Scott McWhinnie.
SCOTT MCWHINNIE, CNN CAMERAMAN: Hey.
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (voice-over): "It's our old friend," she says. "I am so glad to see you again."
After we left Lidia, Thursday, there was an outpouring from people who wanted to help. We managed to connect volunteers to a care home in the relative safety of Dnipro.
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (voice-over): Leaving Lidia alone in her apartment was incredibly tough. To see her safe is a huge relief.
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (voice-over): "Today, I will finally feel calm," she says. "This is so important. Thank you."
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (voice-over): Her journey out of Avdiivka was far from easy.
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (on camera): She is saying that there was a lot of shelling this morning and was terrified.
WARD (voice-over): It took six long hours to get here but she made it.
MIKHAILUK: (Speaking foreign language).
WARD (voice-over): "I'm so lucky," she says. "Safe and comfortable at long last."
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VAUSE: Clarissa Ward, Scott McWhinnie, great story, thank you.
There was a show of solidarity in Rome on Good Friday. Pope Francis oversaw the Way of the Cross, the procession that recreates Jesus' steps toward Calvary. This gesture was criticized by some Ukrainian Catholics.
In Kyiv, the Passover story, the exodus of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, is especially meaningful for Ukrainian Jews forced to flee their homes. CNN's Jake Tapper joined with a rabbi in Kyiv for Passover seder preparations.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): At every seder, Jews say, let all who are hungry come and eat. And at this synagogue in Kiev, they are taking it literally.
RABBI RAPHAEL RUTMAN, HOSTING PASSOVER DINNER IN KIEV, UKRAINE: We have been providing food packages, water, non-perishable items, medicine, evacuations. Trying to celebrate freedom while there's so much terror going on around us, is very, very difficult.
TAPPER: Still, the consistency of tradition it is all more crucial when it is hard to uphold. Last night, Russians were shelling nearby.
Tonight, Rabbi Rutman invites me in and asks me to put on the phylacteries containing parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah.
(on camera): This is a little bit defiant. There are people who tried to get rid of our people in this part of the country. In fact, in this part of the world. And there are still some people like that, right?
RUTMAN: This is a way of showing defiance. This is a way of showing that the Jewish people live on. No matter how many years pass by, the Jewish people are alive and well. And we are proving it by praying. TAPPER: Hear that?
Hear that, Nazis?
We're still here.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER (voice-over): Rabbi Rutman is proud of the Jewish president of his country.
RUTMAN: Shalom.
TAPPER: But seems just as proud to live in a town where the Christian mayor visits to pay his respects.
UNIDENTIFIED MAYOR: I received invitation. I can't say no.
TAPPER: Inside, before sundown, Rutman shows me the seder table and answers the traditional question: Why is tonight difficult than all other nights?
RUTMAN: There are many things about this night that's different. People who are coming to spend the holiday will be spending it under curfew and arrangements have to be made for that. So there's a lot of things very different about this night.
TAPPER: As we get closer to sunset back in Lviv --
VLADISLAD KOVALOV, UKRAINIAN SHELTER RESIDENT: (Speaking foreign language).
TAPPER: -- Vladislad Kovalov is busy preparing for tonight's seder in the shelter he has been staying at for a month.
His family refused to leave northeastern Ukraine amid attacks. But as a military aged man, he is not allowed to leave Ukraine.
KOVALOV (through translation): Passover is typically a family holiday. Normally, I would be with my family. Now I have another family here. It's a very big family that we welcome everyone to.
TAPPER: The meal will be a welcome bit of familiarity for the families staying in the office building-turned-refuge.
From table to table to table, those lucky enough to celebrate Passover in relative peace will pray the families of their fellow Ukrainians will be passed over, as the Russians continue their bloody destructive invasion.
RUTMAN: Passover is Passover. It is about freedom. And we cannot give up. And the good always has to outweigh the evil and the bad. And it will.
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VAUSE: That report there from CNN's Jake Tapper.
A tournament that celebrates the endurance of the human spirit itself will welcome members of Ukraine's military this weekend in a powerful display of solidarity.
The Invictus Games, founded by Prince Harry, was born on the idea of resilience. This year, the event in the Netherlands will see Ukrainian athletes taking part, many of whom were on the front lines just days ago. President Zelenskyy has given his full support.
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VAUSE: Saying he believes the competitors will make Ukraine proud.
New York's Empire State building is shining its tower lights in the colors of the Ukrainian flag for the 15 minutes after sunset.
If you would like to help the people of Ukraine, who are in need of pretty much everything right now from shelter, food, water, medical supplies, what they want really is peace.
But in the meantime, let's try to help them out as much as we can. Go to cnn.com/impact. There you can find ways to ensure your generosity will find the people who need it the most.
I'm John Vause. For our international viewers, please stay with us. We'll take a short break. When we come back, "LIVING GOLF" is next. For everyone else, our breaking news coverage live from Ukraine will continue in just a moment.
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VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause live in Lviv, Ukraine. It has just gone 30 minutes past the hour.
The very latest developments now. Russian troops appear to be testing Ukrainian defenses in the east ahead of an expected offensive. Ukraine says shelling has significantly increased across the region, including multiple rocket attacks, which killed 10 people in the city of Kharkiv on Friday; 35 others were injured.
The U.S. now confirms two Ukrainian missiles sank the pride of Russia's Black Sea fleet. But Russia says the cruiser Moskva suffered an accidental explosion and went down while being towed back to port.
The Russian news agency, Tass, reports at least some of the surviving crew members have arrived in the port of Sevastopol on Friday. Meanwhile, Ukrainian police say they've recovered the remains of more than 900 civilians near Kyiv since Russian troops withdrew over two weeks ago. Russia is facing accusations of atrocities. Wladimir Klitschko, the
brother of Kyiv's mayor, tells CNN that Russians may try again to take the capital.
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WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO, UKRAINIAN DEFENSE FORCE, BROTHER OF KYIV MAYOR: We do expect that the Russians are going to be back and we are preparing for that. And past 51 days have been shown that they might use anything possible to come back. So we need to be prepared for everything.
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VAUSE: Well, the U.N. Security Council is under scrutiny yet again for its inability to do much about this war in Ukraine. The council's role is to maintain international peace and security. It has clearly failed to do that here. CNN's Gloria Borger reports the Ukrainian president did not mince words when he pointed out that glaring, obvious error.
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GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): It didn't take a translation to feel President Zelenskyy's outrage.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Where is the security there the Security Council needs to guarantee, it's not there.
BORGER: Then the final insult. Without action --
ZELENSKYY: Then the next option would be dissolve yourself altogether.
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, he was absolutely right and I think one more concept to understanding what's going on with the United Nations is political institutions are fundamentally broken.
BORGER: Former U.N. ambassador John Bolton has never been a United Nations booster.
BOLTON: I think it is unfixable.
BORGER: Neither has Liz Cheney.
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): It is not the kind of effective entity people hoped it would be when it was created.
BORGER: That was in 1945 when the World War II victors established the U.N. Security Council with five permanent members. Today, those are the U.S., France, the U.K., China and Russia, each with veto power as Joseph Stalin himself insisted.
The world has changed but the council still remains largely as it was 77 years ago, that is, Russia has the power to veto any resolution it opposes. It's like giving a senator on the floor a veto over any legislation without any override.
BOLTON: Exactly and what we're seeing is when there's a fundamental disagreement among permanent members, nothing happens.
BORGER: Suggestions to reform the council by adding more permanent members or removing vetoes all together have been nonstarters. As former U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson points out, it's all about keeping power.
BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: I'm being honest with you. I don't think anyone is going to want to give up their veto.
BORGER: And Russia is not about to vote itself off the security council either, although weeks ago it was condemned twice by the U.N. General Assembly but those were in nonbinding resolutions. Russia was also thrown off the Human Rights Council but even that wasn't a unanimous decision.
BOLTON: Here's the real headline: a majority of the members of the United Nations did not vote to expel Russia.
BORGER: What does that tell you?
BOLTON: It tells you Russia has support around the world.
BORGER: What Putin really cares about is the stature of permanent membership on the Security Council confers.
RICHARD GOWAN, U.N. DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Now in the real world, Russia is not that important. It's China and the U.S. as primary players but in the Security Council, Russians stand on equal to the U.S. and are proud of having that status.
BORGER: All of which leaves the Security Council paralyzed and if the U.N. can't stop what's happening in Ukraine, what's it for?
RICHARDSON: The U.N. is for airing, publicly, the tragedies of the world like the refugee crisis in Ukraine.
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RICHARDSON: Like the possible war crimes. At the same time, the U.N. is providing food. The U.N. is providing refugee assistance.
BORGER: Yet in a bizarre looking glass moment on TV, Russia chaired the Security Council session as weapons were unleashed in Ukraine. Diplomacy could not stop the killing -- a point that Ukrainian ambassador made recently as he read a letter from a 9-year-old boy to his dead mother.
SERGIY KYSLYTSYA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: You are the best mama in the world. I will never forget you.
Such letters should not have to be written. If they are, it means that something has gone terribly wrong, including here at the United Nations.
Even so, no matter how many times the Ukrainians ask for it, reform of the U.N. Security Council is not about to happen anytime soon -- if ever -- Gloria Borger, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, that wraps it up for me this hour from Ukraine. I will be back at the top of the hour. We'll take a short break. My colleague, Michael Holmes, will take a look at the latest advanced weapons the U.S. is sending to Ukraine in just a moment. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome back.
The U.S. is sending heavy weapons to Ukraine as quickly as they can be loaded onto planes. Moscow has officially warned the U.S. to stop supporting Ukraine's military or risk unpredictable consequences.
Now among the bigger items to arrive soon are MI-17 helicopters, which the U.S. redirected from Afghanistan. Also being sent are hundreds of hunter-killer drones called Switchblades and Howitzer cannons.
Now that new batch of U.S. weapons to Ukraine should start arriving in the region in the hours ahead. That's according to a Pentagon official. CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Despite this warning from Russia that, if the United States continues to send more weapons to Ukraine, they would risk these unpredictable consequences, you are seeing the United States continue to do so, because we do expect in the next 24 hours that first shipment of the latest authorization from President Biden of those $800 million in military assistance will arrive in Ukraine.
And this is the package that is much more sophisticated, heavier duty than some of the previous ones we've seen from the White House since the invasion started. And, of course, in the weapons shipments they sent before the invasion actually got underway.
That's a new shipment. It's tailored to what the White House is expecting to be this major ground offensive in Eastern Ukraine. But this is exactly what Russia was warning about in this memo that, I'm told, was sent to the White House on Tuesday.
It's notable that the next day was when President Biden announced this $800 million in new assistance, clearly undeterred by Russia.
But this does come as the White House says that what this Russian warning shows them is that these shipments are basically working, that they are upsetting Russia, they are clearly having an effect.
And that is why Russia wants them to stop and says it's prolonging the war, of course, making this invasion for them a lot harder than they expected it to be.
We should note this comes as CNN is now reporting that Zelenskyy is ramping up the pressure on Biden to do more to make Russia a pariah, even wants to put them on the state-sponsored terrorism list, which, of course, would be a significant development if President Biden decided to take that step.
Though we should note sources told CNN that there has been no firm commitment from Biden yet on that front -- Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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HOLMES: Jill Dougherty is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University's Walsh School of Foreign Service. She's also CNN's former Moscow bureau chief.
Good to see you, Jill.
To start with, what is your read on Russia's warning to the U.S. on those Western arms being shipped?
I mean calling for unpredictable consequences and so forth.
What are the risks Russians might bomb convoys of Western arms inside Ukraine?
JILL DOUGHERTY, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND WILSON CENTER: Oh, I think they might. As Alex pointed out, they're already threatening to do that and they could. I mean they've made the case, I think it was a couple of days ago, where they actually said, you know, it's according to the rules of war.
We can do this because it's, you know, material that can be used offensively. Therefore, we can hit it.
Now whether they will do that, I don't know. But you would have to think that, if it's being used by the Ukrainian military, then they would think that it is fair game.
HOLMES: I wanted to ask you, too, because I know you've been talking about this, tell us how embarrassing is the loss of the Russian flagship, the Moskva.
How embarrassing is that for Putin?
How is it being seen in Russia?
Because I know you monitor such things.
DOUGHERTY: Right. Well, I mean, let's look at it militarily. It's very significant militarily. And the fact that it took, you know, a little while and the government continued -- the Russian government continued to say it was a fire aboard and then detonated armaments and then it was towed and then it sank.
If you watch Russian media, there have been talk shows. And these are used for particular purposes of kind of putting up a trial balloon for an idea.
So at one of these talk shows I was watching, they said, well, actually, they didn't go along with the party line. They said, well, actually, the Ukrainians were trying to hunt that ship and take it down.
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DOUGHERTY: The attack was planned in advance. So that, to me, was very strange, because that is not what the government is saying.
But if you look at that argument, then it is embarrassing to the Russian government to have the Ukrainians kill a ship like that. So immediately then, the argument becomes, on this show, in fact, it had to be NATO. It had to be the United States.
And I think in most of what Russian propaganda is saying right now, everything really does boil down to the United States because, when you get into details about Ukraine, it gets very confused.
You know, are they our Slavic brothers?
Are they the enemy?
Are they all Nazis?
Is it just the government?
It gets very confusing. So -- and also the only country that really means something in the sense of big power and competition to Russia is the United States.
HOLMES: When it comes to what's being seen inside Russia, I mean, funerals are happening. Thousands of young men can't just disappear without it being noticed.
What is your read on, if ordinary Russians are hearing more about the facts rather than state media's take on events?
DOUGHERTY: Well, I think, Michael, they're going to have to hear that, in the sense, from their own friends, from their own families. And if they have lost a boy, they're going to have to hear it, you know, when the body comes back, because there's very little information about how many people have been killed. The military rarely releases any concrete figures. And, in fact, in
the sinking of the Moskva, we still don't know, according to the Russians, how many people actually survived that, how many sailors survived, how many were killed. That is not public information yet.
Then you add that to the fact that the media have been absolutely -- any independent media -- have been absolutely decimated. And then the control over the central media, the government media. So there's very little information coming to anybody unless you get it firsthand.
HOLMES: Yes, good point. Always good to see you, Jill. Jill Dougherty there. Thanks so much.
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HOLMES: We'll take a quick break here on the program. When we come back, tensions high in Jerusalem after violence breaks out at the Al- Aqsa mosque compound.
Also the queen enjoys a long-awaited family visit this week. We'll have details on that and the latest on her health concerns. That's when we come back.
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HOLMES: Jerusalem on edge after clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police at the Al-Aqsa mosque compound. Palestinians say more than 150 people were injured by Israeli security forces. This was on Friday.
Israeli police say they made more than 300 arrests but they only entered the compound, they say, because those throwing rocks were "jeopardizing safe worship," as they put it.
Queen Elizabeth had some visitors this week. Prince Harry and Meghan Markle stopped by to visit the queen, who has been dealing with health issues. CNN's Nada Bashir has more.
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NADA BASHIR, CNN PRODUCER: The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have paid a private visit to the queen and that's according to the couple's spokesperson who said the pair made a stop in the U.K. on their way to the Hague for the Invictus Games.
This marks the first time the couple have returned to the U.K. together since 2020, the year they stepped back as senior members of the royal family. And, of course, Prince Harry was notably absent from a memorial service for his late grandfather, Prince Philip, held in March of this year. Well, there has been intense scrutiny on the couple's decision to step back as senior members of the royal family. Prince Harry has said he has maintained contact with the queen, his family now based in California, often taking part in video calls with the queen.
So this will certainly come as a welcome visit, although this does come at a time of heightened concern around the queen's health. She has expressed that she has felt tired and exhausted after a bout of COVID in February.
We've also seen her in recent engagements opting to use a cane, suggesting she is experiencing some mobility issues. And, of course, in March, she did take a break from royal engagements after spending a night at a London hospital for preliminary tests, doctors they're telling her to take a rest, to take some time off.
So there are certainly some concerns there, but of course the queen is due to celebrate her 96th birthday next week. This is the year that marks her Platinum Jubilee, those celebrations upcoming in the next few weeks.
But there is also some focus on the Easter weekend, the queen traditionally attending a Easter Sunday service in Windsor, but according to a royal source, she won't be in attendance this year, although other family members will be -- Nada Bashir, CNN, at Buckingham Palace, London.
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HOLMES: Twitter's board of directors has adopted a poison pill that might thwart Elon Musk. He's offering more than $41 billion to buy the company. But the board is making it harder and more expensive.
They're preserving the right of other shareholders to acquire more shares of the company at a relatively inexpensive price. Thursday, the Tesla CEO said the takeover move is about more than just business.
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ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA & SPACEX: This is not a way to sort of make money, you know. I think this is -- it's just that I think this is -- this could -- my strong intuitive sense is that having a public platform that is maximally trusted --
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MUSK: -- and broadly inclusive is extremely important to the future of civilization.
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HOLMES: Musk says Twitter needs to be in his view, "transformed," saying there is a lack of free speech on the social media platform.
Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram. Do stay with us. Our breaking news coverage line from Ukraine continues in a moment.
