Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Not Backing Down; Hope For Home-Buyers; Renewed Rocket Attacks Kill 5 In Kharkiv; Luhansk Church Shelled On A Ukrainian Holy Day; Mariupol Officials Reject Russian Demans Of Surrender; Austrian Leader: "Putin Believes He Is Winning The War."; First Shipment Of New U.S Military And Arrive In Region; Chinese Warships Creep Into Contested Waters Near Taiwan; Mask Mandate Returns In Philadelphia As Cases Rise. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired April 17, 2022 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:15]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Pamela Brown in Washington tonight on CNN Newsroom.

Not backing down. Ukrainian forces in the besieged city of Mariupol refused to surrender to Russia.

Also ahead. Trying to live the American dream becoming a nightmare for first time homebuyers. A top realtor says, "Don't give up hope."

And living the legend, one of the last survivors of World War II. Now writing about his missions in Nazi Germany. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you survived, it was only a matter of sheer luck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: More ominous signs as Russia prepares to intensify its relentless assault on Ukraine. And a warning, you may find these next images disturbing. But this is the reality of Vladimir Putin's war.

Renewed rocket and artillery attacks a day in the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv killing at least five people and injuring 20 more. The head of the regional administration there says that despite the assault, Ukrainian forces were pushing the Russians back to the east of the city.

And today, a holy day in Ukraine Russian shelling also hits this church and the town of Luhansk.

And in the besiege port city of Mariupol, officials have rejected a Russian ultimatum demanding that Ukrainian forces surrender. Russia responded saying it would eliminate all resistance there.

And we may all wonder what Vladimir Putin is thinking right now. Well, today a report from Austrian Chancellor, Karl Nehammer who met last week with Vladimir Putin and heard a list of grievances.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL NEHAMMER, CHANCELLOR OF AUSTRIA: I think he is now in his own war logic, you know, he thinks the war is necessary for security guarantees for the Russian Federation. He doesn't trust the international community. He blames the Ukrainians to-- for genocide (ph) in the Donbas region. I think he believes he is winning the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The chancellor who was the first western leader to sit down with Putin since the start of the invasion, says he's concerned about massive battle preparations for the disputed Donbas region. And fear is what he calls many losses of human lives. We've already seen far too many there.

On increasingly defiant, President Zelenskyy tells CNN that Ukraine is not willing to give up territory in the eastern part of the country to end the war with Russia. He says Ukraine's military is prepared to fight Moscow's military in the Donbas region, and the battle he says could influence the course of the entire war.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's foreign minister said today that the city of Mariupol may be a red line for peace negotiations with the Russians. President Zelenskyy has already said that any further Russian war crimes would make negotiations with Russia impossible.

And Zelenskyy also making the chilling claim that some 5,000 Mariupol children were deported to Russia and there is no clue as to where they are right now.

The deadline has come and gone for Ukrainian troops still battling in Mariupol. Russia's Ministry of Defense had ordered those troops to surrender or risk being eliminated. CNN's Phil Black has more.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, an ultimatum was given and it was ignored. The Russian military said that Ukraine's remaining soldiers in Mariupol had until Sunday afternoon, local time to put down their weapons and leave the city. But Ukrainian officials say their soldiers are not putting down their weapons, they're not leaving, and they are not giving up the fight.

That fight increasingly resembles a last step. But that does not mean Mariupol will fall imminently because the Ukrainian defenders there have consistently defied expectation holding out against Russian forces since the start of March while being surrounded cut off without resupply. They have been pushed back to a relatively small patch of territory,

but Ukrainian officials say their soldiers still continue to engage Russian forces in other parts of the city as well. Ukrainian officials also say that residential areas in Mariupol continue to suffer under Russia's bombardment. There are thought to be more than a 100,000 civilians still trapped in the city.

President Zelenskyy says Russia's behavior, its actions in Mariupol and the possibility of more atrocities against civilians being uncovered there that could end any chance of further negotiations between the two countries. Pamela.

[21:05:02]

BROWN: All right. Phil Black, thank you so much. As the first shipments of U.S. military ammunition and hardware arrive in the region. President Zelenskyy, again, voicing hope that President Biden will come to Ukraine. Here's more from Jake Tapper's exclusive interview with the Ukrainian leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you want President Biden to come here?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Yes. Yes.

TAPPER: Are there any plans for him to come?

ZELENSKKY: I think he will.

TAPPER: You think he will?

ZELENSKKY: I think he will. And I think he is-- it's his decision, of course, and about the safety situation, it depends. I mean, that-- but I think he's the leader of United States, and that-- that's why he should come here to see.

TAPPER: President Biden just agreed to another $800 million in military aid for Ukraine, bringing the total American contribution to $2.5 billion. Are you satisfied with that? Do you need more?

ZELENSKKY (through translator): Of course, we need more. But I'm happy that he is helping us now. I feel that right now, we are having a cleaner dialogue. It's been a dialogue that's had some twists and turns and not just talk. It's been very, very difficult, because there aren't many countries that have really helped us.

The assistance from the United States led by President Biden, and they are doing it again today. But there will never be enough. Enough isn't possible. There is a full scale war ongoing today. So, we still need a lot more than what we have today.

Unfortunately, we do not have a technical advantages over our enemy. We're just not on the same level there. But our people are stronger. So that's our main advantage. And we know our mission, our objective, what we are fighting for. We're defending our country, all these families and the kids that we discussed before. We know what we stand for, and from where we get our strength.

But for Biden's confirmed $800 million in support, what's most important is speed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now Congressman Donald Norcross, Democrat from New Jersey, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, welcome to the show. We know you just got back from the region, a congressional bipartisan delegation that visited Germany, Denmark, Greenland, and Poland, where you met with Ukrainian refugees. What was the most important takeaway for you?

REP. DONALD NORCROSS (D-NJ): Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And if we've been watching TV for the last four weeks, we're seeing what is anything less than a human tragedy on an epic scale. Nothing prepares you for seeing those women and children literally come across the border with the looks on their face that they're trying to stay alive.

But the remarkable thing is 97 percent of those coming across the border, women and children. The men are staying there. In the-- in Poland, they're actually giving them a chip so that they can keep the cell service. So they're literally watching and hearing as wars going on. It was incredibly tough.

BROWN: I imagine. You're still probably processing everything that you witnessed there. I do want to ask you about what House Minority Leader, Kevin McCarthy had to say this morning about the question of supplying weapons to Ukraine. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I believe Putin never worried about the sanctions. He only looks at could he be deterred from entering Ukraine. Ukraine was craving the ability to defend themselves. Had we moved the weapons to Ukraine earlier that they could defend themselves it would have saved thousands of lives and probably the decision for Putin not to enter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Such a bold statement he made there suggesting there might have been no Ukraine war if Biden had supplied weapons sooner. But do you think the President Biden should have done more and done it earlier?

NORCROSS: Well, first of all, the truth is incredibly important here. The only group that has held back and kind of aid was during the Trump administration. But this is the exact opposite of what we just spent the last week, five bipartisan, five Democrats, four Republicans. And there wasn't any daylight in between policies of the Republicans and Democrats.

We've went over as one, and yet to listen to Kevin McCarthy, you would think that somehow this held it up. We have been shipping arms, lethal aid for literally years.

[21:10:09]

NORCROSS: What you've seen is an uptick during the Biden administration. The fact of the matter is, we had weapons. And there will be nothing that we could have done in that short period of time that would somehow prevented Russia from invading.

BROWN: And just to follow up on your point about McCarthy and the hypocrisy, coming from McCarthy about since President Trump's first impeachment, of course, was over delaying aid to Ukraine. But it sounds like what you're saying is nothing could have prevented this war. But that's, you know, I'm just wondering, could anything more be done by the west, by NATO?

You know, here we are in the situation, so many weeks into it, we're seeing innocent civilians, children, moms dying daily. I mean, what more can be done? You heard Chris Coons on this morning on CBS Morning talking about just how concerned he is. And he is an ally of President Biden that we're just sitting by and watching these war crimes being committed, and that more needs to be done.

NORCROSS: Pamela, if you're waiting for weapons, it can never come quick enough. Without going into the classified briefings on how this is working, there is a request by the Ukrainians that comes over the United States along with NATO countries, the EU, goes to our supply- base, and says, what can we supply them?

Because remember, they need to know how to use it and some of our advanced weapons, it takes years to learn how to use it. We are supplying them an incredible amount of equipment, lethal aid, but you have to remember, it has to get to them. So, for instance, our planes will come over land in Southern Poland, and then they have to transfer those weapons to Ukraine, then they have to get back into the country without getting targeted, incredibly complex, and many different ways.

But we were at the border crossings, I've seen refugees coming across to Poland we saw twice as many people going back in Ukraine to continue the fight. Wow. That says a lot.

BROWN: I'm just wanting to ask you before we let you go, Congressman, there is this new poll out saying that only 35 percent of Democrats are enthusiastic about the midterms. How concerned are you that Democrats face a shellacking come the midterm elections?

NORCROSS: Well, the most important thing is for us to do our job. Good politics is when you do a good job representing the people. So the idea of getting reelected, it's always on members mind. But the most important thing is to do your job. And if you do it well, you'll get reelected.

BROWN: But I mean, what is the messaging plan for Democrats like what is the plan to prevent a shellacking? Because this poll numbers only 35 percent of Democrats enthusiastic, you know, what the President Biden's approval numbers are? What is the messaging plan? NORCROSS: Well, real simple, it's about jobs. I was an electrician before coming to Congress, the idea of making sure that a $1.2 trillion infrastructure plan to fix our roads, but those are jobs, making sure that a job that you can take care of your family. So obviously, that's important.

Health care when it comes to the medication. We just talked about fixing the insulin prices, which are outrageous. We need to make sure that the people understand that we hear them loud and clear. And that we are working towards that to make sure that we get the prices down that the gass, I've been in favor of dropping the gas tax both federal and state. We need a break.

Remember, this is Putin's war who started this. And that's what's driving up the gas. Coming up (INAUDIBLE)

BROWN: No, I mean, the push back on that, Congressman. There was a number of factors. It's not just Vladimir Putin that is driving up the gas. The gas prices were rising before the Ukraine war. And of course, what we've seen with the sanctions that has contributed to the rising price, but it is a number of factors. But Congressman Donald Norcross, thank you again for coming on the show. We do appreciate it.

NORCROSS: Pamela, thank you.

BROWN: And coming up next. Troubled waters, Chinese warships creeping further into contested territory near the coast of Taiwan. CNN takes you there.

[21:15:01]

BROWN: Also tonight, a gay Missouri lawmaker ripping into his Republican colleagues over a potential ban on trans athletes in youth sports. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

REP. IAN MACKEY (D-MO): I walked around with nice people like you who took me to ball games, who told me how smart I was. And he went to the ballot and voted for crap like this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The ever present threat of China invading Taiwan has reached a higher pitch. Chinese warships have been creeping into contested waters near Taiwan more frequently, and it could be setting the stage for a potential showdown. Here is CNN's Blake Essig with more.

BLAKE ESSIG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For the past 25 years Kuzushi Kinjo has made a living fishing the waters surrounding Japan's Nansei islands. That includes the uninhabited group of islands known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

When he started Kinjo says he never saw Chinese ships, but in the last few years.

KUZUSHI KINJO, FISHERMAN, JAPAN (through translator): You can see it in the video. The bow of one of their ships was pointed straight at us. And they were chasing us.

ESSIG: Dangerous encounters specifically around the contestants Senkaku Islands that Kinjo says are guaranteed.

KINJO (through translator): I don't know for sure. But I also saw what looked like cannons. Looking back, they definitely could have shot at us if they'd wanted too. I felt that fear.

[21:20:03]

ESSIG: In response to CNN, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs says it's carrying out law enforcement duties in its territory. But it's not just the Chinese Coast Guard trolling these contested waters. Japanese and Senior U.S. Defense officials say Chinese warships are routinely patrolling Japanese territorial waters in the waters near Taiwan. And according to one of the men in charge with defending Japan that increased activity isn't limited to the sea.

From where I'm walking on the shores of Japan's Yonaguni Island, the east coast of Taiwan is only a 110 kilometers away. It's so close that on a clear day, you can actually see it. It's this stretch of water. It's been viewed as a potential battleground if China invades Taiwan.

It's that close proximity that has Japanese officials claiming Taiwan's peace and stability is directly connected to Japan's. A security threat amplified by the ongoing nuclear threat posed by North Korea and a growing fear that China may try to take control of land the Japanese government claims is inherently theirs.

GEN. YOSHIHIDE YOSHIDA, CHIEF OF STAFF, GROUND SELF-DEFENSE FORCE (through translator): Japan's territorial sovereignty extends to the Nansie Islands, and I'm afraid that may be infringed in the future.

ESSIG: It's for those reasons that General Yoshihide Yoshida says defending the Nansei Islands is a top priority. The Nansei Islands consistent of these 198 islands since 2016, in a clear departure from Japan's post World War II pacifism, Japan's Self Defense Force has increased its footprint, building bases on Amami Oshima, Miyakejima, and Yonaguni, Ishigaki is next.

How confident are you in Japan's ability to defend itself?

YOSHIDA (through translator): We are enhancing our capabilities, but our competitors are also enhancing their capabilities at an extremely fast pace. It will be very difficult to maintain our deterrence and response capabilities unless we further increase our military capacity.

ESSIG: Back on Yonaguni, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is sparking fears that China could be emboldened to act off Japan's shores.

KINJO through translator): The people are terrified of the situation that's happening. I think that the Senkaku issue and the Taiwan contingency are similar to the Ukrainian issue. I have a strong sense of crisis that this island will eventually cease to be (INAUDIBLE) ESSIG: But in the face of geopolitical concerns well out of his

control, Kinjo and his crew do what they know. They prepare for another day at sea. Blake Essig, CNN, Yonaguni, Japan.

BROWN: With the White House's new COVID coordinator says there is still work to do on controlling the COVID virus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is COVID still a crisis?

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID COORDINATOR: It is still a real challenge for our country. Well, the pandemic is not over as much as we all wish it were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Up next. I'll ask Dr. Leana Wen when about where she thinks we are in this pandemic and about pushback to comments on how seriously to take avoiding COVID.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:26:54]

BROWN: Well, Philadelphia is preparing tonight to reinstate its indoor mask mandate. Starting tomorrow, Philly businesses will have to ask patrons to mask up either that or check that everyone is fully vaccinated upon entry. CNN's Polo Sandoval is in Philadelphia tonight. So, Polo, this comes less than a month after the mandate was lifted. What are people they're saying about this?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's almost like a broken record for so many people here in Philadelphia too, Pamela. This could be the third time that that mask mandate is basically reinstated. Now, what are we talking about? Basically, you're talking schools, office buildings, public government buildings, just like the ones you see behind me City Hall, businesses, restaurants as well.

And what initially started this was back when there was they noticed about a 50 percent increase in daily COVID cases in just the last two weeks. And that was a huge red flag for city officials. And that is why they basically brought this back. But I tell you what, though, when you look at the numbers, and when you look at the key indicators, it certainly is so just about a fraction of what we saw during the last pandemic surge.

You're looking at about an average of about 142 daily COVID cases, which is still well below the 225 threshold that will be needed to go into phase three. Hospitalization is a huge indicator as well, averaging about 44 as of last week. That is still well below the 100 that it would take.

But nonetheless, that third indicator, which is that red flag that we just talked about, that's why city officials here are putting this in place here. Now, there is-- this is an important point, there is a way around it for some of these businesses to remain mask-free. According to the city of Philadelphia, those businesses and those entities that can ensure that all of their occupants are fully vaccinated can potentially remain mask-free. So we're going to have to see exactly who follows that route.

But back to what we're hearing not just on the ground, but even all the way up to Washington, DC earlier today, we heard from the White House Chief COVID Coordinator, Dr. Ashish Jha, basically responding to this step by the city of Philadelphia and agrees that the locals have the right to take this step.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JHA: You know, local officials do have a lot of local knowledge of where is it spreading in which communities, they're using other types of data. So I have been really supportive of local people making local leaders making local decisions, mayors and governors. And I continue to be supportive. I don't think it's useful for those of us sitting in Washington to second guess those decisions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: I can tell you though, here on the ground, there are many people who are second guessing this including a group of business owners that have basically gotten together and they have decided to sue the city of Philadelphia hoping to stay this mandate. So far, no success.

But their argument, according to their attorney, Pamela, is that the city of Philadelphia is not adhering to the CDC's own guidance by implementing this mandate again, and lastly at the end of the day, they feel it's still going to be bad for business.

And so these are challenges that we've seen in the past on successful challenges, but nonetheless, we have to see how that one pans out as we near tomorrow when those masks are supposed to come back on.

BROWN: All right. Polo Sandoval, thanks for bringing us the latest there in Philadelphia. So for perspective, let's bring in CNN Medical Analyst and Former Baltimore Health Commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, nice to see you. First off I'm going to get your reaction to Philadelphia reposing this mask mandate.

[21:30:00]

You have been critical of the idea that cases are the right metric for these sorts of policies. What do you make of this decision?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Look, I understand that they want to be safe, and that they are seeing cases rise. And so they want to say, Well, let's not wait until our hospitalizations start rising. But at the same time, at some point, we have to think about how mask mandates and other mitigation measures are to be used. They are a last resort, especially when we're talking about government

imposed mandates. And my fear is that if they keep on getting applied, when it's not really a last resort, when it's not really a crisis, it's the boy who cries Wolf.

And at some point when they are really needed, for example, if there's a really dangerous new variant, or hospitals really start getting full, then people are not going to follow them.

BROWN: And also, you know, that part of the mandate is, you wear a mask unless you can show proof of vaccination. But I mean, you can still easily get COVID even though you've been vaccinated from what we've seen, right?

WEN: Well, I will say that part of the Philadelphia mask mandate I like a lot, because it's something that encourages proof of vaccination. It's basically saying that workplaces where everybody's vaccinated, maybe they don't need to impose a mask mandate for their employees. I think that's really good. It is true that people who are vaccinated can still get COVID.

But the chance of someone vaccinated and boosted getting COVID is about three times less than somebody who is unvaccinated.

BROWN: And also ended up in the hospital. I mean, you know, if you're vaccinated, you get COVID, you're much less likely to end up in the hospital. Let's listen to what the White House COVID Response Coordinator had to say when he was asked if he is still a proponent of vaccine mandates for air travel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ASHISH JHA, COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE: Once vaccines became available, I thought it was very important to get as many Americans vaccinated as quickly as possible. And mandates worked. Mandates do work.

We are in a different position now, obviously, with more than 220 million Americans vaccinated, a 100 million people boosted. And so we really have to ask ourselves, what is the role of mandates moving forward? And we're going to need to assess each of these individual situations differently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, what do you think? Do you think this is something neither the airlines or the government should we consider?

WEN: Well, I don't think that vaccine mandates for air travel is going to happen, if it were going to happen, it would have happened a long time ago, during the Delta and Omicron surges. It's just not going to happen now when the case level is much lower than before.

But at the same time, I do think that having vaccine requirements, especially for private venues, like events, or restaurant or bars, that's a really good way to incentivize people to get vaccinated, and exactly as you were saying, vaccinations and boosters, they protect us extremely well against severe disease. And ultimately, that's the metric that we care about the most.

BROWN: In your Washington post column, you write the important question for people to ask now, as they make the risk calculations is, "How important is it for you to continue avoiding COVID?" So explain to us what you mean by that.

WEN: I think a lot of people have been trying to calculate what is the risk of getting COVID at an individual event? And that's really difficult to do. I actually think that the more important question to ask is, how much do you want to keep trying to avoid COVID? And I'm not trying to be cavalier here.

Of course, COVID is an extremely serious disease, especially pre- vaccines, we know that there are people who are still extremely vulnerable to it as well, people who are immunocompromised for elderly as an example. But I think for the majority of individuals who are vaccinated and boosted, they are very well protected against severe disease.

We also know that about 50 percent of Americans got Omicron during this last surge, and the chance of reinfection is very low. So I think people really need to ask themselves, what is the price I'm willing to pay to keep on avoiding COVID-19? Especially with an extremely contagious variants like BA-2, that price is very high.

And some people may want to keep on paying that price. But others may say it's really important for my children to not only be in school, but to engage in extracurriculars and camp. I now want to start going to weddings and funerals and birthday parties. And I think that those are all reasonable decisions that people can make.

Understanding that this is 2022. We have many different tools that we didn't have back in 2020 and 2021.

BROWN: I'm curious. Do you think that unvaccinated kids should still be wearing masks in schools, especially the ones who can't get vaccinated, right?

WEN: Well, I can tell you that my 4-1/2 year-old in preschool is not wearing a mask. And nearly all of his classmates and others in his class are not wearing masks anymore. This was something that my husband and I thought a lot about pre-Omicron our calculation was very different. We really wanted to keep on avoiding getting COVID until he was able to be vaccinated.

But then, Omicron is so contagious, so many people got Omicron and in addition, the vaccine for children it's going to be a few more months at least probably before kids are going to be vaccinated and then fully vaccinated.

[21:35:10]

WEN: And so for that reason, we decided that we're not going to take these extraordinary measures to try to avoid COVID including not masking our childhood in school.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Wen, thank you so much. This has been such a helpful conversation just to help us understand where we are in this pandemic. Thank you.

WEN: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, struggling to buy a house or pay the mortgage you already have. Realtor and investor, Johnny Hoang is here to share some helpful hacks. Up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, if you've been looking to buy a house recently, it has probably been very challenging. Prices are sky high, inventory is low. And it's especially difficult for first time buyers. And real estate experts say with rising interest rates, it is only going to get harder.

Realtor and investor, Johnny Hoang joins me now live to break it all down for us. Hi there, Johnny. So, why is the housing markets so chaotic right now?

JOHNNY HOANG, REALTOR, THE DAVID GREEN TEAM: Yes. I mean, that's a very good question. I feel like that's a million dollar question. And when it comes to looking at the housing market, I think one metric that we can use that has been very reliable is supply and demand.

[21:40:00]

HOANG: So what we're seeing right now have a supply is very low while demand is very high. So until we can see an increase in supply to absorb all that demand I think the probability of us remaining in this uptrend is going to remain high. And we're going to continue.

In addition to that, I feel like something that comes to mind that has to be considered as inflation, right? And the question that comes up when we talk about inflation is, do we think the value of the dollar is going to hold its value and/or appreciate over time compared it to an asset like real estate? And I think the people that understand this concept and can use it to their benefit can make it easier for us to recognize why there's been so much buying?

Because I mean, among the retail buyers that are purchasing right now, there's also the bigger players like the institutional players, those are going to be Redfins or Zillows, your Hedge Funds. And they are buying right now. So if smart-- money is buying, I think we have to pay attention to that.

BROWN: That's a really-- that's really great advice. So you mentioned inflation. Let's talk mortgage rates with the Fed raising interest rates to fight inflation this year. Rates have hit nearly five percent, that is the highest it's been in a decade. So how does that affect buyers?

HOANG: Yes. That's a very good question. I mean, interest rates have definitely made it tougher in terms of affordability standpoint, for some, but I also think it's a good thing. I think it's good for the people that have been trying to get into the market that are more qualified to get into the market. And by reducing the amount of people going after the same home that are on the fence in terms of their finances, and affordability, I also think that contributes to creating a more healthy economy.

It creates a balance and stability, and also creates a safer environment within the lending space to prevent things like mass foreclosures, and the negative impacts that we're seeing, or that we saw back then when we had those issues, right?

BROWN: Yes.

HOANG: So all in all I think it's great (ph), but I also think that there's other things that we can do to combat affordability outside just interest rates.

BROWN: And what is that.

HOANG: So other things I would recommend to combat this issue is, I mean, on the front end, you can be pretty creative and tactical about how you spend offers, like, for example, you can submit offers with a seller credit back, we can then use that to buy down the rate to lower the monthly payment, we can leverage different new loan products that are out there.

For example, there's a 40-year fixed instead of a 30-year, there's interest only payments as well, which reduces the payments quite heavily. And on top of that there are other strategies on the backend that we can use.

One that comes to mind that really contributes to affordability problems, I would say is called house hacking. This is something that we do very frequently. And what that is, is basically looking for a property that has an additional unit that we can rent out to then lower the cost of the monthly payment.

So these are going to be properties that have like additional studio in the back. They can be at garage conversion as well, or even as simple as looking for a property that has an extra couple bedrooms to then rent out to offset the cost to where you're comfortable. So I feel like that's if, if you like it (ph).

BROWN: You know, we started the conversation talking about supply and demand. When do you see all of this coming, evening out a little bit, balancing out?

HOANG: Yes. Sure. So I think a metric we can use to see if the market is pulling back would be how long the houses are sitting on the market, right? Because if the houses are getting 10, 15 offers every time they go on market, and they get off the market within two weeks, that tells us that the buyers are very strong, the demand is very high.

So, I think an indicator that we can use in a very good one at that is just how long these houses sit in the market?

BROWN: All right. I know a lot of people, you know, just having anecdotal conversations or saying oh gosh, I want to sell my house right now because the markets so hot, but then it's like, but then where are you going to move because it's hot everywhere? It still is, even with these interest rates rising. All right. Johnny Hoang, thank you so much. Great to have you on.

HOANG: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: Well, you're in the CNN Newsroom. The last living pilot of an iconic World War II bomb group's original crew in his own words. A biography of John "Lucky" Luckadoo now 100 years young is coming out. And he previews for us the experiences he says no one else ever had.