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Russian Missile Strikes Slam Western City of Lviv; Ukraine Says, Russia Bombarding East, Pushing to Luhansk and Donetsk Regions; Conflicting Views on Invasion Tear Russian Families Apart. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired April 18, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is why this is so smart, because even reasonable people, they refuse to believe, like, what, come on, poisoned, seriously?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: No surprise, the Kremlin and Russia's security services deny that they played any role in Navalny's poisoning.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv, in Western Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

This morning, at least seven people are dead and several others injured following missile strikes in Lviv.

SCIUTTO: Overnight, Russian forces struck at least three military installations as well as a tire repair shop. Those blasts, they shattered windows, homes, a school nearby one of the targets. Officials say at least one child among the injured in the east of the country.

That's where fighting is intensifying now, this new video out of Rubizhne shows fires erupting in buildings hit by heavy shelling. Ukraine says control over the city Kreminna has been lost now. And ahead of the Donetsk regional military region is reporting missile strikes in the city of Kramatorsk. Plus, chilling reports out of the southeast city port city of Mariupol, Russians telling Ukrainian forces to surrender or be eliminated.

And in a open letter to Pope Francis, a Ukrainian marine commander says that Mariupol is, quote, hell on earth now, begging the pope to help save the people who still remain in that city. Well, this morning here in Lviv, we were woken by air raid sirens and explosions. Russian forces launched cruise missiles on multiple targets in Lviv and this is what my team and I witnessed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This is the scene of one of the missile strikes this morning. You can see the emergency responders back here. But as we arrived, another air raid signal went off. Soldiers concerned that this will be a secondary strike on the same target. It's one of five missile strikes so far today in Lviv and they're expecting more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Ukrainian soldiers ordered us then behind a concrete barricade. They were concerned that more missiles could be on the way. We're also nervous about us filming any soldiers or military facilities. One soldier ran toward us, caulked his rifle, shouted at us to move back. Major concern is that, oftentimes, you can't see the missiles incoming. They move too fast. We took shelter.

Now, those sirens there, they were welcome. Those were the all-clear signals following the strikes. This is what's left behind. The strikes this morning damaging cars, they took down trees. We saw section of railroad track thrown dozens of yards by the force of the blast.

We should note again, the latest casualty toll, seven people dead, 11 wounded, one of those wounded, a child.

Let's begin this morning with CNN International Correspondent Matt Rivers. He's also here with me in Lviv this morning.

So, you and I dispatched this morning quickly to different sites of these explosion, a city in the west that had experienced something of a lull in the fighting and that broken today.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It had been several weeks since we have seen missile strikes in the city and you and I left the hotel right around the same time. You chased one plume of black smoke. I went to another one. And while you ended up in a military facility, I ended up at what was clearly just a civilian area.

And when we got there, what we saw was two buildings on fire. They were basically both destroyed, as you can see there. And the sign above one of those buildings just basically said it was an auto repair shop. And so that gave us an immediate indication that we were not looking at some military base. We were looking at a civilian target, as it were.

We spoke to one woman across the sheet, who was about 100 meters away or so from that blast, all of the windows in her building completely blown out. She was actually washing her face and she said the glass blew in on her and she was obviously terrified.

And then we did eventually make our way a little bit closer to that scene. We saw the impact crater. It was easily five meters or so across, quite a big strike, and we know that multiple people, according to the owner of that auto repair shop, was killed -- were killed as a result of the strike.

We asked him, is this a military target, have you done anything with the military, is there any reason why you would be targeted? And the owner said, no, this is an auto repair shop.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, there's a method to the madness because part of the Russian air terror campaign particularly to terrorize. And we've seen deliberate targeting of civilian apartment buildings, even some of the humanitarian corridors, so yet more evidence of that here in the west today.

[10:05:02]

RIVERS: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: Matt Rivers, glad you and your team are safe.

RIVERS: Yes, likewise.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much.

This morning, out in the east, ahead of the Luhansk regional military administration, says that the city of Kreminna is now lost.

CNN Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman, he's in Kramatorsk, in Eastern Ukraine. Ben, the official also said there are, quote, no safe places left in the Luhansk region. This is a harrowing development out east because Russia, as they withdrew from the north, concentrating their forces there and we're seeing the consequences, particularly for the civilian population.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. We are definitely seeing the consequences. What we know is that along the entire the eastern front of Ukraine, we are getting reports of intense artillery bombardment and, of course, the city of Kreminna, the town of Kreminna, according to Ukrainian officials, fell at 5:00 A.M. local time. That was 12 hours ago.

As the fighting -- and the fighting has been going on there for some time, but yesterday, we heard that it was basically impossible from local officials for people to evacuate from that town. Nonetheless, apparently, some people tried. There's reports that somebody -- five people were driving out in a private car. They were fired upon by Russian forces. Four people were killed. And according to this report, there is still one woman inside that car very badly injured. But because of the fighting around her, first responders cannot reach her.

Now, here in Kramatorsk overnight, there was a cruise missile strike. We went to the scene of that strike, a huge crater, there's still fragments of what we believe is a caliber missile, that's a Russian cruise missile. In that instance, there was a lot of broken glass in the surrounding buildings, but we understand there were no injuries. Now, we had an opportunity just a little while ago to speak with the mayor of Kramatorsk and he once again told us that he has been urging all residents of this town, two-thirds of whom have already left, but those who are remaining, he's been urging to leave, leave now because the fear is this Russian offensive may start at any moment. But we still see some people walking around Kramatorsk despite the danger staring in the face. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Ben, we're in the early stages of what U.S. military officials tell me will be a more intense stage of this campaign. Are you seeing -- you've covered this war really since the beginning. Are you seeing evidence of Russian advances in the east?

WEDEMAN: In terms of taking of territory, bits here and bits there. Obviously, Kreminna is one of the towns that most recently fell. But it's incremental, shall we say. There's a lot of Ukrainian forces in the area. Every day, we see more coming in on the road, we see them digging trenches, we see them laying mines, putting up barricades on the main roads. But, certainly, as time passes, the intensity of the bombardment is increasing.

And, of course, for instance, here, we're a good hour's drive from the frontline but we can hear, especially at night, sort of distant rumbles of constant bombardment, missile strikes, artillery and it definitely is increasing. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's going to be difficult. Ben Wedeman, thanks so much.

GOLODRYGA: Well, joining us now to discuss is former CIA Chief of Russia Operations Steve Hall. Steve, always great to have you on.

So, as this war enters its second phase now, we are learning that the U.S. is expanding the intelligence that it has sharing with the Ukrainians now to encompass the Donbas region and Crimea. How significant is that?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Bianna, I think it's really important that the Ukrainians obviously receive all the intelligence that they possibly can, not just from the United States but also from our European allies, sometimes referred to some of the countries as the five eyes. We have very good intelligence capabilities, not only on the tactical military front but also on the more strategic front in terms of where things happen in the future. And I think it's really important that that sharing increase.

There is always a bit of a concern when you're sharing this kind of intelligence because, of course, the Russians are working hard on their side to also collect intelligence and find out what's going on and they probably had their own spies inside of Ukraine and even perhaps inside the Ukrainian government. So, when you're sharing with a country at war, you also risk some of that information coming out.

But we've seen the administration has been very aggressive about passing that information to the Ukrainians and I think it's very important. [10:10:05]

SCIUTTO: Steve, President Zelenskyy told our colleague, Jake Tapper, that Ukraine will not cede any territory as part of any eventual possible peace agreement. But as we see Russia not only hold on to territory it's held since 2014 but expand those holdings in the south and the east, is that a realistic hope for Ukraine or is that territory under Russian control becoming, you know, as we say, facts on the ground?

HALL: I think this is indicative, Jim, of where we are in this war. I think both sides are a little more geared up. The Russians are still stinging, of course, from their defeats in the west, although they're still attacking using, you know, far off weapons systems, like cruise missiles and so forth, but they're still striking across the country to show that they can. And they're really bearing down, of course, as you're all seeing on the ground there in the east.

But the Ukrainians themselves, of course, are still feeling that, look, they can beat the Russians, as they did in the west. So, I don't think either side right now is prepared to say, okay, let's sit down and talk. But, eventually, strategically, somebody is going to have to come to some sort of agreement. Either -- obviously, the Ukrainians would like to kick the Russians out completely, probably to include Crimea, but certainly out of Donbas, and the Russians, at some point, if it continues to go poorly for them, might do something like they did with Finland in 1939, which is to say, okay, look, we're going to hack off a part of your country, perhaps the Donbas, in exchange for you remaining a country.

So, what we'll have to see, I don't think we're there yet. Those discussions aren't going to happen until one side or the other, or perhaps both are like, look, we've got to figure out a way out of this that's not military.

GOLODRYGA: Steve, how do you do that when you have seen Vladimir Putin continue to lie, first of all, not even acknowledge that Ukraine is a legitimate country, but now this is his second encroachment into this sovereign country, obviously annexing Crimea and now going back in and going back in for the country en masse? How do you negotiate with someone like that, even if it buys you a few months, a year, how do you move on as a thriving, successful country with Vladimir Putin in charge?

HALL: Yes. And believe me, Bianna, I don't trust Vladimir Putin any more than you do or anybody than anybody who's tried to negotiate or really talk with him. He is a bit of a wild card right now because we have been describing him, I think, correctly as sort of having painted himself into a corner. It's clear he's not going to be able to, I think, win and control all of Ukraine, which makes me think that, over the long run, he might be looking at a smaller piece.

But you're absolutely right. How do you negotiate with somebody that you simply cannot trust who has boldfaced lied to people who have been able to see better in the west, and we have press that indicates what's really going on? He could lie to his own people. That's a little bit easier. But the west, throughout our history, whether it's the United States or our western allies, have been forced to negotiate with people who have exhibited bad faith in the past. So, it's doable, it just get to the point of where are the pressure points in the Kremlin and identifying those and pushing on them?

SCIUTTO: Yes. They used to say, and those agreements with the Soviet Union, trust and verify, and then modify. Negotiations with Iran is verified but verify. We'll see what follows.

Steve Hall, thanks so much.

HALL: Sure.

GOLODRYGA: And ahead this hour, we speak to the mayor of Melitopol. He was once captured by the Russian. He will now be joining us from Rome. What his city needs right now.

And Pope Francis had a direct message for him and his fellow Ukrainians this weekend. That's next.

Plus, I'll speak with a young Russian who was actually disowned by his mother for voicing his opposition to the war in Ukraine. All of that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

GOLODRYGA: We're going to take you straight to the White House where President Biden is speaking at the White House egg roll.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: -- this Easter egg roll last year because of the pandemic. But this year, we're finally getting together again. And it's so special. It means so much to see and here the children and all the families show up to be here today. The joy, the laughter and the occasional, at least what my young grandson who's only two, the occasional, there's the Easter bunny, little startled sometimes. But the joy and the laughter is something that's kind of a wonderful tradition here in the White House for a long, long time.

I especially want to thank the White House Historical Association, the National Park Service and America's Aid Board for all their hard work to make this day possible. Let's give them a round of applause. All of you, have fun today. Welcome to the White House. Welcome to your house. Welcome to the south lawn. Thank you and Happy, Happy Easter.

GOLODRYGA: There you hear the president, first lady wishing warm Easter wishes, restoring a tradition that was obviously paused last year. The White House egg roll there during the pandemic is back this year. The president welcoming those people who came to watch it at the White House.

Jim, over to you in Lviv.

SCIUTTO: Happy scene back there in Washington. Well, here in Ukraine, Russia refocusing its forces on the east in the Donbas region. As it does, a group of Ukrainian lawmakers traveled across Europe asking for more aid for their war-torn country. One of those lawmakers is Ivan Fedorov. He is the mayor of Melitopol in the southeastern part of this country. Russians captured the city early in the war. They abducted Fedorov, holding him captive for five days. I spoke with him about his mission now and the challenges a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: You have said that more than 200 people have been kidnapped, abducted by Russian forces. Do you know the fate of those people right now?

MAYOR IVAN FEDOROV, MELITOPOL, UKRAINE: Not for all people because many of them were kidnapped by Russian soldiers and hold in many places. And so we don't know where they're situated.

SCIUTTO: Now, you yourself were abducted for a number days. Russia has also been forcing refugees as they leave the country to go to Russia and not where they want to go. Do you understand what Russia's plan is with these people? Is Putin imitating Stalin by doing this?

FEDOROV: Yes, Russian soldiers want to show for all if they're civilian people or activists or politics in Ukraine, the (INAUDIBLE) didn't agree with Russian politics. And Russian soldiers, they will kidnap them, torture them and we see examples in Ukraine when they kill politics and activists, and it's very dangerous to be -- not agree to these Russians. That's why the citizens of Ukraine now leave to occupy the cities and go out from occupied cities and stay at cities that control Ukrainian government.

SCIUTTO: Yes. We have been following the Ukrainian resistance for weeks now and it's been impressive. Russian forces, though, are making gains in the east and the south. And officials in Luhansk in the east now are telling civilians, there's no safe place for them there anymore. I wonder, do you worry that Ukraine is now losing the war in the east?

FEDOROV: I don't think that we will lose the war in the east. I know that we'll win this war, but Ukrainian soldiers, of course, deliver many trucks, many special military cars and other techniques. That is why now Ukraine needs support from all (INAUDIBLE) countries, USA, European Union. We need support of weapons of military cars and other techniques to make good war and make go out Russian soldiers from our territory, from Luhansk, Donbas and Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region.

SCIUTTO: President Zelenskyy told my colleague this weekend that Ukraine will not give up any territory for peace. But given Russia's hold on Crimea, Russia's hold on large parts of the east for nearly ten years now, and the advances they've made in recent days, do you think that's realistic, realistic that Ukraine can avoid giving up any territory?

FEDOROV: Of course, it's realistic, because we must be united (INAUDIBLE) one must make a great assumption to Russian Federation and Russian Federation must give back our territories. As for Crimea, as for Donbas and Luhansk, of course, I think it's possible to come back for our territories. And I don't understand why they must give some territories for the Russian Federation. Why they must.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's a very good question. It certainly violates international laws, as it stands.

You've been in Rome. You were able to attend a service led by Pope Francis. And he specifically mentioned you and the other Ukrainian officials there with you. What was his message to you and were you welcoming it?

FEDOROV: We (INAUDIBLE) Pope Francis, the pope, to describe him and on Vatican the realistic situation now in Ukraine, realistic humanitarian situation in Ukraine and, of course, humanitarian catastrophe that's now situated in many occupied cities, and especially humanitarian situation in Mariupol. We ask the pope to include to this protest and to help us to solve this problem because Pope Francis have the greatest authority all over the world, and, of course, he can help us and he can include cardinals, include by himself to protest in Mariupol and try to help us create civilian and other peoples from Mariupol. It's task number one.

And, of course, we invite Pope Francis to visit Ukraine, and by himself, show the ultimate goal the strong position of Vatican in support of Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Did he say he would visit?

FEDOROV: I hope.

SCIUTTO: Well, we will be watching. Mayor Fedorov, we know you have so much difficult work to return to here in Ukraine and we wish you the best of luck.

FEDOROV: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: that must have been quite a special moment, meeting with the pope.

Well, up next, a situation too many of us may be familiar with, families torn apart by politics. A young Russian actor says his mother told him not to come home simply because he opposes the war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

GOLODRYGA: Conflicting views on the war in Ukraine are tearing some Russian families apart. My next guest says his mother called him a traitor and disowned him after he said he was against Russia's invasion. After posting his views online, Russian model and actor Jean-Michel Shcherbak says his mother blocked him. When he decided to leave country, he sent her money, while in return, she sent him this message, don't send anything, I will just send it back. I don't communicate with Russophobes and traitors to the mother land. I sincerely wish that you would give up your Russian passport and leave this country in any direction. You are no longer my son. There will be no traitors in my family.

Well, joining me now is Jean-Michel Shcherbak, he is now in Germany after leaving Russia. Jean-Michel, thank you so much for joining us. I've been following you and your posts for a long time, before this war. I'm sorry things have taken such a dark turn and I'm sorry about what's happened with your mother.

What made you publicly post these messages?

JEAN-MICHEL SHCHERBAK, DISOWNED BY MOTHER AFTER REFUSING TO SUPPORT RUSSIAN INVASION: Well, thank you for inviting me. I learned about the things happening in Russia from my friends because I have lots of friends living in Ukraine. And I woke up on the 24th of February. I turned on my phone and I got messages from a few of my friends from Ukraine and they said that Russia is bombing Ukraine right now.

And my visit, I've been to Ukraine a few times.

[10:30:05]

The last time I was there, it was in Oltun (ph).