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Heaving Fighting in Eastern Ukraine; Civilians Shelter in Mariupol Steel Factory; Paul Eaton and Shawn Turner are Interviewed about the War in Ukraine; Airlines Drop Mask Rule; Judge Voids Mask Mandate. Aired 9:00-9:30a ET

Aired April 19, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:38]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: The battle for Donbas is underway. Russian forces launching a new large-scale offensive in eastern Ukraine this morning as Russia says phase two of its special military operation has begun.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

Happening right now, Russian troops breaking through Ukraine's front lines. New video in to CNN shows a column of Russian military vehicles headed toward the city of Izium, as forces build in the eastern part of the country.

In the besieged port of Mariupol, plumes of smoke rising from a steel plant under intense Russian bombardment. It's one of the last areas in the city under Ukrainian control.

And Ukraine says dozens of families have been sheltering there for weeks. This photo purportedly shows men, women and children at that facility. They say conditions there are deteriorating with food and water very limited at this hour.

And later this hour, President Biden is set to hold a video call with allies in the Situation Room as the White House considers new sanctions on Russia.

Let's begin this morning with CNN correspondent Matt Rivers. He's reporting live from Lviv, in western Ukraine.

Matt, Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russian forces have started this phase two battle for Donbas in eastern Ukraine. What are you seeing there on the ground this morning?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna, I think it's safe to say that this is a turning point in this war. I think this Russian offensive that is now officially begun in the east, this is something that we've been talking about for days, if not weeks now, the expectation that this offensive would become.

And yesterday afternoon, starting with regional military officials in places like Luhansk, and then going all the way to President Zelenskyy himself last night in his address to the nation, they're saying that this offensive has begun. And this is going to be a very different battle than what we have seen in the earlier days of the war during, for example, Russia's failed attempt to take the capital city of Kyiv.

This is going to be a battle that could be bloodier. It could be longer. We're going to be talking about the results of all this, not in a matter hours or days, but over the course of several weeks as we see a renewed Russian effort to try and take the Donbas region. That is the stated objective here. They have thrown tens of thousands of troops into the mix, more artillery, more tanks. You might see the kind of tank battles that Europe has not seen since World War II. That is something that Ukrainian officials say that they have been preparing for, for a while now.

Just last hour we heard from the head of the Donetsk regional military administration. Here's a little bit of what he had to say.

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PAVLO KYRYLENKO, HEAD OF DONETSK REGION MILITARY ADMINISTRATION (through translator): The Ukrainian armed forces are prepared for this offensive. The offensive has already begun at the border with Kharkiv region and towards Lumansk (ph), Ramada (ph), which is a town and -- over there and there are active hostilities in this town.

The enemy is changing tactic. And that is confirmed. And that is -- the reason for that is that it has suffered losses, losses in terms of heavy artillery, in terms of its weapons and also personnel. And these losses are felt by the Russian Federation itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS: Now, we did see the Ukrainians say yesterday that Russian forces have occupied the town of Kreminna. However, in other places along the front lines, Ukrainian defense officials say they are holding fast at this point. It doesn't appear that Russia has conducted some sort of breakout operation, where we're seeing the Ukrainian front lines fall backwards. This is going to be fierce fighting over the coming weeks.

Meanwhile, we're hearing from the heads of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions who are urging any remaining civilians to evacuate as soon as possible as fighting reaches town after town after town with one regional official saying what we're seeing in Kreminna, for example, the Russian forces taking over, they're calling the citizens that refuse to leave that city before that happened, they're saying they're now essentially hostages to Russia. That is something that Ukrainian officials are trying to repeat happening, Bianna, in other places in the east.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, they have been warning citizens there to leave for the past two weeks now.

Matt Rivers, thank you. Well, this morning, Ukrainian officials say Russian forces are

shelling the Azovstal steel factory in the besieged city of Mariupol, as hundreds of people, including women and children, have been sheltering inside that plant for weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS (voice over): I'm with my three children, and conditions are not the best here, this parent says.

[09:05:05]

There's no way to study. Not much food. And my kid's teeth are starting to spoil.

We play with these toys, build things and imagine things, this little boy says.

Do you want to get out of here, they're asked. Yes, yes, they all shout.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Just unimaginable what those children are experiencing.

CNN's senior correspondent Ed Lavandera is in the capital city of Kyiv.

Ed, what is the latest we're hearing out of Mariupol?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, just a few hours ago, Russian military officials said that they had extended an offer of surrender to those forces inside that steel factory. That deadline has come and gone about four hours ago. No indication that the Ukrainian forces and civilians inside that steel factory accepted that offer.

This isn't new. There was a similar offer made on Sunday that was ignored as well. And Ukrainian military officials are -- military units inside that steel factory have been saying that they will continue fighting to the end.

But we understand that the shelling of that steel factory continues. It just seems like it's an unimaginable, horrific situation there inside that steel factory given what has happened in that city over the last several weeks. But somehow they continue to maintain and continue fighting from that position. Exactly how much longer they will be able to hold on is not clear.

Also complicating things today is that any kind of efforts to evacuate civilians through humanitarian corridors seems completely closed at this point. Ukrainian officials say that all humanitarian corridors essentially don't exist today. So anyone trying to escape from that area would essentially be doing it on their own. And it's, you know, hard to put into words just how dangerous that would be for any kind of civilian leaving these areas that have had such intense shelling, and under heavy Russian control at this point. So, we will continue to monitor that situation, but that the -- the

scene in Mariupol just seems to get more dire and dire by the hour.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, I mean, a mother describing her children's teeth starting to rot, it can't get much worse than that.

Ed Lavandera, thank you.

Well, as pockets of Ukrainian troops in Mariupol continue to hold out, despite overwhelming odds, new video posted Monday by the Azov Battalion shows Ukrainian forces ambushing a Russian military convoy. CNN has geolocated and verified the authenticity of the vehicle, but it's unclear when the ambush occurred. Video taken by a drone shows Ukrainian troops creeping toward a stopped Russian convoy of six vehicles. There are edits between the scenes in the video, but after one of the edits you can see at least three Russian vehicles on fire.

Well, joining me now to discuss is Retired Army Major General Paul Eaton. He is the commanding general of the coalition military assistance training team in Iraq, and Shawn Turner, former director of communication for U.S. National Intelligence.

Welcome, both of you.

General, let me begin with you, because we keep talking about what this next phase of this war is going to look like. And I keep hearing more and more analysis that it's going to be more of a set piece type battle, reminiscent of what we saw out of World War II. As opposed to this street to street, you know, guerrilla warfare that we saw surrounding cities like Kyiv, talk about what we can expect to see in the weeks ahead.

MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL, COALITION MILITARY ASSISTANCE TRAINING TEAM IN IRAQ: Thank you, Bianna.

So, it's going to be very reminiscent of what never happened along the inter-German border and the rest of the border between the Warsaw Pact nations and NATO. We trained for it. We saw what the Soviet Union at that time was going to do. We knew their order of battle. We knew that they would lead with a terrific amount of artillery and rockets, that the fire would be concentrated, frequently indiscriminate. And if you happen to be under the cone of fire there, it would be a very difficult day.

So, this force will lead with artillery. That's the way the Russian army still operates. And once you have a preparation of the battlefield with artillery, that can be hours or days or longer, you'll see the appearance of armored infantry and tanks with their reconnaissance vehicles out front to find and then coordinate it -- local attacks on defending forces.

So, it's going to be attrition warfare. It tends to be a grinding, slow, high casualty assault. And it is -- it's going to be tough for the Ukrainians.

Now, what we have done and what the Ukrainians have prepared for is a high mobility defense so that they can move forces laterally in the battlefield to be able to achieve mass, when necessary. to meet this Russian onslaught.

[09:10:15]

GOLODRYGA: Shawn, I guess the question now turns to whether or not all of the weapons that the U.S. and the west has been providing Ukraine is adequate to handle this next phase of the battle. President Zelenskyy continues to say that he needs more. The U.S. is sending over $800 million worth of weaponry and said that they are open to additional tranches.

I'm just curious, given the time frame here, given the difficulty of getting that weaponry to the eastern part of the country, how realistic is it that they're going to have everything they need right now?

SHAWN TURNER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, U.S. NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, Bianna, thanks for having me.

I think we need to be very clear here that with regard to the difficulty of the fight that's coming for the Ukrainians, despite all of the aid that the United States is providing, it's -- it is going to be a very challenging battle in the Donbas region.

Now, I do think that because of the rapidity with which the administration was able to approve this package and is looking to move this equipment into place, it certainly is going to help the Ukrainians who, look, to be clear, you know, they've -- I give them a slight advantage here, at least from the perspective of understanding the terrain and understanding at least they're going to have some knowledge as to how to use these weapons. But it doesn't change the fact that it's go to be a difficult battle.

With regard to whether or not it tips the scales, look, you know, the Ukrainians have surprised us at every turn throughout the last nearly two months. And so I think that we can't underestimate them. I think the combination of good intelligence, which they've been getting from the United States and other western nations, plus the combination of not only new weapons, but new weapons systems and the rapid nature in which they're going to use those weapons systems and their understanding of the terrain means that this is not going to be a walk in the park for -- for Russia.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

TURNER: This is going to be difficult for Russia. It's also going to be difficult for Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: Russia does have some advantages here. And it was interesting to hear President Zelenskyy, in a recent interview, say that it would be wrong to assume that Russia is near capitulation at this point. In fact, they're trying to double down, desperate, General, for a victory to give Vladimir Putin.

I was curious to get your thoughts to something that a Ukrainian official said was what he believed a timetable of the eastern orthodox church and its celebration of Easter, which would be the 24th, this Sunday, the prize to give Vladimir Putin by that date would be the entirety of the Donetsk and Luhansk region. How realistic would that be and how important is it for Vladimir Putin and his perspective to have a prize of that sort.

General.

EATON: Is that question for me?

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

EATON: OK.

Indeed, symbols are very important at the political level and Vladimir Putin is very much in need of a symbol of success. And Ukrainians are going to work very hard to make sure that that doesn't happen.

I -- Shawn's assessment is superb. And I will give it to the Ukrainians, never underestimate the impact of morale on execution of military activities. The Ukrainians want victory. They want a piece of the Russians. They want to very much provide President Zelenskyy his day in the sun for this.

So, I would expect that we're going to see a failure on the part of the Russians to achieve the timeline they want. And this is also including the 9 May celebrations of the end of World War II that Mr. Putin has got to deal with.

So, I'll -- my vote -- my bet is on the Ukrainian defense of this region.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, can't overstate the importance of morale. And that is something that the Russian troops apparently do not have at this point.

Major General Paul Eaton and Shawn Turner, thank you.

EATON: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, up next, a major headline we're following here in the U.S., a federal court's ruling that effectively makes masks optional on public transportation. And now Uber is joining major airlines in dropping their mask mandates as well. Much more on that up next.

And later I'll speak live to the mayor of Mykolaiv, Ukraine, a city that has been on the front line of attack -- of Russian attacks. What he's expecting as this second phase of the war begins.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto, live once again in Lviv, Ukraine.

The former U.S. ambassador to this country, Marie Yovanovitch, you may remember the role she played in Trump's first impeachment investigation. She's going to join me ahead.

[09:14:56]

We will get her take on whether the west is doing enough to help Ukraine win and save civilian lives here.

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GOLODRYGA: New this morning, Uber says masks are now optional for passengers and drivers. It's the latest company to drop their mandate following most major airlines in the U.S. after a judge in Florida struck down the Biden administration's requirement for masks on public transportation.

CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is live at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C.

So, Pete, this could apply to buses and trains as well. But there was a big reaction to this news as it came out on flights. A lot of screams for joy. Talk about what you've seen.

[09:20:01]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna, you know, we're seeing about 50/50 here at Reagan National Airport of folks wearing masks versus not wearing masks. I have to admit, a little surreal to not be wearing a mask doing a live shot inside here at Reagan National Airport, a place where I've been wearing a mask since the early days of the pandemic.

You know, this applied, this federal mask mandate, starting in February 2021, the early days of the Biden administration. It was extended again until May 3rd on planes, trains, buses, boats and also here in terminals. But after that U.S. district judge decision by Kathryn Kimball Mizelle yesterday really threw the travel industry into disarray. It wasn't until the White House said that this would not be in effect pending a federal review that things really started to change.

In fact, not long after that, the TSA said the transportation mask mandate would no longer be enforced. We heard the announcement come down almost in real time during flights, midflight, which is so interesting.

In fact, I want you to listen now to some of the travelers at Newark's LaGuardia Airport yesterday really celebrating in a way after this announcement really came down. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're comfortable without a mask. I feel very safe, especially since airplanes are one of the safest indoor places, you know, that I don't think masks are necessary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even in traveling here in being in downtown in New York and everybody not wearing -- able to not wear masks and things, I felt much more comfortable keeping mine on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Remember, this was one of the last major mask mandates to remain in place. No major airline has said that they will not follow the court order here and the edict from the TSA and the White House. We will not see airlines marketing on being the one that wears masks or requires masks for their passengers. Essentially airlines are saying this is now optional for passengers and employees.

Remember that airline workers have been on the front lines of enforcing the transportation mask mandate. They will still be able to wear one if they want to. But according to the latest FAA data, about 70 percent of all unruly passenger incidents had to do with masks. That's just this year alone.

You mentioned Uber. Also Amtrak making it optional for passengers to wear a mask. We will see as the word trickles out here which places will still require masks and which won't.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: A real milestone in this pandemic.

Pete Muntean, thank you.

Well, joining me now to discuss is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Dr. Gupta, I want to get you to respond to what former White House Adviser Andy Slavitt said this morning in that this decision should have come from the CDC and not from a judge. Do you agree with that?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course. I mean, you know, this is a public health decision. And what the CDC has basically said is, look, BA.2, this new variant, is, obviously, circulating quickly. We still need to get an idea of just how transmissible it is. It is true that airplanes have been generally one of the safest environments because of the air exchange and ventilation. But when you have a really transmissible virus, how much of a problem is that going to be? So they basically said, we want till May 3rd.

I think what really struck me, Bianna, was that it did not come from a public health agency, it came a judge. And also there was no phasing in. I mean there were people who were on planes who were comfortable because they're in a masked environment, maybe they have kids who are not able yet to be vaccinated, people who are vulnerable, that they work with, whatever it may be, and all of a sudden they were thrust into this environment. So, I think that's what really made it challenging, the fact that it was a legal thing and that it was so abrupt.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and this judge came to this decision without even a hearing, which was a bit of a head scratcher there too.

You mentioned how transmissible this new variant is. Cases are on the rise. And we also know that health officials fear positive infections are actually being widely underreported. So here we are again. Why is this happening?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, this is one of those things where, Bianna, we've always been struggling with testing overall in this country in one way or another. I mean I've said it was the original sin, I think, in so many ways, the lack of testing or the lack of verifiable testing.

There's this organization called the Institute for Health Metrics Evaluation, which basically said that right now they're probably capturing -- we, as a country, are probably capturing about 7 percent of the positive tests. And the reason that's happening is because so many tests are being done at home, and there's no verification necessary for many of those tests.

So, if you think about that, I mean, you know, take the number that you see on any given day, around 30,000, 32,000, and multiply that times 14 roughly is what the IHME says is probably a more accurate number. And that's important. I mean in some ways it makes the case that the likelihood of getting sick or dying as a percentage is much lower because the denominator is much higher.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

[09:25:03]

GUPTA: But, overall, it would give more guidance to communities and even decisions like the one we just heard about, airline travel, better data upon which to make those decisions.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, listen, the mask mandate is now gone, but that doesn't mean that people can't still wear their masks, right?

GUPTA: That's right.

GOLODRYGA: And hold on to them. So people still have that option as well and many people are choosing to continue wearing their masks.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you.

GUPTA: Thanks, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the mayor of Mykolaiv is now vowing to rebuild his city after Russian attacks devastated. After the break, I'll talk to the mayor about what's the greatest need right now for the people remaining in Mykolaiv and how they're finding their strength to keep fighting.

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