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Mariupol Survivor Speaks Out; Putin's Threats. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 20, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Teaching kids that some are oppressors is just as bad as teaching other kids that they're always going to be victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Scott is the only black Republican senator. He says he is passionate about the GOP becoming -- quote -- "the party of parents."

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for being with us.

We begin this hour with an unsettling escalation in the messaging and muscle flexing from Vladimir Putin. A short time ago, Russia announced a test launch of its new intercontinental ballistic missile. And, ominously, Putin had this to say -- quote -- "This truly unique weapon will strengthen the combat potential of our armed forces, reliably ensure Russia's security from external threats and provide food for thought for those who, in the heat of frenzied, aggressive rhetoric, try to threaten our country" -- end quote.

The chest-beating propaganda could be an attempt to distract from the reality in Ukraine. For example, Ukrainian forces are holding off Russia's offensive in the eastern Donbass region, at least for now. But in the southern port city of Mariupol, at the bottom center of your screen there, the situation is even more dire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAJ. SERHII VOLYNA, COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN 36TH SEPARATE MARINE BRIGADE: We might have only a few days or even hours left. The enemy's units are 10 times larger than ours. We appeal to the world leaders to help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN has learned that the U.S. is racing to assemble a new weapons package for Ukraine, but time is running out at that bombed- out steel factory in Mariupol. The factory is at the epicenter now of the city's resistance.

A new Russian deadline for Mariupol to surrender has come and gone. And the Ukrainian forces and hundreds of civilians are just bracing for the worst. In the face of relentless bombardment, the mayor of Mariupol is calling on civilians to evacuate through a humanitarian corridor.

The question, as always, is whether Russia will honor that safe passage.

We're following all the angles, from Ukraine, to the White House, to the Pentagon.

Let's begin with Matt Rivers in Lviv in Western Ukraine.

Matt, Mariupol appears to be on the brink of Russian capture. What is the latest?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's been that way for weeks now, Ana. And we keep saying that. And you're not wrong to say that.

It seems every day that they get closer and closer to basically being taken by the Russians. And yet they still hold out. We have heard from the marine commander of the Ukrainian marines that are currently holed up inside that steel plant. We have also spoken to other members of fighting units there. And they tell us they have no plans to surrender.

However, they do want to evacuate. That is without question. We did see today a humanitarian corridor open up in Mariupol for the first time in a while. This was after it was agreed upon between Russia and Ukraine. The question has been all day, though, how effective was that humanitarian corridor? It's very difficult to get information out of the city because of just the horrific amount of damage that's been done to the communications infrastructure in the city.

After weeks of fighting, it's very hard for CNN to independently verify what is going on there, just because it's hard to get in contact with people. But what we have heard from regional officials, including the governor of Donetsk, as well as the mayor of Mariupol, is that it does seem that some people were able to get out of that city, although regional officials saying not as many people got on the buses that they had lined up to take people eventually to a Ukrainian- controlled city a little bit further north of Mariupol. So, some people got out today, Ana, but we're not exactly sure how

many. Who didn't get out mainly were the people that are still inside that Azovstal steel plant, hundreds of civilians in there. Also, some tens of thousands of citizens remain in Mariupol, who still are in need of evacuation, so just a fraction of that number getting out today.

Meanwhile, just briefly, in the eastern part of the country, where we're watching this renewed Russian offensive, and both U.K. and U.S. defense officials, along with their Ukrainian counterparts, saying no breakthrough by Russian forces in the east. There remains heavy fighting at this point.

But it does appear that the front lines that have been established out there have held for now, other than the Ukrainian city of Kreminna falling, which we reported yesterday. Other than that, it does appear that Ukrainian forces are holding strong against their Russian counterparts.

But I should note this is something we're going to be watching for weeks. This battle will not be over in days. It will be weeks of protracted fighting that Ukrainian officials say could be bloodier than anything we have seen so far, Ana.

CABRERA: You're doing excellent reporting. Thank you for all of that.

Stand by with me, Matt, as I head to the Pentagon and CNN's Barbara Starr.

Barbara, the Pentagon says it was aware of this ICBM test launch ahead of time. Can you tell us about the notification process?

[13:05:06]

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, this is pretty -- actually pretty standard.

Intercontinental ballistic missile, obviously, the longest range, theoretically capable of striking the U.S., if that was an intention -- certainly does not appear to be that way. So, these kinds of long- range missiles have a very standard international notification procedure. The U.S. does it. The Russians did at this time. They followed the international procedure, and notified proper authorities that they were going to conduct this test. And they did.

The Pentagon says they were aware of it, they knew the test window -- launch window was open. They do not see it as a threat. It was routine. They don't see it of particular concern. They know that this is a program that Russians have been working on. And this is a missile that eventually is expected to replace a Soviet era intercontinental ballistic missile, more modern, more capable.

They're aware of Vladimir Putin's rhetoric about all of this, but, at least for now, they see it as routine. And they were able to monitor the test. U.S. satellites, U.S. intelligence assets routinely monitor missile launches around the world. They can see the track. They can see the infrared, the heat signature when the missile launches.

And they're able to calculate the where it's going to land. And this one landed, as expected, in the far east of Russia after being launched from the north of the country. So it all went as the Pentagon expected, but it doesn't mean they aren't, of course, keeping a close eye on all of it -- Ana.

CABRERA: So, Barbara, if this is not perceived by the U.S. as a threat, why did the U.S. cancel its own ICBM test launch last month out of concern that it could be perceived as escalatory?

STARR: Yes, I think that's a really good question to which right now we probably don't have a really good answer.

And you're absolutely right. The U.S. conducts a number of these similar test launches, internationally notified. They mainly come out of Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. And the missile during the test heads west out over the Pacific. And they did. First, they postponed and then they canceled because they thought it could open the door to misinterpretation by the Russians.

So, now we will have to watch and see if the U.S. test goes back on the calendar.

CABRERA: Let's head to Jeremy at the White House.

Jeremy, sources tell CNN the U.S. is prepping another $800 million weapons package for Ukraine. What are you learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ana.

Look, this will come a week after President Biden issued that last $800 million of security assistance for Ukraine. That came last week. And now, in a matter of days, perhaps, the U.S. will issue another $800 million of security assistance to Ukraine, according to multiple senior administration officials.

Now, this package is still very much in the works, still being discussed between officials at the White House, at the Pentagon, and throughout the government. But it could come in a matter of days. And it does reflect the sense of urgency that you feel inside the White House and in other parts of the federal government here about the need, the dire need, to assist Ukraine for -- in this battle that it is now facing with Russia in Eastern Ukraine in that Donbass region.

And that's why you saw last week that $800 million package included heavy artillery. You can expect that more of that will come. President Biden yesterday was asked whether the U.S. plans to send additional artillery to Ukraine. He said yes.

So we will see what shape this package takes exactly, but clearly a sign that this war is entering a critical stage, and the U.S. needs to provide Ukraine with the kinds of weapons it can use for that battle specifically.

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond, Barbara Starr and Matt Rivers, my thanks to all of you.

Joining us now is retired Major General Paul Eaton.

General Eaton, here's the state of play. Russia is bragging about testing an ICBM, maybe trying to project power, as the U.S. assesses Russia has so far made no major gains territorially in the east. Does any of this surprise you?

MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Ana, let's talk about initiatives.

Right now. NATO, the West, and, by extrapolation, the United States has surrendered all open initiative to a Third World dictator who is armed with nuclear weapons. This is not a great position for the West to be in right now.

And the fact that we suspended a similar test in order to avoid a implied threat to the Russian president is also pretty bad news for the West.

CABRERA: So...

EATON: At some point -- go ahead.

CABRERA: So what does the U.S. need to do?

EATON: So, at some point, the United States, NATO, the West need to sit down, war-game what is our response going to be for X provocative action, and then to deliver that.

[13:10:11]

Right now, Mr. Putin is operating in the context of what we call a policy of strategic ambiguity. He is throwing spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks, to see what the reaction that he's going to get. And this is a very dangerous state of play. It's a dangerous state of play for everybody, but particularly for Mr. Putin.

Right now, the United States needs to start moving in the direction of initiative. I would start with the Black Sea. It is not a Russian lake. I would tell NATO that we need to start moving significant naval assets from NATO into the Black Sea, start shadowing Russian ships, start giving Mr. Putin something to think about

We need to do our own missile test. These are not provocative actions. These are part of a chess play that this particular Third World dictator is applying to the West.

CABRERA: You sound frustrated that Putin is able to sort of do as he wants right now, it appears.

EATON: Ana, you could substitute Kim Jong-un for Vladimir Putin, a nuclear-armed state.

There was a movie a long time ago called "The Mouse That Roared." And it's a -- it was a comedy. But we're here now. We have got a roaring mouse in Russia. And we have got a roaring mouse in North Korea. And the West has got to figure out what we are going to do about a destabilizing policy driven by people who are not in a position really to do it.

CABRERA: And yet, again, I come back to this assessment by the U.S. that there have been no major territorial gains for Russia since the start of this new push in the Donbass region.

And, all along, we have been reporting that they were much more positioned to succeed in this area. So what do you think is Russia's problem on the ground there? Are you surprised that they aren't making more progress more quickly there in terms of their objective?

EATON: Surprise is eroding over time with the compounding incompetence demonstrated by the Russian army.

I don't expect this particular assault to go much better than it -- than the action on Kyiv earlier, a couple of months ago. The new general has the old problems. He's got the logistics problems. He's got the morale problems. He has demonstrated incompetence on communications and combined arms warfare, the integrated -- integration of all the ground and air forces that the United States has perfected.

I don't expect it to get much better, which leaves us with a really other big problem. Mr. Putin, when he was the national security adviser equivalent in Russia, developed a policy of so-called nuclear de-escalation, the use of a small nuclear weapon to serve notice that, albeit things may be going badly for the Russians, they're not out of -- they're not out of Schlitz.

And this -- we're entering a very potentially difficult time, a nuclear test, a test of an ICBM, and a Putin-delivered policy years ago of de-escalation with the intent to use a small nuclear weapon. So the West has got to start upping the game of, if this, then that.

It is a development of contingency plans to react to a man to whom we have surrendered the initiative. We need to do it quickly. And we have got the -- we have got the intellectual power and in J5, Joint Staff, to get after this and into the NATO staff. But we need to move.

CABRERA: Major General Eaton, thank you for your insights, your expertise.

EATON: Thank you.

CABRERA: I appreciate you.

Up next: She and her husband survived 45 days of hell in Mariupol, but found a way to escape just days ago. And she's going to join us live to tell her story.

And are super rich Russians starting to turn on Putin? A Russian billionaire speaks out, calling the war on Ukraine insane.

Plus, the father of a Russian soldier ramps up his criticism of the Kremlin. Russian officials claim his son is missing after that warship sank, but the dad isn't not buying it.

[13:15:00]

In a new Facebook posts, he says -- quote -- "It was reported that the entire crew had been evacuated. It's a lie, a blatant and cynical lie," adding: "A man whose son was taken away in such a vile way is not afraid of anything."

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: How can anyone survive the Russian onslaught in Mariupol?

We have heard it described as hell on earth. I'm going to introduce you now to a woman who survived 45 days of hell there. Thankfully, she and her husband managed to escape.

Tatyana Burak is a an English teacher. And she fled the besieged city with her husband to find safety and medical health in Lviv.

[13:20:04]

Tatyana, thank you so much for speaking with us.

First of all, I know both you and your husband were injured. How are you both doing?

TATYANA BURAK, ESCAPED FROM MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: Well, we are doing much better than we did in occupied Mariupol. We are in the hospital in Lviv.

And we are getting all kind of medical assistance. So I am sure that we will be better soon.

CABRERA: I'm happy to hear you are on your road to recovery.

The reports coming out of Mariupol, the atrocities, it's all so horrific and heart-wrenching for all of us. But you endured the attacks there. This city is your home.

What goes through your mind as you think about what's happening right now in Mariupol?

BURAK: cannot think clearly about what's happening right now, because we know that, from official sources, that 95 percent of living quarters of people are destroyed. And so it's kind of -- we have seen that. We have heard that. We have seen the bodies. We have heard -- seen the skeletons of the buildings.

But we still cannot believe that our city doesn't exist anymore.

CABRERA: Do you know for sure your home is gone or any update there?

BURAK: Yes. Yes, we have the picture. It was sent to us by the Internet, which was taken right after the -- our building was bombed. So we know that our home was destroyed. We're homeless now.

CABRERA: I'm really sorry. I'm so sorry.

You survived 45 days of this invasion in what must have been just brutal, horrific conditions. What was that like?

BURAK: You know what? It was like living in a nightmare. It was a horrible dream which thousands of people were dreaming at the same time, and it had no end.

So, we spent a lot of time in the hospital because we were wounded right at the beginning of this Russian onslaught. And we were taken by our military doctors to the hospital. And so we felt every single bomb, every single shell which was going to our city.

There was a line on the floor in the corridor in the unit, the medical unit in the hospital, which was right at the entrance to the city from Berdyansk, from that direction. So, this district was shelled so horribly right during the first couple of weeks.

And then, when the shelling moved a little bit further and the terrorists came into the hospital, we actually looked into their faces and we understood that there is nothing to be expected, that our city was doomed, because these people came, as they said, to liberate us. They didn't know what they were going to liberate us from, but they said that we were suffering and they came to liberate us.

They liberated us from our homes, from our jobs, from the possessions of all our lives, from our family history. They liberated many people, thousands of people, from their lives. And they just -- I don't know. They seem to be just crazy and insane.

CABRERA: Did you talk to any of them?

BURAK: I can't -- yes, because they came.

And they said: "Are you glad we came?"

And we -- when such a question comes from a person with a gun, it's kind of scary to answer such a question. So, most of people just didn't answer. And they were really surprised that we were not showing the signs of ultimate joy that they came.

And when we tried to tell them that our homes were destroyed by your shells, by your tanks, by your bombs, they just look at us and said: "OK. That's OK. We will restore everything in two months. And your city will be much -- even much better."

[13:25:01]

So, they just didn't understand what they were doing, or they were deliberately doing it, just because they wanted to kill everybody.

CABRERA: When you had interactions with them personally, did they mistreat you or others? BURAK: They actually -- I did try to avoid them while we were in the

hospital.

And when we managed to get out and look around, we also tried to avoid them, because these people had -- were -- they were not adequately behaving...

CABRERA: Yes.

BURAK: ... because they seemed to be -- some of them seemed to be on drugs, because they were very moody, and their mood changed very quickly.

So, even just the wrong glance from your sight would start their aggression. So it's kind of -- but I saw how they mistreated other people just because they said something.

There was such an episode while we were in the basement of the hospital where we were taken after the bomb came right into the hospital. All the patients were taken to the basement. And these people came. And there was one guy who had a wife and a small child.

And he said something to them. And their commander, he just took him and said: "You cannot say anything to me. You will be going to war with me"

And he took him out. So, it was terrible.

CABRERA: So, let -- can I ask you, can I ask you, Tatyana? We have heard of these reports of Russian fighters taking Ukrainians, including children, into Russia.

Do you know of anybody who was taken into Russia?

BURAK: Yes, I know about many people who were taken into Russia.

The -- some of them were first taken to Donetsk and then moved to Russia.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Were these friends or neighbors of yours?

BURAK: Yes, these are my friends and members of my church.

They were forced to go to Donetsk first. And now they are in Russia. And so they don't want to talk about it yet because it might be dangerous. And I know that they are thinking about getting out, but they don't know yet how to do it.

CABRERA: We keep on hearing of how difficult it is for anybody to get out of Mariupol right now. Have you been in touch with people who are still there, and what are they telling you about how they're managing to stay alive?

BURAK: You know what? It's been impossible to be in touch with people, because there is no connection.

The Russians use specific equipment to put down all kinds of mobile connections, so we haven't had cell phone connection in Mariupol since the 2nd or the 3rd of March.

And, right now, they -- if you want to call somebody from Mariupol, you need to get the SIM card by their provider, which is called (INAUDIBLE)

CABRERA: OK.

BURAK: And a lot of people don't have that.

So, it's practically impossible to get in touch with people who are still in Mariupol.

CABRERA: Do you think there is...

BURAK: And I know that...

CABRERA: Go ahead.

BURAK: I know that they don't let anybody get out of Mariupol and come in.

CABRERA: Do people have access to water and food who are still there?

BURAK: Actually, people try to find any kind of source of water.

There are some springs on their territory of the city, some wells, and people try to find those. But it's still very dangerous to get to these places because of the war fight -- fighting, which is still going on in different districts of the city.

And the occupants also bring some water, but people have to stand in long lines for hours to get this water, So, well, it was -- they have snow. They melt the snow to have some technical water, just to have something.

CABRERA: Yes.

BURAK: And -- but what about food? It's even more horrible.