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Biden Administration Waits to Potentially Appeal Mask Mandate Ruling; Interview With Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta; Putin's Threats. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 20, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:28]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

This afternoon, a provocative move by Russia. It test-launched an intercontinental ballistic missile. Two U.S. officials tell CNN the United States knew the missile test was going to happen and was alerted before it took place on a peninsula in Russia's far east.

But this launch only heightens concerns about what Russia will do next in its bombardment against Ukraine. All eyes need to be on this steel factory in Mariupol, where civilians are trapped and trying to escape.

BLACKWELL: Local police say as many as 1,000 people, including many children, have been living there, hoping for some protection from Russia's shelling. Now, Vladimir Putin's forces have surrounded the place. And the new deadline has passed for the people inside to get out before Azovstal, the name of that steel factory, is destroyed.

The situation is so desperate that one Ukrainian brigade commander is asking for a third country to come in and to evacuate the civilians and his team who are defending the plant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. SERHII VOLYNA, COMMANDER, UKRAINIAN 36TH SEPARATE MARINE BRIGADE (through translator): This is our statement to the world. It may be our last statement. We might have only a few days or even hours left.

The enemy's units are 10 times larger than ours. They have supremacy in the air, artillery, and units that are dislocated on the ground, equipment and tanks. We appeal to the world leaders to help us.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: OK, but let's begin with Russia's missile test.

State media reports that Putin says this launch will -- quote -- "give thought" to those who are trying to threaten Russia.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon.

Oren, what are you learning?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Russian President Vladimir Putin used some threatening rhetoric around the test of this new ICBM missile, this new intercontinental -- intercontinental ballistic missile known as the Sarmat.

As you just pointed out, he said this would give thought or force those threatening NATO to -- threatening Russia to give some extra thought before they continue to do so. But two U.S. officials, as well as Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby, said there was notification under New START treaties that the Russia -- Russia provided to the U.S. before conducting this launch.

And the launch itself was conducted in Russia's far east on the Kamchatka Peninsula, which is also, the Russian Ministry of Defense says, where this missile landed. So the U.S. was able to track the missile launch through its entire launch phase, as well as where it landed. And it wasn't concerned about it.

But, later, a senior defense official said the type of rhetoric around the launch simply isn't helpful and continues to be part of that threatening rhetoric that we're seeing out of the Kremlin. And especially given the current situation, with Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine, as well as, of course, the desperate situation in Mariupol, the planned and imminent invasion that the U.S. is watching for in the southeast of Ukraine, this rhetoric, this action is certainly not helpful.

But it is a continued sort of trajectory of where the Russians are moving with this. And that's why the U.S. continues to be concerned, not only by this launch, but by Russia's ongoing invasion, even if this launch in particular isn't something that the U.S. viewed as a threat or viewed as something that could threaten the U.S. or its territory.

Also worth noting that the U.S., with its own ongoing ICBM launches, took a very different route earlier this month, when it canceled an ICBM test that had already been postponed. That was simply as a way for Russia to know that the U.S. isn't going to take this as an escalatory direct -- in an escalatory direction, as the U.S. watches what Russia itself is doing.

CAMEROTA: Really important context.

Oren Liebermann, thank you.

Now let's get to the latest on that fight for Mariupol.

CNN's Matt Rivers joins us now from Lviv. That's in Western Ukraine.

So, Matt, we just heard from a Ukrainian marine commander who says that Mariupol is still under constant bombardment. Do we know if that humanitarian corridor is open for the women and children and elderly to get out of that steel factory?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, that was the big question all day today. It was supposed to open up at about 2:00 p.m. local time.

And the tricky thing when you're reporting on Mariupol is that it's so hard for us to get independent, verifiable information. We don't have a CNN team on the ground because we simply cannot get in. And the infrastructure there, the communications infrastructure, is just so badly damaged after weeks of fighting that it's hard to get in contact with people, simply put.

However, here's what we know. There were buses that were lined up. We have seen some video. And according to a regional official from Ukraine, some buses were brought in. And it appears that some unknown number of people were able to get out. That said, we're just looking at some information now here in Lviv from the Ukrainian deputy prime minister, who said that the planned evacuation did not go as planned.

[14:05:00]

And exactly what this means, exactly how many people got out, we simply don't have those answers as of yet. It certainly, though, we can say, is not the kind of huge operation that some officials were hoping for. Thousands of people leaving, that does not appear to be the case.

And keep in mind, if we're talking about the overall scale here, some 100,000 citizens in and around Mariupol need to be evacuated. Meanwhile, the situation at that Azovstal steel plant very, very dire at this point.

I want to play you what Ukraine says is captured audio from an unencrypted communication between a Russian ground commander and a colleague.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Will there be some kind of explosion?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They said to level everything to the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Oh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They are being bombed and bombed. They are knocking them out.

(END AUDIO CLIP) RIVERS: Now, CNN can't independently verify the veracity of that recording, but, if it's to be believed, that's a Russian commander giving some insight into the viewpoint of Russia here.

That constant bombardment that that Ukrainian marine commander is talking about, that's what that Russian commander is talking about. That is the situation the ground in Mariupol.

BLACKWELL: All right, Matt Rivers from Lviv, thank you.

And ahead next hour, we will speak with a member of the Mariupol City Council for the latest on what is happening there.

We got some breaking news now. The U.S. has unveiled its latest round of sanctions going after Russia over this war in Ukraine.

CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood is with us now.

So, Kylie, tell us about them.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Treasury Department rolling out these new sanctions on Russia, clearly tightening the screws here when it comes to continuing to impose a cost on Russia for their invasion of Ukraine.

A few pieces to the new sanctions that were rolled out today by the Treasury Department. One commercial Russian bank was sanctioned, also a whole entire network of 40 individuals and entities who the Treasury Department says has been working with a Russian oligarch named Konstantin Malofeyev.

And what that network has been doing is helping Russian entities to evade sanctions. So, clearly, the Treasury Department, the Biden administration wanting to go after folks who have been enabling Russian individuals and entities from getting out of paying any costs because of the sanctions that have been invaded -- imposed -- excuse me.

And then the other piece of this is that the State Department is going to be rolling out visa restrictions on 635 Russian individuals, and those are folks who have been involved in quashing dissent that -- both at home in Russia and abroad. They have also been involved in Russia's war in Ukraine and the war crimes that have been going on there.

They aren't naming those individuals. But that is a large number of individuals that are going to face these new visa restrictions, as I said, tightening the screws, significant new sanctions coming out following this continued pressure the Biden administration has -- putting on Russia because of their war in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Kylie Atwood for us, thank you very much.

Let's bring in now former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.

Mr. Secretary, welcome back. Let's start here with the claimed successful launch of this

intercontinental ballistic missile. President Putin says that it should -- quote -- "give thought" to those who are trying to threaten Russia.

U.S. assessment, it's not operational in their arsenal. What's your reaction? And put it into context.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, it's pretty typical of Putin to basically do something like this and then issue a threat with it.

But I think, as pointed out, we were alerted to the fact that it was going to take place. We have the capability to bring that kind of missile down. So I don't think we have to be worried about the particular missile itself.

I just think that it's very important for United States and our allies to continue to do what is necessary now, which is to provide the weapons the Ukrainians need in order to push the Russians out of the Donbass.

CAMEROTA: Secretary Panetta, we're trying to stay hyperfocused on what's happening in Mariupol, because, unlike Bucha, where we saw the carnage after the Russians left...

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... this is happening in real time before our eyes.

There are women and children and elderly and civilians, hundreds of them, trapped in this steel factory, begging for help, begging for airlifts, begging for evacuation routes, begging for the world to not let them be slaughtered.

And it was suggested earlier that maybe NATO could step in and help establish this humanitarian corridor. Can NATO or the U.S. do something at this point?

[14:10:02]

PANETTA: Well, I think it is really important to make clear that we do have to establish a humanitarian corridor in order to be able to protect these very innocent men, women and children that are located there.

It's a terrible situation. It could be a disaster from a humanitarian point of view. So I think we really have a responsibility here to try to really push the Russians to try to provide a humanitarian corridor, so that the innocents can find a way to escape what is clearly going to be a tragic consequence here.

BLACKWELL: It's an awful dilemma, because there's one Ukrainian official who posted on their social media today that there is this humanitarian corridor that has been agreed upon between Russia and Ukraine. But we hear from other officials that Mariupol is under constant

bombardment, that where they're supposed to be going, Zaporizhzhia, is in the direction of Russian forces' advance, that they're going in that direction.

So should the people trust this agreement from the Russians and try to get to Zaporizhzhia, with all that reporting about what could be on that path ahead of them?

PANETTA: Well, I don't know. I think we have learned by now never to trust the Russians in terms of what they promise they're going to do.

I really do think that, if there is a humanitarian corridor established, that there has to be protections provided in order to make sure that people are able to use it.

Look, Mariupol right now is a huge symbol for the Russians. They want to ultimately capture it in order to show that they can at least achieve some control over a city in the Ukraine. I think, in the end, even though it may fall, it will be an inspiration to the Ukrainians to continue the fight against the Russians to make clear that they are not being diverted from the war that they're involved in, and they're going to continue to fight the Russians.

That, frankly, is what all of us, the United States and our allies, all of us ought to be committed to, is helping the Ukraines make clear that Russia is not going to succeed in the Donbass.

CAMEROTA: And one more question about this, Secretary Panetta. If NATO were to jump in now and help, can NATO be on the ground? I just don't even understand the logistics of how to help get people out of that steel factory and out of this besieged city that is surrounded.

PANETTA: I think the most important thing that NATO can provide are the ways -- the arms to basically ensure that that corridor is protected and that the Russians do not pierce that corridor. That means providing the weapons that the Ukrainians need in order to make sure that those civilians are protected.

I think there's a way to do this. It just means that we're going to have to provide that assistance in a very expeditious manner now, because this is getting down to a very critical moment. We just have a few hours here, I think, to be able to try to provide some relief.

BLACKWELL: Mr. Secretary, by my count, you have mentioned the commitment to getting the Ukrainians the weapons they need three times in our conversation now.

President Zelenskyy said that his military forces do not have enough -- quote -- "serious and heavy weapons" to defend Mariupol from the Russians. He said yesterday in a speech that, if he had the weapons, this war would be over by now.

Is this a concern of only weaponry, that if only they had the weapons? Or do they need more people? Do they need more intelligence? Or is it just the hardware? PANETTA: Well, look, this is a war, and you need help on all fronts,

very frankly, when you're fighting a war.

You need good intelligence, you need good fighters, and you need good weapons. And, right now, I think the most important thing is to be able to give the Ukrainians these upgraded weapons, howitzers, anti- aircraft systems, anti-ship missiles, armored personnel carriers, tanks, the kind of support that would give them the ability to strike back at the Russians, particularly on their artillery and missile sites.

That, I would think, should be a primary target now, because that is what the Russians are using basically to render a tremendous amount of destruction in the Ukraine.

We can do that. We have got to train the Ukraines. And we can get that equipment to them using our allies who are nearby and have a lot of this equipment and can provide it in a more expeditious way than the United States having to fly a lot of this stuff over long distances.

[14:15:12]

So it is possible. It's just going to take a real intense effort right now to get it done.

CAMEROTA: Secretary Leon Panetta, always appreciate talking to you. Thank you.

PANETTA: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Back in the U.S., the Justice Department is now deferring to the CDC on whether to bring back the travel mask mandate. We will tell you the next steps.

CAMEROTA: Plus, another Russian billionaire is calling out Russia and says more should be done to stop the war in Ukraine. We will talk about if this is the beginning of a groundswell of some kind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:09]

CAMEROTA: The Biden administration says it will wait for the CDC's guidance on whether to appeal the ruling that struck down the mask mandates on airplanes and public transportation.

BLACKWELL: Administration officials were reportedly caught off-guard by that ruling.

CNN's Evan Perez is in Washington with the latest.

So, Evan, explain the administration's concerns here.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big concern, Victor and Alisyn, is that, as a result of this ruling by a judge in Florida, the CDC's authority in future pandemics is going to be undermined, that, if there is another pandemic, if, for example, another variant emerges that causes a severe rise in cases in the United States, that the authority of the CDC to bring back a mask ordinance -- I'm sorry -- a mask requirement for transportation or other requirements will be undermined by this ruling.

And the issue is that the Justice Department lawyers who are -- have been defending this case, they're concerned that, if you appeal this ruling, and you lose in the appeals court or in the Supreme Court, then this bakes in this order from this judge. Right now, it's just one judge in Florida who has made that ruling.

And so what you're seeing a little bit behind the scenes is a bit of discord between the CDC, which wants to file this appeal, and the lawyers who are telling them, like, look, you might lose, and this will make things worse. And so that's reason why you saw that very contorted statement from the Justice Department last night, saying that they're going to wait for the Justice -- for the CDC to decide, after it's done its assessment, whether this mask requirement is even needed.

And, again, that was supposed to be concluded by May 3, according to the CDC. We're waiting to see whether now the CDC is going to speed up that assessment and make its decision much, much more quickly -- Victor and Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: All right, a lot still to sort out here.

Evan Perez, thank you.

Well, the CDC's mask mandate is no longer in effect, but the FAA says that its zero tolerance policy for unruly passengers will remain in place. And, still, one major airline says that it will allow banned passengers back on board.

CAMEROTA: CNN's Pete Muntean tries to make sense of all of this for us.

Why are they allowing unruly passengers back on board?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's so tricky here, Alisyn, and we're trying to get to the bottom of that.

First to the FAA news, because the FAA just announced that, even though the mask mandate is no longer in effect on planes, on trains, buses, boats, also in terminals, that the zero tolerance policy for unruly behavior will still stick around.

This went into effect in January 2021, not long after the attack on the Capitol, by then FAA Administrator Steve Dickson. Now FAA acting Administrator Billy Nolen says this has to stick around because it's just a zero tolerance policy that must be in place.

Masks have been a huge driver of unruly passenger incidents since the start of the pandemic. The latest numbers from the FAA, 1,233 incidents reported by flight crews to the FAA just this year alone, 797 of those mask-related. So we're talking about two-thirds of all issues on board planes have been because of masks. We will see if the FAA continues reporting out those numbers about which issues are mask-related and not. Remember that airlines are not going to continue to enforce this anymore. No airline has said that it will be on the front lines in saying that it will be the one that will require masks.

All major airlines say they are following through with the latest from the White House and the TSA and this new lawsuit, this court decision that says that masks are no longer required on all forms of public transportation.

Which is interesting here, though, is that United Airlines banned about 1,000 passengers since the start of the pandemic for not following mask rules, either the airline's own mask rule or the federal rule. And now it's saying it will allow some of those passengers to be able to fly again.

United Airlines is reviewing those instances on a case-by-case basis. We're trying to get to the bottom of that, what it really means and what will ultimately precipitate somebody being allowed back onto the airline. So we will see as that develops, Victor and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Pete, thank you. Bring us any developments as soon as you get them.

Meanwhile, sources say the U.S. is set to announce another $800 million in military aid to Ukraine. We will tell you what and when.

BLACKWELL: Plus, Wimbledon bars Russian and Belarusian players from this year's tournament. The Kremlin slams the decision as unacceptable.

We have more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:31]

BLACKWELL: Right now, the U.S. is working to finalize another $800 million weapons package for Ukraine. A senior official tells CNN that the security assistance will be focused on artillery and ammunition and that NATO allies have been asked to contribute as well.

CAMEROTA: CNN White House correspondent M.J. Lee joins us now.

So, M.J., what is the plan to get the equipment as fast as possible to Ukraine?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, what we know is that the preparations are under way right now for an additional weapons package that could amount to, as you said, around $800 million.

The details are not finalized, but that approval could come in the coming days.