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Mariupol on Brink of Falling to Russia; Biden Announces New Ukraine Assistance; Gen. David Petraeus is Interviewed about the War in Ukraine; DOJ to Appeal Mask Ruling; Explosives Left Behind in Ukraine. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:20]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Vladimir Putin claims victory in Mariupol. Russian forces blocking all entry points into the city, while hundreds of Ukrainians remain barricaded inside a steel factory. Putin now claiming to offer, quote, dignified treatment to those who surrender. This as Ukrainian President Zelenskyy calls the siege a terrorist operation.

Good morning to everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

Overnight, Russian troops making significant advances throughout Ukraine. The besieged port city of Mariupol bombarded again as officials work to evacuate some 120,000 civilians and soldiers. Today, at least four buses were able to leave that city.

And in the east, Russian forces making incremental gains in the Donbas region. In Luhansk, the village of Kreminna is now under Russian control.

Plus, massive shelling in Kharkiv. The mayor there saying the situation is tense but has no plans to evacuate.

Later this hour, President Biden is set to brief reporters on further U.S. security assistance to Ukraine. We'll have more details on that in just a moment.

But let's begin this morning with CNN correspondent Matt Rivers. He is reporting from Lviv, in western Ukraine.

Matt, Mariupol is now on the brink of falling into Russian hands as Putin calls off storming the Azovstal steel plant, instead ordering a blockade so that, and these are his words, not even a fly could get through. What more are we learning about that standoff?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, this is essentially Vladimir Putin declaring victory in Mariupol, even though if victory would be capturing the entire city, that hasn't happened yet. I mean Putin himself has said that. Even if the Russians functionally control the entire city, which it seems like they very much do, as long as there are Ukrainian fighters, and there are, inside that Azovstal steel plant complex and a small surrounding area, then technically the entire city has not yet been captured.

You know, the Russian defense minister saying that they might be able to capture that steel plant in the next three to four days. But, frankly, this is what we've been hearing from Russia for a long time now. This idea that Russia is on the brink of capturing Mariupol has been talked about for a long time now.

And what is clear, I think, Bianna, is that taking this steel plant is not going to be easy. I mean Putin himself even said that essentially it's not worth sending Russian soldiers in to fight and die just to capture that steel plant. So you could see the Russians essentially just kind of wait the -- wait them out, wait out the defenders inside that steel plant.

Not only waiting out the defenders there, but also, remember that there are hundreds of civilians that are also inside that Ukrainian held territory, that small piece of Mariupol that the Russians still have not taken. So, the dire situation that is already going on inside that steel plant might just get even worse as -- if Russia moves into more of a siege-like operation instead of going in there and trying to attacking it, rather just waits those people out. There is only a limited number of supplies that they have inside that steel plant complex.

Meanwhile, outside of that, in Russian held territory, the Ukrainian government says there is still 120,000 civilians, more or less, in and around Mariupol that still should and need to be evacuated. And there was this small glimmer of hope yesterday that we could see several thousand people get evacuated from that city after, for the first time in days if not weeks, Russia and Ukraine agree to an effective humanitarian corridor, but it didn't go as planned. Only four buses, four buses managed to make it out of that city with Ukrainians once again accusing Russia of violating a cease-fire agreement that would have allowed for the safe passage of citizens out of Mariupol. So, this horrific situation, Bianna, just continues.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, this is why it was floated that perhaps a NATO, a third party member, would help facilitate the evacuation of some of those residents. Thus far we don't see that playing out.

Matt Rivers, thank you.

Well, CNN has learned that when President Biden speaks from the White House just minutes from now, he will announce additional security assistance to Ukraine.

Let's get to CNN's Arlette Saenz at the White House.

Arlette, CNN had previously reported that the president is preparing an additional $800 million package just a week after authorizing a similarly sized measure. What more can you tell us and, also, what is he planning to say about refugees coming into the U.S. as well?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, President Biden has previously said that the U.S. is working around the clock to get weapons and assistance into Ukraine, sending that stuff over daily. And in just less than an hour, the president is expected to outline the next package of security assistance, which is expected to total, sources tell us, around $800 million. That is similar to what the president announced just last week.

Now, while we do not have the full scope of the details of what's included in this, it will include heavy artillery and ammunition.

[09:05:01]

You have seen the Biden administration really change their strategy in the types of weaponry they're sending to Ukraine as this new battlefield, this new phase of the war is playing out in the eastern part of the country.

Now, this new package that is going to be announced in just a short while will bring the total approximate aid since the war began to $3.4 billion.

Now, the U.S. has been coordinating with allies. Just earlier this week President Biden holding a call with the leaders of G-7 countries and some European countries as well to talk about military assistance, but also talk about further ways to punish Russia through sanctions.

Just yesterday the Treasury Department announced a host of new sanctions aimed at one of Russia's key commercial banks, as well as individuals tied to a Russian oligarch. And they're also targeting cryptocurrency mining companies, which is an interesting move as well.

But this all comes as the U.S. is continuing to try to find ways to hold Russia accountable. One area that the U.S. has not fully been able to act on is a total ban of Russian energy. That will require more coordination with allies who are much more dependent on Russian energy. And then additionally I'm told that as soon as today the Biden administration could be announcing the new humanitarian parole program that would allow Ukrainian refugees to come and seek entry into the U.S. through humanitarian grounds. That could come as soon as today as the U.S. is trying to meet that goal of President Biden's pledge to welcome as many as 100,000 Ukrainians to the U.S.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, 100,000. Compare that to what Europe is taking in and we're talking millions in Poland alone.

Arlette Saenz, thank you.

Well, a purported new intercepted communication appears to reveal Russian soldiers feeling abandoned by their leaders. The security service of Ukraine released the recording. Now, CNN cannot vouch for its authenticity, but Ukraine has previously released audio of Russian soldiers and Russian troops using unsecured lines of communication, according to military observers.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSIAN SOLDIER 1 (through translator): We sat there for three days without f-ing anything. Our commanders, they received provisions, cigarettes, food, and our command have all f-ed off, they abandoned everyone and f-ed off. We don't even know where they are.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER 2 (through translator): F-ing jackals! F-ing shoot them and that's it.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER 1 (through translator): Just imagine, they didn't provide a way to retreat, didn't say anything, didn't even bring foodstuff, f them.

RUSSIAN SOLDIER 2 (through translator): (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

RUSSIAN SOLDIER 1 (Through translator): F-ing shoot him! F wit. The first one!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Well, joining me now to discuss is retired Army general and former U.S. CENTCOM commander, David Petraeus.

General Petraeus, great to have you on set, finally.

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. CENTCOM: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: First, let me ask you, as a general, what do you make of those intercepted communications between Russian soldiers, just giving you a sense of the morale?

PETRAEUS: Well, it's clearly not very good.

Commanders can't fool their soldiers. The soldiers know that they're sharing risk and hardship or not. And it's quite apparent here that that's not the case.

That's not surprising, candidly. I mean this is characteristic all the way at the top, Vladimir Putin. We haven't heard of him visiting a hospital of wounded soldiers. We haven't seen him comforting grieving widows. None of that. He doesn't want to acknowledge these extraordinary losses that are vastly higher already, just eight weeks into this war, than they sustained in nine years in Afghanistan.

So, again, these commanders don't seem all that concerned about their soldiers. Many of them are draftees, they're conscripts whose tours are supposed to end this month. Their morale, I'm sure, will not be good when they're told that they're extended and so forth.

So, can't fool them. And they have not been fooled.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

PETRAEUS: And there you hear their honest opinions.

GOLODRYGA: We don't know how many died on that battleship, the Moskva, last week, right? It would --

PETRAEUS: No, not at all. No, they're -- they're controlling all of that. And, of course, it was much more than they have announced that they've lost so far.

GOLODRYGA: Right. Which is why it was almost laughable, you and I were talking about this, to hear Vladimir Putin today publicly there with his defense secretary ay that for the sake of lives, the troops' lives and their security, that they're not going to storm that Azovstal steel plant. That they will just blockade it now so that, using his words, not even a fly can get in or out.

What does that tell you about the situation there as it pertains to what he calls a victory in the city itself?

PETRAEUS: Well, I think that he and his commanders are finally realizing how soldier consuming combat in urban cities is, in urban centers. This is not just, of course, a single building plant. This is a four plus mile -- square mile industrial plant. It's a series of buildings. There are lots of underground tunnels and passages and so forth. It's ideal to become, if you will, the Ukrainian alamo. And that's what it has become.

And I think they've finally realized how costly it would be to take just this one complex. And so they're just going to starve them out. And the question is, how long can they stay there without having to come out at some point and surrender.

[09:10:01]

But it appears that they want to go down fighting, and they may well do that.

GOLODRYGA: And it appears that Vladimir Putin wants to announce publicly of a major win, leading up to not only the eastern orthodox Easter this Sunday, but obviously the May 9th Victory Day Parade in Russia.

PETRAEUS: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: What does a win look like in terms of what we've seen leveled upon Mariupol itself? A city that used to have 400,000 residents has just been leveled. If that is a victory in Vladimir Putin's eyes, what does that say about the rest of this war in the weeks and months ahead?

PETRAEUS: Well, again, this is history repeated. What did they do to Grozny and Chechnya when they couldn't take Grozny. They were defeated there in their first foray. So they just essentially destroyed it.

Aleppo. In fact, the same commander, who is now in charge of all Ukraine -- all Russian forces, leveled Aleppo. That's why he's called the butcher of Syria. And that's essentially what they've done to Mariupol.

So, you know, if you destroy the city to save it, again, what kind of victory is that?

Beyond that, they'd love to have, I think, some real success in the east. And, of course, they're really not achieving all that much. They're getting grinding, grudging success there. The Ukrainian soldiers giving up a bit of ground in some areas. But by and large this massive armor defensive that many anticipated just has not materialized. And I think it's once again a sign of the ineptitude, frankly, you know, they've rushed forces that were withdrawn to Belarus, pushed people and equipment into them, plussed them back up and then brought them all the way around and shoved them in. And it just is not going according to their plan. They are achieving combined arms effects of armor as well as infantry, engineers, artillery, mortars, certainly not getting air/ground integration the way that we would want to see it, real close air support. They're just bombing out there.

And, again, I don't think that despite all of the forces that they've massed that they are going to achieve the kind of victory where they envelop the Ukrainian forces, surround them, and get them to surrender. I think this is going to be a very, very hard fought campaign. And I think if we can continue to equip the Ukrainian forces with the arms and munitions and so forth that they need, and I'm sure, again, 800 million more dollars is very, very substantial --

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

PETRAEUS: If we can get that in their hands and do it quickly enough, they may even start to counter attack, as they already are out of Kharkiv.

So, again, I don't think he's going to have something extraordinary to announce on May 9th.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, he's going to have an insurgency on his hands, right, in the weeks and months ahead.

PETRAEUS: He thought he --

GOLODRYGA: He thought he could take these cities --

PETRAEUS: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: But you can't take civilians that don't want you there.

PETRAEUS: No. And, again, they have to recognize -- I think the soldiers do as well, you can't fool them. They realize that they've created a country in which every citizen hates them and is actually willing to fight them.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

PETRAEUS: It's really a very, very difficult context to put it mildly.

GOLODRYGA: All part of Vladimir Putin's miscalculation.

PETRAEUS: Uh-huh.

GOLODRYGA: General Petraeus, great to see you. Thank you.

PETRAEUS: A pleasure. Good to be on set. GOLODRYGA: And ahead, the Justice Department says it will appeal the

judge's decision that led to masks being optional on planes, trains and buses. We'll break down what you should consider when you're traveling.

Plus, "The New York Times" is reporting this morning that the top House Republican was ready to ask former President Trump to resign in the days after the January 6th attack. Hear how Congressman Kevin McCarthy is responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:39]

GOLODRYGA: The Justice Department is appealing a ruling by a federal judge that struck down the travel mask mandate after the CDC said masks are still needed.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now.

So, Elizabeth, clearly a lot of confusion, a lot of back and forth on this. What happens next?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, so let's look at what already happened and then we'll talk about what happens next.

So, Bianna, on Monday, a federal appeals court judge said, look, I don't think the Biden administration mask mandate for planes and trains and buses is legal, striking it down. And then just yesterday the CDC asked the Department of Justice to appeal that.

So, while it's being appealed, the law is, you don't need to wear a mask on planes or trains or buses. We don't know how long this appeal will take. And then if the decision sort of goes one way or the other, the other side could appeal it again and it really could go all the way to the Supreme Court.

So, in the meantime, this really becomes a personal decision. And people should know that studies do show that if you wear a mask, even if no one else on the airplane is, if you wear a mask, it does go a long way to protecting yourself. And if you stop -- if we stop thinking about just ourselves for a moment, it also goes a long way to protecting others. Chances are there was some -- there is someone much more vulnerable on that airplane than you. And by wearing that mask, you could be helping to protect them against Covid-19.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

So here to break this down for us is Elie Honig, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York and CNN's senior legal analyst.

So, Elie, help us make sense of things and where they stand right now. Why did the CDC ask the Justice Department to step in now, given that the mandate was set to expire in just a few days anyway?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Bianna, so here's where things stand sort of moving forward. This is being appealed now by the Justice Department. A federal appeal like this takes months. This could take four, five, six months, even more.

Now, of course, the numbers on Covid will change over those times. They might get better. They might get worse. We don't know. And that could ultimately impact some parts of this opinion.

But one thing that's really important to know, DOJ has not asked the court for what we call a stay, meaning we want you to put a pause on this court while the appeal is ruling. They've not asked for that. So, as of this moment, and until the appeal is over, the mask mandate is off, and it will be up to each individual whether to wear a mask on airplanes and other transports.

[09:20:02]

GOLODRYGA: So is this more for just precedent so that in the hopes or of, God forbid we have another crisis here, another pandemic, that you don't have one judge unilaterally coming in and overstepping the CDC?

HONIG: Well, I think that's definitely part of DOJ's rationale here. They want to preserve the CDC's ability to issue this kind of ruling.

And, Bianna, there's real controversy out there over what's called a nationwide injunction. We have 94 different federal district courts in this country. And the concern is, well, can one judge just come along and strike down the policy for the whole country? And the politics here are kind of interesting because this happened quite a bit under the Trump administration, where one district court judge struck down a policy, and liberals and Democrats applauded and said, this is great, and conservatives hated it. And now the tables are exactly turned.

So, we do need some clarity as to how much discretion, how much authority does any one district judge in any of those 94 courts have.

GOLODRYGA: So, what's the likelihood that this could go up to the Supreme Court?

HONIG: Well, it will be up to the Supreme Court. I think DOJ has a real uphill battle here, first of all. The Court of Appeals here is the 11th Circuit. That tends to be a conservative-leaning court. And the district court judge here struck down the mask mandate on three separate bases. One of them was substantive. The other two were procedural. So, DOJ is going to have to win on all three of those on the appeal to win.

Whatever happens in the 11th Circuit, it will then be up to the Supreme Court if they want to take the case or not. They've generally been hostile towards broad Covid restrictions. So, I think if it goes up to the Supreme Court, they're not likely to rule in favor of the Biden administration.

GOLODRYGA: Nonetheless, once again, here we are two years later still having mask confusion here as to whether we should be masking up, whether there are mandates for it. But, listen, the option is always still there for people to wear their masks if they want to.

Elie Honig, thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still ahead, Russian landmines found planted in toys. Think about that. Even in dead bodies. Well, next, we'll speak with a Ukrainian national police explosives expert about the booby traps soldiers are finding everywhere, and how long it will take to get rid of them all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:26:47]

GOLODRYGA: Well, right now, experts are working to clear land mines left behind by Russian forces as they retreated from northern Ukraine.

Jim, this is something that we keep hearing from mayors across the country, scenes of landmines just planted throughout their cities.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Landmines and booby traps, right? I mean we're hearing accounts, not just of leaving behind those landmines, but planting explosives in dead bodies, right, so that when they're moved by Ukrainians, they explode. Children's toys as well.

We spoke to someone from one of the teams doing their best to clear this up as Russians troops have left. This is someone who leads the explosives service for the Ukrainian National Police, Colonel Volodymir Khomenko.

Listen to the stories he tells.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: You have a very difficult job here now. We've been told by several people that as Russians left, they left behind hidden explosives, sometimes in children's toys. And I wonder if you've seen the same thing.

VOLODYMIR KHOMENKO, HEAD OF EXPLOSIVES SERVICE, UKRAINIAN NATIONAL POLICE (through translator): I haven't seen them hidden in toys myself, but other household items have been mined.

SCIUTTO: What kind of household items and why do you believe Russian forces are doing that?

KHOMENKO: On some occasions, they tried to mine the places where they had been stationed. But on other occasions, it doesn't make any sense at all.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe that the intent of Russian forces is deliberately to kill civilians with these explosives? KHOMENKO: After the Russians left, before our forces entered these

areas, there were lots of civilians left in these territories. So, I think that there is great possibility that their target was specifically civilians.

SCIUTTO: Have you seen evidence in your work of war crimes by Russian forces?

KHOMENKO: Everywhere the Russians have stayed, we are finding the bodies of civilians who were killed deliberately with gunshot wounds to the back of their heads, in basements, and with their hands tied behind their backs. And the bodies of these people had been mined on many occasions.

SCIUTTO: Mining dead bodies, Lord.

Your work is very dangerous. I know at least one of your team has been injured. Are they scared of this danger? How do they keep going?

KHOMENKO: These people are professionals. And they are aware that no one, apart from them, is able to do this job. They are working for the sake of their families, for their children.

SCIUTTO: Do you have enough people to do this work? I know there are American volunteers. I've spoken to one of them in your team. Does Ukraine have enough people here to clear all of these dangerous weapons?

KHOMENKO: We never have enough specialists or experts. And they are not trained in one day. So any extra pair of hands is useful. The American experts that are helping us are very valuable.

[09:30:00]

SCIUTTO: I've been to countries, including in Asia, where many decades after war they're still clearing unexploded ordinance and mines.