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Tanya Kozyreva is Interviewed about Evacuees from Mariupol; McCarthy Said Trump Should Resign; Depp Returns to the Stand. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I've been to countries, including in Asia, where many decades after war they're still clearing unexploded ordinance and mines.

Do you fear that Ukraine will be dealing with this danger for many years to come?

VOLODYMIR KHOMENKO, HEAD OF EXPLOSIVES SERVICE, UKRAINIAN NATIONAL POLICE (through translator): No, I hope that we will be able to do it much sooner, especially if we have some additional forces and additional technical possibilities. I am sure we will be able to deal with this within five to ten years.

SCIUTTO: Well, Volodymir, thank you so much for taking the time and thank you for the work you're doing. I hope you and your team are safe.

KHOMENKO: Thank you also.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Yes, and one takeaway from listening to accounts like that is this, there's no military function to booby trapping kitchen items, right, as Russian forces retreat. They've already given up the territory. It's not military equipment. That's designed to terrorize. And I think we just have to keep saying that, repeating that, that a lot of the methods we're seeing employed by Russian forces, torture, rape, bombing of civilian areas, leaving bombs inside dead bodies, as he was saying there, that's just designed to kill and to terrorize. There's no function beyond that.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and that is why we hear so many accusations day in, day out about war crimes. Many Ukrainians actually calling this genocide. It was also interesting to hear him thank American experts there who

have been helping them throughout all of this, gives you a sense of the aid that the U.S. is providing and our allies are providing, not just through weaponry, right, but through some of our experts there and specialists on the ground as they are untangling all of this.

SCIUTTO: Right. We interviewed one of those volunteers last week. And oftentimes, really, frankly, near all the time, they're volunteers, including the Americans, many of them former military veterans who are fighting on the front lines now. Volunteers willing to put their lives down.

GOLODRYGA: So important to get all of this documented.

Jim, we'll be back to you later in the hour.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: And straight ahead, the battle for Donbas. We'll speak to a reporter on the front lines of the war. We'll talk about what's at stake if Russia takes over that region. That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:50]

GOLODRYGA: Just moments ago, President Zelenskyy said the situation in Mariupol is very grave as Russian forces are closing in. It's been nearly impossible for people to escape that city. But Ukrainian investigative journalist Tanya Kozyreva joins me now from Zaporizhzhia, which has been one of the evacuation points for people fleeing Mariupol.

Tanya, I know our connection there is not very strong, so I want you to just describe for us what you're seeing in terms of these people now being bused in to Zaporizhzhia from Mariupol.

TANYA KOZYREVA, UKRAINIAN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Yes, so we -- as we have heard from yesterday that only four buses make it to leave Mariupol yesterday, and here they are finally, they arrived to Zaporizhzhia. And you can see those people. Many of them were crying and happy to leave Mariupol.

And so here they are. They are happy to be on Ukrainian side. If you -- yes, if you will give me -- I would -- I would like to speak to those people first. I couldn't start speaking to them just because you just called me. But eventually many of them, as I told you, were crying and happy to be here. And, as you can see, everything that they got, it's just their bags that they are holding in their hands right now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, Tanya, and we want to get you over there to talk to them, and so I just have one more question for you. We see just a small spray of people there. I'm -- what looks like 30 or so people that have been on that bus. We know that they're, according to the mayor of Mariupol, some 100,000 that still remain there, holed up in this city.

Give us a sense of what these people have been experiencing and will they be able to get out in the days ahead?

KOZYREVA: So many of them, as you know, they didn't have any electricity from day two, I think. They hadn't had any gas. They hadn't had any water. Some of them, you know, were doing deadly trips to get more drinking waters -- water to provide to the family, to themselves. And, you know, they survived. They were not living in Mariupol. And many more people stayed. As you know, the evacuation was happening only on their own cars. So finally those people who had not -- who have -- who don't have any cars, they are here, and they are evacuated by, like, by buses right now.

GOLODRYGA: And from what you can see, is it mostly women and young children, elderly? Who do you see among those who have been evacuated?

KOZYREVA: It's mostly children and women and also elder people. So, it's mostly families and those who wanted to leave.

[09:40:02]

The people that we spoke to, some of them told us that many more Ukrainians are staying there, but they're not considering them Ukrainians. So those people who are willing to stay there, they're, you know, they're having the (INAUDIBLE). And it's also, you know, something that the people who are more -- tend to be like with Ukraine or who call (ph) themselves Ukrainians are going through. So it's not only the Russians who are insulting them, it's also the collaborators who are, you know, make their lives (INAUDIBLE) hell.

GOLODRYGA: And, Tanya, can you quickly show us -- there, I was going to ask you to turn the camera so we could see some of those evacuees. Obviously, there's some media and press there waiting for them. But just knowing that among those civilians are elderly, are children, are women, and families that were torn apart, and besieged in that city of Mariupol without electricity, without much water, food, the situation for them was extremely dire. And I know you're going to go talk to them now and get more details on their harrowing experience. Hopefully, this is just a sign of what's to come and we can get more civilians out of that city.

Tanya Kozyreva, thank you so much for your time and your reporting.

KOZYREVA: My pleasure.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Russia is starting to plant its flag across Ukraine, literally. Images published this week show the Soviet victory -- that's not even a Russian flag, that's a Soviet flag from World War II -- appearing in several Russian-occupied cities. Two European officials told CNN that Russian forces are feeling self-imposed pressure to achieve any semblance of a victory ahead of Russia's May 9th victory day celebration. A major holiday in the country usually marked with speeches by President Putin, a big display usually marked as well. Not sure what to make of that Soviet flag, though. Well, still ahead, a new report says top Republicans had planned to

push former President Trump to resign or have him removed from office in the wake of January 6th. So, what happened? We're live at the Capitol up next with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:46:44]

GOLODRYGA: This morning we're learning that the nation's top two Republicans had serious concerns about former President Trump's ability to lead in the wake of the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol. "The New York Times" is reporting that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy told other Republican leaders that he was going to advise President Trump to resign. "The Times" is also reporting that McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell looked into the 25th Amendment as an option for removing Trump from office.

CNN Washington correspondent Sunlen Serfaty joins us now for more on this developing story.

So, Sunlen, given all of this, why did they ultimately back down?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's so, Bianna.

This report says that they backed off because they feared the political retribution, the consequences from Trump, and Trump supporters that could come if they stood up to him. And this is just a fascinating excerpt by Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns looking at really how the Republican establishment wing of the party grappled in the hours and the days after the January 6th attack, how they grappled with and struggled withstanding up potentially to Trump contemplating potentially a total break with the then president. So just revealing in how they really struggled through this decision.

And some of the excerpts in their book talks about how McCarthy specifically, their reporting says he wanted to push Trump to resign. He said, quote, I've had it with this guy. He called his conduct on January 6th atrocious, wrong. And he even inquired about the mechanism for invoking the 25th Amendment. And he said that he told the Republicans, according to their reporting, that McCarthy told -- said that he would tell Trump, quote, I think that, in terms of the impeachment, this will pass, but it would be my recommendation for you to resign.

And the Senate leader, McConnell, he said, quote, if this isn't impeachment, I don't know what is, in terms of the fallout from January 6th. So, all of that certainly very notable.

Now, McConnell's office, responding to this report, they declined to comment on it. But a spokesman for McCarthy denied one specific part of the reporting, telling "The New York Times," quote, McCarthy never said he'd call Trump to say he should resign. So that, of course, Bianna, very notable because he's not doing a blanket denial of everything, he is just denying that one specific detail that these "New York Times" reporters reported that McCarthy was going to call on Trump himself to resign. So, certainly an important distinction there in the end.

GOLODRYGA: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you.

SERFATY: Thanks, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, a false alarm prompted the evacuation of the U.S. Capitol yesterday. The scare happened last night as a result of an Army Golden Knights (ph) flyover at the Washington Nationals baseball game. Local air traffic control, the FAA and NORAD were all aware of the flight, but the U.S. Capitol Police were not. They say the FAA failed to notify them and they thought the flight was a possible threat.

Now, while the FAA is reviewing what happened, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi slammed the agency, saying in a statement, quote, the unnecessary panic caused by that apparent negligence was particularly harmful for members, staff and institutional workers still grappling with the trauma of the attack on the workplace on January 6th.

[09:50:08]

Well, soon, Johnny Depp will be returning to the stand for cross- examination in his defamation trial against his ex-wife. What he says about her alleged attacks against him, including one that severed his finger. We'll have a live report up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Moments from now, actor Johnny Depp will be back on the stand to face cross-examination in his defamation trial against his ex-wife, actress Amber Heard.

Yesterday, he detailed allegations of Heard's verbal and physical abuse against him.

[09:55:03]

And the court even heard recordings of some of the couple's arguments.

Here now is CNN's Jean Casarez with more.

So, Jean, Depp gave some really gruesome details about some of his encounters with his ex-wife. What specifically did he say?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think one that really stood out was, he was in Australia and he was shooting "Pirates of the Caribbean 5" and he talked about what -- how intense those days were, three hours to get the make-up on, shoot all day, get it off. He and Amber had just been married, but he had to fly to Australia, so she joined him after a time period. And so she arrives and immediately it just starts getting into an argument. And he said that he had been sober for a while and he was very proud of that. But as this arguments start escalating, he went to the bar of the rented house they had for him and he had two shots of vodka. So the vodka bottle is there.

I'm going to let him take it from there on his testimony. Let's hear it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: She threw the large bottle and it made contact and shattered everywhere.

And then I looked down and realized that the tip of my finger had been severed. And I was looking directly at my bones.

I don't know what a nervous breakdown feels like, but that's probably the closest that I've ever been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So, the jury got to see the picture of the severed finger. And by the way, the top of it literally went off and the cook at the house found the severed finger. He's rushed to the hospital. They take the severed top of the finger off. I think you just saw it there. And then he was flown to Los Angeles to have it reattached.

But the prosecution -- I mean the defense in this is going to have to turn this all around because they said in their opening statements that he did it to himself, that she played no role, that it was a cell phone and then the vodka bottle broke and the finger was severed at that top portion.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, I remember that severed finger incident because it was written about in all the publications at the time.

We also know, Jean, that the jury got to hear some of the ex-couples' heated arguments. Talk about how heated they actually got.

CASAREZ: Well, you know, you hear Depp and he's talking in narratives. But then it gets to a point where he says that they decided that they would record some of their arguments. And this was for their counselling session because they had a psychologist, they had group sessions, they had individual sessions. Well, now, four clips became evidence in this trial.

Let's listen to one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER HEARD, ACTRESS: You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I hit you like this. But I did not punch you. I did not (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deck you. I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine. I did not hurt you. I did not punch you. I was hitting you.

DEPP: (INAUDIBLE).

HEARD: What am I supposed to do, do this?

DEPP: (INAUDIBLE).

HEARD: I'm not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about it, am I? You are.

DEPP: (INAUDIBLE).

HEARD: That's the difference between me and you. You're a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) baby.

DEPP: Because you start --

HEARD: You are such a baby. Grow the (EXPLETIVE DELETED), Johnny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So the psychologist, in her testimony, and this is a neutral person, she said that when this happened, that Depp, and he testified it too, that he would leave. He would go to a bathroom and lock himself in there. He'd go to a bedroom and lock himself in there. Or he'd leave the house.

And Amber also said during those counselling sessions, according to the testimony from the psychologist, that sometimes she would just keep hitting him because she didn't want him to leave.

GOLODRYGA: Well, we are looking at live pictures now of the courtroom where Depp is set to testify again in this trial. I know you'll continue to cover it for us.

Jean Casarez, thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, a newly released report determined that the crew on "The Rust" movie set, quote, willfully violated safety rules which led to the tragic shooting death of cinematographer Halayna Hutchins. Actor Alec Baldwin shot Hutchins in October while rehearsing a scene. He says he never pulled the trigger and the gun misfired. The report by New Mexico's Occupational Health and Safety Bureau, says the movie's management team apparently knew gun safety procedures were not being followed on set but failed to correct them. "Rust" movie production was fined nearly $137,000 and given the highest-level citation.

And good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

Any moment, President Biden will be speaking from the White House.

[10:00:00]

We expect him to announce an additional $800 million in security assistance to Ukraine.