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Florida vs. Disney; Russian Troops Feeling Abandoned?; President Biden Announces New Aid Package For Ukraine. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Quick programming note for us.

The unbelievable true story of the man who took on Vladimir Putin and lived to expose the truth, the Sundance Award-winning CNN film, "Navalny," airs Sunday night 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thank you for being with us. I'm Ana Cabrera.

We begin this hour with a shocking development out of Ukraine. Officials say these are new satellite images showing evidence of mass graves outside the besieged city of Mariupol. The discovery announced just hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin declared this city liberated.

Meanwhile, at the steel factory that has become the last stand of resistance in Mariupol, Putin is ordering his troops not to storm the plant, but to surround it instead. Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians are inside. And Putin is demanding a blockade so tight that -- quote -- "A fly can't get through."

For people in this decimated city, starvation and thirst may prove as deadly as guns and bullets. Despite this long line of buses yesterday and even longer lines of hopeful people, evacuees, only four buses with about 80 people on board were able to leave Mariupol yesterday. The mayor says Russia won't ensure a stable cease-fire.

An estimated 100,000 civilians remain trapped. The Russian offensive in the east is gaining ground. Its forces have made incremental advances in Donbass and captured a city in the Luhansk region. And one Ukrainian military official says Russia controls 80 percent of the Luhansk region now.

A short time ago, President Biden announced a new $800 million weapons package tailor-made to better equip Ukrainians for the more open landscape of this new fight. Let's begin our coverage in Western Ukraine.

CNN's Matt Rivers is in Lviv.

Matt, President Biden is casting doubt on Putin's claim that Russians have officially captured Mariupol. What are you hearing on the ground?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, if your definition of capturing a city is controlling every inch of that city and making sure that there's no Ukrainian resistance fighters left, then President Biden is 100 percent correct.

I have personally spoken over the last few days to people who are inside that steel plant holding out, fighting. Do they control a lot of area? No, but they do control that steel plant and some of the area around it, which means that the entirety of Mariupol has not been "liberated" -- quote, unquote -- as Vladimir Putin would like to say.

That said, the Russians do control the vast majority of Mariupol. There's no question about that. And yet, even though they control it and they say they want to respect civilians, they have they have not really been effective at evacuating the 120,000 or so Mariupol ordinary citizens that need to be evacuated, according to Ukraine's government.

You talked about it a little bit off the top there, Ana, with evacuation corridors both yesterday and today failing to produce any sort of evacuations at a sense of scale. We're talking about dozens of people, not the thousands that truly need to be evacuated.

Meanwhile, you also talked about those new images that we're just getting, horrific images, frankly, satellite images that appear to show the existence of mass graves in a town just outside of Mariupol. And if you look at those images, the trenches that are there can -- we don't know exactly how many people would be buried there.

But the trenches, just based on what we're seeing in that satellite imagery, could certainly hold a lot of bodies. And that would just be further proof of what we have seen in other parts of Ukraine, in places like Bucha, for example, where we know other mass graves have been found.

But the difference is, this is firmly inside of Russian-held territory. And if this is what we're seeing just on this one satellite image, imagine what would happen if and when Ukrainian forces, independent journalists could get into these areas and see what has happened in and around Mariupol, where some reports say some 20,000 people have been killed.

These satellite images perhaps just the tip of the iceberg, Ana, when you're talking about war crimes being committed in Southern Ukraine.

CABRERA: It is so horrific.

Matt Rivers, thank you for your reporting.

And, as we mentioned a moment ago, President Biden has announced another $800 million in additional military aid for Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But to modernize Teddy Roosevelt's famous advice, sometimes, we will speak softly and carry a large Javelin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House.

Kaitlan, what is in this latest security package?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It looks a lot like the $800 million package that President Biden announced last week.

And these two packages, Ana, stand out for a reason from the other ones that you have seen the U.S. send to Ukraine.

And that's because they have a lot heavier-duty equipment included in them, including this heavy-duty artillery, this heavy artillery that is going to be included, dozens of these howitzers, about 72 of them, according to the Pentagon, 144,000 rounds of ammunition to go along with that, and 40 -- and dozens of these tactical drones as well, all making their way to Ukraine, all in hopes of helping Ukraine fend off Russia.

[13:05:14]

And what the White House what President Biden was talking about today is the second phase of this invasion, what they believe, of course, is going to focus less on those major cities, like the capital of Kyiv, and more on that eastern region, where they believe it's going to be more of a different kind of terrain, where the president says maybe it will be more limited when it comes to geography, but, when it comes to brutality, he said he they do expect it to be just as bad, as he was giving his overview of where he thinks they are about two months into this invasion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We don't know how long this war will last. But as we approach the two-month mark, here's what we do know: Putin has failed to achieve his grand ambitions on the battlefield. After weeks of shelling Kyiv, Kyiv still stands.

President Zelenskyy and his democratically elected government still remain in power. And the Ukrainian armed forces, joined by many brave Ukrainian civilians, have thwarted Russia's conquest of their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, typically, when they announce these packages, they lay out and pretty in detailed amount of what exactly is going to be going included in them. The president today mentioned they are going to be sending more of those Javelin anti-tank missiles.

But he also said some of what they are going to be sending will remain secret. Of course, they didn't explain fully why. You can assume why, not telling the Russians exactly what the United States is sending, Ana. But the president said this is all in hopes of sending a message to Putin that he will not be able to dominate Ukraine, which, of course, was his goal going in.

CABRERA: And, Kaitlan, the administration also announced that it is going to expedite the arrival of Ukrainian refugees, right? What more can you tell us about that?

COLLINS: Yes, this is the plan that the president announced when he was in Warsaw, saying that they're going to accept up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees here in the United States.

They're basically -- basically creating a new process to try to expedite this, allowing Americans here and entities into the United States to sponsor some of these Ukrainians who are leaving Ukraine who need somewhere to go, hoping that that will be able to allow the United States to play a role in, of course, the humanitarian aspect of what has been -- become this refugee crisis as a result of this invasion.

CABRERA: Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you.

And the U.S. also unveiled a new round of sanctions targeting Russia.

CNN's Kylie Atwood joins us now from the State Department with this angle.

What are in these new sanctions, Kylie?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A new Russian commercial bank was sanctioned.

You also had 40 individuals and entities sanctioned that were tied to a Russian oligarch, all working in the realm of trying to work with Russian entities to evade the sanctions that are in place. You also had virtual mining -- excuse me -- virtual mining -- currency mining companies that were sanctioned, and then more than 600 Russian individuals facing new visa restrictions because they were involved in suppressing Russian dissent either at home or globally or involved some way in this Ukraine war.

So it is clear the Biden administration is tightening the screws, continuing on with their sanctions efforts here. They have been rolling out new sanctions about every week since this Ukraine war began. So that is significant.

One area where we're not seeing the Biden administration put too much focus is on incredibly focused Iranian -- excuse me -- Russian oil sanctions. And one reason that the Biden administration says they're not doing that is because they're working with Europeans to phase out their reliance on Russian energy. And they think that that is working. They're working with those countries to do it over time. And it's a very complex process. But you do talk to experts in the

sanctions world who say that they should be applying more of the Iranian sanctions mandate here, some sort of a version of sanctions that would require countries to phase out their reliance on Russian energy before a certain amount of time, and if they didn't do that, they'd face sanctions, because the problem here is that certain countries, like China and like India, are still continuing to import Russian energy.

So, that is a major question. The Biden administration says they're not taking that off the table. But that could be a place to look for future sanctions down the road -- Ana.

CABRERA: Kylie Atwood, thank you.

Russians blasting their own commanders in order to shoot at civilians and even prisoners of war. Ukraine releases new audio and claims it reveals chaos and dark orders among Russian troops. We will play it for you.

And the mask fight is not over, after all. On the CDC's advice, the Justice Department moves to appeal the recent ruling that scrapped the mask mandate for mass transit. So what happens now?

And why it just got even harder to buy a home.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:14:19]

CABRERA: New evidence suggests Vladimir Putin's troops are turning on each other.

The security service of Ukraine has released new purportedly intercepted communication between Russian soldiers. CNN cannot vouch for the authenticity of the recordings, but military observers say Ukraine has previously released audio of Russian troops using unsecured lines of communication. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER (through translator): We sat there for three days without (EXPLETIVE DELETED) anything. Our commanders, they received provisions, cigarettes, food, and our command have all (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off.

They abandoned everyone and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off. We don't even know where they are.

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER (through translator): (EXPLETIVE DELETED) jackals. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shoot them, and that's it.

[13:15:02] UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER (through translator): Just imagine. They didn't provide a way to retreat, didn't say anything, didn't even bring foodstuff.

(EXPLETIVE DELETED) them. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shoot him. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) quit.

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER (through translator): The first one.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining us now are CNN military analyst retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russia operations Steve Hall.

Gentlemen, always good to have you here.

Colonel, let me start with you.

Again, CNN can't vouch for the authenticity of this recording. But, if true, it seems to be right in line with what we have already heard about Russian morale being low. What do you make of this?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, it certainly does, Ana.

And when you look at these kinds of intercepts -- and I was in the SIGINT business, the signals intelligence business for quite some time -- they do appear, to me at least, to be genuine.

What you're looking at is really low morale, definitely not leadership 101 when it comes to running a military. This is -- absolutely everything that's described by the soldiers here is the exact antithesis of what you should be doing as a military leader.

And I look at this and see how difficult it must be, then, for the Russians to move forward. This is not going to be the way that they can do this kind of offensive, these kinds of offensive operations and do them in a coherent way, if that's the leadership climate that they have.

CABRERA: And we're just getting some reporting on some additional intercepts in which Russian soldiers refer to an alleged order to kill Ukrainian POWs.

Steve, your reaction to this?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I would agree with Cedric on this that these do seem to be legitimate. It's not impossible that the Ukrainians, of course, that the SBU has somehow fabricated this.

But they have a track record of being good at intercepts. And they also have a track record of doing precisely what we're doing right now with other Western countries, which is getting that intelligence out there quickly, so that the West has a better -- well, so that everybody has a better idea as to precisely some of the command-and- control and morale issues that are happening.

So, the more that these intercepts come out, the more we're going to have insights as to how difficult it is for the Russians to go forward. Not to say it's not going to be difficult for the Ukrainians to fight back, because the Russians have a bigger war machine. But the Ukrainians have been very resilient.

And as long as the Russians continue to have these morale issues, it's going to be a tough row for -- to hoe for both of them.

CABRERA: Steve, if authentic, obviously, these Russian soldiers were communicating in a way that was accessible, some kind of open channel, it appears. Do you think the Russians were being careless? Or was this intentional? Did they want this out there?

HALL: Well, I think it's certainly not a good sign of discipline on the Russian -- on the Russians' part.

I mean, it's really communications security 101. You don't pick up your phone, if that's what it was in this particular case, and talk about these things, or you don't push -- pick up your push-to-talk radio if it's not encrypted and talk about these things.

That said, if what these guys were actually talking about is true, if they don't trust their commanders, they're not getting fed, they feel like they're getting messed with by the Russian military, then perhaps they don't really care anymore as to whether or not this stuff gets out, and they're just going to talk about it because they're really angry.

CABRERA: Colonel, Putin is now focused on taking Mariupol, publicly directing Russian forces to block that steel plant where Ukrainian forces and civilians are sheltering, so that -- quote -- "A fly can't get through."

Right now, Ukrainian forces still hold this plant. So what can those Ukrainian forces do at this point?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it's really tough for them, Ana.

This situation that they're in is -- it's basically a siege for them. They're surrounded. There's very little that they can do, barring help from some outside force. And that seems like a really faint possibility at this point, because I don't think the Russians would agree to anything like that.

I mean, every time they talk about a humanitarian corridor, there's always some issue with that. And you can bet there would be issues with actual fighters, actual military members of the Ukrainian armed forces being let out of Mariupol without surrendering. In fact, I believe Putin has said that he would not allow that.

So that is, I think, a very bad place for the Ukrainians to be in. On the other hand, it gives the Ukrainians one heck of a propaganda boost when it comes to what will happen to these people. They will be martyrs, if I think the worst will happen here. And if that does come to pass, I think it will be certainly bad for them on a personal level.

But from the Ukrainian political perspective, it could quite well galvanize the nation again.

CABRERA: At the top of the show, we showed these new images that appear to be mass graves that are seen by satellite just outside the city of Mariupol. And, yesterday, only four evacuation buses were able to leave this port city.

Today, the mayor says there's no possibility to evacuate civilians from that steel plant.

[13:20:00]

Steve, what is the strategy of not letting civilians leave this area?

HALL: There's a couple of things at play here, Ana, I think.

The first is the Russian military, indeed, the Russian government's use of terror as a policy. So, whether or not it's using your security services or your secret police services to try to poison people in your country, or whether or not it's indiscriminate bombing and killing of innocents in Ukraine, that's a policy thing. That's a thing that the Russians want to cause the Ukrainians to feel, which is terror.

And the goal of that is to try to demoralize. Now, of course, it can also have the other outcome as well, which is that it can have a sort of a solidifying effect amongst the Ukrainian forces and the Ukrainian populace.

But, really, the bottom line, Ana, is, is that Putin doesn't care. He does not care how many civilians he kills. He doesn't care how many of them he has to put in the ground. He doesn't care whether or not he destroys buildings that are not military targets. This is not the way the Russians wage war.

The Russians wage war by throwing their troops at things and using heavy armaments from a distance. And he just doesn't care what the results of that are. It's not really a professional army, in my view. But I will -- I will defer to the military professionals on that matter.

CABRERA: But, Steve, nothing has been able to stop Putin at this point, the sanctions, all the military aid sent to Ukraine, even these Russian business leaders who are speaking out against him.

Why? And is he winning this war?

HALL: I really don't think that there's any measure in which we can say that Vladimir Putin is winning this war.

Certainly, he currently controls the south and the east of the country. Of course, we all know he failed with what he thought he was going to be able to accomplish early on, which is taking Kyiv and controlling the entirety of the country. So, right now, he controls he controls a small swathe, but an important swathe across the southern part of the country.

The question in my mind is, over the long run, will Putin really or -- and Russia be able to control any part of Ukraine over the long term? If we're talking about getting into some sort of guerrilla warfare and insurgency warfare that's going to last five, 10 years out, I think it's going to be a really difficult thing for the Russians at the end of that time to be able to explain to their people or anybody else in the world how this was a successful military operation for them.

CABRERA: Steve Hall, thanks so much.

And, Colonel Cedric Leighton, I know you turned around to get back to do my show. Thank you so much for doing that. I really appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Ana. Any time.

CABRERA: Interest rates are rising, but home prices are through the roof. And they are keeping Americans from buying. Will that change anytime soon?

And the Justice Department is fighting a judge's decision to strike down a mask mandate for public transportation. So, if you're traveling now, do you mask up or not?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:40]

CABRERA: Breaking news out of Florida now.

The state's GOP-controlled legislature just voted to strip Disney of its special status. I want to get right to CNN's Dianne Gallagher in Tallahassee.

Dianne, what are you learning?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

So, essentially, what happened here was, this was a vote that was done while there was an act of protest by black Democratic members of the Florida House happening. So there was no debate on this for final debate in the House before that vote or on another bill that would eliminate a carve-out from a social media bill that was designated for Disney last year.

Now, essentially, what the special district being dissolved would do, if, in fact, it eventually happens on the date set of June 2023, would potentially not only get rid of that self-governing district that operates around the Orlando area theme park, but also potentially seat taxpayers in two Florida counties with more than a billion dollars' worth of debt that they must in some way absorb.

Now, look, there are still a lot of questions about how this could legally even happen, because there's a current Florida state statute that says that the members of that special district would have to vote first before it could be dissolved.

During the question-and-answer sessions. Republican bill sponsors didn't seem to have answers for specifics, including on how that debt would be absorbed that Disney has. According to Democratic lawmakers, we could be talking about adding between $2,200 and $2,800 of property taxes for people who live in Orange County.

And, again, they're not entirely sure how this would work out. Many Democrats are calling it a distraction from the redistricting maps that were also just passed during that protest that would eliminate two black-held congressional seats, as well as give Republicans 20 of the 28, potentially, congressional seats in the state.

CABRERA: All right, there is a lot that is going to potentially come of this specific vote.

Dianne Gallagher, thank you for the update.

And yet another twist in the maddening debate on masks and travel. The Justice Department is formally appealing a federal judge's decision to strike down the transportation mask mandate.

CNN's Evan Perez is here.

And so, Evan, this doesn't necessarily mean masks are coming back right away, if ever, right?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Exactly, Ana.

We don't see the Justice Department asking for a stay of that ruling, which would have the effect of setting aside the judge's order and bringing back.