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Ukraine: Evidence of Mass Graves Outside Mariupol; White House Brings on 3-Star General to Coordinate Ukraine Aid; DOJ Appeals Federal Ruling on Transportation Mask Mandate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:53]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell. Thank you for staying with me.

We begin with reported new evidence of how deadly Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine has become. Ukrainian officials now say they've identified multiple mass graves just outside the near decimated port city of Mariupol. The satellite company said more than 200 new graves can be seen.

Today, Vladimir Putin proclaimed the efforts to capture Mariupol a success and he scrapped plans to storm a sprawling factory compound where reportedly more than 1,000 civilians and Ukrainian fighters are sheltering. Instead, he directed his military to set up a blockade to keep even a fly from getting through.

Ukraine's president compared Putin's siege of Mariupol to a terrorist operation, and he added that Ukraine's forces do not have enough heavy or serious weapons to free Mariupol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We don't know when we can unblock Mariupol, and I say this openly, that all the boys in Mariupol want our victory, they want a free city. None of them are going to surrender to the enemy. First, it involves serious and heavy weapons. At the moment, we don't have enough of these weapons to free Mariupol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, more weapons and ammunition from the U.S. are on the way. President Biden announced another $800 million in military assistance to Ukraine today. That includes 144,000 rounds of ammunition. Biden invoked a famous line to underscore the importance of that aid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I won't always be able to advertise everything that our partners are doing to support Ukraine in its fight for freedom. But to modernize Teddy Roosevelt's famous advice, sometimes we will speak softly and carry a large javelin, because we're sending a lot of those in as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Matt Rivers is in the city of Lviv.

Matt, let's start here with the report of these mass graves found in a village outside Mariupol. What do you know?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is the first evidence or at least the first real concrete evidence we're seeing of mass graves in and around the Mariupol region, Victor. And, unfortunately, there's a sense when you talk to people from Mariupol, you talk to officials there, you know, you get numbers tossed around like 20,000 civilians by some estimates of the amount of civilians that have been killed there.

And what's happening in Mariupol and these images of these mass graves, I don't think we can take that in a vacuum. We have to remember what we have seen in the northern part of Ukraine. Remember what we've seen in places like Bucha after Russian troops withdrew ample evidence of not only mass graves but just other war crimes being committed and you could argue that what has gone on in Mariupol in terms of the scale of the destruction, the longer time Russian troops have been there, that the opportunity for Russian troops to do those kinds of horrific atrocities that we saw on Bucha, it's only been longer in Mariupol.

So, there's a fear amongst people that we're speaking to here in Ukraine, that images like this mass grave might just be the tip of the iceberg if and when people, Ukrainian forces, independent journalists, other people can get in to that region and actually document what has happened in Mariupol over the past weeks and months.

[15:05:09]

BLACKWELL: Matt, we talked about the humanitarian corridors that, really, just not have not held up, but there is new reporting that some residents of the city were able to get to Zaporizhzhia today.

What do you know about that?

RIVERS: I mean, anybody getting out, right, is a good thing, Victor. No question about that. But we're talking about a minuscule number, roughly 80 people or so have managed to make it out of Zaporizhzhia. When you consider that number against the fact that the Ukrainian government is saying something like 120,000 residents in and around Mariupol need to be evacuated, the number just pales in comparison to the need.

And, unfortunately, the humanitarian corridor that was opened yesterday, the one that was opened today. And yesterday, only four buses managed to leave. Today, some 200 people roughly according to the city's mayor queued up ready to leave and the buses never showed up. The Ukrainians are basing that on two things, Russian disorganization

and dishonesty and, two, continued violations by Russian troops of ceasefires, basically continuing shelling that makes operating safely in these humanitarian corridors all but impossible.

But no matter the reason, Victor, we're still left with the outcome here which is the fact that hundreds -- 120,000 people still need to be evacuated.

BLACKWELL: Matt Rivers there for us in Lviv -- Matt, thank you very much.

The White House has brought on a retired three-star general to help coordinate military assistance in Ukraine. Today, President Biden announced, as I said, an additional $800 million of military aid will be sent to the country.

CNN's chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins with us now.

So, what more do you know about this general and his role?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Victor, this is Terry Wolf, he's a retired three star general that they are bringing on to the National Security Council to help coordinate the hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance that the United States is sending to Ukraine. Of course, it's not just the United States sending assistance whether it'd be in the form of weapons or money as well. You heard what President Biden said today, they are also sending hundreds of millions to help with the government expenses that they have that they still have going on, salaries and what not. But also, other nations are sending in assistance as well.

And so, they're bringing on Terry Wolf who has experience not only at the Pentagon but the State Department, the Joint Chiefs and the National Security Council as well, which is where he's going to be a special employees at this time, to try to help coordinate this, because you've only got this new $800 million that President Biden announced today which looks like the package they announced last week which stood out in and of itself, Victor, of course, because it's a lot heavier duty than the packages that we've seen previously but it also seems to foreshadow this will not be the last military assistance package to go to Ukraine, because we know President Biden is going to ask Congress for the authority to have more funding, more weaponry go that route. And now, they've brought someone on to help coordinate it all.

BLACKWELL: Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much.

Joining me is now retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons.

Let's start with Mariupol, that's the city that really so much of what's happening is focused on. Is it clear that Russia is in control of the city?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): They likely are in control of the city. And the bottom line forces are surrounded here at the steel factory. You know, it's difficult decision to make. Commanders expect losses in these things. But if you look at -- you put a cordon around Mariupol, if you come around the city, the bottom line it would take a division, 4,000 men of armored and infantry vehicles and the like to come in to try to pierce that area that the Russians control.

The Ukraine military doesn't have that. They don't have that. They've traded it off. They put that to the Donbas region. So, it is a difficult decision from their perspective, but I think it's the right one. They should be negotiating to try to get those lives alive, but right now, I think, for all practical purposes, the city is lost.

BLACKWELL: So, let's talk about Azovstal, the plant you were talking about. Instead of storming it, Putin says that's not necessary, just seal it in his words, so the fly can't get through. Is that just as effective strategically?

LYONS: Yeah, let's not give him a lot of credit for this. I mean, in some ways he would lose a lot of Russian soldiers doing that of that's an equivalent to eating a porcupine. They would go in and fight street to street and clearly, the Ukraine military has been successful at those battles. Perhaps if the Ukraine military get its air force up and running they could do some close air support and help them.

But Putin, again, no favors. He realizes he would lose scores of Russian soldiers trying to actually take it.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the new aid. I saw you nodding during Kaitlan's report. Another $800 million after $800 million last week, 72 of the howitzers, 144,000 artillery rounds for those. What do you think about this package?

LYONS: Yeah, Victor, I'm a former artillery officer. It warms my heart. M777 howitzer has been in services. It's about 2005 by the United States. It's been used successfully in combat in Afghanistan.

[15:10:01]

This is going to allow the artillery to do three major objectives -- move, shoot, communicate. That's what the artillery does. They're going to get this as fast as they can to the Donbas region, get in tight with those forces that are there, as they prepare that active defense, and they'll provide tremendous firepower very quickly.

Now, the reason why they're mobile is because they're going to have to move. The Russians, once you fire that round, the Russians know where it's coming from. They're going to have to shoot that round, and move and go to this place to another location. But this is the kind of heavy fire support the Russians will be afraid of that will, again, given the Ukraine military a chance to defeat Russia in the artillery war.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about the strategy of weapons this week, weapons last week, kind of this weekly tranche of support. Is that the best way for this war -- maybe not all wars -- but this war to give support to Ukraine? LYONS: Right now it is. It's still fundamentally a regional conflict. I think we're getting it to the border. The Ukraine military still has the challenging mission getting it across the border and to travel 300 miles. The key thing is these vehicles that go with the artillery is going to have the ammunition that's going to be with them, so they're going to take as much as they can across the border. There's still a tough mission for the Ukraine military but this is a tremendous way to support them. It's only going to get more.

BLACKWELL: Let me get your reaction to some audio. It is purportedly Russian troops talking to one another. It was intercepted in which they suggested they've been abandoned. Let's play it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): We sat there for three days without (EXPLETIVE DELETED) anything. Our commanders, they received provisions, cigarettes, food, and our command have all (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off. They abandoned everyone and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off. We don't even know where they are.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Your reaction hearing that?

LYONS: You know, it's another example of the Russian military doesn't care about their own troops. They leave them dead on the battlefield. No leadership, no none commissioner officer leadership, not a trained military. Every single day, Russia proves itself it's not a professional military. This is another example.

We're going to see many more. We said from the very beginning how the Russian soldier engaged with the Ukraine civilian would determine how this would go and what we've seen them do? We've seen them shoot them in the back of the heads, as they've acted in ways that are beyond atrocious, clearly in the line of war crimes.

BLACKWELL: Major Mike Lyons, thank you.

LYONS: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: Well, it quickly turned from a military appreciation night into an emergency evacuation at the capital. We've got new details about the communications fumble at the Washington Nationals game.

And the DOJ is appealing the judge's ruling that threw out the federal transportation mask mandate. We'll explain why, next.

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[15:16:57]

BLACKWELL: New details about the parachuting event that led to an evacuation order at the U.S. Capitol. The Army Golden Knights parachuted into the Nationals Park but Capital Police say they never received the standard heads-up from the FAA. CNN's Whitney Wild joins us now.

Whitney, I've seen the video of people running out of the Capitol building. How did this happen?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning more details, but here's what we know, Victor. At this point, the FAA says it's going to do a thorough and expeditious review of this incident and what we're learning is that from multiple sources, Capitol police told congressional staff that the standard alerts by the FAA for this type of event, this is flight in a restricted zone, they didn't get that, that the FAA did not send that out to Capitol Police.

The Army's Golden Knights parachute team said they did everything they were supposed to do, they filed all the required paperwork, they got FAA approval before the jump. The Army said last night they would be reviewing that flight after the review. The Army said it confirmed the parachute team filed all appropriate and required Federal Aviation Administration documentation and got FAA approval.

Capitol Police, victor, standing by that decision saying sometimes you have to make quick calls. Seconds matter here. They made the decision they made and sometimes that decision in a worse scenario could be life and death scenario. So, they're standing by this quick and decisive choice that they made what they thought was a critical moment.

Why these decisions -- what led up to this? What was going on internally, there are still some outstanding questions. But at this point what we know is that Capitol police, again, told congressional staff they did not get the alert that they normally get when there's an event like this, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Certainly frightening a year after January 6th.

Whitney Wild for us there in Washington, thank you.

Well, the Justice Department is appealing a federal judge's ruling that struck down the mask mandate for mass transportation. This challenge came at the request of the CDC which argues masking during travel is still necessary for public health, but the appeal did not include a request to keep the mandate in effect while it is under review. Some legal experts say that's an indication that this is less about the current COVID-19 conditions and more about preserving the CDC's authority for future cases.

For more on this, let's bring in now, CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

So, Elizabeth, this government mask mandate for travel is now in the hands of the legal system, but there's new public opinion polling. What can you tell us?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There is new polling. It's from Axios. I have to tell you I was surprised. There was much more support for wearing masks and for requiring masks in airports than I would have thought and not just among Democrats.

Let's look what Axios found when they asked about mask requirements in airports. The total was 75 percent in support. Democrats, not shockingly, 91 percent -- in other words much more so than Republicans. But still, that was 57 percent, that was more than half.

[15:20:03]

Now, let's take a look at what happened when "Axios" asked if folks are very likely to wear a mask in airports. Total, almost half said they were likely to still wear a mask. Democrats 58 percent, Republicans 34 percent.

Now, Victor, I have a theory, I have no science behind this, but I have a theory which is that I think that people found while they were masking that they actually got fewer colds and other kinds of viruses, that this isn't necessarily so much about COVID, but people found, oh, you know what, masks actually do kind of work. Just anecdotally we've been hearing that. So, maybe that's why they feel this way -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, I haven't had a cold for as long as I wore a mask. As annoying as the mask was, it certainly did help.

Let me ask you about families that are now having to make travel changes or canceling plans because of this, and you spoke with one.

COHEN: That's right. So, we spoke with the Golder (ph) family. They live just north of New York City and they have a daughter, a 4-year- old, Haven, who cannot be vaccinated because she's too young and the family was supposed to travel this summer.

They were going to go to Los Angeles. They were maybe going to go to Europe. And they decided not to take those plans because they didn't want their child who is completely unprotected to be on a plane with a bunch of people who aren't masked.

Now, that's their decision. Not every family is making that decision. We spoke to Dr. William Schaffner, who's been a longtime vaccine adviser, to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. And he said, look, on the one hand if your child, your under 5 child, is out and about in day care every day or preschool, they're getting plenty of germs there. Maybe the plane isn't so much. But he said, you are on a plane there are some things can you do.

Let's take a listen to Dr. Schaffner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, INFECTIOUS DISEASES PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: I would think that going on a plane exposes them to any more risk than they might be exposed to in the community in everyday activities. I would do everything I could to minimize the risk, try to keep the mask on myself and my children, of course, and then also do as much social distancing as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: Now the Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla, he said this week that he thinks there could be a decision on vaccines for children under the age of 5 in June. I think that would give the family we were talking to as well as other families a much better feeling about traveling. Sure, everyone is unmasked but at least their child will be vaccinated -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, we have to remember for those kids under 5 that masks may be the only protection that they have. Elizabeth Cohen for us, thank you.

Ukrainian officials claim disturbing satellite images show mass graves just outside of Mariupol, the city president Putin now claims is liberated. Next, I'll speak to a member of Ukraine's parliament about the situation there.

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[15:27:47]

BLACKWELL: A Ukrainian official says that 79 residents of the devastated city of Mariupol have been safely evacuated to Zaporizhzhia today. Now, that's out of an estimated 100,000-plus civilians still trapped there.

Joining me now is a member of Ukraine's parliament, Sofiya Fedyna.

Thank you for being with me here today.

I want to get to that in just a moment. But, first, your reaction to the breaking news, the satellite images that show up, according to the satellite company, up to 200 graves, these mass graves outside of Mariupol.

Hearing that, what do you think? What do you feel?

SOFIYA FEDYNA, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Unfortunately, we knew something like that would be there because when Mariupol was surrounded by Moscow troops, they started massive killings, killings of civilians. I do care about some soldiers from 2014, the soldiers in Mariupol right now and after we got the images from Bucha, they wrote me that what you see in Mariupol will be much, much worse than you see by Kyiv.

Unfortunately, Moscow federation officials are claiming that they are attacking only military infrastructure but they attack, first of all, civilians. And they do this deliberately. They want to make panic among Ukrainians. They want to show more casualties for Ukrainians to get scared, but we see that they just exterminate people in the largest Moscow language speaking cities of Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about Azovstal. Of course, this is the steel and iron plant in Mariupol. The Russians have surrounded it. Putin says that he's not going to storm it, his forces won't go in but they were going to seal it off.

What's the latest you know about what's happening there?

FEDYNA: What I do know that all this day, they were shelling the Azovstal and they were attacking it heavily. And our soldiers were reporting attacks, ongoing attacks.

So, everything that Putin claimed, it's just a lie as they do all the time not only during this stage of invasion, these 56 days of invasion, but what they do throughout all the history of Ukraine's independence.