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Interview with Sofiya Fedyna, Ukrainian Parliament Member: Not Enough Heavy Weapons for Ukraine to Free Mariupol; Johnny Depp's Profane Texts Entered into Evidence; Obama Warns of Disinformation in Speech at Stanford University. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: There is no indication that Ukraine's Western allies are going to come in to help to evacuate those civilians, the wounded fighters, who are there at this facility. President Zelenskyy says that the country doesn't have enough serious, heavy weapons to fight the Russians there is Mariupol. Is this a concern of weapons alone? Do you think that's all that's needed or more is needed to retake Mariupol?

FEDYNA: I think that we need several layers of support -- several levels of support and the weapons is one of them. Because there is heavy discussion, I know, in the West whether the troops of other countries should intervene and help Ukraine. Taking care of the soldiers since 2014, I can say that we have amazing army and amazing defenders of Ukraine. But actually, they need mechanisms and instruments to not only to defend but only to get rid of Moscow troops on Ukrainian territory.

And, yes, we need heavy weaponry. Yes, we need planes. Yes, we need all the possible systems to close the sky and to stop the air attacks that are the most killing right now in this moment.

But on the other hand, we need all the possible package of instruments to make Moscow Federation weaker, to -- not to give it more money to supply its own troops, and that goes to sanctions. And one of the greatest points, to switch up the SWIFT to all the Moscow banks. But on the other hand, this is a question of embargo on oil and, first of all on oil, on gas and other energy supplies. So, every day Moscow Federation gets only through the Black Sea 50 billion and that is only one way. But to talk about all the world if much more money that we are still giving the Moscow Federation to go on with this war. The third -- just very shortly.

BLACKWELL: Go ahead.

FEDYNA: We should think over the question not to discuss with Putin and negotiate how the situation will develop in Ukraine. But we have to discuss how to punish this terrorist regime. How to punish this modern Nazi, I would say, we call them in Ukraine Russianists and how to make Moscow Federation not only to get away from Ukraine but to pay for everything it did not only in Ukraine but also in Georgia, in Syria and in many other countries.

BLACKWELL: It's interesting that you bring up that there should be no negotiations. There should be only the discussion of punishment. And I wonder what you think then of hearing from one of President Zelenskyy's top advisers that in a week and a half or so that there can be some clarity around direct talks between Putin and Zelenskyy to bring this to an end. Do you think there's potential that these two sides can sit across from each other and negotiate the end?

FEDYNA: Two points. Zelenskyy still believes that Putin can negotiate with him, but for the three last year Putin does not want to talk to Zelenskyy. And I think that our president is still a bit naive about who Putin is. Putin is just a serial killer, a serial murderer, and he does not care not only about Ukrainians but of his own people.

The second point, the negotiations should go on but those should be definite questions to be discussed. And one of them is a definite ceasefire. The second is humanitarian corridors. And the third the exchange of people who got into prison and wounded people that are still on the occupied territories. I think these points should be negotiated at any position. But the question Moscow Federation wants to negotiate the points that cancel the existence of Ukraine. So, these points like get rid of NATO, get rid of the European Union, recognize the occupation of Crimea, annexation of Donbas, refusal of Ukrainian land bridge and Ukrainian church. These are inapplicable for Ukrainians and no one is going to agree with that.

BLACKWELL: Sofiya Fedyna, thank you so much.

Johnny Depp is back on the witness stand in his defamation case against his ex-wife and facing questions over the profane text messages he sent about Amber Heard throughout their relationship. We've got details ahead.

But first, this Sunday night on CNN the unbelievable true story of the man who took on Putin and then lived to expose the truth. Here is a quick preview of the Sundance award winning CNN film "Navalny."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.

[15:35:00]

ALEXEY NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER (through translated text): It's Alexey Navalny calling and I was hoping you could tell me why you wanted to kill me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remarkably, Vladimir Putin face as legitimate opponent, Alexey Navalny.

NAVALNY: I don't want Putin being president. If I want to be leader of a country, I have to organize people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kremlin hates Navalny so much that they refuse to say his name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Passengers Heard Navalny cry out in agony.

NAVALNY: Come on, poisoned? Seriously?

We are creating a coalition to fight this regime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are killed, what message do you leave behind to the Russian people?

NAVALNY: It's very simple. Never give up.

ANNOUNCER: "Navalny" Sunday at 9:00 on CNN and streaming on CNN+.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

BLACKWELL: Johnny Depp is back on the stand today for cross- examination in his $50 million defamation trial against his ex-wife Amber Heard. Earlier Heard's lawyer entered into evidence a collection of Depp's profanity laden text messages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On January 17, 2013, Mr. Depp, you texted the following. For the idiot cow, three exclamation points. Next text: Will do. I'll smack the ugly (BLEEP) around before I let her in. Don't worry.

Apologies again to the court and the jury for this language. And then you close by saying, did that worthless hooker arrive? Did I read that right?

JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: You did, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Jean Casarez if following the latest for us. I mean, just hearing those, some harsh, harsh descriptions of his wife there.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, this -- you never know what's going to happen on a cross-examination. But the way this case has turned around with this cross attacking his credibility on every front. Let me tell you something that just happened.

I think we've heard the story now that in Australia he's shooting "Pirates of the Caribbean." She comes to visit. She throws a vodka bottle and it severs off part of his finger. The defense is now attacking that saying it didn't happen at all. There was no glass in your finger when you went to the hospital, trying to pin it now on him that he did it to himself and he's just trying to say Amber did it.

Also, drugs and alcohol focused so much on the cross-examination. He admitted that on the direct examination but now, according to the defense, it was a life of drugs and alcohol and every turn, every way. Even during the making of motion pictures which goes to more damages because then if his career ended the defense can say it's because of your conduct not hers. But how did he feel about Amber Heard, the woman that he is supposed to love? I want you to listen to the courtroom about a text message that he sent to a friend of his, a guy friend. Not Amber. But it shows his state of mind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After you said let's drown her before we burn her, Mr. Depp, you said I will (BLEEP) her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she is dead. That's what you said that you would do after you burned her and after you drowned her. Did I read that right?

DEPP: You certainly did, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you wrote that about the woman who would later become your wife?

DEPP: Yes, I did.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: So, it not only shows his state of mind but the defense went after him saying you consider yourself a southern gentleman, don't you? He said, yes, I do. I try to do that. And then that's when they went into that text.

So, there are a lot of questions here at this point, right. The other side -- his side is going to be able to rehabilitate him, but I think many people are wondering now why was this action brought? He brought this defamation suit saying you, Amber Heard, defamed me in this op-ed and many questions still remain.

Now we haven't heard him strike her at all. There is no testimony that he hit her. There are some things heinous insults he admitted to her. Is that abuse? Emotional abuse? Quite possibly. So, we have to see exactly where this develops. And she's going to take the stand. We heard that in opening statements.

BLACKWELL: And she also has a suit against him as well.

CASAREZ: She does. She has a counter suit. But this is primarily at this point his suit against her. But we're going to hear from her what he allegedly did to her emotionally, physically, sexually.

BLACKWELL: Jean Casarez, thanks for watching it for us.

All right, happening now at Stanford University, former President Barack Obama is issuing a new warning of the dangers of disinformation. We'll get into that next.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Right now, former President Barack Obama is delivering a major speech on the dangers of disinformation. He's speaking at a conference at Stanford University and he's warning that democracies around the world are at risk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Vladimir Putin's aggression is part of a larger trend. Even if similar levels of oppression and lawlessness and violence and suffering don't always attract the same levels of attention if they happen outside of Europe. The fact is autocrats and aspiring strongmen have become emboldened around the globe.

[15:50:00]

They're actively subverting democracy. They're undermining hard-won human rights. They're ignoring international law. Worse yet, democratic backsliding isn't restricted to distant lands. Right here in the United States of America we just saw a sitting president deny the clear results of an election and help incite a violent insurrection at the nation's capital.

Not only that, but a majority of his party, including many who occupy some of the highest offices in the land, continue to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the last election. And are using it to justify laws that restrict the vote and make it easier to overturn the will of the people in states where they hold power.

So, for those of us who believe in democracy and the rule of law, this should serve as a wake-up call. We have to admit that at least in the years since the cold war ended, democracies have grown dangerously complacent. But too often we've taken freedom for granted. What recent events remind us is that democracy is neither inevitable nor self- executing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Here now is CNN senior political analyst John Avlon. John, we were talking during the break. It's clear to you that former President Obama is making this a significant part of his post- presidency.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. I mean, this has been billed as a major policy speech. And that he wants to dedicate a lot of his post-presidential focus on defending democracies by confronting disinformation. And so, you can hear the continuity though in this speech from comments he's made previously to even his farewell address as president, where he talked about many of these themes. What I think is different is he wants to start pivoting towards

solutions. He wants to start focusing on what can be done to beat back the rising tide of disinformation that autocrats so often use to undermine democracy. One of the things he did before the speech is post a syllabus of sorts, so Professor Obama. Articles from the "Atlantic" and "Wired" and "The New York Times" highlighting some of the reports that have been done on how to define this problem and then confront it. So, this is the beginning of a significant effort by the ex-president.

BLACKWELL: And what he talked about, getting some updates as this is still happening right now at Stanford, about institutions that have become complacent. Those that are relied upon to protect democracy, to fight disinformation, in some ways not as reliable as they once were.

AVLON: Well, he's talked about the way institutions have been corrupted by disinformation, by people who are trying to undermine the integrity of democracy. How much democracy depends upon being able to reason together around a common set of facts. And the way that the technology and social media in particular has chipped away at that ability. Sometimes by design, sometimes through just a backlash to globalization because it's threatened a lot of tribal identities that people have taken for granted.

So, you have a confluence of technology and globalization that's coming together at a time where all of a sudden democracies seem to decline and autocracies seem on the rise. But it's our responsibility, of course, collectively to push back as citizens of self-governing societies. And that's going to require a degree of media literacy. It's going to require being able to define, to be able to identify disinformation and then tell stories that unite us rather than divide us.

BLACKWELL: Is it clear beyond these speeches and framing the problem what his solutions are and how he'll be a part of that?

AVLON: The speech is going on right now, so I'm not going to cut to the chase because I can't predict how he's going to end. But you can look at the articles he's citing. To start saying -- he's going to focus I think a lot on storytelling, a lot of how we can educate young people. To identifying disinformation. But that's going to be the key, focusing on the solutions, not just the problems.

BLACKWELL: Yes, of course, invoke the disinformation we're watching coming out of Russia, of course, from Vladimir Putin and his war continuing for now two months. We've got something fun here for you. Your former boss, Rudy Giuliani, in the spotlight again. This time, big reveal on "The Masked Singer."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my goodness! Former associate Attorney General, former mayor of New York City --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that Robert Duvall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's not Robert Duvall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rudy Giuliani!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No way!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The breadth and different types of shock from the audience, from the judges and even here I guess from Rudy Giuliani. Ex-attorney for former President Trump told host Nick Cannon that he came on the show to show his granddaughter that she should try everything, even things that are completely unlike -- well, he just said it himself.

[15:55:00]

Your reaction now to this reveal.

AVLON: Oh, God. I mean, you know, look, complete mortification. But I think is remarkable that somebody who loves opera as much as he does can sing so badly. Granted he was trying to sing George Thorogood's "Bad to the Bone" and that's something that I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. But look, I think this is unfortunately just another milestone in the attention-seeking Rudy that seems miles away from the mayor of America who led us through 9/11.

BLACKWELL: Why would he agree to that song? Why would you pick "Bad to the Bone"?

AVLON: I think if he tried opera -- which was his first inclination -- it would have been even worse.

BLACKWELL: Ken Jeong walked off the stage after that reveal.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)