Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Russian Troops Frustrated with Their Leader; Thousands Trapped Inside Mariupol; Charity Institutions Continue to Help Refugees; Civilians Are Hopeful but Skeptical with Russians; DOJ Appeal Mask Ruling; Emmanuel Macron Leading in the Polls; Russian Oligarch Pissed Off with Insane War; Boris Johnson Haunted by Partygate Scandal; Russia's Invasion of Ukraine Affects All Russians; Tension Between Israelis and Palestinians Not Winding Down. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired April 21, 2022 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause, live in Lviv, Ukraine.

Coming up, negotiations continue to open up evacuation corridors for the hard-hit city of Mariupol, but still, so too, the Russian involvement of that city. No letting up as well. Details on that this hour.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rosemary Church in Atlanta, with the latest on the Biden administration fighting back against the court ruling that's has struck down the mask mandate for public transportation.

VAUSE: We begin in Mariupol where officials are hoping to try again today to evacuate women, children and the elderly from that besieged port city. We do know from a Ukrainian fighter there telling -- a televised address that Russian shelling continues while negotiations are also underway to try and open up more evacuation corridors.

But this is just a fraction of trying to get up of what they hope to accomplish in terms of evacuations so far. About a dozen buses were left empty, only four buses manage to get out on Wednesday. As Ukrainians said that Russian forces were not able to adhere to a ceasefire for a much larger humanitarian corridor.

A Ukrainian marine commander reports that Mariupol is still under constant bombardment. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his forces do not have the heavy weapons needed to defend the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): According to our information, they're keeping 120,000 people in besieged Mariupol. Crimes that are happening there are far more scary and in larger scale than in Borodyanka. I'm confident that with combined efforts, we can bring all of those responsible to justice, and I promise you we'll find them all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Now to a bleak assessment from the Luhansk military governor who says no town is safe. Russian troops are destroying everything in their path. The government says 80 percent of Luhansk region is under Russian control as they push on with a new offensive to capture all of the Donbas in the east.

U.S. defense officials tell CNN that Russia has added 17 battalion tactical groups in Ukraine over the past week. Meanwhile, Russia testified a nearly developed advanced intercontinental ballistic missile on Wednesday. The RS-28 dubbed the Sarmat 2 by NATO, is capable of carrying a much bigger nuclear payload.

President Vladimir Putin says it should make Russia's enemies think twice. Despite the timing, the U.S. says that it's not overly concerned about the missile test.

And there is growing evidence of trouble within the ranks of the Russian military, recent intercepts of conversations among Russian troops show frustration, at times anger over poor leadership by unit commanders. CNN's Jim Sciutto has details on the intercepts which were released by Ukrainian security service. And a warning, the images in his report are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: As Russia's attack on the east intensifies, there is new evidence that some of its own soldiers have had enough. The security service of Ukraine releasing purported new intercepted communications among Russian soldiers, one man recounting a conversation he had with his commander. He can be heard saying we asked the commander quote, "what shall we do? We got nothing." He says, the commander told them "f-ing shoot all the civilians to the end." And then warned the troops, quote, "whoever leaves their post will be a deserter."

That's when another soldier on the recording can be heard saying, "tell them to f-off." As the conversation continues, the soldier then complaining that Russia has all but abandoned them saying, "just imagine, they didn't provide a way to retreat, didn't say anything, didn't even bring food. F them."

CNN cannot vouch for the authenticity of the recording, but Ukraine has previously released audio of Russian soldiers, and that Russian troops have used unsecured lines of communication according to military observers.

And as the war enters its 56th day, new images reveal how the situation in Mariupol is getting worse by the hour. Bodies piling up from the nonstop shelling, and fierce street fighting, human remains lining the streets, some with bullet holes in their backs. Others killed by missile strikes. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says that the slaughter is the worse that Ukraine has witnessed.

[03:05:03]

ZELENSKYY (through translator): The crimes that are happening there are for more scary and in larger scale than in Borodyanka.

SCIUTTO: Borodyanka, the town outside of Kyiv where Russian troops killed numerous civilians and left behind utter destruction.

The president of the European Council visiting the town today and meeting with Zelenskyy. Saying that Russia's assault has left him speechless.

CHARLES MICHEL, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COUNCIL: There are no words in order to explain what I feel, not as president of the European Council but as a father, as a human being, these are atrocities, these are war crimes. It must be punished. It will be punished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: European Council president there finishing that report by Jim Sciutto. Well, the U.N. says more than five million people have now fled this country since the fighting began. That's in addition to seven million people who are displaced within Ukraine. More than two million have headed to Poland. And now the Polish border guard reports over the weekend, more people actually returned to Ukraine than those who actually went to Poland for the first time since the war began.

And our next guest has seen this humanitarian crisis up close and firsthand. Alisson -- Alice Jefferson is head of emergency responses for the organization ShelterBox. She is with us this hour from Lviv.

Alice, thank you for being with us.

What are your expectations in the coming weeks in terms of what the short-term needs will be for this Russian military offensive wrapping up in the east?

ALICE JEFFERSON, HEAD OF EMERGENCY RESPONSES, SHELTERBOX: Unfortunately, our expectations are that they are already dire situation is going to get worse for the people within Ukraine. We've already seen a mass exodus, you know, five million refugees fleeing, but our focus and our expectation is that the situation for those trapped in some of the hard-to-reach areas who are already displaced within other cities in Ukraine, the needs are going to be greater.

VAUSE: My impression of ShelterBox is that it deals with the immediate aftermath of a crisis, from natural disaster or war, that kind of stuff. Providing essentials like food and shelter. There is clearly been a need for that and there still is, but as this war drags on and goes into months, are you transitioning to a long-term operation?

JEFFERSON: Anyway, we are, as you say, ShelterBox is here providing urgency shelter and other items. We are focusing on people who might be in collective centers, so we are providing things like mattresses so that people can get a good night sleep if there are on the move or if they are relocated because of what's happened at home.

And we are also trying to focus on providing kits for people in areas in northern Kyiv, such as Bucha, where we have heard so much about unfortunately in terms of the grave situation that took place there. We want to make sure that they've got the tools to help rebuild the sites they're living in and to restart their lives as far as possible. What we are seeing sometimes --

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: I know --

JEFFERSON: -- like (Inaudible) complete workers, that we are needed beyond those first few months and that emergency. And emergency will continue. So, preparing for more work. and we are trying to make sure that we've got the funds and resources in place to support people.

VAUSE: I understand that your base of operation is here in Lviv. This is a city which has grown by hundreds of thousands of people. They're sort of a city within a city here. And you spent time with these people who have evacuated and left their homes, what have they've been through, what are they telling you?

JEFFERSON: Unfortunately, the stories are just tragic, and you know, we've been busy here, but also trying to work remotely in other parts of Ukraine. And what we are seeing as you say that's a city within a city. For some part of the days in Lviv, it seems incredibly normal like a European city with cafes, people walking around, and then you look harder, you see the sandbags, you see the monuments, you know, kind of covered in cladding to protect them.

And what we see as well, when the sirens go, when we also go down into the shelters, you see people kind of night after night going in and repeating the cycle of what has unfortunately become normal in this conflict and war. And what I think we find really hard to see and when we hear of three people that we are working with, is when they are trying to support their families leaving.

You get to somewhere like Lviv which has until now been relatively safe, and then there was the missile strike three days ago. So, people leaving at the train station a few hundred meters or yards away from where the strike happened, feeling like they are trying to seek safety, but not really. Nowhere in Ukraine is fully safe at the moment.

VAUSE: Yes, a lot of aid groups have spoken about the scope and scale and speed of this crisis. Twelve million either internally displaced. So now they're refugees in just a short period of two months. And that struggle continues to try and get people out of those areas in eastern Ukraine. How important is it to have those secured humanitarian quarters up and running, and what have been the difficulties for groups like yours and others in navigating that?

[03:10:04]

JEFFERSON: It's incredibly important to have these safe passages for people out of these areas and to make sure they have the choice and security and ability to move. What we are seeing is a number of days going past where we hear reports where these corridors have not been established, agree to, or supported. And that is incredibly concerning.

We know the situation is dire with food, water, other things running out. And you know, the people we have seen leave for the most part, have had the means and ability to do so, what we are at ShelterBox are concerned about are the needs of people who maybe are immobile, the elderly, people with children who are effectively trapped awaiting this.

So, all sides need to come together and provide predictable safe passage for people. So that agencies like ShelterBox can go and provide support.

VAUSE: Yes. It's hard enough working in a war zone when all sides agreed to a ceasefire when one doesn't, it makes it impossible. Alice, thank you. Alice Jefferson there with ShelterBox, we appreciate your time, we appreciate what you are doing. Thank you.

JEFFERSON: Thank you.

VAUSE: You can help as well. If you would like to help the people of Ukraine they are in need of shelter, food and water, please go to cnn.com/impact. There you will find a number of charities. And you can guarantee that whatever you give will go to the people who needed the most.

We'll take a short break, when we come back, Rosemary Church will have details on a contentious debate in France. Presidential candidates go head-to-head on a wide range of topics before Sunday's runoff. We are live in Paris with Rosemary Church in a moment.

[03:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: The U.S. Justice Department is appealing Monday's court ruling striking down the mask mandate for public transportation. Airlines and transit agencies moved quickly to make masks optional. But the White House said it would wait to hear from the Centers for Disease Control before taking further action.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has details.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Two days after a federal judge struck down the federal mask mandate for travelers, the CDC announcing that it is asking the Justice Department to appeal that ruling by a federal judge. Now the Justice Department just a day earlier, they had said that they would indeed move forward with an appeal if the CDC deemed it necessary. And that is now what is happening.

This is a statement from the CDC. They say, quote, "to protect CDC's public health authority beyond the ongoing assessment announced last week, CDC has asked DOJ to proceed with an appeal. It is CDC's continuing assessment that at this time an order requiring masking in the indoor transportation corridor remains necessary for the public health."

Now the CDC also says here that they are going to continue to monitor public health conditions as it relates to the necessity of this mask mandate going forward. But what's really interesting here is that the CDC is explaining its rationale on two fronts.

On the one hand, they're saying that, look, we believe the conditions right now in the country make a necessary for this mask mandate to still be standing for travelers to be required to wear masks on planes, for example, as well as trains and other modes of transportation.

But what they're also saying is that they're appealing this decision in order to preserve that legal authority that they had to institute this mask mandate in the first place. And the White House press secretary Jen Psaki, she made this point earlier on Wednesday as well. When she said that look, there are going to be highs and lows in this pandemic, and that there be some kind of new variant or more serious strain or an uptake in cases once again, that the CDC wants to retain that authority, that legal authority, to be able to reinstitute that mask mandate if necessary.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.

CHURCH: With just days to go until Sunday's runoff election, the French presidential candidates went head-to-head in their first and only TV debate. For nearly three hours Wednesday President Emmanuel Macron and his far-right challenger, Marine Le Pen sparred over a range of topics including Russia, France's commitment to the E.U. and the economy.

CNN's Jim Bittermann joins us now live from Paris with more on all of this. Good to see you, Jim.

So, which of the two presidential candidates came out on top in this face-to-face clash, and was anything significant said that might perhaps change the outcome of Sunday's runoff election?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's something that we were asked -- asked the pollsters about ahead of time about whether or not they believe there could be a game changing moment in this debate, if there would be something sufficient. I didn't see it. I don't think other people did either.

In fact, the way it looked from a snap poll hold by our colleagues at BFM TV, snap poll by a lab of 650 viewers who watched the debate, 59 percent believe that Macron was more convincing, compared to 39 percent for Marine Le Pen. And on other aspects as well, Mr. Macron seem to have the best plan according to the viewers, whereas, Marine Le Pen seems to be scary according to some viewers. And she also was rated as someone who is a little bit ambiguous on some of the issues.

[03:19:54] So, in the main, I think the major thrust is that -- I don't think battle lines changed and if that's the case, then it does look like Mr. Macron has the polling numbers, at least heading into Sunday's vote that will make him victorious. But we'll have to see. There are always surprises in French politics.

One of the better exchanges, the more interesting exchanges took place on pocketbook issues. Marine Le Pen scored -- may have scored some points saying that Macron had ignored pocketbook issues. Here's the way he responded to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): I am proud that all together we have made it possible to create 1.2 million pay slips, because I was looking at your program, your 22 measures and there's not even the word unemployment in it, which is striking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: So, it was a lively debate, Rosemary, but there is no evidence of any got you moments in the debate. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Right. We'll see what happens on Sunday. Jim Bittermann joining us live from Paris, many thanks as always. And do join us Sunday at 8 p.m., Paris time, 2 p.m. Eastern here in the U.S. for a special live coverage of the French election right here on CNN.

A Russian billionaire who founded one of their country's biggest digital banks is lashing out at what he calls the insane war in Ukraine after he was slapped with international sanctions. A live report from London just ahead.

[03:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm john Vause, live in Lviv, Ukraine. It's just gone 25 minutes past the hour.

Negotiations are ongoing over trying to get safe passage out of the besieged city of Mariupol for around 120,000 civilians who still remain trapped in that city. It's been under siege since March 1st. Now there was an evacuation on Wednesday. Four buses, we're told, by the Ukrainians were able to take evacuees out of that city. There were women, children, and the elderly.

There is now attempts to make sure that the evacuations continue today, but the city remains under constant bombardment by Russian forces. That's according to Ukrainian fighters who are still there.

The -- one of the reasons why only four buses managed to get out on Wednesday is according to the Ukrainian deputy prime minister, the Russians failed to abide by a ceasefire agreement. There's also about 1,000 civilians and an unknown number of Ukrainian soldiers hold up in a sprawling steel and iron factory. Basic supplies like food and water are running low.

There are, according to the Ukrainian commander there, at least 500 wounded soldiers who are yet to receive any kind of medical attention. Ukraine's president says the fighters in that city just simply do not have the weapons they need to defend Mariupol.

Well, tensions boiled over on Wednesday as finance minister from the world's 20 largest economies met in Washington. The Canadian minister shared a photo of western officials who walked out of a session when the Russian delegates started to speak.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen took part in the boycott. She said there could be no business as usual for Russia in the global economy. This comes as one of the sanctioned Russian oligarch -- oligarch speaking out against the war. He says it's insane. He said also (Inaudible) about the army, the Russian army.

Oleg Tinkov is the billionaire founder of a big Russian digital bank and he says the west need to offer Vladimir Putin a way out of this mess.

Well, CNN's Clare Sebastian following this for us in London. And interesting words from the oligarch there. Basically, saying that the Russian generals work out from there, hang out in the morning and realize that their army was, you know, wasn't quite up to speck.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're not going to repeat it, it was choice words that he used. But he went on, John, to say that, you know, how could the army be good when everything in the country is mired in nepotism sycophant and civility. These are strong words. And it is significant to criticize the army because, of course, this was an army with a very strong reputation before this war broke out and has somewhat lost some of that strong reputation because of the intense resistance put up by the Ukrainian forces.

The other notable thing about Oleg Tinkov's statement -- and he, by the way, has criticize the war before. This wasn't new from him. This were the strongest words we've heard, was that he named Vladimir Putin. This is something you don't often see even when those who got rich under Putin's speak out against this war.

He said, in English at the end of the statement, dear collective west, please give Mr. Putin a clear access to save his face and stop this massacre. So, naming him is significant, but John, whether this moves the needle is a major question.

It's clear in Russia that very few people have much sway over Vladimir Putin. Mikhail Khodorkovsky recently on CNN described Russia as a dictatorship not an oligarchy. So, look, this shows his isolation along with the G20 on the world stage, it shows that he's losing support among people who sort of made their name during his tenure as president, but it's not likely to serve as a deterrent or stop him from doing what he's doing in Ukraine.

VAUSE: Yes. Those who criticize Vladimir Putin tend to just disappear. Clare Sebastian in London, thank you. That's it for me live from Ukraine. I want to turn back to Rosemary

Church. Rosemary Church in Atlanta. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Thank you so much. John, you and your team have done an incredible job, thank you so much, my friend. Do take care. I appreciate it.

VAUSE: I appreciate that. Thank you.

[03:30:00]

CHURCH: Well, humbled and apologetic and refusing. The British prime minister projects optimism in the face of the partygate fallout while embarking on a state visit. We'll have that in just a moment.

[03:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: In the last few, hours the British prime minister arrived in western India. The big focus of the two-day talks, jobs and Ukraine, but back home, many lawmakers and voters are not ready to forgive and forget the partygate scandal.

In the coming hours, there could be a vote on whether to investigate claims that Boris Johnson misled parliament about illegal lockdown parties at government buildings. The prime minister apologized twice in two days for violating COVID rules. But he has rejected calls to resign and stopped short of admitting he broke the law. He is now vowing to quote, "get on with the job."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We are going to get on with delivering for the British people and making sure -- making sure that we power out of the problems that COVID has left us. And more people in work than there were before the pandemic, Mr. Speaker. Fixing our energy problems and leading the world and standing up to the aggression of Vladimir Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So, let us bring in CNN's Nada Bashir who is tracking all of this from London, she joins us now live. Good morning, Nada.

So, Boris Johnson won't be able to leave his troubles behind on his overseas trip, his partygate scandal continuing in his absence with an upcoming vote on whether to investigate claims he misled parliament. What is the latest on all of this?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, Rosemary, there has been a lot of focus on this upcoming vote. The Labour Party putting forward a motion to debate today in the House of Commons, whether a parliamentary inquiry should be launched into whether he knowingly misled parliament. But just overnight, there has been some movement. Now the conservative

party now putting forward an amendment. That would be discussed today in the House of Commons. They want to see this vote postponed until the metropolitan police investigation into the partygate scandal is complete.

And also, until the cabinet office investigation into these alleged parties at Downing Street and other offices is completed. So that is interesting. We do understand that the conservative party members of parliament have been instructed to vote in favor of that amendment. So, we do expect that to go through.

Clearly, the conservative party are trying to delay this vote into parliamentary inquiry, into the prime minister's actions. So that is interesting, considering the fact that back in January, when we saw the initial findings of that cabinet office report, which highlighted serious failings by government officials, by staff members at Downing Street, that had a significant impact on public opinion, both on Boris Johnson and the conservative party overall.

So, it is interesting that they hope to wait a few weeks perhaps for that to be discussed. And we do know that local elections are coming up, so the timing is interesting, but there has been continued calls for the prime minister to also resign. He has brushed those off, he says he won't resign, that he wants to and intends to lead the party into the next general election.

That's what he told reporters on his way to India and clearly. And clearly, the prime minister wants to move forward, that is why he is going ahead with his trip to India, as opposed to focusing on those domestic challenges here back home in the U.K. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right, Nada Bashir, joining us live from London, many thanks.

We are following a developing story out of Jerusalem where further clashes between Palestinians and Israeli security forces have been reported around the entrance of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Videos show Israeli police on the compound outside the mosque as Palestinians launched fireworks towards them.

And other videos show police firing stun grenades. The area has been the sight of tensions over the last week as periodic clashes have broken out.

Russian tennis players will be banned from competing at Wimbledon this year because of their country's invasion of Ukraine. Belarusian players also can't take part. Organizers for the Grand Slam event site Russia's, quote, "unjustified and unprecedented military aggression." The Kremlin calls the decision unacceptable.

This will affect a number of high -ranked players, both men and women including world number two and reigning U.S. Open champion Daniil Medvedev. Russia is already flying a flag of victory over parts of Ukraine, but it's the Soviet victory flag from World War II which has been seen in occupied areas. And this comes ahead of May 9th, which is Russia's World War II

victory day. And a date at which this year Putin is hoping to declare some kind of victory from his so far bungled war in Ukraine. A statue of former Soviet leader Lenin has also been installed outside of a council building in the occupied town of Henichesk.

[03:40:02]

Well for our international viewers, Inside Africa is coming up next. For everyone here in the United States, I will be back with more news in just a moment.

[03:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(INSIDE AFRICA)

[04:00:00]