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Satellite Images of Mass Graves Outside Mariupol; Heavy Fighting in Donetsk and Luhansk; U.S. Spends $3.4 billion on Ukraine; Russians Gave Orders to Kill POWs; Daleep Singh is Interviewed about Funding for Ukraine. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:23]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Officials describe a dire situation in Mariupol as the Russian military aims to establish full control over southern Ukraine, and perhaps even into disputed territory in neighboring Moldova.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

Happening right now, food, water and ammunition growing more scarce by the hour as hundreds remain barricaded inside Mariupol's Azovstal steel plant.

On the outside, growing evidence of what some are calling genocide. New, disturbing satellite images appear to show rows upon rows of mass graves. Mass graves. The mayor there saying they show evidence of war crimes as he pleads for a full evacuation of his city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VADYM BOICHENKO, MAYOR OF MARIUPOL, UKRAINE (through translator): We need one clear day of cease-fire to evacuate those people. According to our estimates, we have around 20,000 dead, civilian deaths in Mariupol. I feel as if my heart's been torn out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And in the east, heavy fighting reported overnight in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Efforts to evacuate those areas interrupted by Russian shelling.

This morning, the U.N. says officers have documented unlawful killings in Bucha, including summary execution of some civilians. And in the Kyiv region, local investigators say more than 1,000

civilians have been killed, most of them by machine guns or sniper rifles.

We are covering every angle of this gruesome war from across Ukraine.

Let's begin this morning with CNN correspondent Matt Rivers. He is reporting from a train station in Lviv, in western Ukraine, where some evacuees out of Mariupol have already arrived.

Matt, these new satellite images, very difficult to stomach, but they appear to confirm Ukrainian official reports of mass graves outside of Mariupol. Walk us through what we're seeing in these satellite images.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and, Bianna, unfortunately, you know, it's not a surprise in some ways. If you remember what we have seen in the northern part of Ukraine, in places that Russian troops have since withdrawn from, the mass graves that we found in Bucha, for example. And so this is, in some ways, the Russian MO here in Ukraine.

And these satellite images really is one of the first glimpses that we got into these kind of mass graves in the Mariupol area. And you could argue what's been going on in Mariupol is worse than anything we've seen around other parts of Ukraine because Russia has been there for just as long and they are still there. And if you take into account the fact that the Mariupol mayor says some 20,000 or so civilians -- and that's an inexact figure -- but some 20,000 people have died as a result, then it's not going to be a surprise that these graves, unfortunately, are just the tip of a human rights iceberg. A human rights atrocity iceberg, if you will, in and around Mariupol.

As for evacuations, unfortunately, the kind of scenes that you would hope to see here in Lviv, at the train station, you would hope to see lots of people being evacuated successfully from Mariupol is -- as is so desperately needed and yet we've seen two trains arrive here this morning and maybe a handful of people that we've spoken to have come from Mariupol. The vast majority of people arriving from other parts of Ukraine.

And it just speaks to the fact that the humanitarian corridors have been unsuccessful. The Ukrainians say that is because Russian forces have shelled and not respected cease-fires, putting evacuees at even more risk.

And so we're kind of seeing the results of that here in Lviv. This would be a place eventually where Mariupol would eventually -- people from Mariupol would come to.

And we're getting a little bit of insight into what's going on inside the Azovstal steel plant, the heart of the Ukrainian resistance in Mariupol.

Here's a little bit of sound from an officer in the Azov battalion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LLIYA SAMOYLENKO, OFFICER, AZOV BATTALION: Most heart-breaking thing in this, that we have limited supplies here and we're trying to share everything with civilians.

But Russia claims that we use a -- we use them as a human shield. It's (EXPLETIVE DELETED). It's complete (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because, you know, real military doesn't do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS: And so there are civilians alongside fighters inside that steel plant, all of whom need to be evacuated. And, Bianna, it's just not happening.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, you heard him say, a real military doesn't do this, echoing what President Biden said, that a real world leader would allow civilians to leave. But, obviously, we see how Vladimir Putin values civilian life, given what we're seeing unfold in these cities.

Matt Rivers, thank you.

Well, overnight, heavy fighting reported in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of eastern Ukraine.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is in Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine.

[09:05:05]

And, Ben, efforts to evacuate the Ukrainian town of Rubizhne this morning were once again interrupted by Russian shelling. Sirens are sounding there behind you. Talk about what you're seeing.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ah, yes, the siren went off about three minutes ago. And we are hearing what sounds like distant thuds on the outskirts of Kramatorsk.

As far as Rubizhne goes, yes, we were there yesterday. And the amount of shelling is quite intense. We were able to get to a advantage point overlooking the city, the town. It's important to keep in mind, the Russians control the northern part. The Ukrainians are still in control of the south.

What we saw was actually both sides of the city getting heavily pounded. And, yes, there are civilians caught inside and it was a bit hair raising for us to go in, so I can imagine civilians leaving in soft vehicles under that shelling is risky to say the least.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And you spoke with residents there in Rubizhne. What do they tell you? What are they feeling? How scared are they now?

WEDEMAN: Yes, we were able to get into the southern part of the city of the town to an old theater that's been hit multiple times. But they're down in the basement. And these people, I have to say, are seriously traumatized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEDEMAN (voice over): I want to go home, she says. I've suffered too much. I've seen the fire and the smoke. I've seen it all. I'm scared.

Nina's (ph) plea, simple. Help us. Help us.

Her daughter, Ludmilla (ph), struggles to comfort her.

We're praying to God to stop it, she says, to hear us.

Ina (ph), says, I have nowhere to go. I have no friends, no relatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEDEMAN: And certainly, you know, some people might say they're suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. But, Bianna, there's nothing post about it. They're still there. They are probably the -- attempted evacuation was for these people. But if they didn't get out, they are still there in that dark, dank, dirty basement where they have no light, no electricity, no running water, and they're running low on food.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: The trauma never ends. You never get used to seeing people weeping like that, whether it's small children or the elderly.

Ben Wedeman, it was disturbing there as we're speaking to hear those sirens behind you for just these two minutes. I can imagine what residents are experiencing living in it. Thank you for your reporting.

Well, as Russia intensifies its assault on Ukraine, attempting to seize new territory in eastern and southern regions now, President Biden announcing that the U.S. will send an additional $800 million in military assistance to the country.

Let's bring in CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

So, Barbara, this is the second security package sent to Ukraine this month with the price tag equally around $800 million. A lot more ammunition and artillery in this one.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: There is, indeed. The total price tag really since the invasion began, $3.4 billion in U.S. military assistance. U.S. weapons going to Ukraine.

But President Biden already acknowledging it won't be enough, and that he will be going back to Congress. Even when you look at that long list, he will go back to Congress and seek authorization for additional funds to send additional weapons.

In addition to that, of course, the U.S. is talking really around the clock with allies in the region and even around the world to see what they have that they can contribute to this effort. Weapons they may have that may be of Russian origin, Soviet origin, that the Ukrainians would be familiar with, would be able to use readily.

The U.S. effort goes on, but earlier today the Pentagon press secretary, one more time, spelled out what the limits are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We get them into Ukrainian hands, places outside the country, and then Ukrainians bring them into the country and they distribute them, they put them in usually some sort of temporary storage while they again distribute them to their troops and get them into the battlefield where and when they see fit. I mean it's their property and we -- we don't want to be in a position where we're dictating to them or trying to guide them in terms of how and when and how fast they get, you know, on to the field of battle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: It is a challenge. Look, they're going to have to -- the Ukrainians have to ship this stuff all the way from where they pick it up on their western border, next to Poland, across the country, to the fighting in the east.

[09:10:08]

The latest package, $800 million, as you say, focused very heavily on artillery. That is for that long distance, long range fight in eastern Ukraine.

A new round of drones that were not being told very much about, presumably lethal with an explosive charge, so they're essentially one way suicide drones. All of this aimed at giving the Ukrainians some mobility on the battlefield, able to shoot at long distances and stay out of the range of Russians, essentially a shoot and scoot maneuver.

It's going to take several days to get this latest package in, but the Pentagon thinks they will be able to do it in the next few days.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, those drones have been very effective for the Ukrainians throughout this war.

Barbara Starr, thank you.

Well, a purported new intercepted communications appears to reveal Russian soldiers referring to an alleged order to kill Ukrainian prisoners of war in the eastern region of Luhansk. Ukraine's military intelligence released the recording.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERSON 1 (through translator): What can I tell you, damn it, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), (INAUDIBLE) -- you keep the most senior among them and let the rest go forever. PERSON 2 (through translator): Let them go forever, damn it, so that

no one will ever see them again, including relatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Now, CNN has not been able to independently confirm the authenticity of that recording.

Joining me now to discuss this and much more is retired Army General Wesley Clark, former supreme allied commander of NATO.

General Clark, always great to see you.

First, let me get you to respond to those intercepted recordings there. Is that more evidence of war crimes to you?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It certainly is. I mean murdering captured soldiers is a war crime. It's wrong. And, you know, this is prima facie evidence of what we've seen confirmed elsewhere about bodies and other things. So, yes, this is very serious.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, you're talking about those mass graves that we have now seen satellite images of around Mariupol.

CLARK: Right.

GOLODRYGA: How can the international community -- should the international community be responding to this now?

CLARK: Well, of course, we need to bring it to the public's attention. We also need to undertake the judicial measures to capture the evidence -- the chain of evidence and make it something that can be stand -- that can stand up in court and get convictions if that's possible.

But, really, the only way we're going to stop this is by continuing to supply Ukraine with the armaments it needs.

Mr. Putin looks at the facts on the ground on the battlefield. This is really what he's looking at right now. He wants a victory. He doesn't care how he gets it. And this is why I think the Biden administration's absolutely correct in pushing in these howitzers. The ammunition, the vehicles to tow them and do as much as it can right now, on an urgent basis, to give Ukraine the capacity to resist, to strike back, and hopefully enough to be able to eject Russia from Donbas.

GOLODRYGA: You say eject Russia from Donbas. This is coming in the same day that we're now hearing from a Russian general saying that their goal is to not only gain hold of all of Donbas, but also southern part of Ukraine as well. Obviously, we've seen what's transpired there in Mariupol. Could perhaps they be going after Odessa and Mykolaiv next?

And -- and he opened the window to going into Transnistria, in neighboring Moldova. That's that disputed region within the country there where there are Russian troops currently based right now.

This expanse that war significantly, especially if you're getting into the ports there in the southern part of the country. What do you make of this?

CLARK: Well, I make that it's a pretty accurate representation of what Russia says is its intermediate goals right now.

Now, do they want all of Ukraine eventually? Yes, they probably do. But what they want to do is first be able to declare a victory in the short term, on the 9th of May, which is the end of World War II. And this is a big symbolic day for Vladimir Putin. So they're looking for a near term win.

And then they'd like to get the whole coastline, including Mariupol and Odessa, seal Ukraine, what's left of it, off from access to the Black Sea, a major economic lifeline. And then they've got the trading material they need to get the rest of Ukraine, if it requires negotiations.

But, remember, Putin's aims are not limited to Ukraine. It just looks that way right now because he's had so much trouble dealing with Ukraine. If he had his way in the first place, it would have fallen in three or four days and then we'd be talking about the Baltic states, Moldova, and maybe Slovakia or Poland being under threat.

So, this is all part of a long-term plan of Mr. Putin, and he's just moving it step by step. From his perspective, he's probably thinking, I'm winning, but it's taking a little longer, but Stalin did it this way, I'll do it this way.

[09:15:04]

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it was interesting to hear Admiral Kirby this morning say that as far as the U.S. assesses the situation, Russia hasn't made much inroads over the past few days, since it started this next phase of its war, despite having that new general, Dvornikov, overseeing the operation there in Ukraine.

General Wesley Clark, always great to have you on. Thank you.

CLARK: Thank you very much, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still to come, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says that it's a realistic possibility Putin may win the war in Ukraine. How far is the U.S. now willing to go to prevent that? We'll ask the deputy national security adviser up next.

Plus, Congressman Kevin McCarthy denies ever thinking about asking then President Trump to resign after the Capitol attack, even though newly obtained audio shows that that's not true. We'll play it for you straight ahead.

And new developments in the 15-year-old case of missing British toddler Madeleine McCann. Prosecutors now saying they have identified a suspect. We'll have a live report straight ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:24]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Next week, President Biden will ask Congress for more funding to support Ukraine in its war against Russia, requesting a second supplemental funding package in order to keep weapons flowing to Ukrainians. This comes on the heels of a new $800 million military weapons package for Ukraine following $800 million last week. This one, the heavy focus on heavy artillery and drones along with tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Joining me now to discuss, Daleep Singh. He's the deputy national security adviser for international economics.

Good to have you on this morning.

DALEEP SINGH, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: Good to see you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: This morning, the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, said, in his words, that it is a realistic possibility that Putin wins this war.

Do you agree? Is that the U.S. assessment?

SINGH: No. The assessment from where we stand is that, as we continue to intensify these costs, through economic sanctions, on the battlefield, and strategically, ultimately Putin will see that this is not the end game he bargained for. Thousands of body bags are coming home. If his economy is contracting by double digits, if inflation is up to 20 percent, if the shelves are empty, if people can't travel, this country is in default, if Russia is a pariah state, that's not a win for Putin.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though. All those steps you measure are certainly imposing costs, the economic sanctions, the weapons coming in, making it a more difficult fight for the Russians, discussions of war crimes investigations, but none of that has stopped the war. It hasn't stopped the continuing war crimes or at least evidence of war crimes continuing, for instance, in a city like Mariupol. If that is the reality as we're witnessing it here, why are those responses sufficient?

SINGH: Well, we're running out of adjectives for the sickening, horrifying, barbaric visuals that we're getting out of Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SINGH: But, look, we have to stay the course, Jim. We have to keep intensifying the pressure and we've got to stay unified. That's been our strategy from the start. And it's working in the sense that Putin is being dealt a very weak, strategic hand. The west is more unified than it's ever been in decades. And we think Ukraine is going to emerge as a sovereign nation. Those are our goals. SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. In fact, this was spoken very publicly

about this morning by the Russian defense ministry saying that their goal is now to take really the entire coastline of Ukraine. It already controls much of it, but continuing that along, taking Odessa, right up to and then taking part of Moldova, what's known as the Transnistria area there.

What is the willing -- what is the U.S., what are its NATO allies willing to do to stop Russia from succeeding in that plan?

SINGH: Well, you saw the list of -- you've seen the list of equipment you provided in this latest tranche of military assistance, Jim. It included artillery, ammunitions, coastal defenses, drones, howitzers, helicopters. These are all designed to deal with the battlefront as it's evolving, as you say, towards the -- obviously the east but also the south. And so we're trying to configure our support for Ukraine on the battlefield to what's unfolding on the ground. And that's -- that's the strategy from a military perspective.

And then everything else I mentioned, in terms of the economics and the strategic costs we're impose, those continue to intensify.

SCIUTTO: I guess the part that I have difficulty with, and it's my second trip back here, every day we have eyewitness accounts, both from reporters on the ground, but Ukrainian officials, other investigators, of continued war crimes in this country. Certainly evidence of them. Civilians slaughtered. Execution style murders in a town such as Bucha. Russians discussing orders to kill civilians.

I know that all those steps are raising the costs for Russia, but they're not stopping that behavior, that aggressive activity by Russia. So, given that reality, why is the U.S. NATO response sufficient in your view, in the president's view?

SINGH: Well, we're going to -- we're going to have time to hold these people to account for what they've done, Jim. But our measures are going to take time to work. We're not going to commit to a military -- a direct military confrontation with Russia. The president has been clear about that. But everything short of a direct military confrontation with Russia we will do. And we'll do it with our allies an we'll intensify it for as long as it takes.

None of us can guarantee when that's going to have the effect that we want, we so desperately want. But what's within our control is to intensify and to -- and to back up that intensification with any resources that we can bring to bear.

SCIUTTO: One thing that is within your control, certainly the control of our allies, is purchases of Russian gas and oil.

[09:25:07]

It's been noted many times that a billion some odd dollars a day goes to the Russian war machine because Europe, despite its promises of something down the line, is still sending money into Russia's coffers. They're talking about reducing gas imports by two-thirds by the end of the year. That's a long time away. They're talking about stopping oil imports. Hasn't happened yet. Does that need to happen today?

SINGH: Yes, that conversation needs to happen. It is happening. You've heard the German chancellor say they're prepared -- Germany is prepared to cut off all Russian oil by the end of this year. You've heard others in the EU say something similar. It's important that they do this as soon as they can, and to do it in a way that's smart, by which I mean the measures they take to restrict Russian energy going into Europe, they need to be designed to hit Putin's revenues so that it can't fund his war machine. And they have to be designed in a way that doesn't impose most of the costs on Europe, and on the rest of the world.

So that's the conversation that's taking place right now. But I have confidence that Europe is getting the message and they're determined to close off this last source of export revenue that Putin has.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, to date, since the start of the invasion, we're coming up on two months now, the leaders of 12 countries, including some of America's closest allies, have visited Kyiv, the capital, met with the Ukrainian president. No senior U.S. official has done that yet, whether it be the president or the vice president or the secretary of state. And many of those countries we're seeing on the screen there now have returned their diplomats to Ukraine as well, which the U.S. has not done.

Why has that not happened yet and when will it happen?

SINGH: Yes, Jim, I'm not going to comment on that. You can imagine the preparations that are involved with those types of visits need to be kept close hold for security reasons. And I'll defer to others in terms of the timing and the modalities.

SCIUTTO: But why wouldn't the U.S. lead on that rather than follow?

SINGH: The important thing, Jim, is we're sending a message to Ukraine, in every way possible, that we will provide the resources, all the resources that we can, we'll impose as many costs as we can on Russia, we'll unify the world in the way that we have. That's what matters. That's really what determines the outcome on the battlefield and in terms of the strategic contest between Ukraine and Russia. And so we're focused on the substance of this conflict and, of course, when the time allows, and when circumstances allow, I'm sure our officials will try to make it over there as well.

SCIUTTO: Daleep Singh, deputy national security adviser to the president, we appreciate you joining the program this morning.

SINGH: Thanks, Jim.

GOLODRYGA: And coming up, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is in court today for a hearing to challenge her candidacy for re-election. She just arrived to a round of applause. It will begin in a few moments. And we're live at the courthouse when it does.

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