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New Audio Reveals Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Told Trump He Bore Responsibility for Jan. 6 in the Wake of Capitol Attack; U.N. Human Rights Office Documents 50 Unlawful Killings in Bucha; Philadelphia Ends Mask Mandate Just Days After Reinstating It. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 22, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:02]

ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: But there is no ambiguity in what Kevin McCarthy told the hundreds members of the House Republican Conference. He said that he confronted President Trump in private, told him that he bore responsibility and President Trump agreed with him. And that, by the way, is something that scores and scores of House Republicans heard Kevin McCarthy say.

So, every time you hear one of those lawmakers bobbing and weaving about whether President Trump has any responsibility, any culpability for the violent attack on the seat of American government, they have previously heard Kevin McCarthy say that Donald Trump acknowledges that.

JONATHAN MARTIN, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: And I could just add real fast, what this tape illustrates and what so much more in the book, This Will Not Pass, which, by the way, is out May 3rd. captures, Bianna, is the gulf between the leadership wing of the Republican Party and Congress and the rank and file in the party.

The leadership wing of the Republican Party is desperate to get rid of President Trump. They don't want him to run again in 2024. They were hoping January 6th, frankly, would finish him off politically. That's why there was talk about getting him to resign, which we aired yesterday, talk about 25th Amendment. They want to get rid of this figure that their party loves. And in private, they're very candid about, what can we do, how can we solve this problem? The bulk of the country does not like him but the party does.

And you hear this in real-time after January 6th and they're doing anything they can to try to rid themselves of President Trump. But here we are on April 2022, he is still the dominant figure in the GOP and he could be the nominee again in '24 and these tapes capture what his lieutenants on Capitol Hill really think about him. BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN NEWSROOM: So, Jonathan, let's just display this all out for viewers at home. Because as you mentioned, you released another audio clip last night where you heard Kevin McCarthy and Liz Cheney, as you said, discussing possibly invoking the 25th Amendment, and McCarthy saying he was planning to speak with President Trump about him stepping down, even though he said that the possibility of that would likely be slim.

Now we have this new audio where he says that not only does he believe the president was culpable but the president himself admitted it but, wait, viewers at home, there is a third piece of audio that you are releasing right now. Let's play it and we'll talk about it right after.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) (voice over): All right. I know this is not fun. I know this is not great. I know this is very tough. But what I want to do, especially through here is, I don't want to rush things. I want everybody to have all the information needed.

I've had it with this guy. What he did is unacceptable. Nobody can defend that and nobody should defend it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Okay. So, Alex, let's unpack that, because I believe we have heard people say, Lindsey Graham, I remember the night of January 6th, said, I had it, I am done, I'm off this train. How significant is it to hear those words from Kevin McCarthy though?

BURNS: Well, I think it's significant for a number of reasons, Bianna. One is what Jonathan just alluded to, the enormous gulf between what Republicans will say about Trump in public and to his face and what they think of him and what they say about him in private, worrying what they think is private.

That comment from Kevin McCarthy is also significant because it's one of the things that he denied saying yesterday, that we reported in print that he said, I've had it with this guy. He said that that recording was totally false. Your viewers just heard Kevin McCarthy say it in his own voice.

So, again, that speaks to Kevin McCarthy's general credibility on this subject and draw your own conclusions about other subjects.

I think the two pieces of audio that you have just unveiled on this network really also speak to the complicated internal politics of the Republican Party and why Kevin McCarthy ultimately capitulates to Donald Trump. That piece of audio you just played from January 10th where it says, I've had it with this guy, is addressing a very small number of Republican congressional leaders and he is much blunter, much harsher in talking about Donald Trump than the first piece of audio he played from January 11th, the very next day, when he's addressing the whole Republican Conference, and he is speaking disapprovingly of Donald Trump. But you don't hear the same tone of dismissiveness and hostility. He certainly doesn't say, I've had it with this guy, when he's speaking to the whole class.

MARTIN: And, Bianna, if I could, this tape and more tapes to come, is important because for seven years now, nearly seven years now, there's been a recurring theme. There's been a sort of constant conversation in Washington, which is, if you only heard what the Republicans say in private about President Trump, it was almost kind of a shorthand of -- well, privately, they acknowledge he's wildly unfit for the job and have little regard for him.

[10:35:02]

What we have done in this book, which you can buy online right now and it comes to you on May 3rd, is reveal what they actually do say in private about President Trump. We're not hinting about it, we're not alluding to it or not referring sort of obliquely, we're talking directly, reporting directly what they are saying about President Trump, how they actually feel about the leader of their party, the contempt they had for him, and still have for him to this day.

GOLODRYGA: Listen, both of you, a case study in, A, just making sure that you don't go out there and publicly say something that can be proven false within just a matter of hours because of tapes and also a case study in getting people to buy a book knowing that there's more audio, more revelations to be heard.

MARTIN: Stay tuned.

GOLODRYGA: Alex burns -- stay tuned. Alex Burns, Jonathan Martin, thank you for bringing us this news. We appreciate it.

BURNS: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And coming up, more on the war in Ukraine, a family's decision to leave Bucha when they did, likely saving their lives. Next, we'll hear from them now, that they've made it safely to Spain, away from the horrors that happened in their own hometown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXEI NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remarkably, Vladimir Putin faces a legitimate opponent. Alexei Navalny.

NAVALNY: I don't want Putin being president.

If I want to be a leader of a country, I have to organize people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kremlin hates Navalny so much that they refuse to say his name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Passengers heard Navalny cry out in agony. NAVALNY: Come on, poisoned? Seriously?

We are creating the coalition to fight this regime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are killed, what message do you leave behind to the Russian people?

NAVALNY: It's very simple. Never give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Navalny, Sunday at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: The U.N. Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine says it has now documented and verified at least 5,264 civilian deaths since the beginning of the Russian invasion, including, it says, the unlawful killing including by summary execution of some 50 civilians in the town of Bucha.

In the early weeks of this war, we met a family from Bucha, Yana Tiahla and her three children, in an evacuation center in Lviv. You can see them there. At the time, we knew that Bucha was a scene of violence but not the scene of alleged war crimes, as we know now.

We kept in touch with them and we managed to catch up with them after they made their way safely to Spain, including with their husband who was able to leave the country because he has three children, an exception from that rule that war-aged men have to stay here.

Here's what we learned when we spoke to them. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Yana, first, it's so good to see you and your kids and you're safe and their smiles. I'm so happy you're in a safe place. How is everybody doing?

YANA TIAHLA, ESCAPED BUCHA, UKRAINE: It's much better than it was before.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. I'm sure. Well, everybody looks -- they look happy. That's the most important. When we last met, your husband and mother were left behind in Bucha. They have been able to join you?

TIAHLA: Yes, we are together. We got as far as Lviv together, and then I went -- me and the children went to Poland and we were waiting there for my husband and mom. He was allowed to leave because we have three children. And right now in Ukraine, families with three children and more, the husbands can leave.

SCIUTTO: Well, I'm so happy for you, that you can all be together. Look at the smiles, say it all. They really do.

When we spoke, we knew that the fighting was bad in Bucha, but we didn't know how bad. We didn't know about all the crimes, it seems, that Russian forces have committed there. Have you been in touch with family and friends who were left behind?

TIAHLA: Yes. We left in time and a lot of our friends managed to leave in time, but we do know people who stayed there for a long time yet and managed to leave literally very recently. So, they have been telling us about all the horrors that I can now see in the internet on the photos and videos. But we left on the ninth day of the war, so we definitely left in time.

SCIUTTO: It must be so heartbreaking for you, frightening for you to hear all those stories, to see all those pictures.

TIAHLA: Yes, indeed. And we know people who died there. We have personal connections there. And so, for example, her Miroslava's (ph) teacher died, and also Mischa's (ph) kindergarten teacher has not been found yet.

[10:45:11]

We don't know exactly how they died, but we know that they died. And so we have a personal story as well because we know, like Mischa's (ph) kindergarten teacher, we don't know, they can't find her.

Yes, and it is horrifying to see because we can see photos on the internet of places we know, a lake with benches, a park where we used to take walks, and now there's a mass grave there. It's really horrible to see.

SCIUTTO: How do you explain all of that to your children?

TIAHLA: Yes. My eldest child is 11, and she understands everything. She has access to information. She has a phone. She can see the internet. So, she was inside this war and she knows war is war. With the youngest, I mean, they realize there's a war on, and they understand what's good and what's bad, but we haven't gone into the horrific details with them. We've managed to keep them safe from it so far.

We told our eldest daughter about her teacher. It took us a day to gather our strength to tell her. We didn't know. It was quite difficult. With the youngest, we haven't told him yet about his kindergarten teacher. He's too little. We're not going to tell him yet.

SCIUTTO: I get it. Do you have hope that you'll be able to go home again?

TIAHLA: Yes, we get asked this question a lot. Right now, we can't go back to Bucha because it's a completely destroyed city. There's a problem with everything there. There's no water, no power, no gas, and also there's a lot of rubble. They're still finding dead bodies. They're still digging people's bodies out of the rubble. And also it's totally booby-trapped city. I get pictures that I get sent to myself personally and there are mines, there were booby traps found in the washing machine, in cupboards, and it will take more than a month for us to be able to go back there with children. So, right now, we are trying to learn the language, we are trying to find a job, and we are trying to keep our children safe and to get them the basic necessities, food and meet basic needs. But, yes, we want to go back to Bucha eventually because that's where our life is, that's where we lived. Right now, here, we just have two backpacks.

SCIUTTO: I remember those two backpacks. I do. And your socks, right?

TIAHLA: Yes, we have a bit more than socks now because we've got a lot of help in Spain.

SCIUTTO: It's so good to see you. I'm glad your family is safe. I really am. And it's nice to see you smiling. I just hope you're able to go home soon.

TIAHLA: We would like that very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: A little silver lining there. And, you know, Bianna, as you heard there, she mentioned how the local park they used to go to is now a grave for two friends of theirs. CNN has geolocated a photo of that park, and been able to geolocate two graves in that park with wooden crosses and then marked the names of those friends, Marina Met and Ivan Met (ph), a mother and her son. Imagine that, a park that you took your kids to is now a resting place for two of your friends who died, they died in the shelling there.

GOLODRYGA: I mean, it's just unimaginable, Jim. I mean, that's why it's so important to tell their stories and it's so important to hear that, yes, they have moved on, there have been people treating them well, welcoming them, helping them buy foods and necessities, but how do you talk to your kids about what happened in their hometown? Really important reporting, Jim, I'm glad you were able to reunite with them.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: In an abrupt reversal, Philadelphia is ending its indoor mask mandate just days after it went into effect. The city's Board of Health voted Thursday to rescind the mandate because hospitalizations are decreasing and the COVID-19 case count is leveling off. As opposed to a mandate, Philadelphia is now just strongly recommending masks in indoor public spaces.

But Los Angeles County is bringing back its mask mandate on public transportation starting today, citing a surge in COVID cases there.

And President Obama will mark Earth Day today by signing a new -- President Biden will sign Earth Day today by signing a new executive order aimed at trying to protect the nation's forests against the threat of wildfires and climate change. The move meant to safeguard old growth forests on federal lands. Now, it comes as the American west enters its summer fire season. A new report by the U.N. says that extreme wildfires across the globe will increase up to 14 percent by 2030.

[10:55:03]

And that is it for us today. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Have a great weekend.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]