Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Marjorie Taylor Greene Questioned in Hearing Over Challenge to Her Candidacy for Re-Election; Greene on Pelosi: By Not Securing Border, She Violated Oath of Office; Audio Reveals McCarthy Did Consider Asking Trump to Resign; CNN on Frontlines as Bombs Rain Down on Ukrainians; Barbara Ferrer, L.A. County Health Director, Discusses Reinstating Mask Mandate on Public Transportation. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 22, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:37]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Let's go to Atlanta now where Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is fighting to stay on the ballot. She testified today over a lawsuit that is aimed at disqualifying her for re-election.

Prosecutors argue that the Republicans involved in the lead-up to the January 6th insurrection helped facilitate violent resistance against the U.S. government.

And while under oath, Greene said she had no knowledge of any attempt to illegally interfere with the counting of electoral votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Question, if you were aware that somebody was going to unlawfully interfere with the constitutional process of counting electoral votes, you would be obliged to have them arrested or stopped, right?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I had no knowledge of any attempt. And so that is a question that I can't answer.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Well --

GREENE: I can't answer that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Marshall Cohen has been in the courtroom.

Marshall, I watched a bit of the cross-examination. And it was contentious at points. What else did she say?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: It has been contentious. She's been on the stand for two hours so far. This is unprecedented. She's the first lawmaker, a first member of Congress to be questioned under oath about January 6th. She said what -- some things but really the story has been what she

hasn't said. She has not been able to answer a lot of questions. I don't recall, I don't remember.

Questions about meetings before January 6th or even about posts that she put on social media where she did use some very violent rhetoric in the run-up to January 6th.

Something else that has been featured, a real feature of the last few hours has been conspiracy theories, still, about the 2020 election.

Take a look at what she said when she was asked about the winner of that election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Well, I'm not sure we got a clear answer on this. Did you believe it this time that the 2020 election had been stolen by the Democrats from Mr. Trump, right?

GREENE: I was asking people to come for a peaceful march, which is what everyone is entitled to do under their First Amendment. But I was not asking them to actively engage in violence or any type of action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Right, so she is flatly denying -- she said she never called on anyone to do anything violent. That is a key pillar of her defense.

But on the stand, she has said she still thinks there was tremendous fraud in 2020 and that Joe Biden did not actually win that election -- Victor?

BLACKWELL: And there was also this moment, Marshall, where she was asked about Speaker Pelosi and there was a bit of waffling in her response. Talk about that.

COHEN: Yes, you know, a big strategy here from the challenges that are mounting this, is to use her own words against her.

They have tweeted, Facebook posts, videos and live streams and all kinds of things. But there are -- they're asking her about that but asking her first, did you ever say this, did you ever say that?

And there was some very really vile stuff about Speaker Pelosi that she was asked about and she kind of waffled.

Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Do you think that Speaker Pelosi is a traitor to the country, right?

GREENE: You're -- I'm not answering that question. It is speculation.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: You have said that, haven't you, Mrs. Greene, that she's a traitor to the country?

GREENE: No, I haven't said that.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: OK.

Put up plaintiff's exhibit five, please.

GREENE: Oh, no, wait. Hold on now. I believe that by not upholding the -- securing the border that that violates her oath of office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Yes, Victor, so look, this is a very serious topic. This is about accountability for January 6th.

The challengers here have an uphill climb. They are still far away from actually removing her from the ballot.

But what is unfolding today is an important step. And there's probably a few more hours for Congresswoman Greene on the stand here in Atlanta.

BLACKWELL: Marshall Cohen, there in Atlanta, I'll get you get back into the courtroom. Thank you very much.

Let's bring in now CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman, Charlie Dent.

Congressman, good to see you.

[14:34:57]

Let's start here with what this means for Marjorie Taylor Greene. There has been really no price to pay for the people who encouraged the Big Lie, told the Big Lie.

Short of being disqualified, do you think this actually helps her with her district, with that part of the party?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Victor, well, great to be with you.

No, I don't think it helps her with anybody. As Marshall said, I think that people find the complaint against Taylor Greene do have an uphill climb because Taylor Greene hasn't been charged or convicted with anything related to January 6th.

But I think the people complaining, they want to trip her up, legally and politically. She may say something in the proceedings that they could find -- use for a perjury charge. And DOJ I'm sure is watching this.

And the politics of this is not good either for her. So I think she's got a problem here.

I don't think she's going to be removed from the ballot, because, as I said, she hasn't been charged, let alone convicted.

And by way, a lot of wild people run for office. The key is not to get them elected. So she wouldn't be the first wild person out there running for office. But they usually don't win.

BLACKWELL: Let's turn now to Leader McCarthy and this recording now revealed that he said that he did not suggest that he was going to ask former President Trump to resign. That recording has been released.

According to a source, he and former President Trump had a conversation last night by phone and that Trump is not upset, according to that source.

What is your take on this exchange and what it means for McCarthy?

DENT: Well, I think what is happened is that -- and I think Kevin McCarthy expressed in those recordings -- was what many congressional Republicans have been saying about Donald Trump for a very long time.

They felt that he was unfit. That he was ignorant. And that he was an embarrassment to the party. Many of them have resented him and, frankly, detest him and what he's done to the party. That is what they say privately.

And the challenge for Kevin McCarthy is that his private comments and public comments are not in sync.

And I've said many times that I think Kevin has a challenge on his hands if he wants to become speaker. He's trying to placate this wing of the party that is very Trumpian and that, frankly, that took him down in 2015 when he tried to become speaker.

Remember, he was not able to ascend because, at that time, it was the Freedom Caucus. And now it is more the Trump wing of the party that could potentially take him down if he tries to ascend.

But the more he does that, the more he creates challenges for those who are more pragmatic. And so he's trying to walk this fine line.

And clearly, based on his public and private comments, he's stumbled here. So I think this is a problem.

I don't know what the conversation was between the president -- the former president and McCarthy. But I think it is -- I think this is going to present a problem for him going forward.

BLACKWELL: According to reporting, there's more audio out there. And maybe the same dog that bit Liz Cheney could start barking at McCarthy as he makes a run in January -- if Republicans win control and he makes a run for speaker?

DENT: Well, yes, it is really interesting about this, too. Based on the conversation with Liz Cheney, it is pretty clear that both Kevin McCarthy and Liz Cheney were pretty much aligned in their thinking at the time about what Trump did.

And I think McCarthy said it. You know, he said, I had enough of this guy. And was talking about encouraging the president to resign. And this is where many Republicans were at that time.

And of course, Liz Cheney then, she said that quiet part out loud. And that is why they removed her from her position.

But it is clear, many people share Liz Cheney's view --

BLACKWELL: Yes --

(CROSSTALK)

DENT: -- even if they don't say it publicly or have the courage to say it.

BLACKWELL: Well, it appears now they both said the quiet part out loud. It is just that McCarthy lied about saying it.

Former Congressman Charlie Dent, thank you, sir.

[14:39:06]

All across eastern Ukraine, Russia's assault has ordinary civilians just fighting to find a place to hide. Next, we're going to take you to an underground bunker of sorts to meet some people who have been there hiding for weeks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Heavy fighting in Donetsk and in the Luhansk regions of Ukraine is keeping people who have been trapped there for weeks now from getting out.

CNN's Ben Wedeman traveled to the front lines to talk to people who are hiding in basements just to survive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Russian forces continue to try to seize control of the town of Rubizhne, which is about an hour and a half drive from -- to the east of here. But they are running into stiff resistance from the Ukrainian defenders.

We were able to get to a vantage point overlooking the town and saw as artillery fell on all parts of the city.

In the southern area, which is controlled by the Ukrainian forces, we found a small group of people trying to survive under fire.

[14:44:56]

WEDEMAN (voice-over): And it begins again.

(CROSSTALK) (EXPLOSIONS)

WEDEMAN: Hell rains down.

(CROSSTALK)

WEDEMAN: A dozen people are hiding in the basement of a bombed-out theater in the town of Rubizhne.

"Let it stop, oh Lord," he says.

Now there is incoming. A white flag hangs outside to no effect.

The theater above has been bombed and bombed again and again.

(EXPLOSION)

WEDEMAN: Yet, they stay.

(EXPLOSION)

WEDEMAN: Too poor, two old, too frightened to flee, Nina, 89 years old, has been here for five weeks.

"I want to go home," she says, "I've suffered too much. I've seen the fire and the smoke. I've seen it all. I'm scared."

Nina's plea, simple. "Help us, help us."

Her daughter, Ludmila (ph), struggles to comfort her.

"We're praying to God to stop it," she says, "to hear us."

Yna (ph) says "I have nowhere to go. I have no friends, no relatives."

(EXPLOSION)

WEDEMAN: With the shelling intensifying, volunteers are finding it hard to deliver food.

(EXPLOSIONS)

WEDEMAN: As Russian and Ukrainian forces fight for control of Rubizhne, there are people down there --

(EXPLOSION)

WEDEMAN: -- praying as hell rains down.

WEDEMAN (on camera): What we saw in that shelter are people who clearly have post-traumatic stress disorder. They've been there for weeks on end.

Most of the time -- and we brought lights with our television cameras. But most of the time, their only light is candles. There's very little in the way of sanitation. There's no running water. There's no electricity.

And for many, if they don't get out soon, there's no hope.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Awful.

Ben Wedeman, thank you for that report.

Starting today, in Los Angeles, travelers must once again mask up on public transportation. We'll talk about the move with the L.A. County health director. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:03]

BLACKWELL: Local health departments are having vastly different reactions after a federal judge overturned the national travel mask mandate.

The Philadelphia Board of Health just voted to rescind its mask requirement three days after bringing it back.

Now, in Los Angeles County, the Health Department has just reinstated its mask mandate on public transportation.

Barbara Ferrer is the director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health.

Thank you so much for being here.

First, why keep the public transit mandate for masks?

BARBARA FERRER, DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Thanks so much, Victor, for having me and good afternoon.

We are aligned with the CDC. We consistently try to align with their advice that we require masks on all public transit quarters. That's essential for protecting the public's health.

I mean, we consistently try to align with the science and the leadership we get at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This is no different from what we have been doing for last two years.

BLACKWELL: OK, we've got on the screen the numbers for the state of California. It looks like cases are still low.

Let's put up the graph for hospitalizations. Those low as well across the state of California.

And you're right, the CDC guidance has not changed. There's one judge who said this is not legal.

Let me ask you about what happened earlier this week. On Tuesday, L.A. Metro, which operates the buses and rail across L.A. County, they lifted the mask mandate. That's Tuesday of this week.

And the county supervisor said this as part of the statement:

"With more tools at our disposal to combat this virus, including wider availability of vaccines, tests and therapeutics, the county can now continue to progress toward its new normal."

That's the announcement lifting the mandate. And 48 hours later, your office then says, no, you've got to keep the masks on. This is the same county government.

What explains that?

FERRER: You know, again, I want to note the trigger for this decision, not a decision based on the science.

And in fact, as soon as CDC indicated that it was their assessment that, at this time, requiring masking in the indoor transportation corridor was essential for protecting the public's health, the country moved forward through this continuation of the health office order to require masking in a higher-risk setting, which are our transit facilities and our transit lines.

And it's a consistent strategy here in L.A. County.

(CROSSTALK)

FERRER: And our numbers are --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Ms. Ferrer, it isn't consistent. It isn't consistent. Because, on Tuesday, on Tuesday, the county supervisor, one of them, said there's enough now available that we can lift the mask mandate. But 48 hours, a completely contradictory decision from the county.

[14:54:06]

FERRER: You know, on Tuesday, the CDC hadn't yet weighed in with their assessment about whether or not it was essential to continue with this requirement, this safety protection measure.

(CROSSTALK)

FERRER: That was really helpful for us in terms of guidance.

(CROSSTALK)

FERRER: It is confusing when a judge in Florida makes a determination that will affect the entire nation about what is or is not an appropriate safety measure safety measure.

And I would ask all of us to understand that that decision was not expected on the day that it came. And because of that, it takes time for large systems to actually be able to communicate effectively what are the most appropriate steps. Here in L.A. County, for the second day in a row, we're reporting over 2,000 new cases. That's a huge jump from where we were a month ago when we were down to about 500, 600 cases.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: The guidance from the CDC did not change from Tuesday when the L.A. Metro lifted the mask mandate and, on Thursday, when the Health Department reinstated it.

Let me ask you this. In L.A. County, people have to wear a mask at LAX, at the airport. But they do not have to wear it at the mall, at the grocery store, at a movie theater.

What is a greater danger that's present at LAX that isn't present at my local grocery store?

FERRER: That's a great question, Victor. And thanks for pointing out the concerns that people have on, how do you designate a higher-risk area.

I think higher-risk areas are always indoors where people are crowded together for longer periods of time.

And in this case, particularly where people are mingling from many different communities so that you can, again, have increased transmission, people coming from communities with higher levels of disease into communities with less disease, it makes for easy transmission.

And as you know, we do everything we can to reduce transmission. Transmission is still associated with severe illness. And it's still associated having conditions that favor a new variant of concern being able to propagate.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

FERRER: So I think these are sensible strategies. I hear you on your focus that, on Tuesday, it looked one way and then, on Thursday, it looked a different way.

I think we all are trying to do our best in a very quickly changing landscape, not anticipating this federal decision at the point that it came.

BLACKWELL: All right.

FERRER: But again, our job, as public health people, is to make the best decision we can that really amplify our abilities to protect each other.

BLACKWELL: Understood.

FERRER: And we're still going to do that. And in those higher-risk settings, I think this is a sensible precaution.

Again, when the CDC determines that this is not an essential measure --

BLACKWELL: Yes, I understand.

FERRER: -- we'll go ahead and remove that safety protection.

BLACKWELL: I hear that.

Thank you. Barbara Ferrer, L.A. County health director, thank you so much.

So a charged-up speech from a Michigan State Senator has racked up nearly 14 million views. She talks about the morals, the faith, and the baseless claims that were launched by a GOP colleague. She's with us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)