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Russia: Goal is "Full Control" of Southern Ukraine, Donbas; Michigan Lawmaker Blasts GOP Colleague in Passionate Speech. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired April 22, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:02:49]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: The top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

Russia revealed a new goal for its war on Ukraine, and it goes beyond the special operation announced for the eastern Russian. State media reports that a Russian general confirmed for the first time that by seizing Donbas, Russia would have land corridor to Crimea, and he added southern Ukraine to their plan. Pointing out that by having the east and the south, Russia would then be able to access the Russian separatist enclave in the nation of Moldova.

Now, on the east, heavy fighting continues. The U.S. says today that tens of Russian troops have been deployed there. We got pictures here that show the arrival of more forces into Mariupol in the south and tens of thousands of people are still there trapped by Russia's unrelenting shelling.

Evacuations have been going on but very slowly, with no evacuation corridor set up. In another eastern town, just 25 people, they got out on a bus, but under very dangerous Russian shelling. As new satellite images that show evidence of mass graves outside of Mariupol.

And U.N. officials fear there are more as emergency workers tend to the bodies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAVINA SHAMDASANI, SPOKESWOMAN, OFFICE OF UNITED NATIONS HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: There are already has been a bloodbath. We're talking about 2,343, at least 2,343 civilians who have been killed, and we're talking about the summary execution of more than 300 civilians. We are very concerned. We are very worried about what's coming next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Sam Kiley is in Dnipro, Ukraine.

Sam, tell us more about the fighting there in the east where you are. SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what

we have been seeing over the last few days since the Russians and indeed the Ukrainians announced about two days ago effectively that this new phase of the Russian assault on Ukraine started, incremental efforts in the east of the country, particularly due east of where I am and in an area around Kramatorsk. But also further south down to Mariupol, and then in Zaporizhzhia oblast, substantial area of territory, all of it being hit within along -- in the deeper territory and government control longer range rocket, closer in and increased in the use of artillery.

[15:05:16]

No sign yet of any significant troop movements as such, but much more extreme of control in terms of who is dominating artillery. This is classic Soviet style operational procedure, Victor. They used artillery to soften up the ground, soften up the opposition, hopefully in their view kill as many of the opposition as possible, and then try and move their troops in.

But it's also something that the Ukrainians are very, very familiar with indeed. So, I don't think we've yet seen aside from these preparations, aside from this significant troop movements, particularly with reinforcements arriving in Mariupol and the Donbas area, which is known as Luhansk and Donetsk. We haven't really seen the main move yet coming from the Russians. It will be what they try when they go earnestly into the next phase that will be most telling, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the next phase, phase two as detailed by this Russian general. Now admitting, acknowledging what the map has suggested for some time now that it's not just about the east but also about southern Ukraine, the significance of the admission.

KILEY: Yeah. So, let's take admission or the statement at face value. Yes, of course, a Russian aim to join the areas that they believe are traditionally under their control. They've already seized Crimea. They've since seized the east of the country in what they're calling the Donbas or at least a chunk of it, and they are seizing, with the exception of those holdouts in Mariupol, the southern coastline.

Now, they are unable to breakthrough into Mykolaiv. Notwithstanding today, Victory, reports of some 20 civilians injured, at least one killed in heavy shelling there. Odessa, they have not yet attack. But if they're able to push right through, then according to the commander of the central command of the Russian army, General Minnekaev, they will be able to link up with Russian speaking peoples in Moldova.

That may be something that they would make public as a statement of intent, not least because it's highly distracting to what certainly in a shorter term will be an attempt to close that area of territory in the east of the country around Kramatorsk and trying to trap the bulk of the Ukrainian army and annihilate them there. That ultimately I think is probably their plan.

BLCKWELL: Sam Kiley for us in Dnipro, Sam, thank you very much. A former Russian gas executive was found dead in Spain along with his

wife and daughter. Now, this is the second death of a Russian former gas executive this week.

CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Brussels.

Tell us more about this. What more do you know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. Spanish investigators are saying that they discovered Sergey Protosenya dead in his garden, and his wife and daughter dead inside the house. Neighbors there say that they knew the family, that they didn't always spend a lot of time there. They had a very well-appointed house and drove luxury fancy cars. This was family known locally to be rich but very little beyond that actually known.

And investigators are trying to figure out obviously what happened there, how this links to the killing in Moscow, it's not entirely clear. Certainly, there were some very similar hallmarks in it. There, Russian investigators say that Vladislav Avayev and his wife and daughter were found dead in their apartment. That all three had died from gunshot wounds.

The authorities in Moscow are saying that they're treating this as a murder/suicide. Police are saying the door from the apartment was locked from the inside. And the implication there would be, well, in essence, nothing to see here because this must have been committed by the people inside the apartment. But there's been many cases where Russia and overseas, Russia and the Kremlin have sought to silence their critics.

It's not clear that these two were criticizing President Putin at this time at this time. But because of Russia's fast track record, the similarities of the deaths, raising all those questions, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, mysterious indeed.

So, this afternoon, there was a phone call between the president of the European Council and President Putin. What do you know about that?

ROBERTSON: Yeah, 90 minutes long. Blunt and direct is how Charles Michel, the European Council president, described it. He said he wanted to punch through any sort of information vacuum that was around President Putin and tell him directly, because Charles Michel has just been in Kyiv a couple of days ago, tell him about the atrocities that he said he had seen, the evidence of the war crimes that he said he had seen the evidence of.

[15:10:03]

Michel, while in Kyiv, had said that people responsible for those crimes would be punished and it does seem that Michel was telling Putin, your army is responsible. You're responsible. We're going to continue to put sanctions on you. You need to stop the war and pull your troops out. There's no indication, of course, that Putin was actually listening to

him and the best information we seem to have at the moment is that Charles Michel would be among similar unnamed top European Union politicians that the Kremlin has barred from going to Moscow.

BLACKWELL: Nic Robertson in Brussels for us, thank you, Nic.

The White House is not engaged in active reparations to reopen the U.S. embassy in Kyiv despite the UK's announcement they will reopen theirs next week. State Department officials are concerned about the possibility of Russian strike that could accidentally hit the U.S. structure or U.S. personnel. The department is constantly assessing the situation on the ground. That's where we hear from the State Department.

Let's bring in now, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst. He's also the senior director for the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.

Mr. Ambassador, welcome back.

Let's start there with the reopening of the embassy. I know you have said there should be a return of American diplomats to Kyiv. Is there another consideration beyond security? Because the officials in Portugal and Italy and France and Georgia and the long list, they are obviously concerned about security and think it's fine. What else is the U.S. potentially considering?

JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASASDOR TO UKRAINE: No, I think this is all about security or safety. You know, I spent 31 years as a diplomat in the State Department. The last four years, I worked on putting Americans into difficult places where things were unstable and I always felt we're far too risk averse. American national interest demand that U.S. embassy be in Kyiv and it's strange that we have a variety of European countries going back with their embassies and we're not.

We need to move beyond this totally risk averse culture if we're going to be the leader of free world.

BLACKWELL: So, let's talk about this meeting, visit between U.N. secretary general and President Putin scheduled for Tuesday. There's been this parade of world leaders coming to Putin just as we heard the president of the European Council said he wanted to give it to Putin straight, rip through maybe the disinformation. What's the potential for progress here with this meeting next week?

HERBST: I think the potential for progress is just about nil. I understand why the secretary general of U.N. want to try and I wish him the very best of luck. And he could certainly make a pitch for Putin to honor the laws of war and allow for humanitarian aid to get to especially Mariupol and to pull civilians out of Mariupol.

But Putin's war is designed to break the will of the Ukrainian people which means that Putin's war is designed to directly kill, torture Ukrainians. And so, I don't think the secretary general will be very successful.

BLACKWELL: We discussed that you are whelmed by the West's support, not underwhelmed, not overwhelmed, just whelmed, your description there. New images out of Mariupol are heartbreaking, these mass graves and reports that the Ukrainians say there are trucks that are transporting bodies to cover up the deaths.

What more should the world be doing for Mariupol? And let's remember that in Azovstal, the steel plant, there's still hundreds of people, civilians and wounded fighters who are held up there.

HERBST: Look, the world in general, NATO and the European Union in particular, and the United States most of all, needs to provide more assistance to Ukraine. One, there's no reason why we couldn't have sent American aid on a U.S. airline supported by our air force. Not shooting at anyone to land in cities where no humanitarian aid was arriving. We did that in Georgia in -- during the Russian war in Georgia in 2008.

But perhaps more importantly, we had been consistently late and cautious in sending weapons to Ukraine. You know, finally, the Brits sent something called anti-ship missiles about three or four weeks. If the United States or the Brits and others have sent such anti-ship missiles to Ukraine say four months ago, they might have prevented the fuel siege of Mariupol and made impossible for the Russian navy to operate outside of Mariupol.

And even today, I credit the administration for the two arm packages. This week's and last where we are sending long range artillery and multiple rocket launchers to Ukraine and armored personnel carriers.

[15:15:07]

That's all good stuff. Of course, that shouldn't have been sent three months ago. We are still refusing to still have our allies or work with allies to send MiGs and Sukhoi bombers to Ukraine. We are still refusing to send long range drones. We're sending short range drones, and good for that.

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

HERBST: So, we still want (AUDIO GAP).

BLACKWELL: Mr. Ambassador, how much should the U.S. be doing? Let's put up the numbers. You mention the $800 million this week, $800 million last week in military aid. Total thus far since the invasion, $3.4 billion. Another billion in economic support. Another billion plus in humanitarian aid.

President Zelenskyy says his country needs $7 billion a month in economic aid. How much of that should the U.S. pick up?

HERBST: The U.S. should probably provide more assistance than it is right now. But here's what we need to understand, the Russian attack on Ukraine is only a foreshadowing of what they intend to do with American NATO allies, especially in the Baltic states, but perhaps elsewhere in Eastern Europe. We have no obligation to send U.S. forces to fight and die in Ukraine against Russia. We do have an obligation to do that in Estonia or Latvia and Lithuania.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

HERBST: So, yes, we're sending significant aid to Ukraine. But it will be far more expensive in American wealth and lives if Putin wins in Ukraine and then turns his tender mercies to Estonia or to Lithuania.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador John Herbst, always good to have your insight and perspective, sir. Thank you.

HERBST: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. This just in to CNN, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs the bill that would put new restrictions on how schools and businesses can talk about race and gender. More on that next.

And a Michigan Democratic state senator goes viral after responding to her GOP colleague who accused her of wanting to groom and sexualize kindergarteners.

I'll speak with her about that, next.

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BLACKWELL: In an impassioned speech that's now gone viral, a Michigan Democratic lawmaker hit back at her Republican colleague for accusing her of wanting to groom and sexualize kindergarteners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALLORY MCMORROW (D), MICHIGAN STATE SENATE: I am a straight, white, Christian married, suburban mom who knows that the very notion that learning about slavery or red lining or systemic racism somehow means that children are being taught to feel bad or hate themselves because they are white is absolute nonsense. We cannot let hateful people tell you otherwise to scapegoat and deflect from the fact that they are not doing anything to fix the real issues that impact people's lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So, this all started when that senator, State Senator Mallory McMorrow, walked out of a politicized invocation by GOP state senator Lana Theis. Now, during that, she claimed that children were under attack from progressive education. Theis responded to the walkout with an e-mail fund-raiser containing the baseless allegations of grooming.

Well, Senator McMorrow joins me now.

Thank you so much for being with me.

Fourteen-point-one million views of your speech that we played just a clip of there. What has been the reaction that you heard personally to that?

MCMORROW: The reaction has been unbelievably positive not only from our district and the state and the country, but around the world. We have gotten so many calls and e-mails and texts from people of faith, Christians, Democrats, progressives, people of all backgrounds, Republicans, veterans who have just said thank you. It is -- it's really moving.

BLACKWELL: So, let me read a line from this fundraising e-mail that Senator Lana Theis sent out, the one you were responding to there where she called you a progressive social media troll outraged that you can't teach, can't groom and sexualize kindergarteners or that 8- year-olds are responsible for slavery. You say you didn't expect that, understandably. I don't know who would wake up and expect that would come in about them.

But what went through your mind when you read it the first time?

MCMORROW: You know, my heart just sank. It's such a vile, disgusting thing for a mother to say about another mother with no thought of reality or there might be consequences.

BLACKWELL: So, why did you decide to write that speech and take to the floor? You sat on it for a minute and then decide to write what you deliver. Why did you do that?

MCMORROW: Because I realized in coming after me and naming me, it felt like a red flag to anybody else who dares to stand with the LGBTQ community or against attacks about CRT or pushing back on those notions that if you stand up beside them, you're no longer one of us. You're one of them. And it was an attempt to dehumanize me and marginalize me.

And I'm okay. You know, I'm a straight, white, suburban mom who is okay. And I wanted to make it clear that you don't get to re-define me and that we have to stand up for marginalized people who are too often the point of these attacks.

BLACKWELL: So, you draw the line from directly the QAnon conspiracies that have permeated a certain portion of our society for a while directly to these accusations of grooming, pedophilia as well, and those are not new. But if you draw that line, how do you stop it?

MCMORROW: You stop it by more people like me just blunting it because so far, it's been effective. It's come out of the darkest corners of the Internet and into the mainstream. We have one of our major political parties leveraging this attack, particularly against marginalized kids, people in the LGBTQ community and it only stops if those of White House are not marginalized stand up and take the hit frankly and take the power away from these baseless accusations.

BLACKWELL: Have you heard from Senator Theis personally or her office at all?

MCMORROW: No.

BLACKWELL: Okay. Let me read for you a statement she released here. It's two sentences.

Senator McMorrow is not naive about politics and fundraising. I know that because it took her mere minutes to turn her Senate floor speech into plea for campaign donations. It goes on to say: While Senator McMorrow is on MSNBC preaching to her choir, I'll keep my focus on Michigan parents, who Democrats are seeking to undermine as a primary decision-makers in the education of their children.

Any reaction or response?

MCMORROW: It is -- it is absolutely ridiculous. It's sad that she's doubling down. I did not make any direct fundraising plea in the speech, in my Twitter thread where I shared it at all. Lots of other people found us.

But again, she's doubling down on the idea that she speaks for parents with very hateful rhetoric and as another parent, I'm calling everybody else to stand up with me and say enough is enough.

BLACKWELL: Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow, thank you so much.

Technology is playing a flu role on the front lines of this war in Ukraine. Ukrainians reportedly using facial recognition to notify the families of Russians killed in combat.

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