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Florida Governor Says He Signed New Congressional Map into Law; DeSantis Signs Bills Targeting Disney, Stripping it of Self-Governing Status; Some Ukrainians Blame the U.S. for Russia's War on Their Country; Ukraine Using Face ID Technology to Identify Deceased Russian Soldiers and Then Contacting Family Members. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 22, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Minutes ago, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis announced he has now signed the state's new Congressional map into law. Remember this is the map that he designed. The Republican also said he signed two bills involving his ongoing feud with Disney. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Tallahassee for us. Dianne, get us up to speed.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Victor, this was sort of large bill signing for the governor in south Florida. Initially it was billed as he was going to sign into law something that was passed during the regular session that will limit how businesses and schools can discuss racism. And then at the very end, he tacked on that he was going to sign into law those bills that target Disney that were passed just yesterday by the legislature along party lines.

Now course, one of those being the bill that will dissolve Disney's special self-governing district called the Reedy Creek Improvement District. I do want to caution that that bill does not go into effect even though it was signed today, until June 1st, 2023. In part because there's still a lot of questions about how it can actually be implemented due to Disney's tax and debt situation.

Democrats from the county, Orange County, where Disney is located have expressed concern about how much money it's going to cost taxpayers once that special district, if it is in fact dissolved. Talking about adding potentially up to $2,800 per household to property taxes to offset that debt and also the missing tax additions that Disney has to pay to that special district that regular counties cannot.

Now Republicans have continued to say that they will figure that out over the course of the next year. Of course, this is widely seen as a retaliation bill because Disney spoke out about that so-called don't say gay bill that limits discussion with young children in schools about gender identity and sexual orientation.

The governor actually alluded to that saying at first it was about special districting and special treatment for some companies but he did note that Disney spoke up about that particular bill. Said whatever reason they got on the bandwagon and he said he just was not comfortable with that type of agenda getting special treatment in my state. That echoes what we have heard from other Republicans here in Florida, including the authors of that bill. Telling me that quote, Disney poked the bear when it spoke out about the bill. The other important legislation that the governor said he signed earlier today before going to South Florida, are those new Congressional maps here in Florida.

Now a lawsuit was already filed this morning by several civil rights groups alleging that it violates the Florida State Constitution because it diminishing black representation based on analysis. The governor himself drew these maps after vetoing Republican past maps during the regular session.

[15:35:00]

There were no changes made to it. It would at least eliminate two districts that are held by black members of Congress currently -- Representative Al Lawson and Representative Val Deming. Victor, we're going to see this in court. It is potential we will see additional lawsuits as well. But the governor to cheers from conservatives there in the audience in South Florida saying that he felt very accomplished and was proud of his agenda.

BLACKWELL: A lot going on in Florida there. Dianne Gallagher watching it all for us. Thank you, Dianne.

All right, so we're in the last hour trading for the week. Last few minutes actually. The Dow down about 650 points. We'll explain what's behind that drop.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Heavy fighting in the eastern part of Ukraine continues to disrupt these attempts to get people trapped in that city -- those cities there by the Russian shelling. CNN's Clarissa Ward recently profiled a Ukrainian man who voluntarily drive to the frontlines to rescue people caught in this crossfire. And some of the people he delivers to safety surprisingly do not blame Vladimir Putin for this war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, it's interesting. She's saying that she thinks that Russia actually wanted to negotiate here and she blames America, primarily, for this war.

[15:40:00]

WARD (voice over): Putin wants to find a peaceful solution, her husband tells us. Please don't tell this bullshit to the whole world, Alexander says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right, Steve Hall is the former CIA chief of Russia operations and a CNN national security analyst. Steve let's start with -- listen, this is the eastern part of the country. They get -- according to Clarissa's reporting Russian language media there and the disinformation apparently is working.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I think is yet another good example in is very concrete. You see it coming out of people's mouths who live close to the Russian border of the impact and the effective that a blanketing of propaganda. Which is the sort of methodology that Putin is using how effective it could be. Of course, we've seen some of that in this country as well. You know, when enough people listen to certain things on television, you know, you'll start to act and believe a certain way.

But is particularly effective when you blanket it like Russia does. And there are people in Ukraine who are not as anti-Russia as others. Typically, these are the ones who live in the East. So, it's not surprising that if do you live that close and you pick up those broadcast and you're sort of inclined in that way anyway that you sort of buy into these things.

BLACKWELL: Is there any surprise -- are you surprised at all that Russia did invade, they are shelling these cities that the blame falls on the U.S. who was sending in support for other Ukrainians.

HALL: You know, having spent the amount of time that I had in this part of the world, Russia, the former Soviet Union, the Balkans, you know, you see these twisted conspiracy theories really quite consistently. And the Russians know this much better than we in the West understand it and they leverage it. So, it really doesn't surprise me.

There are so many themes that the Russians will put out there. Sort of the types of things that that you are hearing. Like, you know, Russia is really doing the right thing an if it weren't for the aggressive West, the so-called expansion of NATO. As though NATO was going out and selling gym memberships to try to attract other countries. Those sort of theories will be out there. And this part of the world conspiracy theories are a strong thing and a lot of people hold to them.

Steve, I want you to stay with me for this next conversation with Drew Harwell. He is a reporter for the "Washington Post." Recently wrote a piece about how Ukraine officials are using their own type of psychological warfare. They're using facial recognition software to scan the faces of dead and captured Russian soldier and then contacting their family members in Russia. Drew, thanks for joining this conversation. Explain how this is happening. Because from what I read, it's not the government. These are hackers who are doing this. Walk us through it.

DREW HARWELL, TECH REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: There's actually a number of actually Ukrainian agencies, officials with those agencies from the police, and the military, that are using images of Russian soldiers faces, you know, corpses but also captured soldiers and running those through a search that allows them to find the social media profiles of these men back in Russia. Using their profiles to find their mother and family member and contacting them directly.

Sending the photos even and saying is this your son? He's killed in Ukraine. The idea is that they can reach sort of Russian families where they are. Dispel that kind of disinformation that you have been talking about by showing them the visual evidence. They've already done it in hundreds of cases now. And they're talking about expanding it even further.

BLACKWELL: And there is an expectation on their part. Not just a psychological warfare but that it could, Drew, in some way lead to an end to this war. Explain that.

HARWELL: Yes, the feeling is that if you get these Russian mothers upset enough, that they realize that they had no idea that their son was going off to war. That he was killed in this way. That the shock of that would lead them to protest against Vladimir Putin. To go out into the street and to rally. And there's a precedent here in terms of Russian mothers fighting back against the government and being quite effective in that. So, the Ukrainians are being sort of innovative in a way. And trying to reach people at the grass level and foment this antiwar dissent and to get people angry from inside the Russian government to do what they can to stop this war.

BLACKWELL: And Steve, this information comes from the families in the absence of information from the Russian government. We've profiled people who are looking on social media asking about sailors who were on the Moskva or where their young sons are because the Russian government isn't telling them much at all.

HALL: Yes, this is sort after a brave new world. I mean, I think there's three questions to be asked of this. First of all, is it legal. And I think if you're talking about -- I'll certainly -- I'm not a lawyer. I defer to lawyers who know better. But to my knowledge when you're talking about dead soldiers, there's nothing illegal with photographing them, you know, as long as you're not defacing and that sort of thing.

[15:45:00]

Is it ethical. Again, like so many things that are ethically related, you have to ask what is the motivation here. The motivation here is not to shame or deface or defame these soldiers but rather to show, as we were just talk about, to show people who are subjected to this propaganda that actually know soldiers are dying.

And then the last thing is, is it useful. There's two schools of thought here. The first is, no, this is just going to really irritate and make Russians even more mad at the deaths that the Ukrainians are causing. But I think the Ukrainians are calculating differently. They are calculating no. This is going to puncture or hopefully try to puncture this propaganda bubble that Putin has over his population that things are going swimmingly in the Ukraine and nobody is dying in any great number. And I think that's the real motivating factor here.

BLACKWELL: And so, what is the allowance that the Ukrainians are making, Drew, for the potential that this could backfire.

HARWELL: You know, they feel like this is an idea that's worth pursuing. They're desperate, right. There in defense of their lives and their land. They feel like this is something to pursue. And yet that worry about backfiring is very real. And you know, the example conversations that the Ukrainians have shared that they've had with these mothers, family members of dead Russians are gut wrenching really. I mean, they are brutal that we've seen and include some of them in our reporting. You know, they showed these family members that are shocked. Imagine, you know, seeing your son in that way from a stranger online.

So, I think the worry about this becoming exactly what the Ukrainians don't want. Right. Getting them -- getting Russian family members mad at not Russia but Ukraine. Feeling like what are they doing to our boys. I think that's real concern. There are, like you said, ethical concerns, right, we have the Geneva conventions that talk about, you know, captives and war. There are reasons why we don't want to parade captives through the streets. We've had cases like that already over the years. This is a little bit different but the sentiment is there. Are we treating combatants like humans in this? Or are we going to balk.

BLACKWELL: Drew Harwell, Steve Hall, thank you both.

Alexey Navalny went from Putin's critic to his prisoner. Ahead of this Sunday's premier of the CNN film "Navalny," we look at how the Russian opposition leader stood up to the Kremlin even after being poisoned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

BLACKWELL: Russian opposition leader and fierce Putin critic Alexey Navalny has been in jail for more than a year now after surviving an alleged murder attempt and tracking down the would-be assassins, his story reads like a spy thriller. And it's now being told in the new CNN film, "Navalny." CNN's Alex Marquardt has a look at one of Putin's greatest enemies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): There is no greater antagonist or political threat in Russia to Vladimir Putin than Alexey Navalny. As a result, the 45-year-old opposition leader is now languishing in a Russian penal colony, serving a combined sentence of more than 11 years in prison.

ALEXEY NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I understand how system work in Russia. I understand that Putin hates me.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Navalny's imprisonment is the culmination of more than a decade of activism, of being a thorn in Putin's side. He was a blogger and a lawyer who emerged in 2008, exposing corruption at some Russian state-owned companies.

NAVALNY (through translator): The Putin regime is built on corruption. And Putin himself is the most corrupt.

MARQUARDT (voice over): In 2011, after allegations that parliamentary elections were rigged in favor of Putin's political party, Navalny rose to prominence as a leader in the large-scale protests.

Over the years, he was repeatedly arrested, evidence of a growing popularity that threatened the Russian establishment's grip on power. His shining rise somewhat complicated in his early days with cooperation and marching alongside other anti-Putin forces, which included members of far-right nationalist groups. Navalny justifies it now by saying a broad coalition is needed to fight a totalitarian regime.

In 2013, he ran for mayor of Moscow, and lost to Putin's favorite candidate. The same year he was also convicted of embezzlement, a conviction which he called trumped up, that would prevent him for running for president against Putin in 2018.

Two years later, in August 2020, he boarded a flight from the central Russian city of Tomsk to Moscow. Soon, his cries were heard throughout the cabin. Navalny knew exactly what had happened.

NAVALNY: So, I'm over to the flight attendant and said to him, I was poisoned. I'm going to die.

MARQUARDT (voice over): He'd been poisoned with a chemical nerve agent called Novichok. He was flown to Germany for treatment. A joint investigation by CNN and the investigative group Bellingcat, uncovered the team of agents from the FSB, the successor to the KGB, that had tracked and followed Navalny for years before the poisoning.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is it your contention that Vladimir Putin must have been aware of this?

NAVALNY: Of course, 100 percent.

MARQUARDT (voice over): CNN's Clarissa Ward and her team confronted a member of the FSB's toxin team, Oleg Tayakiin, at his apartment on the outskirts of Moscow.

WARD: My name's Clarissa Ward. I work for CNN. Can I ask you a couple of questions? Was it your team that poisoned Navalny, please?

MARQUARDT (voice over): Five months after his poisoning, Navalny returned to Russia, knowing what awaited him.

NAVALNY: I will go back because I'm Russian politician. I belong to this country. I would never give Putin such a gift.

MARQUARDT (voice over): He was arrested on arrival. In prison, he started a hunger strike. He was initially sentenced to two and a half years for violating his probation, then another nine were added for fraud and contempt of court charges, which Putin critics say are clearly political.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: It is a remarkable story. Be sure to watch the all-new CNN film "Navalny." Premiers Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: CNN heroes is our chance to put a spotlight on people who are working hard to effect change. In 2021, the hero of the year was Shirley Rain. She worked tirelessly to help the homeless in Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALE: Shirley Raines!

SHIRLEY RAINES, CNN HERO 2021: As much as you want to live in the moment and say it doesn't really matter, let's be real. I wanted to bring that prize money, that recognition to the community. I really wanted them to have that platform.

RAINES: Good morning, you guys!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congratulations Shirley!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congratulations to God!

RAINES: The world had an opportunity to vote for ten amazing organizations. And they chose one that dealt with homelessness, which I think to them might say, oh, my God. People are really are paying attention. People really are looking. People really do care. I'm hoping that this win will bring more eyes down here. There is a massive need for blankets. There's a massive need for tents.

I've always said this from the beginning. I don't do hero stuff, you know what I mean? I do human stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew there was something about you.

RAINES: I know something about you, too.

Honestly, all the stuff I've been through in my personal life, I think it's amazing to have gotten this far. Because I came from, oh, my God, the bottom. Now I was on CNN heroes? It definitely should give hope to other people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:00:00]

BLACKWELL: Fantastic work from Shirley Raines. To see more of her story and her work, go to CNNheroes.com.

All right, a final minute of trading and markets are falling sharply. Right about 1,000 points down. Investors are worried about aggressive rate hikes after comments from Fed Chairman Jerome Powell.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.