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Satellite Images Show Possible Mass Graves in Ukraine; Russian Leadership Announces Goals of Russian Invasion of Ukraine Including Control of Southern and Eastern Parts of Country; Ukrainian Residents Suffer from Constant Shelling by Russian Forces; Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) Testifies in Court on Possible Information She Received concerning Violent Capitol Insurrection on January 6th, 2021; Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Bill Ending Disney World's Self-Governing Status after Disney Objected Law Prohibiting Schools from Teaching Young Children about Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity; Russian Orthodox Church's Backing of Vladimir Putin's Invasion of Ukraine Examined; Police identify Suspect in Shooting Rampage that Left Four People Wounded in Washington, D.C. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired April 23, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:34]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with new attacks in Ukraine. Just moments ago, the port city of Odessa announced a Russian missile hit infrastructure facilities there. Details are still coming in. And we're also seeing what could be chilling new evidence of possible war crimes in Ukraine. Satellite images appear to show mass graves outside of Mariupol. An adviser to the mayor there says they do in fact show mass graves. But CNN cannot independently verify those claims. The discovery happening as the heavy fighting continues in the long-besieged port city, an estimated 100,000 people, soldiers and civilians, still trapped. One small boy praying for a miracle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I want to see the sun so that when our houses are rebuilt, we can live in peace, so we can live in Ukraine, because this is our native home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And today another humanitarian corridor opening in Mariupol as civilians desperately try to escape the fighting. Russia capturing dozens of small towns in the east. But U.K. officials say Russians have not made any major gains in the last 24 hours. This as Russia reveals its end game in the invasion. Top military officials saying they plan to take full control over southern Ukraine and the eastern Donbas region.

Let's bring in now Scott McLean who is in Lviv. So what can you tell us about these photos that appear to show mass graves?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fredricka. Yes, so these pictures were taken in a village far to the east of Mariupol, about 10 miles or so. And they show -- this is an existing cemetery, and they show trenches that have been freshly dug. The earth has been freshly moved, and there are maybe about 40, 45 yards in width, and there's several rows of them.

As you mentioned, CNN can't independently confirm what exactly these are, but the mayor's office is saying that these are, in fact, mass graves. And it is not the first time that we've seen this. Just a few days ago, there were a separate set of satellite images. These ones were to the west of the city this time, again, in a cemetery, but very freshly dug graves in very long rows. These ones about 80, 90 yards long. Individual graves had been dug out, perhaps 200 of them.

Now, officials in Mariupol, they say that the death toll is -- could number 20,000, though, in reality, there's simply no way to tally the scale of the human cost of this siege on that city just yet. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Scott, there's an evacuation corridor that is supposed to be open today. What are you learning about those possibilities?

MCLEAN: Yes, keyword "supposed to." These things are really hit and miss when it comes to the corridors. So this particular corridor was announced by the Ukrainians. It is supposed to head to Zaporizhzhia. That is in Ukrainian held territory. But already Ukrainian officials are warning that the Russians may try to push people in the opposite direction. They have not had very much success as of late in terms of getting people out of the city.

The starting point for this humanitarian corridor, if people do manage to find it, is at a mall on the western edge of the city. That is a long way from the steel plant where the Ukrainian troops are having their last stand, and where there are women and children sheltering underneath that facility. And there's new video showing just how deep people are underground. The children there, who, as you played in that clip earlier, haven't seen the sunshine in two months now. It's a very dire situation. The Russians, it seems, are simply waiting for them to run out of food, and people will eventually have to come to the surface.

The difficulty, Fredricka, for the people who may want to get on these humanitarian corridors, they're only allowing women and children, is that they're difficult to find because there's no communications in the city. I've spoken to people who managed to get out of Mariupol, but they went through Russia. And the reason that they said they did that is because, well, they had no other choice. They went with what they had heard in terms of rumors, they went with their instincts, just trying to find any way of the city. And at the end of the day, beggars really could not be choosers.

WHITFIELD: And Scott, there was more shelling in Mykolaiv overnight. How is this reflecting this new phase of this war that's targeting the southern portion of the country? [10:05:02]

MCLEAN: Yes, so no casualties in Mykolaiv. There was some infrastructure that was hit. There have been injuries, though, reported over the last 48 hours in that city. There's also been strikes elsewhere in the eastern part of the country, then those missile strikes that you mentioned in Odessa as well. Officials locally are saying that they hit residential infrastructure, saying that one person was burned alive in their car.

And so you mentioned this new phase of the war, phase two that the Russians say began a few days ago. The goal, according to a military commander, is to fully be in control of the eastern part of the country, the Donbas region, and also the southern part of Ukraine along the Black Sea as well. That's significant because that would extend the land bridge that Russia already has which connects Russia to Crimea, and it would go all the way to Moldova. Specifically, they would like to link up with a separatist part of Moldova called Transnistria where Russian troop shave been present since the 1990s. Obviously, that, though, is not going over well with the Moldovans. They summoned the Russian ambassador to make their displeasure very clearly known, saying that they're a neutral country, they're an independent country, and their borders ought to be respected.

WHITFIELD: All right, Scott McLean, thank you so much, from Lviv.

Many civilians have been forced to flee as Russia intensifies its campaign in eastern Ukraine, and for those desperate to escape, it's almost impossible to avoid coming under fire. But one brave Ukrainian is willing to face that danger and risk his life to help them evacuate. More now from CNN's Clarissa Ward.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a road few are willing to take anymore, but every day, volunteer Alexander Prokopenko makes the dangerous drive towards Russian forces in his hometown of Popasna to rescue fellow residents from the heavy fighting.

"They shell everything," he tells us, "School buses, the Red Cross, anything that moves."

So why do you do this work?

"I love my town and I can't leave it," he says, "I can't leave the people here. Somebody needs to help people."

He's hoping the rain provides some letup in the relentless artillery. "It's better for us, but it's worse for the road," he says. "You can't see the potholes and the shrapnel from the shells."

He arrives at the village of Komyshuvakha on the outskirts of Popasna. In the last few days it has come under heavy shelling. Anatole (ph) is now being evacuated with his son, Volodymyr (ph). The neighbor shouts at us to show what the Russians have done. Those who stay here are now completely cut off from basic services.

So there's no electricity here, no water at all, and you can see they're actually collecting rainwater.

It's time for Anatole (ph) and Volodymyr (ph) to go. Their entire life now packed into the trunk of Alexander's car. Leaving the village, we spot a house destroyed by shelling. As we get out to take a closer look, a tearful Galina (ph) Nikolaivna (ph) emerges. She tells us it happened two days earlier. "The first hit was at 5:50 and there was a second hit," she says, "and that hit my garage."

She takes us around what remains of her home. The steady thuds of artillery can still be heard. The roof is completely destroyed. "This is where the first shell hit," she says. Galina (ph) had just woken up and lying in her bed when it happened. "We have nothing left," she says. In the living room, she takes down the drapes that were hung to hide any light. "This is how we tried to mask ourselves," she tells us. There's no need for them anymore.

Galina (ph) and her husband still don't want to leave their home, but she understands that Russia's offensive here has only just begun and it's going to get much worse. "I lived until 60, and now I have lost everything," she says. "Honestly, I have no words."

For those like Anatole (ph) and Volodymyr (ph) who do leave, there are few good options. Alexander takes them to a dormitory in a nearby town of Bakhmut. They can stay five days for free. After that, it's up to them.

[10:10:00]

In the next door bed, another couple rescued by Alexander tell us there is nothing left of their home, but they don't blame President Putin. "Thank you, America," she says. "It's a horror. It's a nightmare."

So it's interesting, she's saying that she thinks Russia actually wanted to negotiate here, and she blames America, primarily, for this war.

"Putin wants to find a peaceful solution," her husband tells us. "Please don't tell this bullshit to the whole world," Alexander says.

It's not an uncommon view in these parts of eastern Ukraine, making the situation here all the more complex. Alexander says he evacuates anyone, whatever their political views. He knows there are still so many out there who need his help.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Bakhmut, Ukraine.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: And for more information about how you can help humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, go to CNN.com/Impact.

Still ahead, new court documents reveal former President Trump's chief of staff Mark Meadows was warned that January 6th could turn violent. Those details next.

Plus, Florida governor Ron DeSantis going after Disney, signing a bill into law that strips the company of their special tax status. But the financial impact may fall on the residents of neighboring cities. We'll discuss, straight ahead.

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WHITFIELD: New court filings from the House select committee show then White House chief of staff Mark Meadows was warned the rally on January 6th could turn violent. The filing quotes testimony from a former White House official close to Meadows, and it comes as the House tries to combat Meadows' refusal to testify in the Capitol Hill investigation. CNN's Marshall Cohen joining us now with more on this. So what can you tell us about these developments?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Fred, this was a pretty significant court filing late last night, 250 pages, with new information, new information about what Mark Meadows and the Trump White House knew in those critical weeks before January 6th. The big question has been over the last year, did anyone know? Did anyone know this was going to get out of hand? Did anyone plan for any violence?

And now, as you mentioned, there is testimony from a former Meadows aide. She sat down with the committee twice in February and March, and she testified two big things, that Meadows was warned about potential violence, and that Meadows was told that that wild, ridiculous plan to have Mike Pence throw the election to Donald Trump at the last minute, that it wasn't legally sound. But yet they went ahead and did it anyway. They tried, at least.

WHITFIELD: Pretty potentially incriminating.

COHEN: Well, there's a long way to go before that. But this is not helpful to the Trump White House.

WHITFIELD: Not helpful at all. Meantime, you're in town. So glad that you are here. Also in town, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene who was testifying. You were helping to cover that. You were sitting right in earshot distance of it all. How striking is this?

COHEN: It's a big deal. It felt like a circus yesterday. Over eight hours in a courtroom just down the street here in Atlanta. But this is about, still, January 6th and accountability. Some groups have tried to throw Marjorie Taylor Greene off the ballot, remove here from the ballot based off the argument that she's ineligible to run because of her role in the insurrection. The big question, again, did she know about plans for violence? That was one of the first questions that she was asked under oath on the witness stand. Take a listen at what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to January 6th, Representative Greene, did anyone ever mention to you the possibility that there might be violence in Washington on January 6th, 2021? REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I don't remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it's possible that folks told you things could get violent in Washington on January 6th, right?

GREENE: I was a brand-new member of congress. I don't remember those conversations. But I would hope Nancy Pelosi and those in charge of the capitol were taking the Capitol security very seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is just about whether anybody at all ever mentioned to you the possibility of violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So a lot of "I don't knows," a lot of "I don't remembers."

WHITFIELD: Her amnesia is striking.

COHEN: Right, especially about some of her own things. They kept showing her videos and posts that she posted on Facebook and Twitter, and she said, I don't know, I have no idea. But it was part of a theme yesterday, Fred, about trying to distance herself from what happened on January 6th while also, amazingly, still pushing some of the same conspiracy theories that fueled January 6th, stuff about alleged fraud in 2020, which we all know did not change the outcome. Listen to what she said, still holding tight to some of those pro-Trump conspiracies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believed that Joe Biden had lost the election to Mr. Trump, right?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, (R-GA): Well, yes. We saw tremendous amount of voter fraud. We have investigations going on right now in the state of Georgia. There's investigations going on in multiple states.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe the FBI was behind the January 6th violence at the Capitol?

GREENE: I don't know. I certainly think there's a lot to be investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Yes. She thinks -- it's ridiculous. Obviously, the FBI didn't do it. So that case, huge hearing yesterday. Now we're all just going to have to sit and wait for the judge. He will issue a recommendation on the question of whether she's an insurrectionist and whether she should be disqualified. That should come in a few weeks.

[10:20:00]

WHITFIELD: And a lot is riding on that outcome, because there are other members of Congress who will be watching this very closely because they have to also exam what their level of participation may have been before, during, and after January 6th as well as the former president, in terms of whether they would be able to run again.

COHEN: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: If they had the same kind of involvement.

COHEN: There is the challenge in North Carolina against Madison Cawthorn. That got thrown out pretty early. There are other things pending in Arizona against a few members there. But, of course, these liberal groups and constitutional scholars that have funded this and laid the groundwork here, they've got their eye on the big prize, Donald Trump. If he does run again, you definitely can expect a challenge. And frankly, they'll have more evidence against someone like Donald Trump than they did against Congresswoman Greene who kind of was on the sides, where Donald Trump was right in the White House calling the shots.

WHITFIELD: We'll see if amnesia is contagious.

(LAUGHTER)

COHEN: We'll see.

WHITFIELD: Marshall Cohen, good to see you.

COHEN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And especially in person. Welcome to Atlanta.

COHEN: Pleasure.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is stripping Disney of its special tax status. What this means not only for Disney but for taxpayers in the community surrounding the park, next.

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WHITFIELD: Florida's feud with the Walt Disney company hitting a new tipping point. Governor Ron DeSantis signing a bill on Friday dismantling Disney World's self-governing status. This after Disney objected to a law prohibiting schools from teaching young kids about sexual orientation or gender identity. The governor also signing a new controversial congressional map for the state.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is covering the develops in Miami. Carlos, both of these new laws are expected to have major impacts on Floridians.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Fredricka. Good morning.

The governor of Florida, he wasted no time in signing several bills including two that target Disney as well as that new congressional redistricting map that critics say diminishes the black vote in Florida. Now, the governor's map, the one that he designed, gives Republicans a chance at picking up four congressional seats later this year. Now, on Friday, a number of civil rights organizations, they filed a lawsuit saying the new map violates the state constitution because, again, it diminishes the black vote in the state of Florida. Now, the legislature only took up this issue in a special session this week because the governor vetoed the map that they passed earlier this year.

On the Disney side of things, the governor was able to get lawmakers to strip the company from being able to self-governor the land that Disney sits on in and around the Orlando area. Critics said that that move was in retaliation to Disney's criticism of Florida's "don't say gay" law.

Now, one big question out here, a looming outstanding detail in all of this, is what happens to that special district's debt which is being paid by Disney? Democratic lawmakers have said that that money would be passed onto taxpayers.

The other bill that dealt with Disney did away with an exception that the company had on people that might be suing big tech companies over censorship. The governor, he was in south Florida on Friday to sign all of these measures into law, and he kept up his criticism of Disney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): You're a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you're going to marshal your economic might to attack the parents of my state? We view that as a provocation, and we're going to fight back against that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUAREZ: All, so the move to end Disney's special district doesn't go into effect until June of 2023, meaning there is some time for both sides to hammer out a new agreement, including just how the debt is going to be handled. The governor also signed another bill that deals with some new restrictions that are being put in place for businesses and schools when it comes to talking about the issues of race and gender. And Fredricka, a lawsuit against that measure was also filed on Friday.

WHITFIELD: All right, Carlos Suarez, thank you so much for that.

Let's talk more about the Disney effect here. Here with us now, the tax collector for Orange County, Florida, which encompasses most of the Disney World properties, Scott Randolph. So good to see you. So this is pretty complicated. Thank you so much. So this is pretty complicated, isn't it? This move to strip Disney of its special tax designation happened very quickly. But now we're learning it could shift a $163 million tax burden that the company pays for public services into local governments. So how will Orange County make up for that?

SCOTT RANDOLPH, (D) ORANGE COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR: Well, that's a good question. Look, normally Disney is a huge contributor to the Republican Party here in Florida. Normally, if Tallahassee and Disney want to get into a fight, I would just sit back and pop some popcorn and watch them go at it. But now I represent 1.4 million people in Orange County that, like you said, might be stuck with $163 million a year tax bill. And on day one, when that special taxing district gets dissolved, one side of the ledger is going to say zero and the other side is going to say negative $163 million. And Orange County residents are going to have to find a way to make that up.

WHITFIELD: Do you think the governor overlooked that little detail?

(LAUGHTER)

RANDOLPH: Well, that's what happens when you change a massive regulatory structure in 72 hours.

WHITFIELD: So help us understand what costs or services did Disney pick up with this self-governing status?

[10:30:08]

RANDOLPH: Exactly. I think there's some misperception that Disney gets a special tax break or they're not paying their property taxes. Disney pays the same property taxes that everybody else does in Orange County. They pay their school taxes, they paid $40 million a year to Orange County government last year. And then on top of that, they paid property taxes to that special district, Reedy Creek, in order to provide services around the Disney properties, like firefighting services. Every time somebody had a car accident or had a medical incident, think about the millions of people that visit Disney every year, road maintenance, flood control. They have their own power plant, wastewater, drinking water facilities. All of that debt and obligation goes over to Orange County the minute that Reedy Creek is dissolved.

There is no extra tax money that comes with that. So again, one side of the ledger will say zero, and the other side is going to say negative $163 million.

WHITFIELD: So then two things. Will the services, residents of those areas, can they expect those services that you just outlined, from fire to water, will those services change? And the second to that is, how much more are they going to have to shell out in order to receive those services that Disney used to be paying for?

RANDOLPH: Well, exactly. And look, Orange County government only has a few cards to be able to play to make that money up, right? They can't do a new taxing district because most of that land is in an incorporated part of the county. They can't do special taxes or special fees on Disney to make that money up. So Orange County, we have a great mayor, a great team over there, I'm sure they'll do everything they can. But at the end of the day, again, it's going to be zero versus $163 million. So Orange County residents, if that gets passed along as property tax increases, then you're probably looking at a 20 to 25 percent property tax increase for the average resident.

WHITFIELD: Wow. That's huge. RANDOLPH: Now, if you're a business in Orange County -- yes. For the

average resident, it could be $250, $300 a year, every year. This is like an annual, ongoing cost. That's just for a homeowner. If you run a business here in Orange County, you could be looking at thousands of dollars. The irony is, of course, we also have Universal parks and Sea World, and ironically, they could be paying tens of thousands of dollars more per year to pay off Disney debt.

WHITFIELD: Interest. And so let's talk a little bit more about that Disney outstanding debt. It's pretty substantial, right, somewhere around $1 billion. How will that be absorbed into all of this?

RANDOLPH: Exactly. I've seen anywhere from $1 billion to $2 billion. So I don't think anybody actually knows the actual amount. But it operates just like a municipal. I'm sure they bond it out to build roads, to build a drinking water facility, to build fire stations, those types of things, typical government bonds. All that comes over to Orange County. So all that is really known for sure is they -- it requires about $58 million a year in bond payments. That's what they collect in order to service that debt. So Orange County would immediately have to find $58 million a year in order just to service that debt.

WHITFIELD: So we just reported, we have -- when I say we, I mean Floridians. You have until, what, June of 2023 to work out any potential new agreement that may have come as a result of the signing of this. What kind of changes do you see are likely to happen before this were to take effect? Especially now that people may be hearing this for the first time in this conversation from you.

RANDOLPH: Yes. Again, Orange County's hands are pretty tied. There's only so many -- they have just a few cards to play. So any changes that would come would have to come from Tallahassee. So tallahassee, just sort of gave --

WHITFIELD: Not from Orange County --

RANDOLPH: Not really from Orange County. Again, Orange County's options are to try to find maybe some revenue from, obviously, selling water back to Disney or selling some power back to Disney. That's not going to cover $163 million, right? Their only other card is property taxes, which they would have to do across the board. So significant changes would have to come from Tallahassee which is where all of this began at. So will Tallahassee fix it?

And the implementation date is a year away, but what has this done for the business climate, right? Even if they undo this, why if you are a fortune 500 company thinking about investing somewhere would you come to a state that changed the regulatory instruction in a 72-hour time period?

WHITFIELD: And so Scott, I'm no psychologist, but I'm just detecting just in your occasional snickering, it's not that it's funny, but it's almost like exasperation that I'm seeing from you. Is that right?

[10:35:01] RANDOLPH: Yes, that's exactly right. Again, it's like, you can't make policy like this in 72 hours. And I'm not here to say -- maybe Reedy Creek had outlived its usefulness. Maybe it did need to go away. But again, you need to look at the ledger that says zero on one side and negative $163 million before you start making these big changes like that. And now you've stuck Orange County with really an impossible task of making that money up.

WHITFIELD: The last thing anybody wants to do right now is spend more money, right? Or get a bigger bill for anything.

RANDOLPH: That's exactly right. Yes.

WHITFIELD: All right --

RANDOLPH: That's exactly right. And Disney --

WHITFIELD: Go ahead. Sorry. We've got a delay. So I'm sorry. I sometimes step on you.

RANDOLPH: It's all right. And Disney was talking about moving 2,000 more jobs here from California. And I've got to think Disney may reconsider that initiative.

WHITFIELD: I bet a lot of rethinking is going on. Scott Randolph, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

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[10:40:43]

WHITFIELD: On the eve of their Easter celebration, the Russian Orthodox Church is playing an important role in Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine. Its leader is firmly in favor of the war. He has given public blessings to Russian generals and has been using much of the same rhetoric Putin uses to justify the invasion.

Russia expert Tom Nichols writes in "The Atlantic" about his experience of being an Orthodox Christian and watching the Russian Orthodox Church blessing the killing of Orthodox Ukrainians. Tom Nichols is joining me right now. So good to see you. You call Putin's invasion of Ukraine the messianic dreams of a small man, a frightened and delusional thug who believes he is doing God's will. Why does he believe these things?

TOM NICHOLS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, Putin has been surrounded for years now by nationalistic, right-wing figures and clerics and priests in the Russian Orthodox Church, including the Patriarch, who has a long history of being, to put it gently, very comfortable with the security services and with state power.

And was this the Putin of 20 years ago? Hard to say. I think he misses the Soviet Union, but that nostalgia for the Soviet period has translated into this notion goaded on by the people around him that he can restore something even bigger than the Soviet Union. He can put the Russian world back together under the aegis of Orthodox Christianity. And I think he genuinely believes it now.

WHITFIELD: And how did we get here? How did he get to this point? He didn't appear to publicly strengthen his ties until his third term in office. What was the catalyst for this change that you just stated, which really does solidify his power base?

NICHOLS: Yes, that's a great question, Fredricka, and I'm not sure. I think part of it dovetailed with his personal interests of staying in power forever. Once he decided to go for that third term, I think like any gangster boss, he decided that he was safer in power. As Tony Soprano once said, guys like him don't retire. They end up in jail or dead. And I think that was a decision that was made easier by having the church say, your rule, as the Patriarch said, is a miracle of God, and that you deserve to stay in power.

But I also think when the Soviet dream finally ebbed away, and it took years, there was a vacuum in both Putin's regime and Russian society that had to be filled with something else. And I think this messianism that has always been present in Russian culture has now reared its head in this kind of horrific synergy with Soviet imperialism, Russian messianism, and what I, on a personal level, consider to be the hijacking and utter grievous maligning of Orthodoxy as the source of the war.

WHITFIELD: Is it really less about his belief and more about the rhetoric and how this is part of the brainwashing mechanism to lead people to believe that his intentions are all based in religion, and that he's carrying out God's work.

NICHOLS: At some point, it doesn't matter anymore. Kurt Vonnegut, one of my favorite lines from the great writer, Kurt Vonnegut, that we are what we pretend to be, and so we must be careful what we pretend to be. And I think that after enough years with enough people around you, in the bubble that Putin lives in, and that bubble has only gotten worse during COVID where he's been in isolation, I think it's easy to believe that your interests, the interests of the state and the interests of Almighty God himself, are now all in unison, and that you're doing the right think. And I think the inability of the people around him to sway him on any of this, if they tried at all, really, I think, testifies to that.

[10:45:00]

WHITFIELD: And then what's the explanation of the head of the Russian Orthodox church who is willing to call Putin a miracle of God? What's behind that?

NICHOLS: Yes. Kirill has always been ambitious. He likes the good life. The Russian Orthodox Church had to scramble a while back to try to airbrush out the fact that he walks around wearing $30,000 watches. I think this is greed, an appetite for power. And also, there's an internal feud in the Orthodox Church. Remember that a few years ago, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church split away from the Moscow Patriarchy, from Moscow's ecclesiastical control. And Kirill was furious about that. And so Kirill is acting like any other member of the Russian imperialist leadership. The fact that he happens to be a priest and going it under the guise of religion doesn't change the fact that he's basically part of the leadership team that literally has blessed this war.

WHITFIELD: Willing to be bought, willing to be persuaded by gifts or money.

NICHOLS: Well, it's not just being bought. It's that he's a powerful man. He enjoys being a powerful man. He doesn't like that the other Orthodox in Ukraine have broken away from Moscow's control. And I think he believes what Putin believes, that the Russians have a destiny to control the Slavic, Orthodox world. There's no tension between opportunism and deeply held beliefs in this case. Both of those things are at work here.

WHITFIELD: So if Putin is able to use religious as an aspect in starting the war, might that also be the gateway of potentially ending it?

NICHOLS: One would hope. But I think it actually makes it more difficult to end it without some sense of a victory. If you begin a war believing that you are actually doing something that has existential importance, it would almost be easier to end this war if Putin were just making a landgrab or trying to control gas and oil or coal. You can negotiate with someone like that.

I think it's going to make it more difficult for him to climb down after all of this soaring rhetoric about the Slavic world and our brothers and sisters and liberating them from Nazis. It's clearly happening. The Russians have been toning down the rhetoric even while they're amping up the violence. But I think part of the reason that world leaders have found him difficult to talk to about this, and several have -- the Austrian chancellor, the French president, they have all come away saying this guy, you just can't talk to this guy. I think that's part of the reason. This kind of existential belief in his mission is partly what is making this war so difficult to negotiate Russia's way out of.

WHITFIELD: All right, Tom Nichols, thank you so much. Good to talk to you.

NICHOLS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Still ahead, police found multiple guns inside the apartment of the shooting suspect who wounded four people in what they're calling a sniper-type shooting in D.C. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:54]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. The suspect in a shooting rampage that left four people wounded in Washington, D.C., is dead. CNN's Polo Sandoval is live in Washington tracking the developments. So Polo, what are you learning? POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Police have not identified that

suspect that, again, was found inside that apartment. Investigators believe that he took his own life as they were closing in on locations. But really, Fred, just imagine what it was like not far from where I'm standing yesterday afternoon as a gunman took about five stories up basically took aim at the sidewalk below, randomly shooting at people.

Fortunately, though, investigators saying that the three people who were shot are going to be OK. The fourth person who was reportedly just grazed by a bullet also obviously going to be fine. But really, as sort of normalcy has been returning to this neighborhood, a lot of people still grappling with what took place here. The police chief saying that once they made their way in that apartment not only to find the deceased suspect but also what's being described as a sniper- type setup, complete with a tripod, about six different firearms, among them rifles and pistols, and also a large quantity of ammunition. So there's a big question here on investigators' minds as far as what this individual was planning.

In terms of a motive at this point, the police chief here in Washington, D.C., only said that his intent was to kill members of the community, and that pretty much says it all when you look at this method of operation here. But again, looking forward in the coming hours, not only do we hope to get an update on who this individual was who that was found inside, but also what likely compelled him to open fire on random members of this community yesterday afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Polo Sandoval, thank you so much, in Washington.

This programming note, it's the unbelievable true story of the man who took on Putin and lived to expose the truth. The Sundance Award winning CNN film "Navalny" airs tomorrow at 9:00 eastern right here on CNN.

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[10:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remarkably, Vladimir Putin faces a legitimate opponent, Alexei Navalny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want Putin being president. If I want to be a leader of a country, I have to organize people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kremlin hates Navalny so much that they refuse to say his name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Passengers heard Navalny cry out in agony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, poisoned? Seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are creating the coalition to fight this regime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are killed, what message do you leave behind to the Russian people? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very simple. Never give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Navalny," tomorrow at 9:00 on CNN.

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