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Zelenskyy: Blinken & Austin Will Visit Kyiv Sunday; Russian Military Leadership Wants To Control Donbas & Southern Ukraine; Food, Water Nearly Gone At Mariupol Factory-Turned-Civilian Shelter; Russians Rounded Up Ukrainians At Gunpoint, Forced Villagers Into School, Basement; How Effective Are Mask Mandates At This Point In The Pandemic?; FL Gov. Signs Bill Stripping Disney Of Self-Governing Status; Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Grilled On Role In Jan. 6 Attack; New Audio Contradicts McCarthy's Denial He Asked Trump To Resign. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 23, 2022 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:00:37]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.
A stunning new claim tonight from officials in Ukraine. They say they have evidence more than 300 civilians, women, children, people with disabilities, the most vulnerable people, have been shipped off from Mariupol to eastern Russia some 5,000 miles away.
Ukrainian officials say satellite images offer possible evidence of more mass graves right outside of that port city. These images coming to light even as Vladimir Putin proclaims the city has been, quote, "liberated" by Russian forces.
Ukraine's Ministry of Defense claims two more Russian generals have been killed after a strike on the command post in Kherson.
CNN has not yet verified that claim and the Kremlin has not yet commented.
And Ukrainian President Zelenskyy says two top U.S. officials, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, will visit Kyiv Sunday.
Matt Rivers joins me tonight from Kyiv.
Matt, President Zelenskyy speaking about not only high-level visitors from the U.S. but setting the expectation for them not to come empty- handed. What does he want?
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, if there's one thing we know about President Zelenskyy he does not pull any punches about sending very clear and direct messages to leaders about what he wants. In this case, he wants weapons. It's a consistent message and one we
expect him to deliver to Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin when they come here to Kyiv later on today local time.
If President Zelenskyy, if what he said is going to be true, in fact, the two men are coming. We haven't gotten confirmation yet this is happening from the White House and from the State Department and Department of Defense.
But when they have this meeting, it's going to be one where President Zelenskyy makes his request known.
And he was asked, well, why is it important that world leaders come here to Kyiv?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): Why is it important for leaders to come to us? I will give you a pragmatic answer. Because they should not come here with empty hands now. We're waiting not for just presents or cakes. We're expecting specific things and specific weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: Pamela, no detail yet when that meeting will take place in Kyiv, whether we'll hear what was said in that meeting, whether we get any video of that meeting. That's something we'll watch very closely on Sunday.
Meanwhile, during the day on Saturday, more insight into Russia's plans for this second phase of the war.
For the first time publicly, we heard from top Russian military leadership saying not only is the goal to capture and control the Donbas region in the east, where that new offensive has started, but they also said for the first time they want to control southern Ukraine.
And that would include the city of Odessa, a large port city that has largely avoided the kind of bloodshed and violence we're seen in other cities in Ukraine.
And yet today, that was not the case. There was a missile strike there. Russian missiles hitting the city of Odessa, according to Ukraine's government, killing at least eight civilians, including a small child.
Something that President Zelenskyy spoke about during his news conference, Pamela. Actually got visibly choked up. And he says he shares the pain of every Ukrainian parent who's lost a child in this war.
BROWN: It's just awful.
Matt Rivers, thank you so much.
And now to the shattered city of Mariupol, the epicenter of Ukrainian misery right now as we speak.
Vladimir Putin claims the city has been "liberated" by Russian soldiers. But many citizens are still sheltering underground while the city is decimated from above.
CNN's Scott McLean has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over); Satellite images and aerial footage has long shown the scale of the destruction in Mariupol. It is difficult to know the full human cost of the siege.
But now there are new potential clues. New satellite pictures of a cemetery east of Mariupol appear to show freshly dug trenches some 40 meters long. The Mariupol mayor's office says that these are mass graves.
CNN cannot independently verify the claim.
What is not unclear is the dire humanitarian situation inside the city.
(EXPLOSIONS)
UNIDENTIFIED UKRAINIAN SOLDIER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
[20:05:03]
MCLEAN: New video from the Ukrainian military shows women and children taking shelter underneath a steel plant where Ukrainian troops are making their last stand.
Inside, the Russian word for children is spray participated on the walls.
UNIDENTIFIED UKRAINIAN SOLIDER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
MCLEAN: The Ukrainian soldier says he's bringing gifts, candy and some food. The kids explain how they've passed the time.
Many of the women and children are the families of plant workers here, and many have been there for 50 days or more.
UNIDENTIFIED BOY (through translation): I want to get out of here and see the sun. We've been here for two months now, and I want to see the sun. Because they switch the lights on and off here, when they rebuild our houses, we can live in peace.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL (through translation): We all really want to return home. We want to return home alive. We all want to see our parents and families. MCLEAN: There's little hope those wishes will come true anytime soon.
Russian troops have surrounded the complex waiting for Ukrainian soldiers to surrender as food supplies dwindle.
For the rest of Mariupol, a humanitarian corridor opened leading west through Russian-held territory to Ukrainian-held Zaporizhzhia, though the mayor's office says Russians tricked people into boarding buses bound for a town in Russian-occupied territory.
CNN could not immediately verify the progress of evacuation efforts in the city.
In a press conference in a Kyiv underground station, President Zelenskyy proposed a trade with Russia in exchange for Ukrainian civilians trapped in Mariupol.
ZELENSKYY (through translation): We offer civilized people. We suggest humanitarian solution to the situation. We offer exchange of civilians. We offer exchange of the wounded.
MCLEAN: Zelenskyy says he's willing to meet with Putin but promised peace talks would be abandoned if Ukrainians in Mariupol are killed.
Scott McClain, CNN, Lviv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Mariupol doesn't have a lock on misery. CNN's Ed Lavandera takes us to a tiny village about two hours north of Kyiv where the townspeople were kept in a school basement for weeks on end, human shields for the Russian army.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): War stopped time here. Bombs and artillery scorched this village in northern Ukraine. Russian occupation ravaged the minds of its people.
The story of what happened in Yahidne is just emerging, revealing how the Russian army held this village hostage for more than 30 days.
Sofia shows us the underground bunker in her shed where she first hid from the fighting. She said she had food stored here that the Russians ate. This is where she slept.
Sofia says Russian soldiers went door to door rounding people up and taking them at gunpoint into the basement of the village school.
(on camera): Sofia tells us that when the Russian soldiers moved them all into the basement of the school building, they were put down there and the soldiers told them they were being put in the basement to die.
(voice-over): A woman named Natalie took us into the basement where she was trapped.
"I was in a stupor," Natalie tells me. "I was sitting there, praying, hoping it would all stop soon."
(on camera): Residents tell us there were about 350 people held hostage in the basement of this school building. Men, women and children forced to live in these horrific conditions.
In fact, it was so strangulating, there were so little air circulation that one resident told us that 12 elderly people died here because they couldn't breathe. And their bodies were left while the fighting raged outside.
(voice-over): These are some of the only known images captured in the school's basement. The faces say it all.
(on camera): She's telling me that about 35 people slept in this small room. Nobody could lay down. They slept kind of sitting with their knees against their chest.
(voice-over): The rooms are littered with makeshift beds, schoolbooks, and Russian troop meal boxes. But it is the art on the walls that stops you in your tracks. This is how the children passed the time, colorful drawings on a canvas of anguish.
(on camera): The people who were trapped down here etched names on to this concrete wall. They marked the days with a calendar, crossing out the days as they went by.
Everything down here has the feel of a World War II-era concentration camp.
(voice-over): Above the basement, Russian soldiers took over the school building. Residents say they were used as human shields. They knew the Ukrainian military wouldn't fire at the school with civilians inside.
[20:10:01]
Olena grabs food from a humanitarian delivery truck and takes us to her home.
Russian soldiers threw grenades through her windows and defecated on the house floors. She was also held hostage in the school basement with her 1-year-old daughter.
(on camera): Did you think you were going to survive that?
(voice-over): "I thought my child would not survive," she tells me. "I asked them to let me out so the child could breathe fresh air because she felt bad. They said let her die. We don't care."
(on camera): Sofia, how did you feel when you got out of the basement of the school?
(voice-over): She says one of the villagers open the basement door and said the Russians left. The trapped villagers were surprised.
"In the morning, our guys entered the village," she said. "We cried. We hugged them and cried."
(on camera): What will you tell your daughter about this experience?
(voice-over): "Nothing," she says. Her daughter will not remember it and she will tell her nothing.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Yahidne, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Unimaginable what these people have been through.
Thank you, Ed, for that reporting.
Still ahead this hour, Disney versus DeSantis. Could the Magic Kingdom really quit Florida if it loses its special status? I'll ask "Miami Herald" capitol bureau chief, Mary Ellen Klas.
Also tonight, the terrifying moment a runaway tractor-trailer almost slams into a school bus. Such a lucky escape for everyone onboard.
But before all of that, with all the confusion this week on wearing masks, we've got two doctors ready to debate the science on their effectiveness, and they join me next. You don't want to miss that.
We'll be right back.
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[20:15:47]
BROWN: There's now one less item you need to remember to bring if you fly if you so choose and that would be a mask. When a federal judge struck down a federal transportation mask mandate some travelers immediately rejoiced. Others remained cautious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody is still getting sick. There's still cases, so I'm going to try to protect myself as much as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sitting in an airplane with masks on was really kind of frustrating, so I'm so glad that they're gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The Justice Department is now suing to reinstate the mandate, sparking a nationwide patchwork of mask rules at airports and transportation hubs.
All of this raising the question: Have mask mandates run their course, or is it still too soon to say?
Joining me now are two public health experts with two very different answers to that question. Dr. Saju Mathew is a primary care physician and public health specialist. And Dr. Jeanne Noble is the director of COVID response at the University of California, San Francisco.
Great to see you both. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedules to have this important discussion, debate, whatever you want to call it.
Dr. Mathew, I'm going to go to you first because you have been critical over the decision to overturn the CDC's mask extension. Why is that?
DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN & PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Yes. Hi, Pamela.
Hi, Dr. Noble.
Listen, I think my biggest gripe is how it was done. Where is CDC? CDC has been largely silent behind the DOJ saying, hey, this is not a good idea, we need to reinstate mask mandates.
I would rather have this come from the CDC, from a scientific organization, from the world headquarters of the pandemic rather than a judge in Florida.
And to lift a mask mandate in the midst of a surge. Cases are still going up, we're grossly undercounting cases.
The good news is, yes, hospitalizations are down and deaths are significantly down. But we are still in the pandemic. And I think that a mask is one of very many tools.
So I don't want to overstate the use of a mask but wearing a good N-95 mask, a KN-95 mask goes a long way.
And, yes, people will say, Dr. Mathew, why are you making a big deal? You can still wear a mask. That's true. That's my personal choice. But two-way masking is best compared to one-way masking.
BROWN: So, Dr. Noble, what do you have to say to what Dr. Mathew argued there?
Does it make sense to stop masking at a time when we're seeing an increase in spread throughout much of the country, not necessarily in hospitalizations, although we have seen in an increase in some states. But just the surge going on and the increase in cases and so forth.
What do you think?
DR. JEANNE NOBLE, DIRECTOR OF COVID RESPONSE, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN FRANCISO EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT: Right. I think at this stage in the pandemic, we really do need to get away from case counts. And in the vast majority of the states in this country, hospitalizations remain low and are falling.
It's a question of when to pull back these mandates. And the mask mandate in public transportation was due to expire in just two-weeks' time. So this may be a little bit formulaic in our discussion.
But mask mandates, public health mandates in general to have a toll. Living in this chronic hypervigilance and fear is not good.
So to impose a mandate, to require something like masks, it needs to be effective and those mandates need to be consistent. And a mask mandate in public transportation really, I think, fails those criteria.
It's OK to attend an indoor basketball game with 20,000 other cheering spectators without a mask, but then when you get on a very well- ventilated airplane, you're mandated to put on a mask.
And I think the average citizen finds that to be a bit inconsistent. And that can erode our faith in our public health officials.
And then the second piece, is this mandate effective? And pre-COVID, we had a good agreement in the scientific community the scientific data are controlled trials, when we have a control group.
[20:20:01]
And we just have two studies of masks with control groups for COVID. One of them was negative. It didn't show a benefit for surgical masks. And the other showed a very modest benefit.
About 7 percent of mask wearers develop symptomatic COVID during the period of use versus 8 percent of the maskless developing COVID. So these are small benefits.
And I think that a mandate requiring people to be masked really should meet a higher standard than that.
And the lack of a mandate doesn't mean you're forbidden to wear masks.
It can create this false sense of reinsurance for people to have cloth masks or surgical masks below their noses rather than a high-grade N- 95 respirator, that we would really like to see our most vulnerable wear when they're in high-risk situations.
BROWN: And that was a lot to unpack there. But I want to home in on one thing you said there.
And feel free to respond to what you would like, Dr. Mathew.
But, Dr. Mathew, what Dr. Noble was saying about the inconsistency, you know, when there was a mandate on transportation having to wear a mask on a plane -- for example, I had to wear a mask on a plane flying down -- I went to New Orleans for the NCAA championship game with Carolina, my alma mater, and Kansas.
So wore masks down there and then in this crowded arena where no one was wearing a mask.
So I think that's when you were trying to get to, Dr. Noble.
Would do you have to say about the inconsistency there. And would you like to see a mask mandate in place for those situations, too, Dr. Mathew? MATHEW: Well, you know, like I said earlier, Pamela, I think that
masks is just one of very many tools. I would rather us talk about vaccines and making sure people have received their first booster shot.
People 65 and older, about 20 million, have not gotten their booster shot. Let's talk about those as well.
But masks is just another layer. For instance, I'm taking my parents to Mexico in a couple of weeks. My parents are older. Of course, now with the lifting of the mask mandates, of course, I'm a little bit more worried that we need to raise our game.
My parents are over the age of 70, so I'm going to have them wear an N-95. An N-95 where people haven't worn it for four, five hours straight is not very convenient.
And I do agree with most of what Dr. Noble said. But just because a young guy decides, hey, I'm going to live a pre-pandemic life, I'm going to go to a football game, and then I'm going to sit next to this older 75-year-old female, I think your risk goes up higher.
And now into the pandemic two years later, it's all about a viral load. And when you board a plane, it's that preboarding, and right before you get off the flight. That is when the risk is the highest.
So I think that the viral load will be higher. And if 90 percent of people in the plane are not masked, then, yes, your risk is higher than it was before the mask mandates were lifted.
BROWN: What do you think about that, Dr. Noble, the unique circumstances of being on a plane, for example, sitting close to others where the air is recirculating who might put, you know, a more vulnerable person at risk if they're not wearing a mask?
NOBLE: Well, this really gets to my previous point about cloth and surgical masks really creating a false sense of reassurance.
So I think, Dr. Mathew, having the -- changing the perspective because there's no mask mandate now, he will have his older parents use an N- 95 is actually a perfect example of that. They will be much safer with an N-95.
And I agree they are not comfortable. I mean, I have to wear them for hours on end. But they offer a lot more protection.
So the idea that they would be adequately protected because other people on the plane were wearing cloth masks below their noses is just not borne out by the data.
And so if we -- if we let go of that idea and think, OK, well, my risk tolerance is then -- I want my parents to wear an N-95, I think that's a step in the right direction. It's a more realistic assessment of the risk that is or is not there.
BROWN: Very quickly -- and Dr. Mathew, I know you said you would still wear a mask.
But, Dr. Noble, if you were to fly today, would you wear a mask on a plane now that the mandate isn't in effect right now?
NOBLE: I would not. You know, I'm fully vaccinated and boosted. My risk of getting seriously ill or hospitalized or dying from COVID is quite low.
And I am ready. I am ready to move on and to start attending to see many of the unmet health care mental health needs that we have really let slide during this pandemic.
And I think the masks do signal this perpetual state of vigilance that I would really like to get away from.
BROWN: All right --
(CROSSTALK)
MATHEW: May I just jump in really quickly?
BROWN: Yes, go for it. Yes.
[20:25:00]
MATHEW: So what we haven't talked about is also long COVID. I'm seeing a lot of patients at work. A 55-year-old marathon runner who got COVID four months ago that still has symptoms of shortness of breath through cardiac rehab.
So if you get even a mild infection, despite being vaccinated, you're still at risk of long COVID.
We're in a very different stage of the pandemic. People aren't necessarily dying if you're vaccinated and boosted.
But long COVID is still a risk. And if you're not masked and people around you are not masked that risk is also higher.
BROWN: And that's why you said you should also not ignore case counts because, you know, even though it's obviously worse being hospitalized to die from this, people can have it and have long COVID even if their case is mild.
Thank you so much. That was such an interesting discussion. And it was really great to hear your points of view. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Saju Mathew and Dr. Jeanne Noble, thank you again.
MATHEW: Thank you, Pamela.
NOBLE: Thanks so much for having us.
BROWN: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is taking on Disney. He signed a new law removing the company's self-governing status around Disney World. But it leaves taxpayers with more than a billion dollars of Disney's debt.
"The Miami Harold's" capitol bureau chief joins me live to explain why this is happening, up next.
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[20:30:49]
BROWN: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, this week, signed a bill stripping Walt Disney World special self-governing and tax status. That came after the company opposed a new state law cracking down on teaching or even talking about sexuality in schools. Critics call it the, Don't Say Gay law.
DeSantis and other outraged Republicans say Disney and other supporters are trying to attack them with a, quote, woke agenda.
Joining me to talk about it. Mary Ellen Klas, the Florida Capitol Bureau Chief for the Miami Herald. Hi, thanks for joining us. So this move by DeSantis will have clearly a big impact on taxes around the area. So tell us about what the implications are, the ripple effects from this move.
MARY ELLEN KLAS, FLORIDA CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF, MIAMI HERALD: Well, the legislature really moved quickly on this bill. The governor announced the legislation on Tuesday, the -- they were in special session and the committee. Two committees passed it and, you know, by the end of the week, it was signed into law.
But because of the speed with which they did this, there wasn't a lot of deliberation about the impact. And so they have given themselves one year before this actually takes effect. So that there are so many unanswered questions. Number one is there is -- the Disney itself has about a billion dollars in debt, as part of its, you know, just infrastructure and servicing that debt is normally paid for with its revenue stream.
Well, if this special taxing district, which is the governing structure that the legislature has just announced that it wants repealed, if that's dismantled, somebody has to pay for these -- this unpaid for debt. The property appraiser -- sorry, the tax collector for Orange County, has said that that could be -- would have to be assumed by local residents.
Now, the legislature is pushing back and the governor has said, well, Disney has assets. And, of course, we will use the -- we will sell those assets or use those assets to pay this debt service. That seems like a giant task ahead. And it's really -- nobody seems to have a clear sense as to how -- what are the implications of all this, and how far the legislature is really willing to go.
In many ways, it was really, I think, intended to send a very loud message. And it's worked pretty effectively, because as you see, we're talking about it. And the message I think Governor wants to send is, you know, don't criticize our policies. But, of course, formally, you know, when he -- when he says, why is he doing this, he said this change, the Disney status came about because a special district was an unfair entity that needed to be addressed, despite the fact that it has been in place for nearly 50 years. And he also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): You're a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you're going to marshal your economic might to attack the parents of my state, we view that as a provocation and we're going to fight back against that. I don't think Walt would appreciate what's going on in this company right now. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So is this status change a long overdue change or revenge and punishment for opposing the Don't Say Gay Bill? And, of course, the big question is will Disney move out of Florida?
KLAS: You know, I think that's a -- that is just such a long shot. Number one, the question of whether or not this was a long overdue, you know, review. The legislature has a lot of oversight and a lot of oversight authority. And it has never suggested that it needs to look at this particular special taxing district.
There are over 1,800 special taxing districts in Florida. There is a very large criticism of how these things have been, you know, assembled over the years and the special privileges many of these taxing districts have the legislature has been asked by many advocates for years to take a look at these, see what kinds of special privileges and how fair it is that the legislature has been very reluctant to do it.
In fact, Disney has been one of the largest contributors to legislative campaign coffers. They hold their annual Republican and Democratic conventions on Disney property. They have special campaign fundraising.
[20:35:34]
Disney and the legislature are very closely entwined. And it's been that way for decades. So this idea that all of a sudden they're doing some oversight that they have neglected, is really hard to fathom. So even this House sponsor of the bill acknowledged that if Disney hadn't been so outspoken with its position on the legislation that the -- what's known as the parental rights and education bill, also known as the Don't Say Gay Bill, they acknowledge that if Disney hadn't kind of provoked them, this may not have happened.
BROWN: Promote them by taking a stance against the bill. All right now, Mary Ellen Klas, thank you so much.
KLAS: Thank you.
BROWN: House Republican Leader, Kevin McCarthy, denied saying that he was going to ask then President Trump to resign, but now, there was a recording that has surfaced. The latest on the fallout from the January 6 insurrection, up next.
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[20:40:11]
BROWN: Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene fighting to stay on the ballot, the Georgia Republican testifying during the hearing on whether she should be barred from running for office over her alleged role in the January 6 insurrection.
CNN's Marshall Cohen was there in court when she took the stand, hen he breaks down for us what happened.
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Pamela Good evening. This is all about accountability for January 6. The group's trying to disqualify Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, say that she can't run for reelection in Georgia because of a constitutional ban against insurrectionists holding office.
That issue was front and center at a hearing Friday in Downtown Atlanta in an extraordinary marathon session. Greene took the stand for more than three hours making her the first member of Congress to answer questions under oath about January 6.
But she did not say all that much, there was a lot of, I don't know, and I don't remember, she claimed that she could not recall saying that she oppose the peaceful transfer of power to President Biden. And her testimony did not establish that she had direct coordination with any of the rioters. That's a major home the challenger's case. Take a listen to part of her testimony from the hearing on Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CELLI, ATTORNEY: Prior to January 6, Representative Greene, did anyone ever mentioned to you the possibility that there might be violence in Washington on January 6, 2021?
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I don't remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: Later, Greene was confronted with her own words when lawyers for the challengers tried to connect her rhetoric with the violence on January 6, among other things, they cited a Facebook post that she wants liked, which called for the assassination of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Greene said on the stand that she has no idea who liked that post.
Now, Pam, it will be an uphill climb for the challengers to succeed. And the judge appeared skeptical of some of their arguments. He's expected to issue his recommendation in the next few weeks. And that recommendation will be taken out by Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, who will decide if Greene stays on the ballot. The primary election here in Georgia is on May 24th. Pam. BROWN: Thanks, Marshall.
Well, Kevin McCarthy is doing damage control tonight. Newly released audio tapes by the New York Times revealed the top House Republican considered asking then President Trump to resign in the days after the January 6 attack. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The only discussion I would have with him is that I think this will pass and it would be my recommendation that he should resign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: CNN's Melanie Zanona is with me now. So, Melanie, McCarthy's office, as we know, he denied, considered asking Trump to resign. Then the receipt showed up, the tapes. How is he responding now?
MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, he didn't speak out. We asked his office multiple times. Why did you lie about this when clearly there were tapes showing you did say this? He finally did break his silence last night. He didn't really have a good explanation.
Basically, what he said was I never asked Trump to resign, which of course, the New York Times has never reported that and no one reported that. And he said basically, he was just walking through scenarios of potential options of what could happen in Trump's fate and those immediate days after January 6.
But look, I mean, it's -- we can't gloss over how significant and damning this is for Kevin McCarthy and the immediate days after January 6, not only did he say that he was going to ask the president then president to resign. But he also said, I've had it with this guy. He's to blame, at least in part for this deadly attack on the Capitol.
And as we know, it didn't take long for him to go back to try to suck up to Trump and get back in his good graces. He's fully embraced Donald Trump since then, and he will support him if Trump does run for president in 2024.
BROWN: We're just getting some sad news and to CNN, former Utah Senator, Orrin Hatch, has died at the age of 88. He was the longest serving Republican senator, retired in 2019, of course, Mitt Romney took his seat. Really, you know, someone very well known in Republican circles. I mean, if you lived in Washington covered the hill, you knew Orrin Hatch.
[20:45:20]
ZANONA: Absolutely. And he's responsible for passing a lot of legislation into law. He was the head of multiple committees throughout his tenure, including the Finance Committee at a time when Republicans did pass the 2017 GOP tax law, which was a significant achievement for the Republican Party. He also -- a lot of people don't know this. He was a composer. He loved to play music. Some of his songs are featured in movies like Ocean 13, Ocean 12. And he was just a statesman. He was very loved on Capitol Hill, he's very known. He's kind of this bygone era that we see on Capitol Hill where he was establishment. He worked across the aisle and he was very well liked by both sides.
BROWN: Yes. I mean, 42 years serving in the Senate, just think about how long that is.
ZANONA: That's an incredibly long time, right?
BROWN: Absolutely. Yes, we were just learning tonight the sad news. So anything else that you're learning about it?
ZANONA: Well, we just learned this news tonight, you know, we'll see whether there are arrangements made on Capitol Hill. Sometimes when lawmakers, even ones that are retired passed away, they will have some sort of arrangements. I'm sure, even if they're not lying in state situation that lawmakers will make an effort to go to wherever his funeral services are.
BROWN: Yes. All right. Thank you so much, Melanie. Appreciate it, and of course, we will keep you updated on this unfolding story. And we'll be right back.
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[20:50:00]
BROWN: A gripping three days of testimony in Johnny Depp's defamation suit against Amber Heard and included allegations of threats, violence, and drug use. CNN's Polo Sandoval has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Three straight days of testimony this week paint a disturbing picture of the relationship between actors Johnny Depp and ex-wife, Amber Heard. Depp has been on the witness stand as part of week-two of his defamation trial against Heard.
The Pirates of the Caribbean star suing Heard for $50 million dollars in a Virginia court over a 2018 Washington Post opinion piece. In it, Heard wrote about her experience with domestic abuse. Though Depp was not named in the piece, the actor claims it caused him financial losses.
JOHNNY DEPP, AMERICAN ACTOR: I felt the responsibility of clearing the record.
SANDOVAL: This week, Depp told the jury his romance with Heard was seemingly perfect early on. But the relationship became volatile and quickly hit bottom after they married. Depp denied various allegations from her that he physically harmed her in 2015. DEPP: There were arguments and things of that nature but never did I myself reached the point of striking Ms. Heard in any way, nor have I ever struck any woman in my life.
SANDOVAL: He also testified that he was the one subjected to mental and physical abuse.
DEPP: It could begin with a slap, it could begin with a shove, it could begin with, you know, throwing T.V. remote at my head, it could be throwing a glass of wine in my face.
SANDOVAL: Depp testified that on one occasion in 2015, Heard threw a vodka bottle at him severing his fingertip, which she has denied. And then during a separate incident, she put out a cigarette on his face.
On Thursday, though, Heard's attorney attempted to cast a different light on the Oscar nominated actor using his history of substance abuse.
BEN ROTTENBORN, AMBER HEARD'S ATTORNEY: And you would sometimes drink whiskey in the mornings too, right? During this time period.
DEPP: You know, I mean? Isn't happy hour anytime?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of your good friends that you've taken drugs with before is Marilyn Manson, right?
DEPP: We've had cocaine together maybe a couple of times.
SANDOVAL: Testimony turned even more crude when the defense use steps text messages to a friend to show rage towards her.
ROTTENBORN: After you said, let's drown her before we burn her, Mr. Depp you said, I will (BLEEP) her burned corpse afterwards to make sure she is dead.
SANDOVAL: And this video showing an irate Depp was played in court Thursday by the defense.
DEPP: Oh, you're crazy.
SANDOVAL: Depp responded saying he did not assault her during the recorded tirade.
SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's evidence on both sides that they have also perpetrated domestic violence. So at the end of the day, this jury is going to be tasked with deciding is this relationship of mutual combat and how does that impact her statement in this op-ed that she's merely a victim of domestic violence that sounds like we have to perpetrators.
SANDOVAL: The jury heads back to court on Monday to hear more testimony. Heard is yet to take the stand in her own defense.
Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
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BROWN: Breaking news this hour, longtime Utah Senator, Orrin Hatch, has died at the age of 88. Much more in his life and legacy, ahead.
And then Ukrainian officials say they have evidence of more mass graves outside Mariupol. We're going to show you the satellite images. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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[20:55:29]
BROWN: Tonight, terrifying video shows an Ohio school bus narrowly avoiding being slammed by a tractor trailer.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move (INAUDIBLE)
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BROWN: Oh, scary. Gosh. It happened on Tuesday, as the bus was stopping to pick up kids. That horn coming from a massive tractor trailer barreling towards them unable to stop.
But look at this, a quick thinking pickup driver manages to back up into the SUV behind him, that move creating enough extra space for the tractor trailer to maneuver around the bus and avoid hitting anyone. Amazing.
The pickup driver now being held a hero.
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JOSH CLICK, DRIVER OF PICKUP TRUCK THAT HELPED PREVENT ACCIDENT: I look up and I realized there was a tractor trailer heading down my way head on. I had to do what I had to do to protect myself and the kids. It was one of those moments where you realize things can happen in an instant.
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BROWN: The big rig driver was unable to -- was able to stop about a quarter mile down the road. Later telling police his brakes had gone out.
The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.
