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Blinken, Austin Meet Zelenskyy in Kyiv as Russian Attacks Intensify; Blinken Says Russia's War Goals in Ukraine Have Already Failed; Russian Shelling Continues in Kharkiv; Defense Secretary Says Ukraine Can Win with Right Equipment and Support. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 25, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

BERMAN: So those are the five things to know for your NEW DAY. More on these stories all day on CNN and CNN.com, and don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to CNN.com/5things. One mile to go.

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BERMAN: CNN's coverage continues now.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Two months since the start of Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and overnight the first high-level visit to Ukraine by U.S. officials, meeting President Zelenskyy in the country's capital.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto reporting from Lviv, in western Ukraine.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, the nation's top diplomat and top civilian military official, delivering a one-two punch to show of support to Ukraine. They promised a U.S. diplomatic presence will return to Ukraine this week. Blinken says that Russia's war objectives in the country have, quote, "already failed," while Austin declared Ukrainians can still win this war and stated publicly for the first time that the U.S. intends to, quote, "weaken Russia," so it cannot invade again.

While top U.S. officials were in Kyiv, Russian forces attacked at least five railway stations here in the western part of the country. Ukraine says that Russia is trying to systematically destroy its railway infrastructure which has been so key of course, Bianna, in getting refugees out and weapons in.

GOLODRYGA: And there have been deadly attacks against that infrastructure over the course of this war. In the east, meantime, officials say almost the entire Luhansk region is now without water. Tens of thousands are also without power as Russia intensifies its attacks on the Donbas. In Mariupol, Russia is claiming to offer a ceasefire so civilians barricaded at the Azovstal steel plant can't evacuate. However, Ukraine says no humanitarian corridors have been agreed upon there just yet.

And breaking overnight, a fuel depot inside Russia is on fire. Right now the cause of that fire remains unclear.

SCIUTTO: CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood, she joins us now from the State Department. Let's begin, though, with CNN international correspondent Matt Rivers. He is in Kyiv.

Matt, this is a visit that Ukrainian officials including the president had been calling for, for some time from the U.S. It has now come. Both Blinken and Austin. I'm curious how Ukrainian officials are reacting to it this morning.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: With gratitude, no question about that. There is a very positive reaction that we're hearing from Ukrainian officials including from President Zelenskyy himself who issued a statement after the meeting, thanking both men for coming, personally thanking President Biden for what he called the United States' unprecedented support for Ukraine and also thanking, quote, "the American people as well as Congress for their bipartisan support."

He says we see it and we feel it. So Ukrainian officials clearly very happy that this meeting took place. And a meeting that, frankly, they had wanted to have happen for a long time now after a series of other leaders from U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson to the leaders of Eastern European countries had come here to Kyiv. Clearly this was a meeting that Ukrainian officials wanted to see happen.

Not only that but also what we heard from these U.S. officials, including Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin who basically said that they believe that Ukraine can win and the United States is going to do everything they can to get them the kind of weapons they need in order to be able to do so with the point of trying to avoid happening in the east what has happened to certain towns around Kyiv.

Yesterday we visited and we can show you some video of a town, a suburb northwest of Kyiv where Russian forces got very close during the battle of Kyiv and we just saw that unprecedented destruction, and what clearly the United States is trying to do is give Ukraine the weapons so that other towns don't fall to the same fate as that village did. And when it comes to getting those weapons into Ukraine, in fighters' hands, Jim, a bit of news here with several train stations, as you mentioned off the top, being struck by Russian missiles earlier today.

The question now being, does Russia targeting that kind of infrastructure hurt the ability of the United States and other allies to get Ukrainian soldiers the weapons they so desperately need.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The Russian defense forces there and the Kremlin have both warned twice now the U.S. to stop providing weaponry to Ukraine. And yet it continues.

Kylie, Secretary Antony Blinken declared that Russia's efforts, despite the ongoing shelling in Ukraine, have been a failure. That was clearly a deliberately worded assessment. What's behind the calculation behind it?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, listen, Bianna, some significant messages coming out from Blinken and Austin today with Austin saying that the United States wants Russia weakened at the end of this fight.

[09:05:06]

And that's the first time that we have really heard U.S. official discuss the long-term prospects that they want Russia to face as a result of this failed invasion into Ukraine. But of course, it starts with the invasion itself, with this war. And it's clear that the Biden administration does feel that Ukraine can win. Secretary of Defense Austin said that they have the will and they have the capabilities to do so with the U.S. continuing to provide that support.

And the Biden administration feels that Ukraine is well on its way to winning because they have already had these victories and because they haven't allowed Russia to completely overtake the country as was their motivation. Listen to what Blinken said on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Russia has sought as its principal aim to totally subjugate Ukraine, to take away its sovereignty, to take away its independence. That has failed. It sought to assert the power of its military and its economy. We of course are seeing just the opposite. The military that is dramatically underperforming, an economy as a result of sanctions, as a result of a mass exodus from Russia, that is in shambles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Of course, the fight in the east between Russia and Ukraine isn't anywhere near over. And some would say the worst is yet to come, but a clear message of positivity from those top Biden administration officials as they visited Ukraine over the weekend -- Bianna.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And you could say it is a shift, right, because weakening Russia would seem to be an offensive objective here as opposed to just a defensive one helping Ukraine defend itself. We'll certainly be discussing that further in this broadcast.

Matt Rivers, Kylie Atwood, thanks very much.

Defense Secretary Austin has promised to get Ukrainians what they need to win this war. Those weapons we've been seeing going in at an accelerating pace, frankly -- Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Over $3 billion since the war began. Now this is all critical as Russian forces continue to fire on civilian infrastructure.

Chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward was on the ground in Kharkiv and filed this report for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is what they're up against. And I want to take you around so you can get a feel for the full scale of the damage that was done here when two massive missiles landed in and around this building last month. You can see just out, what's left of the window there. That is Freedom Square. And this city has been getting pulverized day in, day out.

Just today we have heard a pretty much constant stream of bombardment since about 4:30 in the morning. Often it goes on all night. And the mayor here says that 25 percent of the buildings in this city have been hit during strikes. 25 percent. Just try to get your head around the enormity of that figure. 67 schools have been hit. Look at this. This was once a palatial grand staircase. Now completely destroyed.

According to authorities, only 10 people were killed here, which is extraordinary, although I've just been talking with one of the soldiers who's in charge of looking after this space, and he says they believe there are many more dead under the rubble. I'm going to show you what some of that rubble looks like over here. And what people here fear in this city is that Kharkiv could be the next Mariupol because of the amount of bombardment and the real intensification that we've seen of that bombardment, especially in the last week.

Now I just want cameraman Scottie McWhinnie and producer Brent Swails to be a little careful here. But I do want to show you this because it gives you a real feeling for just the enormity of that blast. I mean, absolutely astonishing. It literally took out six stories. And that's why, as you can probably imagine, we're hearing from authorities here that they do believe some people are still trapped under that rubble, but that it is just simply impossible for them at this stage with bombardment continuing day in and day out in this city, for them to try to dig down underneath that and get a sense of just how many people may have lost their lives here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Clarissa Ward with that report.

Joining me now to discuss Ukraine's reaction, particularly to the U.S. visit, Iuliia Mendel, Ukrainian journalist, former spokesperson for President Zelenskyy.

[09:10:01]

Good to have you on this morning.

IULIIA MENDEL, UKRAINIAN JOURNALIST: Thank you, Jim, for having me.

SCIUTTO: The president has been calling for some time for a senior U.S. official or officials to visit. Other heads of state have visited so far. The U.S. has now come here. What's the importance of that in your view?

MENDEL: Jim, that visit was crucially important for Ukraine. First let me say that the war is still ongoing. We've seen yesterday and today that air strikes have been not only in the eastern south but also in central Ukraine and western Ukraine. And here we see that top officials of such high level come through all Ukraine on the train, as they said, and coming to Kyiv to show their support. This is super high level of support.

And the second what was very important for every Ukrainian, actually we celebrated the Orthodox Easter yesterday. And it was like one of the biggest religious holidays here in Ukraine, when Ukrainians expecting blessings. I didn't want to put this in some religious way, but for people it was very important to see that top officials of such high-level travel here on this day, on this holiday, you know, to show their support. So every Ukrainian was really following this visit.

SCIUTTO: I went to an Easter mass here yesterday and saw folks doing their best to celebrate, even in the midst of everything. I wonder, do you see the missile strikes that we saw around Lviv last night and elsewhere in the western part of this country, virtually at the same time as Austin and Blinken were leaving the country. Do you -- does that strike you as deliberate by Russia to send a message?

MENDEL: Well, Russia always tries to send a message and we're sure that it was trying to show its brutal force by striking all over Ukraine, right? We have not heard actually strikes around Lviv and western Ukraine in several days before yesterday, and today's morning, right? So, of course, Russia tried to show how brutal force -- what brutal force it has and how it can move forward with air strikes and invading Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: There's been a noticeable change for me on my second trip here. The change in language, but I would also say confidence to some degree among Ukrainian officials, Ukrainian forces and even you heard it echoed by Austin and Blinken yesterday from, we're doing our best to defend ourselves, we need immediate help just to survive, to now, we can win this war. Do you find that shift as well? And do you think something has changed?

MENDEL: I think we have more hope right now because one thing to hope and you are struggling to fight back and to defend yourself. Other when you have already some victories. And the battle around Kyiv, it was the victory. Now we know that we have all the capacities and the whole civilized world around us to stand to the very end. We are very hopeful.

And we want to get all our territories and to fight back for our people. You know, to celebrate actually our independence and democracy here. SCIUTTO: You know, as well as others, that the war goes on and there's

still a tremendous amount of Russian fighting power. And we're seeing it being used in the east, and often with ruthlessness and attacks on civilian areas. There's part of the Russian playbook that we're seeing repeated now or talked about in your hometown of Kherson. And that is the idea, take over the town militarily and then hold a referendum in which the people joyfully welcome Russian support and declare themselves part of Russia or desiring Russia's control.

MENDEL: Jim, this is --

SCIUTTO: Do you worry about the same thing --

MENDEL: This is my hometown. And let me be frank, there is no one to support there this referendum. There will no be people joyfully going to vote there. People of Kherson region showed already that they stand for Ukraine. They were protesting unarmed against armed soldiers of Russia. They were shot actually there. They were wounded people just for standing there with flags of Ukraine and saying, we are Ukraine.

And there is no people who want really to go there, except of course we believe that Russian cameras will be there and try to film, you know, someone voting. And we know that definitely Russia always make this fake voting with 80 percent, 90 percent of either joining Russia or making some pseudo fake republic. But let me --

SCIUTTO: It's always a very high percentage. It's like Saddam Hussein's Iraqi. You know, 98 percent of people support my position.

MENDEL: Yes. Yes.

SCIUTTO: You worked for the president. You're a journalist. You've faced many of your own ricks. Your fiance is facing quite severe risk now having joined the fight against them. You wrote in "The Washington Post" about this. Do you still hear from him?

MENDEL: He returned a few days ago.

SCIUTTO: Fantastic.

MENDEL: It was such a relief for me because I was checking the telephone every five minutes because he was losing the connection and I was getting these messages after battles how he was going through, you know, that he was shot -- like, I mean, the team that was going there, it was under shelling, how difficult it was. It's enormously difficult to go through understanding that he is there and there is no any guarantee that he will survive.

[09:15:02]

And I'm sure this is the fate of so many females here. But I want to add a personal story, personal touch about Kherson region there. I've got a call the other day from a person whom I cannot name. She's the elder female and she used to have quite nostalgia about the USSR. And she told me that she believes that Biden, actually Joe Biden, the American president, promised that America will help Ukraine to return all the territories, including Kherson region.

I have not heard this from Biden. And I don't know where she read this from. You know, there is so much news around. But this shows such a critical, crucial shift in ideology. When a person who used to have nostalgia about the USSR now praises the American president and believes and has trust that the United States will help Ukraine to regain all their independence and all the territories --

SCIUTTO: That's a remarkable shift.

MENDEL: In terms of international recognized territory.

SCIUTTO: Well, you wonder how many other minds are being changed, all that we've seen and continue to see on the ground here.

Iuliia Mendel, we're glad you're safe, we're glad your husband is safe as well.

MENDEL: Jim, thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much. I should say fiance. You're not married yet but I'm glad your fiance is safe.

MENDEL: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, we will speak to a retired general about how Ukraine could possibly achieve a military victory here. Plus the French president easily wins another term, fending off a far-right challenger who had ties to Putin. What this means for Europe's response to Russia's war in Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: And this morning the New York attorney general will argue to have a judge hold former President Trump in contempt and a look at the possible consequences he faces.

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[09:21:11]

SCIUTTO: Tomorrow Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin will meet with ministers of defense and senior military leaders and officials from around the world. This discussion about the next round of military and financial aid for Ukraine as the invasion continues here. After meeting with President Zelenskyy on Sunday, Secretary Austin said this morning that he believes Ukraine can win this war against Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: In terms of our variability to win, the first step in winning is believing that you can win. And so they believe that we can win. We believe that we can win -- they can win, if they have the right equipment, the right support. And we're going to do everything we can, continue to do everything we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GOLODRYGA: Let's bring in Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, former army commanding general for Europe and the Seventh Army, and CNN military analyst, and Steve Hall, former CIA chief of Russia operations and a CNN national security analyst.

Welcome, both of you. General, let me begin with you. A remarkable shift in language that we're seeing now from the U.S. administration, consider where things stood over two months ago leading into this war. Now you have the defense secretary saying that he believes that Ukraine can win.

Talk about what's led up to that assessment. I mean, you've got eight to 10 cargo flights of weaponry coming in from the U.S. each day now. And the U.S. saying -- and the defense secretary saying that more Ukrainian troops will be trained by U.S. troops in Eastern European countries.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Early on, Bianna, there was a huge push toward those individual weapon systems that would help Ukraine put up an initial defense. They showed themselves capable of that. Many of us believed that that was going to be the case all along. Now they're going into another phase where it's going to be more of large-scale operations, counter artillery fights, the kinds of things that are needed in large conventional conflicts.

I believe, as I always have, that Ukraine has the capability of doing this. And what we've seen on the battlefield with Russia is they do not, for a variety of reasons. Poorly trained soldiers, poor leadership, bad logistics support, the inability to practice the kinds of things that they would have used in combat. So all of those things contribute to the tilting of that advantage for Ukraine, which many of us who worked with Ukrainians and Russians realized was there -- the potential of that was there from the very beginning.

SCIUTTO: Steve Hall, Lloyd Austin used some interesting language following his visit here, saying that the U.S. goal now is to weaken Russia so as to prevent further invasion of Ukraine, another invasion down the line. I mean, that's new language, hasn't used before. Does that, in your view, change the mission from being a largely defensive one, help Ukraine defend itself, to something with a more offensive aspect to it?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I'm not sure it's going to be the hallmark of a more offensive, you know, attacks on Russia, you know, inside of Russia, per se, Jim, but it's language that I really welcome because it's something that I think many Russian watchers have been hoping for for a number of years now. There's always been a lot of self-editing that happens in the West.

Well, you know, we have to be careful with regard to Russia, you know, it's a large country, so forth and so on. But finally I think politicians and senior leadership are beginning to use language that indicates that containment, sort of an old, you know, Cold War era term, but containment, which is trying to surround and weaken a state that has proven itself to be very, very aggressive against its neighbors. You know, attacking and annexing large portions of neighboring

countries, that that is worth saying, look, those people need to be weakened. Russia needs to be weakened. And I'm glad we're saying it because Russia is counting on us on Western focus sort of wavering over the coming months. So it's good to hear that type of language, I think.

[09:25:06]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The propaganda will always be there, right, regardless of whether they can quote U.S. officials not. But, General Hertling, on the one hand you have U.S. officials saying that Russia has, indeed, been weakened by this war, but the shelling continues. Just over the weekend you had innocent civilians there, apartment buildings bombed in the port city of Odessa. And that is much further west than they typically have been firing upon thus far in this war. What does that tell you about the next weeks in this war?

HERTLING: Yes, it tells me that Russia again does not care about hurting and injuring and killing and criminally violating sovereignty and addressing their conflict toward the civilian population as opposed to soldiers. And if I can add, Bianna, onto what Steve just said, too, I also welcome these remarks because we have seen a Russia that has continued to do these kinds of things.

Target civilian populations, target governments through cyber activity, threaten other countries within NATO. So the approach of saying, we've got to limit their capacity, to do that in the future is something that, truthfully, has been -- something that has been going on for many years, which even Jim Sciutto talked about in his book. Now we're saying, hey, we've got to stop this interference in sovereign nations, whether it's overt like it has been in Ukraine, or whether it's covert, like it has been in places like Estonia, Latvia, Poland. So yes, I think all of that is fascinating.

SCIUTTO: And you wonder if a message as well to China when it comes to Taiwan.

Steve Hall, we did notice five missile strikes in the western part of the country along rail lines in the last 24 hours at the same time in the wake of a visit by U.S. senior officials in which they entered and exited the country via the western part of this country. Do you find that timing coincidental or deliberate?

HALL: No, I think it's probably deliberate. I think we've got, you know, Russia has said, we don't like -- or they actually demanded that the West stop providing military assistance. Some of which is going by rail, some of which is going by other means. So, that's one thing they're trying to continue to message and look, we're going to potentially attack those convoys. But yes, when you have senior leadership coming over into Ukraine and using a train and then Russia responds, yes, that's obviously a great concern.

And it's a great concern to Russia as the senior western officials continue to show up in Ukraine because that is a real booster and it's more than just psychological. It's a signal to the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people that the west has got their back and their continuing to support them. So, the Russians don't like that and will continue to respond, Jim.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, all of those leaders are arriving by rail, right? I mean, they're not flying into the airport there in Kyiv. They're coming in from across the border in Poland by train.

Mark Hertling, Steve Hall, thank you so much.

Well, in moments, a New York judge will hear arguments on whether to hold former President Trump in contempt for not complying with a subpoena for some of his records. We're live outside the courthouse. Up next.

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