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Gov. Brian Kemp (R-GA), Fmr. Sen. David Perdue (R-GA) Spar Over 2020 Election Results During Debate; Supreme Court Takes Up Case of Praying High School Football Coach; Russia Intensifies Attacks Against Residential Areas in Kharkiv. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 25, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, ultimately, it will be up to Georgia's secretary of state, Republican Brad Raffensperger, to weigh the judge's recommendation and decide if Greene should be banned from the ballot.

Joining me now is CNN Editor at Large and Politics Reporter Chris Cillizza. Chris, great to see you. So, based on Raffensperger's action in the past, what's the outcome for Greene and, really, Trump in the state?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. So, I think it's important that we separate out what Raffensperger did in 2020 versus what we're talking about here. So, in 2020, the question was Donald Trump calling Brad Raffensperger and saying, I need you to find effectively 11,000 votes so that I can win the state. Raffensperger refused that's why Donald Trump has endorsed Jodi Hice, a congressman who is running against Raffensperger in the Georgia primary.

Let's put that in a bin. That was Raffensperger quite clearly standing up to Donald Trump's unlawful attempt to overturn the election results in Georgia. This is a lot more unclear legal ground. So, as you mentioned, based on the 14th Amendment, there's a provision put in post-civil war to deal with treason.

The issue here and why you heard Marjorie Taylor Greene say, I don't know so many times, is the issue is intent, Bianna. That's the question in terms of proving it. Can you prove that she knew violence was likely, that she encouraged violence? She's going to say, and she did over 50 times, some version of I don't know or I can't remember because it's hard to prove intent.

And, remember, even if the judge recommends that she be removed from the ballot, Raffensperger who, I'll remind people, is a Republican, just like Marjorie Taylor Greene, they may be at different ends of the spectrum but still in the same party, he has the ultimate authority to decide this. So, the judge cannot rule her off the ballot. It's up to the secretary of state.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And then she, of course, whatever that ruling, she could appeal it as well, right?

CILLIZZA: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Chris Cillizza, this is a long process, thanks for helping explain it for us.

Well, here with me now is Patricia Murphy, Political Reporter for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Patricia, great to see you.

So, we know that former President Trump still plays a significant role in Georgia politics. I'm just curious, what do you think the long-term implications are here for Raffensperger and also Greene?

PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICAL REPORTER, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Well, the short-term implications for Brad Raffensperger is that he has his own primary coming up on May 24th. And that primary is against Representative Jodi Hice, who is a stop the stealer, one of the Republicans in Washington who works to overthrow the Georgia election results. So, he has his own short-term political survival at stake here, but I think also he is a man who has shown that his own political survival is not paramount in his decision-making process, otherwise he would have gone in a different direction during the 2020 election.

So, long-term, we'll have to see what he does with this. We need to first see what the judge recommends to him in the meantime.

GOLODRYGA: How about Greene?

MURPHY: I think for Marjorie Taylor Greene, this won't make a dent in her support in the 14th congressional district among the Republicans who support her. That is an extremely conservative Republican district. And the people who are with her are also with Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is the most popular Republican in Georgia right now. And so she has aligned herself closely with him and with his causes. And if you are an in an extremely conservative district and you need to just get through your primary first and then a general election, I really don't think this is going to change people's minds about her. They've known this about her that she had a lot to do with standing in the way of the election and I think this just reinforces that for better or for worse for Georgia voters.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. She walked into that courtroom to a round of applause, right? She didn't seem too worried as she was testifying.

Speaking of primaries, last night was the first Republican gubernatorial primary debate between David Perdue, former senator there who lost to Jon Ossoff in 2020, and current governor, Brian Kemp. And, of course, the issue came up right at the top about the 2020 election. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PERDUE, (R) CANDIDATE FOR GEORGIA GOVERNOR: Let me be very clear tonight. The election in 2020 was rigged and stolen. Rising gas prices, unbelievable inflation, the brink of war, all that started all here in Georgia when our governor caved and allowed radical Democrats to steal our election.

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): I've always said there's fraud in every election. And when I was secretary of state, I went after it. I didn't say there weren't problems in this election. Look, I was as frustrated as anybody else. That's why we passed the strongest election integrity act in the country.

PERDUE: Weak leaders take credit when things go well.

KEMP: Weak leaders blame people --

PERDUE: And I'll tell you, they'll blame somebody else when it doesn't.

KEMP: Hey, weak leaders blame everybody else for their own loss instead of themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So, obviously, Governor Kemp continuing to receive the ire of former President Trump who won't forgive him for not supporting him and calling that election rigged in 2020.

I'm just curious for Georgia voters, how does this play out? I mean, you heard Perdue bring up all present-day issues, from inflation, the economy, and yet he's still talking about 2020.

[10:35:04]

Is that what voters are talking about?

MURPHY: It's what some voters are talking about. It's definitely what some Donald Trump supporters are talking about. And David Perdue is going after those Trump voters, trying to activate them, trying to expand their numbers to try and catch up with Brian Kemp.

But Brian Kemp is a popular governor here in the state of Georgia, even among Republicans. And he has raised an enormous amount of money. Our Georgia legislature, which is heavily Republican, majority Republican, many Donald Trump supporters in there, almost unanimous behind this governor.

And so we're finding that when Donald Trump endorses in a race, when voters have a lot of other information about them like in this governor's race, voters are kind of making their own decision, even among GOP voters. Lower down the ballot, that's not the case and Trump has endorsed in seven different statewide races and it's more important in those races but I think it will be a test nationwide for how his support plays out.

GOLODRYGA: Stacey Abrams, the Democratic candidate for governor, President Trump has so much contempt, clearly, for the current governor that he's even quasi-endorsed her and said she would be a better fit for governor than Brian Kemp. What role does she play here? I know she came up in the debate last night. How big of a factor is she this early on?

MURPHY: She's a huge factor. And I will tell you that because GOP voters want more than anything. In addition to liking Donald Trump, they want to beat Stacey Abrams in November and so GOP voters I'm talking to are evaluating which of these candidates is best positioned to do that.

Brian Kemp has already beaten Stacey Abrams in a statewide race for his own election. David Perdue just lost a statewide race to Jon Ossoff and that's a big concern I hear from Republicans. They are terrified that Stacey Abrams might become the governor. And so she's playing a huge role in this GOP primary.

And then in November, of course, up until then she's had the entire field to herself, the first thing voters saw after that debate was an ad from Stacey Abrams, big smile on her face, very positive message. She has the room to do that because she's unopposed right now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Governor Kemp saying last night there's only one candidate up here that's defeated her in the past, he said, and that's me. Patricia Murphy, thank you, as always.

MURPHY: Thanks so much.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still ahead, Ukrainians worried the city of Kharkiv is in a strategic position near Russian supply lines and under constant shelling in the east and could now be the next Mariupol. We'll take you there, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

GOLODRYGA: The Supreme Court is taking on a case about free speech rights today. Joseph Kennedy was a high school football coach in Washington State who was fired for praying on the field before and after games.

The school district said he made a spectacle of delivering prayers and speeches and students may have felt pressure to join him.

CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider joins me now. So, Jessica, what areas of law will the justices be focused on in this case?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna. This is really a high-profile case. It examines the intersection of free speech and religious liberties here. The justices tackling this question of, did this coach have the right to engage in prayer on the 50-yard line after games when he insists this was within his right under the free exercise of religion clause?

But the school district out in Washington State, they are arguing here that it improperly pressured students to join him in what they say was a very public display of prayer while that coach was representing the school district.

Interestingly here, the two lower courts they found in favor of the school saying that they could restrict this speech. But it's possible now with this argument going before this increasingly conservative Supreme Court that has vigorously defended religious rights in all arenas, it's possible it could go the other way and the football coach could win.

The justices are hearing arguments. They began at 10:00 this morning.

I was actually just outside the Supreme Court where the group was there, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. They held a press conference. They argued that if the Supreme Court allows this activity, not only for this coach, but other coaches around the country or other educators, it could improperly impede the religious rights of students who don't have the same beliefs but might feel pressured to pray with their coach or other teacher.

Bianna, we have repeatedly seen the Supreme Court rule in recent months on the side of religious organizations. So, some Supreme Court watchers, they are arguing that maybe the Supreme Court could rule with the coach in this case. And it could really upend Supreme Court precedent when it comes to prayers in school if the court, in fact, sides with the coach. But the arguments are ongoing and we do expect a ruling on this sometime before July. Bianna?

GOLODRYGA: You'll be following this case for us closely. Jessica Schneider, thank you, as always.

And still ahead, our next guest has been documenting Russia's invasion of Ukraine since it began. He's now in Kharkiv where the shelling is nearly continuous. We'll talk to him after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I feel good about the French election, number one. Number two, I tried to talk to him last night. We spoke with his staff, but he was at the Eiffel Tower having a good time. So, I'm going to be talking to him today.

REPORTER: And, Mr. President, did you speak with Secretary Blinken or Secretary Austin after their trip to Ukraine?

BIDEN: We're going to be doing that now. I spoke to them before and on the way, but I haven't spoken --

REPORTER: And what did you think of their trip? BIDEN: It was good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden just moments ago at Joint Base Andrews, asked if he'd had a chance to speak yet with Secretary Blinken and Austin following their visit here to Ukraine to meet with the Ukrainian president and other Ukrainian officials, said that he spoke to them prior and is set to get an update from them now, Bianna.

[10:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. He said he also spoke and congratulated Emmanuel Macron for his victory over Marine Le Pen in France. He congratulated him. And Vladimir Putin also congratulated Macron over the weekend.

SCIUITTO: Well, the deaths of three generations of one Ukrainian family from Russian bombardment have sparked outrage in a country already heartbroken by two months of brutal war. Valerie Glodan, her mother and her three-month-old baby girl, all three of them killed in a Russian missile attack in Odessa over the weekend. This picture posted by Valerie's husband and Kyra's (ph) father who had only just left their flat to go shopping when the building was hit, that poor little baby.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. That father said he lost his whole world in that attack.

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy in his nightly address was visibly upset talking about the three-month-old baby Kyra's (ph) killing, asking, how did she threaten Russia and saying it seemed that killing children is just a new national idea of the Russian Federation. He called those who planned and carried out the attack bastards.

And this morning, Russia is keeping up its intense constant bombardment of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city.

SCIUTTO: We're now joined by Freelance Photojournalist Collin Mayfield who is there in Kharkiv and joins us now by the phone. Collin, it's good to have you on.

We've been looking at your photos from throughout this conflict. I believe you arrived in the country just a few days before the invasion and have been sharing just some very powerful images of what this war has done to this country, tell us, after weeks of covering this, tell us what kind of war this is you want to describe to people watching back home.

COLLIN MAYFIELD, FREELANCE PHOTOJOURNALIST (voice over): This is a war of bombardment and artillery. I talked to many soldiers who described how they've been at the front for weeks and not fired their weapons once but come under artillery barrage. In my own personal experience, we've had to flee from artillery a few times and we've only heard small arms fire a handful.

It's not a war where you're likely to get shot. It's one where you'll just get blown up. And, unfortunately, the bombing was pretty indiscriminate. I visited a lot of sites in Kharkiv that have been hit by cruise missiles and Grad rockets, like the Barabashova market was hit by a number of Grad rockets and burned down. It's a civilian marketplace. The Saltivka neighborhood in Kharkiv was very, very badly damaged by Russian Grads and it's just horrible, constant bombardment.

GOLODRYGA: Just to give our viewers a sense of your background. You're 22 years old. You started as a freelance journalist two years ago covering the Black Lives Matter movement here in the United States. Here you are in Ukraine. You don't speak Ukrainian. You don't speak Russian. You travel throughout the country there. And you were even detained in Transnistria, that disputed region, in Moldova, neighboring Ukraine to the west. Talk about that experience.

MAYFIELD (voice over): So, the reason I went to Transnistria was after a month-and-a-half of covering the war in Ukraine, I wanted to see how Russian-backed separatists lived. And visiting the separatists in the Donbas, the Luhansk and Donetsk People's Republic, that wasn't feasible for me.

So, I crossed into Moldova, and then from there, I went into Tiraspol, which is the capital of Transnistria. I applied for press accreditation there but was never able to get it, so I just got on -- got in on a tourist visa and went into this unrecognized country.

The border is maintained by the Russian army. There are a few hundred Russian, quote/unquote, peacekeepers there. I saw plenty of them. And about my third day in Transnistria, as I was taking pictures, I was getting trailed by a police van.

And they forced me into the van, took me to a ministry of state security building and put me in a cell. They stripped me, photographed my tattoos, took a mug shot. And after seven hours worth of interrogations, through Google Translate, interestingly enough, I was deported. So, yes, I did not spend long in Russian-occupied separatist territory.

And when I --

SCIUTTO: Collin, one thing that struck me is --

MAYFIELD (voice over): I'm sorry, what?

SCIUTTO: Sorry. We're just pressed for time here, but I do want to ask you about how you were able to capture how people tried to live through this as well, which is something that's struck me. This picture here we have up is a man swimming in the black sea, even in the midst of mines. It's a mined area.

[10:55:00]

MAYFIED (voice over): Some people are terrified and some people are trying to live their lives as normally as possible.

GOLODRYGA: It's just incredible. And you're doing some really impressive work telling all of their stories with the help of Google Translate too. Collin Mayfield, thank you so much and stay safe.

MAYFIELD (voice over): Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And thank you all for joining us. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. You can probably hear behind me more air raid sirens here in Lviv as we end the show. We will update you to see what follows.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]