Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

New York Judge Holds Trump in Contempt; U.S. Officials Meet with Zelenskyy in Ukraine. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 25, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:35]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being with us.

Russia unleashes fresh attacks, as the U.S. gives a major show of support in Ukraine,Secretary of state and Tony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin meeting with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy in Kyiv, and delivered a clear and key message: Russia is failing, and Ukraine can win.

At the same time, Russian missiles were raining down on vital train infrastructure across Ukraine. But the ramped-up attacks on a rail system that Blinken and Austin used just hours prior couldn't drown out what the world heard from them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We don't know how the rest of this war will unfold, but we do know that a sovereign, independent Ukraine will be around a lot longer than Vladimir Putin is on the scene. And our support for Ukraine going forward will continue. It will continue until we see final success.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine. So it has already lost a lot of military capability and a lot of its troops, quite frankly.

And we want to see them not have the capability to very quickly reproduce that capability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Secretary Blinken also announced U.S. diplomats will return to Ukraine this week. They will be coming back to scenes of destruction. This drone video was taken in a Kyiv suburb yesterday showing the devastating aftermath of Russia's failed advance. In Mariupol, that steel plant serving as a massive civilian shelter was bombarded by Russians all weekend, leaving women and children trapped underground in the dark and running low on supplies, as you can see in this new video purportedly documenting life inside.

Now, CNN has not independently verify the authenticity of this footage.

Let's get right to our reporters on the ground.

Scott McLean McLean is in Lviv. Matt Rivers is in Kyiv.

Scott, to you first. As we're getting details about these Russian strikes on train stations, we have also learned a series of explosions went off in a separatist chunk of Moldova that Russia has its eyes on. What more can you tell us about these two developments?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Ana.

So, yes, this news about Transnistria is just coming in. We know that a series of explosions were heard around the ministry of state security interest in Tiraspol. That is the capital of this separatist statelet of Moldova that has a heavy Russian-speaking population there.

Again, we don't know anything about the motivations or who might have been behind this, but it was actually a Russian state news agency correspondent who reported hearing these very loud booms in that area. Now, this area was in the news just days ago because a Russian commander had said that Russia's goal in Ukraine was not only to take the eastern Donbass area, but also to have full control over the southern part of Ukraine along the Black Sea, in order to link up with Transnistria, this Russian-speaking part of Moldova.

That did not go over very well with them the Moldovans, as you can imagine. They summoned the ambassador, making sure that they were aware that, of course, this is a neutral country, it's an independent country, and that Russia ought to respect its boundaries.

Now, when it comes to those attacks on the train stations ,according to the head of Ukrainian railways, there were five separate sites that were targeted. The furthest west was about an hour east of where we are in Lviv. We went out to that site earlier today. The governor released videos showing what he said was an electrical substation that had been.

It, there's smoke billowing from that area on the ground. We will not be able to get very close to that area, but we were able to see the area along the tracks. And what we saw there was remnants of what they said were Russian missiles, twisted bits of charred and partially melted metal that you could see littered all over the ground that had Cyrillic Russian writing on them.

Now, what they did not find is a large trench or a big hole in the ground. So -- and so they think that at least one of those missiles was struck down by the Ukrainian missile defense system. The other, though, appeared to have hit its target.

One other thing, Ana. And that is that, in Vinnytsia, there were two separate strikes there. The governor says that five people were killed, 18 were injured in those strikes.

CABRERA: It's hard to keep track of it all.

[13:05:00]

And we still obviously have a heart for what's happening in Mariupol. What is the latest there?

MCLEAN: Yes, so you mentioned that heartbreaking video early -- put out earlier by the Azov Battalion.

You can see just how dark it is down in this underground bunker. You can see women and children in that. And there were two things that stood out to me. One is the obvious, women saying that they only have a few days' worth of food left. The other is perhaps less obvious, women talking about how they're trying to make diapers for some of the children with whatever material they have.

So they're using whatever cloth they have, plastic bags, and then packing tape to try to actually keep them on the children. They're obviously getting rashes.

This is not the first time that they have put out video of women and children sheltered underground. Today, Russia offered a cease-fire, allowing those civilians to get out, they say in any direction that they wanted. They even specified what the radio chatter should sound like and that the Ukrainians should put a white flag above that plant to indicate that they're willing to go along with that plan.

The deputy prime minister of Ukraine, though, shot it down quite quickly, though, saying there will be no humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol because she simply does not trust that the Russians will do what they promised to do. Remember, on Saturday, they had accused the Russians of tricking a group of about 200 Ukrainians in Mariupol into going to Russian-held territory, when they thought they were actually going to be evacuated further into Ukraine to Zaporizhzhia -- Ana.

CABRERA: Yes, you can certainly understand that hesitation to trust anything that the Russians are proposing at this point.

Matt, Sunday's high-level meeting there in Kyiv was kept under wraps until early this morning. What have you learned? What was discussed and what tangible results are expected to come at that meeting?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, this is a meeting that has been in the works for a long time, Ana, certainly the most senior U.S. delegation to arrive here to Kyiv since the war began and something that President Zelenskyy and his administration have been lobbying for both publicly and privately for a long time.

Some deliverables came out of this meeting, according to the U.S. secretaries of defense and of state. Starting on the defense side, you're seeing several 100 million more dollars worth of aid set to be shipped here. It continues this real intense ramp-up from the Biden administration, as opposed to the beginning of the war, where aid, critics say, was a bit too slow coming here to Ukrainian forces.

Now we have seen more than a billion dollars, now more than $2 billion in total, of heavier weaponry coming here to Ukraine. That is what the Ukrainian administration has been asking for. That came out of this meeting. Also, you mentioned off the top diplomatic members of the United States government set to return to Ukraine for the first time in a long time.

At first, we're told it's going to be more day trips into places like Lviv and other parts of the country. We're not going to see a full- fledged diplomatic mission, the embassy reopened, for example, here in Kyiv, right away. But it is very symbolic, the United States coming back here, both diplomatically and committing further to more aid militarily -- Ana.

CABRERA: That's right, and the U.S. now going to move forward with the nomination of a new U.S. ambassador to Ukraine as well, so all developments in the past 24 hours.

Thank you both, Matt Rivers and Scott McLean.

In another indication military shipments to Ukraine are actually changing the dynamics on the ground, Russia's ambassador to the U.S. is demanding the Biden administration stop supplying Ukraine with weapons.

Let's bring in CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson.

And, Nic, read between the lines of this latest warning for us from Russia about U.S. firepower.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the Russians have already issued about nine days ago a demarche, a diplomatic communique to the United States, essentially saying, cease and desist supplying weapons to Ukraine.

So they are upping the ante at the moment. And we know, because the deputy Russian ambassador to the United Nations was speaking to journalists a few minutes ago, they're doubling down on these allegations, that they are saying that the United States is supporting Ukraine in train some kind of provocative action using chemical weapons inside Ukraine.

This, they have no -- offer no solid, verifiable basis for these allegations. But, at the same time, the same diplomat also said that, right now, the U.S. ambassador in Moscow is in a meeting with the deputy Russian foreign minister. So it is quite possible we -- when a readout comes out of that meeting, that we may hear again Russia doubling down on this -- on this message that the United States, indeed threaten the United States should not support and supply Ukraine with weapons.

And I think pursuant to what Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said today, that we want a Russian military that's degraded, that cannot come back, I mean, this is exactly the language that will excite and anger President Putin, because he fears a stronger enemy. And he will not respond -- he will not respond positively to that.

[13:10:07]

And I think the expectation would be that Putin would double down in his efforts against Ukraine and potentially against the weapons shipments that are coming in.

CABRERA: One high-profile Putin ally that many are calling to be sanctioned is his rumored girlfriend.

But, Nic, the administration is reportedly concerned that this would be a provocation. Yet the U.S. is already sanctioning Putin's daughters and sending in these heavy weapons, so why the hesitation here?

ROBERTSON: Yes, it's not entirely clear.

This is a figure obviously extremely close to President Putin. Diplomatically, by leaving things still on the table, it shows that you can ratchet up the level of pain. This -- we know Putin would feel very, very angry and bitter about this. It's quite possible that the read is, do this -- don't do this. Don't push him over an edge, if you will, a mental edge.

But it's not clear. I think what would be clear in this scenario is that what money she has, he generates. So by sanctioning -- by sanctioning him already, you are already effectively affecting her, although she could be potentially disposing of his assets for longer- term gain later.

So that also, I would expect, would be part of the calculation.

CABRERA: Something to watch.

Nic Robertson, thank you.

An award-winning longtime photographer chooses to capture this war from the sidelines, but what she found there was far more difficult to see than she could have ever imagined. And this is someone who has covered many wars and other disasters for decades. We will talk with her.

Plus, graphic audio recordings of fights between actor Johnny Depp and Amber Heard played out in court. This is now day four of Depp's testimony in his defamation trial against his ex-wife, but things are already getting very intense.

And do they have a deal? Reports Elon Musk is poised to take over Twitter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:43]

CABRERA: We're following now breaking news out of New York, where former President Donald Trump is now being held in contempt of court for refusing to comply with the subpoena as part of the New York A.G.'s investigation into his company.

Want to get straight to CNN's Kara Scannell.

Kara, you were in court. What does all this mean now for former -- the former president?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana.

So this was after a two-hour hearing, where both sides were arguing, both the New York attorney general and Trump's attorneys, one saying he's not in compliance with the subpoena for documents, the other saying that he has.

So, the judge, after this hearing, he said that he would hold Donald Trump in contempt of court and fine him $10,000 a day. Here's what the judge said: "Mr. Trump, I know you take your business seriously. And I take mine seriously. I hereby hold you in civil contempt and fine you $10,000 per day until you purge that contempt."

And this was a subpoena for documents relating to the New York attorney general's investigation, looking for financial records, anything that Trump might have. His attorney has signaled that she might appeal this and she might also try to correct it by filing an affidavit, a sworn statement under oath, that they have searched every file cabinet, every phone for documents that are related to the subpoena to try to resolve this issue.

But until now, we expect that Trump will be fined $10,000 a day. Starting when we will be determined when the judge issues his order tomorrow -- Ana.

CABRERA: Kara Scannell, thanks for that update.

Now, Russia's attacks on Ukraine are unrelenting. For weeks, we have shown you the images of bombed-out buildings across the country.

Now CNN's Clarissa Ward takes us inside one of those in Kharkiv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What people here fear in this city is that Kharkiv could be the next Mariupol, because of the amount of bombardment and the real intensification that we have seen of that bombardment, especially in the last week.

Now, I just want cameraman Scotty McWhinney and producer Brent Swails to be a little careful here. But I do want to show you this, because it gives you a real feeling for just the enormity of that blast, I mean, absolutely astonishing. It literally took out six stories. And that's why, as you can probably

imagine, we're hearing from authorities here that they do believe some people are still trapped under that rubble, but that it is just simply impossible for them at this stage, with bombardment continuing day in and day out in this city, for them to try to dig down underneath that and get a sense of just how many people may have lost their lives here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: With us now is CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier and retired U.S. Army Major John Spencer. He's an expert in urban warfare and author of "Connected Soldiers: Life, Leadership, and Social Connections in Modern War."

Major Spencer, Kharkiv is Ukraine's second largest city; 25 percent of the buildings there have now been destroyed. And, as we heard Clarissa report, people there are worried their city could become the next Mariupol. What do you think?

MAJ. JOHN SPENCER (RET.), MADISON POLICY FORUM: Yes, I think it's definitely concerning.

And as Russia has shown, this isn't warfare. Russia is basically implementing terrorism, wantonly bombing the cities that aren't military targets. They're war crimes. I think it is very concerning and something that we have to watch and continue to be concerned about.

[13:20:10]

CABRERA: Kim, today's meeting between Zelenskyy and the U.S. secretary of state and secretary of defense, the U.S.' message was clear: Russia is failing and Ukraine will win.

Blinken even saying Ukraine will be around a lot longer than Vladimir Putin, some strong words. Why do you think the U.S. is so confident or at least projecting confidence in this way?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, by this visit, the U.S. has really put a marker down. The Biden administration's reputation will rise or fall by how Ukraine does in this war at home and globally.

So, by saying that Russia has to be weaker, one thing it's going to do is empower Ukrainians and Ukrainian troops. And, also, European allies are very concerned. A top E.U. official was in D.C. last week, and said, they believe, if Russia isn't stopped in Ukraine, he's simply going to keep trying to take other territory.

So it's an important message. But it also puts the U.S. into a sort of declared proxy war against Russia, the kind it used to fight through other people against the Soviet Union. And it's sort of a creeping manifestation of the U.S. policy. While they're not directly trying to unseat Vladimir Putin, they're certainly giving every indication that they'd like to see that happen. CABRERA: Major, the level of destruction we have seen, the number of

atrocities that we have all witnessed now through images, as Russia has moved its way through different parts of Ukraine and seems to be determined to continue, it just makes me question what we're hearing when we hear from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin that he believes Ukraine can win if they have the right equipment.

We know what Russia's capable of. We're told more U.S. military aid is in the works. But is Ukraine getting what it needs fast enough?

SPENCER: Yes, about a week ago, if you would have asked me that, I would have said no.

But, as of now, with the numbers and the speed at which we're delivering the heavier system, the artillery, the ammunition, the vehicles, I mean, Secretary Austin, don't forget, is also one of our best generals. He knows what's needed. Russia is going to be defeated. I honestly believe that as well.

Of course, there's a price that Ukrainians have paid up to this point, they're continuing to pay every day. But this amount of firepower and these tools and the training, it's coming in at really unbelievable speed. So, I'm really confident that Ukraine is going to defeat Russia. Russia has already lost, actually.

CABRERA: What do you mean Russia has already lost?

SPENCER: From every measure, from the strategic down to the tactical, Russia has shown the world that they're not this big superpower, that they can't do basic military tasks.

So, in the overall picture, Russia has lost. He's lost generations of generals. The number is like 10. It takes decades to replace that. This is costing him much more than we kind of see in the moment to execute this illegal invasion.

And I agree. If you don't stop him here, there's no stopping him going other places. But, by every measure, from the tactical, even in Mariupol, to the strategic, Russia is losing. It lost the battle of Kyiv. And it's losing everything.

CABRERA: And, Kim, despite these daily deadly strikes, the State Department says they plan to reopen the embassy as soon as possible and American diplomats will return to Kyiv. We're seeing other countries do the same.

Why now? And how risky is it?

DOZIER: Well, in one sense, the State Department has been kind of shamed into this, because the Brits and others are sending their diplomats all the way back to Kyiv. But an important part of having a representative on the ground means face-to-face conversations with President Zelenskyy, fewer misunderstandings, and also a chance for U.S. intelligence to return and gather the kind of intelligence, whether it's defense intelligence or CIA, that they need to prosecute this war. And just to red tea (ph) Major Spencer a bit, the problem is, by the

U.S. putting this marker down that they want to see Russia weaker, Russia hasn't yet declared a full war. It hasn't declared a full conscription of all 140 million-plus of its population. And it's got a lot of equipment mothballed that it could pull out and repair and just try to do this by sheer force and mass, not skill.

So, that is the danger to saying where the U.S. is winning, Ukraine is winning, when Russia is still fighting.

CABRERA: And every expert we have heard from essentially says this could be a very long, drawn-out invasion and conflict.

[13:25:00]

Major John Spencer and Kim Dozier, got to leave it there today. I appreciate both of you, as always. Thank you.

Moments ago: splashdown. A private SpaceX crew just landed off the coast of Florida. More on that groundbreaking mission just ahead.

Plus, we have talked a lot about our physical health during this pandemic, but what about the mental impact? A new study showing the rate of suicides rose among adolescents.

We have got the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)