Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
French President Emmanuel Macron Wins Re-election; Blinken And Austin Meet With Zelenskyy In Ukraine; Russian Attacks In Eastern Ukraine Hamper Aid Efforts. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired April 25, 2022 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:00:25]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Christiane Amanpour in Paris, where a high profile victory here in France has been welcomed by American and European allies amid Russia's war in Ukraine, as Emmanuel Macron pulls off a dramatic re-election. And the U.S. Secretaries of State and Defense complete a visit to President Zelenskyy in Kyiv.
Now, despite Macron's decisive whim, the strongest showing yet from the far-right candidate Marine Le Pen, and the French President is acknowledging that his second term cannot just be a repetition of his first. Mr. Macron is the first French President in 20 years to win re- election, and he admits many people didn't vote for him but rather against his opponent. He promises to address the country's economic issues and also the anger and disagreements that drove voters to the far-right.
Mr. Macron ended up with 59 percent of the vote compared to Le Pen's 41 percent. And although that may seem like a wide margin, which it is, it's the closest a far-right candidate has ever come to winning the French presidency. And that is victory rally, Mr. Macron appealed for unity and vowed to try to heal this nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translation): We have so much to do, and the war in Ukraine is a reminder that we are going through tragic times when France must speak out, show the clarity of its choices, and build its strength in all areas, and we will do so. We will also need, my friends, to be kind and respectful, because our country is full of so many doubts, so many divisions. So we will need to be strong, but no one will be left behind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now, Marine Le Pen did admit that Macron won, but there was no generous or gracious concession speech. But indeed she said that she would continue to fight and do everything she can to portray Sunday's vote as a victory for her party. Some protesters angry about the results turned out in Paris and Lyon. They shot fireworks at police who responded with tear gas. Le Pen had tried to rally her supporters to deliver the far-right of victory in the parliamentary elections, which come up in June. And she's vowing to fight on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translation): The five years which are beginning this evening, we'll do nothing to dispel the content that Macron is holding. More than ever, I will pursue my commitment to France and the French with the determination and the will that you know that I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now, more on the elections in just a moment. But as we said, our other top story is the visit of the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin to Kyiv yesterday. They met with President Zelenskyy and they are the highest level U.S. officials to visit Ukraine since the Russian invasion began.
And for more on that, let's bring in Lisa Soares -- Isa Soares, who's in Lviv right now. Isa?
ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Christiane. That's right. It's probably the worst kept secret that visit from U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, the U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and given the fact that President Zelenskyy announced their visit on address -- the press conference on Saturday, if you remember.
But we've now heard from the U.S. you looking at some of those images they're coming in, and the U.S. have confirmed that they have met and they met for roughly 90 minutes or so. President Zelenskyy -- they met President Zelenskyy as well as the Defense Minister of Ukraine, Interior Minister and the Foreign Minister. A 90-minute meeting.
And let me talk you through what came out of that meeting in terms of the deliverables here, Christiane. We know from Secretary Blinken that U.S. diplomats will start returning to Ukraine as early as this week. It will be more of a -- there'll be making day trips in and out of Ukraine to the city where I am in Lviv. This obviously follows other countries, other embassies that have been opened here in the past a few weeks or so.
We've also heard that President Biden intends to nominate Bridget Brink as ambassador to Ukraine. Bridget Brink is the current ambassador to Slovakia now. The Embassy here, the U.S. Embassy here has been without an ambassador since 2019. So an important move indeed.
[01:05:06]
On the military front which is something that is important given that President Zelenskyy has said in that press conference on Saturday, hope my visitors don't come empty handed. That was his quote on that Saturday.
Well, this is what we know. The President Biden intends to provide $713 million in additional Foreign Military Financing. Now, that is not just for Ukraine, that's for Ukraine, and 15 other allied partners, that's other nations Central Eastern Europe, as well as the Balkans.
Of those $713 million, Christiane, about $322 million will go directly to Ukraine. And that's to help Ukraine kind of shift and maneuver transition from its old Soviet Euro artillery and weaponry to more kind of advanced weapons in line with NATO. So important details coming into us from that 90-minute meeting.
We also heard from the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who said that some of the howitzers that were promised in that $800 million package from the U.S. to Ukraine, just last week, they've started to arrive. And, of course, it's as effective at this stage of the offensive because the terrain in Donbas is very different, and they need longer range weaponry here.
But still, the meeting is the highest meeting by U.S. officials -- highest visit in Ukraine since the day -- since the war began about 60 or so days ago. And it is a testament and it's been hailed as a testament of U.S. support and commitment to Ukraine. But they have faced questions. The U.S. administration officials tell us they have faced questions as to why President Biden has yet to visit Ukraine, given that we've seen so many other leaders visiting Kyiv and meeting with President Zelenskyy, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Isa, thank you. And of course, everybody knows, and they've already had to put out a statement that when the U.S. President travels, it's a completely different picture of security and preparation than even from any other leader. So I guess that's their answer about that. But those weapons --
SOARES: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- will be welcome, of course, the new heavy weaponry that actually the Ukrainians really do need for the new phase of this war. Isa, we'll be back to you with more from Ukraine later in this hour.
But first, let us continue with our election coverage. Despite the high stakes here and with the response to the war in Ukraine, many French voters did actually choose to stay at home. The abstention rate was quite high. The Interior Ministry says that rate for the run off was 28 percent which is the highest percentage of non-participation in a French presidential run off since 2002.
Now congratulations on Mr. Macron's victory rolled in from around the world with European and NATO Allies breathing probably an audible sigh of relief. The European Council President Charles Michel wrote on his Twitter, "In this turbulent world, we need a solid Europe and a France totally committed to a more sovereign and more strategic European Union."
The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz tweeted that French voters had, quote, sent a strong commitment to Europe. And that he was happy to continue our good cooperation. Mr. Scholz and Mr. Macron spoke by phone on Sunday.
The U.S. President Joe Biden called France America's oldest ally, and a key partner on Twitter on Sunday. He said he looked forward to working together to support Ukraine to defend democracy and to counter climate change.
Joining me now with much more on this is Roger Cohen. He's the New York Times Paris Bureau Chief, a longtime correspondent here and also of course, covering the upheavals in Europe really since the Balkan War. Welcome to the program.
ROGER COHEN, PARIS BUREAU CHIEF, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you very much, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Can we, because of what all these leaders have said, can we just take that aspect of Macron's win first? This sort of international as aspect. What would it have meant had Marine Le Pen won?
COHEN: Well, Christiane, I think at this moment with a war in Europe to have a French president like Marine Le Pen if she had one, who is anti-NATO, who is anti-E.U., who would have provided a breach for Vladimir Putin to work with to create trouble in Europe, she has a longtime friend sympathizer with Vladimir Putin, visited the Kremlin in 2017 during her last campaign, and has been persistently pro- Russian and talked always have equidistance between Washington and Moscow.
AMANPOUR: And of course, I mean, everybody does know also that she's taken loans and Macron did bring that up in the debate and was considered to have landed a blow when he said when you look at Putin, you're talking to your banker.
COHEN: Right. He said Russia is your banker because of a lone Marine Le Pen.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: His party took her in 2014 and has never actually paid back in full to date.
[01:10:07]
She said she was free anywhere in independent and the fact she owed Russian money made no difference. A lot of people were not convinced by that.
AMANPOUR: And the President of the United States has obviously congratulated Macron. He's a well known quantity. He supports, obviously, democracy. And I say that because Biden did refer to that. And something to the effect, I'm glad my ally won to continue the fight for democracy against the autocracy that we see right there.
COHEN: Yes. Yes. He's a remarkable politician, Emmanuel Macron. He's essentially eliminated the center right, center left buddies, occupied the entire center. Now, Joe Biden and Emmanuel Macron have had difficult moments --
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: -- notably over the submarine affair back in September. But France is a very old ally. And I think Joe Biden feels comfortable working with him on these big issues. And again, with a war in Europe was absolutely critical, that France major power in Europe, not tilt over into extreme right wing, authoritarianism and xenophobia.
AMANPOUR: A little bit like, you know, the illiberal democracy we see on the eastern flank --
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- right?
COHEN: In Hungary and in other places.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: And of course, Joe Biden has made a central plank of his presidency.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: The defense of democracy against those kinds of tendencies. That isn't an essential thing for the Biden administration.
AMANPOUR: Let's talk about inside. Now why -- I mean, we have to acknowledge and certainly the President is acknowledging that there was a lower turnout than ever, that it's the closest a far right candidate has ever come to the presidency, despite a comfortable, you know, spread between the votes. But nonetheless, it is the closest and there are a lot of angry people.
And we do have this map. I mean, I don't know whether anybody can actually see it, and take notice of this. But I'm going to show it to Roger, because all these dark bits, especially in the northern France --
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- where she did incredibly well.
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: So what does that say now for the future, for Macron's project as the second term president?
COHEN: Well, it was a pretty remarkable speech, I thought last night from Emmanuel Macron. He was victorious. But he was very sober, a very different Emmanuel Macron, from the young man who burst on the scene age 39 --
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: -- to become president five years ago. He recognized that there's a lot of anger in the country. I think he recognizes that he's appeared aloof, even arrogant at times. He didn't pay enough attention to those many French people struggling to get to the end of the month with rising prices, and so on.
So he presented himself this time around as a healer, as somebody who should be sobered a moment when there's war in Europe. And the tone was very different. Now we'll see what happens going forward. But there are huge problems in this country with a division that you see in the United States, that you see in other Western democracies, between the elites who are in the big cities who are connected and who are doing quite well from this modern economy. And then areas of the country that feel cut off, feel forgotten, feel angry, feel uncertain about their futures, and are inclined toward these right-wing movements.
AMANPOUR: So she is not indicated at all. She's lost three times now in her attempts to become president.
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: But she has not indicated that she would step down, in fact, the opposite, that she's going to come back punching harder, and that she's trying to rally a right-wing victory for the parliamentary elections in June, which will be critical to how Macron can govern. Do you think she has a chance of that?
COHEN: I think after a third failed attempt, it might be time for Madam Le Pen to reconsider things, but it was a very determined, feisty speech last night. No, I don't think that the National Rally, formerly the National Front can get anything even close to a majority in the parliament. And we can get more seats than it has now.
But it's unlikely to be a National Assembly that is as dominated by Emmanuel Macron's party is now. So it's going to be more difficult for him to govern. I think it's also going to be more difficult, because there's a lot of anger out there.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: And there are a lot of -- the people who dislike Emmanuel Macron tend to dislike him very vehemently.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: So he's got a lot of difficult obstacles to overcome. Nevertheless, it was an extraordinary victory.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: No French president, sitting president has been re-elected since 2002. The French don't generally like their presidents. And in the end, although it seemed at one point, the margin might be four or five points, or even a surprise that it was 17 points. So let's hand --
AMANPOUR: I know.
COHEN: -- hand it to him.
AMANPOUR: I think we do have to acknowledge that.
COHEN: Yes. Yes.
AMANPOUR: I really do.
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And actually, the Liberation (ph) which is a center left newspaper --
COHEN: Yes, yes.
AMANPOUR: -- has said, you know, Emmanuel Macron owes his success --
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- to the group of French people who did a huge leap of faith for democracy --
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- and for fraud and who mobilized to counter the extreme right. So that is something --
COHEN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: -- pretty important.
[01:15:07]
COHEN: Well, Emmanuel Macron said an extraordinary thing last night. He said, I know that a lot of people who voted for me do not like my ideas.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: Do not share my ideas. They voted for me only out of patriotism, to save the Republic from tilting to the far-right.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: And we all know France's history between 1940 and 1944, under a Vichy government with an extreme right, xenophobic --
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: -- anti-Semitic government.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
COHEN: So France has that specter, that it doesn't want to go back to it.
AMANPOUR: And extraordinary victory for all those reasons. Roger Cohen, thank you so much.
COHEN: Thank you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: And now for weeks, Ukraine, of course, has been front and center for European leaders like Emmanuel Macron. And Ukraine's President send congratulations as well here for the re-election victory.
Now, Volodymyr Zelenskyy tweeted that he appreciated French support for his country, adding that he's, quote, "convinced that we are moving forward together towards new common victories."
Much more on France later in the show. But coming up next, Isa Soares will talk to the head of Doctors Without Borders about what they're seeing on the frontlines in Ukraine. And the desperate need to get civilians out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:20:17]
SOARES: I'm Isa Soares coming to you live from Lviv, Ukraine. We are following breaking news for you this hour. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Sunday. They're the highest level U.S. officials to visit Ukraine since the Russian invasion began some 60 days or so ago. They also met with Ukraine's foreign defense and interior ministers for roughly 90 minutes session. We'll have much more at the top of the hour.
In the meantime, we are also monitoring breaking news out of Russia. State media reports a fire has broken out at an oil depot in the Bryansk region, which shares a border with Ukraine. It's not clear at this stage what caused the fire.
Meanwhile, Russia is pressing on with its war on Ukraine further into a new phase. The Ukrainian military is warning that Russian forces may try to launch a new offensive from the Kherson region in the coming days. A military official says Russian troops are quote forming an offensive stripe formation in the Kherson region as Moscow refocuses, of course, its efforts to try and take Eastern as well as southern Ukraine.
Well, despite it being Orthodox, Eastern no humanitarian corridors were open on Sunday. According to Ukrainian officials, Russia would not guarantee a ceasefire, the Deputy Prime Minister says she hopes the U.N. Balkan (ph), a humanitarian evacuation when the Secretary General visits Moscow this week. So far, more than 5.1 million people have fled the fighting in Ukraine to other countries. And the U.N. says more than 7.7 million Ukrainians are internally displaced. Just a staggering numbers you are looking in your screen there.
Well Stephen Cornish is Director General of Medecins Sans Frontieres. And he's joining me now live from the Dnipro, Ukraine. Stephen, thanks very much for taking the time to speak to us. Let's start really where you are in Dnipro. Give us a sense of what you've been seeing on the ground.
STEPHEN CORNISH, DIRECTOR GENERAL, MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES: Well, here in Dnipro, things are quite calm. But our teams are on the frontlines to the east in Balkan (ph), and we are seeing an increase in trauma cases and are working to increase an ambulance service there to be able to bring the trauma cases back from frontline hospitals to areas that are more secure.
From the south, we are continuing to receive displaced peoples in cities like Zaporizhzhia and here Dnipro, where our teams are working in those shelters bringing mental health support. Ukrainians are doing a very good job between volunteers and the local medics. But we're bringing the extra things that are falling through the gaps. And we know that many of these people have lived through weeks and weeks of intense shelling their stories of heartbreak and loss and almost every family that makes it. And so the mental scars of war are just as important to us as the physical ones.
SOARES: Absolutely. It's not like we've pointed out just before we came to you, Stephen. It's not just those who have left, but the displaced, 7.7 million. It's a staggering figure.
In the last in the last few minutes or so at the top of the hour, in fact, we heard reports -- we've -- I've reported on the fact the U.S. defense official, and the highest defense diplomat from the U.S. have provided more support, pledging more support military aid, but also medical aid to Ukraine. What kind of supplies even would you want to see in that package from an aid standpoint here?
CORNISH: Well, I wouldn't be able to comment on what's in the U.S. package. I know the types of humanitarian and medical assistance that we're providing. On the frontline, of course, it's trauma kits and medical and surgical apparatus. We're also very concerned with the elderly and vulnerable populations left behind in many of these towns.
People that are on poor diets living under shelling and in these underground basements are having their existing conditions like diabetes --
SOARES: Yes.
CORNISH: -- difficult to find medicine, hypertension due also to the war on the diet. So we're seeing a lot of non-communicable diseases. And it's very important that we bring the medicine for everyday occurrences in the frontline areas. The pharmacies are closed and the healthcare system that was in places is really very tenuous. So it's important that we administer to the population and all the types of needs that they have not only the war-related trauma.
SOARES: Yes. And actually, Stephen, on that point, we have seen from our teams on the ground the large majority of those staying behind some of these towns are the elderly like you point out.
[01:25:02]
I mean has MSF been able to get the supplies to those who did most in the frontlines, those who were decided or decided they can't leave or they won't leave? Give us a sense of what you are hearing your teams on the ground here.
CORNISH: Yes. So in many cases, yes, we're able to get supplies, sometimes directly, sometimes through volunteer networks. We also see the displays that arrive in here and many shelters have opened up. A lot of the shelters have bedridden elderly patients that are looking for things even like adult diapers.
And so it's very, very difficult to get to everywhere and to everyone. And there are many gaps in many places where healthcare is in extremely short supply. There are areas also where our teams have been visiting from Donetsk and other areas, which are under such intense shelling, that it's not possible for us to go. We also have to ensure that our teams are safe as well.
And so there definitely are gaps and areas where the needs are not being met. And we certainly would hope to be able to access all of those areas. It's very important that all parties to the conflict, spare (ph) civilians and medical infrastructure. And we see some times in this conflict. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.
SOARES: And what you've just really highlighted there, Stephen, is the need, the desperate need for these humanitarian corridors to put back safely so people can make their way to safety.
Stephen Cornish in Dnipro, Ukraine, thank you very much for taking time to speak to us. Thank you to your team as well for the incredible work you're doing on the ground.
And I'll be back at the top of the hour with more from Ukraine. Coming up, Christiane Amanpour is live for you from Paris. The campaign of course in France is over. The votes have been counted. So what's next for Marine Le Pen and her far-right party? We'll bring you that story just ahead. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:30:25]
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to our viewers all around the world and in the United States. I'm Christiane Amanpour in Paris.
Now, the French President Emmanuel Macron is celebrating a comfortable reelection victory. He secured 59 percent of the vote in Sunday's presidential runoff and he has become the first French president in 20 years to actually win reelection.
Mr. Macron's victory, have supporters of a strong united Europe breathing a sigh of relief. But now, he must govern with the knowledge that 41 percent of French voters supported his far right opponent Marine Le Pen.
Both candidates touched on that reality in remarks on Sunday after the vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): And I know that for a number of my compatriots, who chose the far-right today, the anger and discord, which brought them to vote for her project, also merits a response. It will also be my responsibility and the responsibility of those who surround me.
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): This result constitutes for our French leaders as well as for European leaders the sign of a great defiance from the French people towards them, which they can't ignore. And that of a widely shared aspiration for a great change.
The French have shown tonight their wish for a counter power that is strong against that of Emmanuel Macron's.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So joining me now here in Paris is CNN European affairs commentator Dominic Thomas, also a teacher of European affairs at UCLA. Welcome.
DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: So, the two comments that we just played probably lays the table for the future. Macron acknowledging that, yes, a lot of people essentially held their nose to vote for him. And she, Le Pen not really conceding and saying actually a large group of French voters have shown their disaffection with Europe -- the European project. That is part of what she had to say last night.
THOMAS: Yes. I mean, she is defending the third loss. And for the French voters, it is the third time in the last five elections, that a Le Pen family member has been on the ticket. And that they've been asked essentially to vote against her rather than for something.
I think that as with the 2017 election where that second round debate revealed her Euro-skeptic credentials and ultimately really I think drove Emmanuel Macron's message home. This time around it was the conflict in Ukraine and yet again her foreign policy connections.
And the fact is, she's on the wrong side of history. To be NATO phobic, Euro phobic, against multilateralism at this moment in European history, I think it was simply disqualifiable, and helped Emmanuel Macron.
AMANPOUR: And not only that, somewhat anti-U.S.A. as well. She does not like the so-called -- what Putin called the unipolar U.S.-led world.
THOMAS: And to that end, President Biden, you know, delivered a full- throated endorsement and congratulations to Macron. Because, for Biden as well as the leadership of the war in Ukraine against the Russian invasion, it's his democracy project, right. And here, would you say democracy kind of dodged a bullet last night?
THOMAS: It absolutely did. I mean you just see the fact that, you know, in a normal election, I mean you just -- going back like, you know, 50 years, to win by 16 or 17 would be considered a landslide. All of these elections are won by under 8 percent, except once again, when a Le Pen is on a ticket, right -- 2002, '17, '22. You have these landslide victories. So there's a rejection of that.
But at this moment in European history, when you see countries struggling alone for democratic rights and principles and for Biden, this is absolutely crucial -- the NATO alliance, the European Union. And the far-right, whether it's the Brexit debate, the Trump debate, has been such an incredible distraction, that to get away with this at this particular moment I think was there. And Macron was saved by foreign policy once again.
AMANPOUR: Let me just drill down on what you just said because I do think it's interesting, that as you say, generally the elections are fought with much slimmer margins. But this one, like the other national front candidates, was a landslide.
And yet, I've never heard people who support democracy more worried this time. They thought she could squeak through this time.
[01:34:49]
THOMAS: Yes. There are two things about Le Pen and the far-right, whether it's her and Zemmour (ph). They run on first of all the sort of downward pressure on voting, on getting people upset and angry. And they play on emotions around these proverbial three I's, right -- the immigration, identity, and Islam. And for her Islam has actually been racialized, you know.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
THOMAS: That's how far she takes it.
And she has this idea, like Zemmour, going back to colonial eras that France used to be great. It had its (INAUDIBLE) and it somehow it's been eroded by everything you mentioned -- globalization, the European Union, and so on.
But there's that other aspect of her which is not about xenophobia. And what was so incredible to me was in the first round, overwhelmingly in the overseas territories of Martinique and Guadeloupe, they voted for Melenchon. And then yesterday, they voted for her.
That's not because they like the three I's, it's because it's a vote to punish Macron and it's a vote for those that feel under-represented by mainstream politics, in other words Macron. The Yellow Jackets and then the COVID debacle which revealed the sort of the ways in which that sort of whole section of society -- health care workers, the essential workers, were ignored by him. And that's the upward struggle to deal with the emotional aspects of the Le Pen agenda. AMANPOUR: Ok. So I just want to push back a little bit on that because
in his campaign and his supporters, they actually pointed to his very proficient handling of COVID as one of the, you know, big pluses in his column.
Remember, ass you know, better than I do, France was one of the most vaccine skeptic countries --
THOMAS: Right.
AMANPOUR: -- in this whole region. And his gamble on insisting that people get vaccinated or face punitive measures, you know, barring them from access to things they like to do -- bars, clubs, social events -- that actually led to a 78 percent vaccination rate here --
THOMAS: It did.
AMANPOUR: -- higher than Germany, higher than the U.K., higher than the U.S.
THOMAS: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And actually, his unemployment rate is much lower than it has been historically. And his supporters point to a lot of economic indicators and social reforms that were very brave. He took gambles and they played out. And yet --
THOMAS: And yet, it's ironic. There's a lot of opposition because they saw -- or they see in him as this candidate, this sort of neither left nor right and the joke is if you're neither left there nor right you're right.
And the sort of the authoritarian aspect -- the police, the sort of law and order aspect of it and the rules and regulations around passes were things that people were upset about.
But at the end of the day, you have an electorate that is sort of off- compass. His mainstream political parties have disappeared. You have a proliferation of smaller parties in a winner takes all system.
And the big story of this election is really the failure of opposition parties to be able to create the kinds of coalitions that could've driven them into the second round which is a real distinction from the German system, which relies on coalition building.
But ironically, the French system has moved in that direction and Macron starting today needs to find a way to build coalitions or the legislators are going to make it impossible for him to run that branch of government.
AMANPOUR: Ok. So that's really interesting because the "Liberation", which is a very famous newspaper here, slightly center-left, very long-standing, very reputable. Their headliners -- and I'm just going to just put this up because it's actually really interesting the way -- the way they have done it. Essentially, they are saying, "Thank you to who?" You know, like you're giving somebody a present. And they're saying, thank you to the voters of France who made a huge leap for democracy and to band together in a kind of coalition, Dominic, to prevent the far-right taking these elections."
So if that coalition, de facto, exists, whether it's holding its nose or not. Does that make Macron's job easier, or more difficult to build going forward?
THOMAS: I think building forward is just simply an uphill struggle. The legislative, like the two round of elections, are pretty much overwhelmingly one-seat constituencies and they go to two rounds.
So you go back to 2017, Le Pen comes second, Melenchon fourth. They get eight and 17 seats out of 577. Even parties like the Republican and the Socialist have been --
AMANPOUR: Which are the center left and center right --
THOMAS: -- exactly. They have entrenched seats all over the country. It's very difficult for extreme candidates to make it through to the next round.
What is going to be interesting is between now and the legislatives, he needs to pick a prime minister. Either he keeps going with the one he has or he's going to get one -- from where? Right, left, center, et cetera? That's going to send a strong message.
But we already saw him reach out to environmentalists and talking about creating this sort of Joe Biden that will deal with environmental issues. And I think that's going to be very important going into this.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Especially for young voters, who did actually vote for her --
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: Yes. And the legislators are key to him, because without that it's a five years of a movement that he represents, which he's going to have to step away from in five year's time, and hope that he doesn't happen to him what happened to Hollande with the socialists.
[01:39:44]
THOMAS: And he has a responsibility to rebuild France and to make sure that his movement runs again in a political system that is increasingly moving to a three division sort of far-left, far right, and then the center. And the question is who the kingmaker is going to be moving forward?
AMANPOUR: Ok. So that's the inside nitty-gritty on the bigger picture.
One final question -- yes or no.
THOMAS: Yes. Yes.
AMANPOUR: The great democracy project, democracy versus autocracy which is what President Biden has laid out. Did that get a victory last night? I mean is it stronger?
THOMAS: Unambiguously. Marine Le Pen, no matter what she disguises herself as, her allies are (INAUDIBLE) and the AFP in Germany. And the Builders (ph) in the Netherlands. The European Union --
AMANPOUR: All the extreme right --
THOMAS: Exactly.
She does not need that distraction at this moment in history. It is unambiguously clear that small European countries that are not member of NATO or the European Union, do not fare well. And that's the path forward.
And hopefully, by not having Le Pen there, that distraction goes away. And we can focus on the bigger picture here, which are the democratic principles that were defended last night.
AMANPOUR: And let's just add that those democratic principles are being defended by the Ukrainians, not too far from where we are right now in this --
THOMAS: Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: -- in this war of aggression.
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Dominic, thank you so much indeed.
Now, when we come back, in other news -- we will be back with a lot of other news afterwards.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Michael Holmes.
In China, mass COVID testing starts today in Beijing's Chaoyang district potentially affecting more than 3 million people. The announcement came on Sunday after 11 cases were detected in Chaoyang within 24 hours.
The rush to contain the outbreak comes amid growing fears that more stringent measures could be in store as the country doubles down on its zero COVID policy.
[01:44:48]
HOLMES: CNN's Selina Wang joins me now from Kunming in China. Let's talk about the lockdown and particularly -- I mean Shanghai continues to get more severe. How are people coping?
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, people are still angry. They're desperate, many of them are still struggling to get access to enough food and medical care. Most of Shanghai's 25 million people have been locked in their homes for weeks, and still there is no end in sight.
And COVID-19 cases in the city still continue to grow, reporting more than 19,000 on Sunday, bringing the total to more than half a million total COVID-19 cases.
And you can see on Chinese social media video that Shanghai has even started to put up steel fences and barricades on public roads and around residential compounds. This is to block people from traveling to other districts and to border off -- to close off residential areas where positive COVID-19 cases have been found.
All of that only adding to the outrage in Shanghai, but despite that huge frustration, officials are still doubling down on its zero COVID policy.
So what does that mean? That means that every single positive case, regardless, no exceptions here has to go to a government quarantine facility.
We obtained video of a facility for elderly COVID-19 patients. And you can see in this video that there are these wood and steel beds and thin sheets used as bedding, leaving these elderly patients unattended. Patience in Shanghai right now, Michael, is running thin.
HOLMES: There have been a breaks in other parts of the country as well. What does the broader situation look like?
WANG: Yes. Omicron is not like the other variants, and it has led to several outbreaks across China. There are more than a dozen cities under some sort of lockdown. And even in the capital, Beijing, which China has tried to guard like a fortress, they've been dealing with a COVID-19 outbreak that officials have called grim and urgent.
More than 60 COVID-19 cases have been reported since Friday. And officials say that the outbreak has likely been circulating for already more than a week. They are mass testing one of the city's largest districts, Chaoyang, and some residential areas.
The people there have been told that they cannot leave their homes. We are seeing Beijing residents starting to stockpile food, more crowds at grocery stores, more empty shelves.
But we have yet to see the kind of panic and chaos that we had seen in Shanghai prior to their lockdown.
But all of this, in year three of the pandemic, to continue this zero COVID policy, it is leading more to question, that even though China has managed to keep the reported death count low, the question is, is the strategy worth the trade-off, Michael?
HOLMES: All right. Appreciate the reporting there, Selina, thanks. Selina Wang there in Beijing for us.
All right. Let's take a look at some of the other stories around the world.
U.S. President Joe Biden will visit Israel in the coming months. that's according to the office of the Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, after the two leaders spoke on Sunday. The announcement comes amid renewed clashes between Israeli police and Palestinians in Jerusalem.
There is no official date scheduled for the trip yet. It would be Mr. Biden's first visit to Israel as president. He previously went as vice president in 2010 and 2016.
Authorities in Nigeria say more than 100 people were killed in a blast at an illegal oil refinery early on Saturday, many of the dead, women and children. Illegal crude refining has long been an issue in the oil producing Niger Delta, largely due to unemployment and poverty.
Nigeria's president has promised to crack down on the practice calling Saturday's events a catastrophe.
Search and rescue crews in Lebanon still looking for survivors after a migrant boat capsized on Saturday near Tripoli. Navy officials say the boat was overloaded with about 60 people.
At least six of them drowned, 45 were rescued. Some of the survivors say the coast guard targeted their boat. But the navy says the boat's driver tried to evade authorities before striking a coast guard boat, causing the accident.
The crew of the first all-private mission to the International Space Station is on its way home. They left the space station on their SpaceX Dragon capsule few hours ago. The return process is autonomous so the four crew have reportedly paid $55 million a seat will be able to enjoy the departing views.
The mission was supposed to be ten days aboard the International Space Station, but was extended for five days due to weather. Actually, on company arranging the trip with SpaceX and NASA, says that it is planning many others like it.
After the break, the historic win for French President Emmanuel Macron we will revisit.
[01:49:52]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: The 2022 French presidential election now over with celebrations for Emmanuel Macron, after he secured a reelection victory. We look back now at this historic campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's important to do one's duty as a citizen. The future of democracy is at stake, and I don't want to fall into a farce. I think it's important to go and do your duty as a citizen, even if you don't necessarily agree with all of the candidates. We can, and must, block certain candidates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: France gave us everything. it's so lucky to have such a president in this period, someone on that level who made such sacrifices.
[01:54:49]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I won't be voting in this round, especially not for Macron.
LE PEN: We are going to form an opposition which is going to continue to defend and protect the cost of living, for example. More than ever I will pursue my commitment to France and the French. With that determination and the will that you know that I have.
MACRON: This year, this day, the 24th of April, a majority of us have voted to put their trust in me, the next president of France for the next five years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Thanks for watching everyone. We are awaiting a news conference from the U.S. Secretary of State and Defense Secretary after they held talks on Sunday in Kyiv with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We will bring that to you when it happens. Should be in just a few minutes.
I'm Michael Holmes. Our live coverage from France and Lviv continues after the break.
[01:56:25]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:00:00]
