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Interview With Kateryna Yushchenko, Former First Lady Of Ukraine: 8.3 Million People Could Flee Ukraine Into Neighboring Countries By The End Of The Year; Dems, GOP Eye Open PA Seat As Key To Senate Control; GOP Rep. Green Texted Meadows About Martial Law; Dramatic Video Shows Chaos On "Rust" Set Moments After Fatal Shooting. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 26, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: An estimated 8.3 million people could flee Ukraine into neighboring countries by the end of the year. This is according to the U.N. refugee agency, and this is nearly double the agency's initial projections.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: According to the U.N., more than 5 million Ukrainians have already left the country. We're joined now by the former first lady of Ukraine, Kateryna Yushchenko. Madam, thank you very much for being with us. We hear these numbers, and I know you're focused especially on the children who are impacted and displaced because of this war. What more can the world, should the world be doing, especially for the children?

KATERYNA YUSHCHENKO, FORMER FIRST LADY OF UKRAINE: Well, first, we're very thankful for every country that has taken in our people. I recently visited Poland that in a matter of 40 days had taken in 2 1/2 million Ukrainians. And so, the fact that the world has been so welcoming has really given us a great deal of hope. I have seen over the last few weeks that in fact, Ukrainians have started to return to Ukraine because I think that they believe that the end of the war, maybe not the end, but at least some progress will happen. And so, I don't know if I would necessarily believe the numbers that so many more people will be leaving.

CAMEROTA: But Mrs. Yushchenko, if this were -- let's say the war ends tomorrow, and God willing it does, there are so many millions of people who will return to demolished houses, and just demolished towns. How will they pick up their lives?

YUSHCHENKO: It's a difficult issue for our country and our government, and also for the world, and I think we expect some support from the world in this area. But it's something that everyone I met when I was in Poland, everyone I have talked to wants to go back and rebuild their cities, rebuild their houses, and whether we provide temporary houses until these buildings are rebuild, I'm not quite sure but I know that most people want to come back, very few want to stay where they are.

BLACKWELL: You tweeted about this referendum, this sham vote that's happening in Kherson. Russia forces have occupied that city for some time now. Now they have control of council.

You tweeted: A fake referendum to force residents to vote at gunpoint to join the Russian Federation, there's no choice when you're told to vote a certain way or die.

What this vote -- tell us what this vote means for the people left in that city and for this war more broadly?

YUSHCHENKO: You know, for weeks, the people of Kherson went out on the streets every day despite the shooting by Russian forces, not counting the tanks that were there. The people went out, and in fact, all of the people went out today saying that we do not want to join a so- called Russian world. We want to be part of Ukraine indeed we want to be part of a European world.

So, whatever happens two days from now in this sham referendum, people should not respect that. It's what happened in Crimea where people were forced at gunpoint to vote a certain way. You know, Putin is doing this because he needs to show something to his people that Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia, but that is not the fact.

CAMEROTA: And what does it mean that Russian forces now appear to be in control territorially and politically in Kherson and the town of Kreminna, how big of a setback is that for Ukraine?

YUSHCHENKO: You know, they have taken minor gains in parts of the south and parts of the east, but they have had huge losses everywhere else. You know, an arrogant, isolated and delusional Putin made a huge mistake and is now trying to salvage his reputation.

[15:35:00]

He's throwing all the rest of his forces and equipment to our east and our south, attempting to show some semblance of victory at his May 9th victory parade. But what he's achieved has been far short of what he hoped, what he planned, and what he promised his people. And instead of showing himself as an almighty military power, you know, the world has seen a disorganized army, whose main goals have been torture, rape, and looting.

You know, he wasn't able to take our city's militarily, so instead, he bombed them. There are constant air-raids in our country. From morning to night, we hear the sirens, and they fall randomly as we saw in Odessa. They fell on an apartment building which killed a 3-month-old child, her mother and her grandmother. And so, I think that Putin, instead of being a gatherer of lands as he envisioned himself has become nothing more than a baby killer.

CAMEROTA: Ukraine's former first lady, Kateryna Yushchenko, thank you very much, we really appreciate talking to you.

YUSHCHENKO: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Well, the 2022 midterms are creeping up on us, but it's the 2020 election, Donald Trump's baseless claims of voter fraud. Those are driving the primary debates. We'll talk about those ahead. [15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Pennsylvania's Senate primary is three weeks from today with outgoing GOP Senator Pat Toomey's seat up for grabs and Democrats eye as a key pickup opportunity.

CAMEROTA: Candidates squared off last night at the GOP debate. They were asked if it's time to move on for the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for the GOP to move past the 2020 election.

CARLA SANDS, (R) PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: Absolutely not. Senator Rand Paul said the election of 2020 was stolen by "Zuck buck" -- Mark Zuckerberg and his family and his friends -- changing the outcome of the election by private money controlling our election.

DAVE MCCORMICK, (R) PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: We have a tragedy here that most Republican voters of Pennsylvania don't believe in the integrity of the election, and there's all sorts of reasons to worry about it.

DR. MEHMET OZ, (R) PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: I have discussed with President Trump, and we cannot move on. We have to be serious about what happened in 2020 and we won't be able to address that until we can really look under the hood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right, let's talk about this with CNN political commentator and PBS Firing Line host, Margaret Hoover. Margaret, great to have you here.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be here.

CAMEROTA: The verbal gymnastics that the candidates were going through there. They're not saying I think that the election was stolen. They're saying, well, you see that Republican voters are very worried about it, that's fear mongering. I mean, not clarifying that the election had integrity and saying we need to still deal with this. That's fear mongering.

HOOVER: Well, in a varying shades of fear mongering that you saw there. I mean, you have people who are outright buying the lie, the big lie, and reinforcing the big lie to their constituents saying, you know what, we can't move on because Donald Trump is right, because he really won the election, and he should be -- and all the way to what Dave McCormick was doing there . Which was saying, well you know, people have doubts and if people have doubts, we can't move on.

And all there are different stages of doing something that's insidious. Which is continuing to provoke and to instill in people this sense that they should really doubt that Joe Biden won the election fair and square. And that the question about how you secure our elections is an entirely separate question, right. The fact that they just pivot. What they should do if they're smart, as good Republicans who want to win should say, Donald Trump lost the election, Joe Biden won, but Joe Biden is doing a terrible job, and here's what I would do in the Senate representing you to fix those policies. OK.

I mean, Republican strategists note for the honest, right, that would be a much better tact than to simply continue to whittle away at the confidence that the GOP base has in our election systems and frankly, believing a lie. It's a conspiracy theory. There's nothing else to it.

BLACKWELL: The five candidates on the stage last night put the matchup between Dr. Oz and Dave McCormick. Dr. Oz has the endorsement. And he said Trump -- I can't count how many times he squeezed that into the sentences. A lot of the Trump aides support McCormick but Oz has the endorsement. What do you make of that matchup? And what a McCormick win in the primary could mean for Donald Trump?

HOOVER: Listen, it's such a fascinating matchup between this celebrity doctor who was close friends with Melania Trump, and this self-made really honorable veteran. Dave McCormick served in the United States military. His wife, of course, served in the highest levels of the Trump White House, Dina Powell, and he hired Steven Miller.

Donald Trump's top policy advisor to work for him and his team. That just shows how loyalty is such a fickle game in the Trump White House and in the Trump world. That, you know, you can have the closest Trump confidants and accolades on your staff, you can bend over to Donald Trump as much as you can possibly live with yourself, and it's still not enough to not gain his endorsement, and loyalty is such a --

CAMEROTA: One-way street.

HOOVER: It's not a -- it's a definitely a one-way street but it's also there's no coherent standard for the application of loyalty in Trump world.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene --

BLACKWELL: OK, let's do it.

CAMEROTA: -- and whether or not she should be disqualified from being in the House of Representatives. So, you know, there's this trial going on about that. And one of the things they've brought up was she aware of the attempt to interfere and turn over -- well, just not certify Joe Biden's win.

[15:45:00]

So, here's how she's phrased it in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Question, if you were aware that somebody was going to unlawfully interfere with the constitutional process of counting electoral votes, you would be obliged to have them arrested or stopped, right?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I had no knowledge of any attempt and so that's a question that I can't answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well --

GREENE: I can't answer that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: She says she had no knowledge of anybody trying to interfere except that she was trying to interfere. Here is the evidence of that. This is a December 31st text she sent to Mark Meadows:

"Good morning, Mark, I'm here in D.C., we have to get organized for the 6th. I would like to meet with Rudy Giuliani again. We didn't get to speak with him long, also anyone who can help. We're getting a lot of members on board and we need to lay out the best case for each state. I'll be over at CPI this afternoon."

She was trying to overturn it.

HOOVER: So, I mean, this is such an interesting question on so many points. First of all, I've done a little bit of research on Georgia 14 and happen to know that she has a very strong, very constitutionally observant primary opponent running against her in five weeks, named Jennifer Strahan.

If you don't like Marjorie Taylor Greene, how about just go vote for her primary opponent, and you guys can solve this problem on your own. And I think Democrats who are trying to fundraise for a Democrat to win in a Trump -- that's like 80 percent Republican district should just divert their resources.

To your point on the substance, Alisyn, I mean, she's either perjuring herself or it would be news to her primary base that she actually didn't care about Joe Biden winning the election. Hypocrisy is the cardinal sin in politics except in the Trump era. And so, the question honestly is, is her district paying attention to this kind of coverage.

And the truth is, when you look at the folks in Georgia 14, they are not always aware of the conspiracy theories, of the hugging white nationalism, of the fact that she believes that school shootings are false flag operations. I mean, this woman is truly a stain on the Congress and on our representative democracy, and she does not deserve to be here. The way she gets out is if the good people of Georgia 14 vote for a better representative in their primary in five weeks.

CAMEROTA: Well, the information is out there if they want to pay attention. So, Margaret Hoover thank you.

HOOVER: And I hope they do.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you.

BLACKWELL: Thanks Margaret.

Dramatic never before seen video from the set of the "Rust" movie. It shows the chaos that ensued just moments after that fatal shooting.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have new dramatic video that shows the moments following that fatal shooting on the "Rust" movie set on body cam footage. You can see paramedics trying to save cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after she was shot in the chest.

There's also video of Alec Baldwin drawing a gun and pointing it toward the camera while rehearsing a scene for the film. CNN's Nick Watt is following developments there for us. Nick, investigators, I understand, also released video of their initial interview with Alec Baldwin.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Victor. They did, and now six months after that fatal shooting, we do have a better idea of what exactly happened that morning, thanks to that interview and thanks to a lot of this video that was shot in the immediate aftermath. As Alisyn mentioned, a lot of it body cam video worn by first responders. Now we are not going to show you Halyna Hutchins on the ground fighting for her life but watch and listen as EMTs fight to save her life on that set in the church.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was she shot at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the right side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came in here. It went across her chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And came out the back and it went into him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want an air flight?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we got one en route.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One female shot in the chest. Male shot in the stomach. How's it going, sir? So, my understanding is -- were you in the room?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I was holding the gun, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: So, Alec Baldwin was holding the gun. He did not know there was a live round in that gun. Apparently, there was. And when he went during the rehearse while the gun went off, this projectile apparently went through Halyna Hutchins and into the director, Joel Souza.

Now, Baldwin was taken down to a sheriff's post where he was interviewed. He asked, am I being charged with anything? He was told no, this is just an interview. Take a listen to a little bit of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I put it in the holster, I pull it out slow but rehearsing. Not filming anything. I pull it out slow, turn, cock the pistol, bang, it goes off and she hits the ground. If that's a bullet that was pulled out of his shoulder, someone loaded a live round into the gun I was holding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Now, that is the biggest question in this case, and it remains unanswered. How did a live round find its way onto the set and into that weapon?

[15:55:00]

Now, about this release of all the evidence this morning, the sheriff in Santa Fe County drew particular attention to a string of text messages sent by the armorer on the "Rust" set to a colleague a couple months before the "Rust" production began. And in those texts, she was asking about the possibility of firing live ammunition from a prop gun. Her colleague replied, it's a serious mistake.

Always ends in tears. Now, her lawyer said that she just wanted to find out how the gun worked and that she did not in fact, fire any live rounds from that weapon. The criminal investigation, guys, continues.

BLACKWELL: All right, Nick Watt, thank you very much.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)