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Charlie Dent Is Interviewed About McCarthy's Comments; Ukraine War Worsens U.S. Energy Prices; Evgenia Kara-Murza Is Interviewed About Russia. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired April 27, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:40] a

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Now to that bombshell reporting overnight from "The New York Times." New audio highlights how concerned House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy was about far right GOP members possibly inciting violence in the aftermath of January 6th.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Well, he's putting people in jeopardy. And he doesn't need to be doing this. We saw what people are would do in the Capitol. You know, and these people came prepared with like rope, with everything else.

Tension is too high, the country is too crazy. I do not want to look back and think we caused something or we missed something and someone got hurt. And I don't want to play politics with any of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So let's bring in former Republican Pennsylvania congressman and CNN political commentator Charlie Dent. He's also the executive director of the Aspen Institute Congressional Program.

Charlie, always great to see you.

So, listen, rational, responsible language, even, from Kevin McCarthy. The only issue is that's not what we heard from him publicly over the last 15 months. What does that tell you about secretly and privately what he was saying versus what he had been saying out loud?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Bianna, this has been a continuing problem, not just for Kevin McCarthy, but for other members of the House GOP conference who privately have very serious misgivings and are very angry with the former president, privately, and say things like you just displayed on the screen that were quite rational and quite correct.

But their public comments are very different because of the grip that Trump has over the party's base, and, of course, in the case of Kevin McCarthy, he wants to become speaker, and he needs to make sure that the fringe elements within his conference support him.

And so he's trying to walk this very fine line, this delicate balancing act. And I think it's a real problem because, OK, should he become speaker, and that -- we don't know if that will be the case, but should he become speaker, it feels like the Trump and other fringe elements within the House Republican Conference have leverage over him and that would weaken his ability to govern as a speaker.

So, I think this is an enormous problem that not only Kevin McCarthy faces, but the House Republican Conference must address at some point, this challenge that they have with the former president.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and what was clear just four days after the attack of the Capitol was that, in his view, in the view of others in leadership, was that they didn't want to bear responsibility for any of the violence in the aftermath. And that is not the role or the message that he had been sending over the past 15 months as he had been speaking out trying to get that endorsement from -- and support from President Trump.

Let's also play another part of the audio where McCarthy was specifically asked about Matt Gaetz and Representative Mo Brooks.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): So, I'm calling Gaetz. I'm explaining to him, I don't what I'm going to say, but I'm gong to have some other people call him too. But the nature of what -- if I'm getting a briefing, I'm going to get another one from the FBI tomorrow -- this is serous (EXPLETIVE DELETED), to cut this out.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Yes, that's -- that's -- that's (INAUDIBLE). I mean, it's potentially illegal what he's doing.

MCCARTHY: Well, he's putting people in jeopardy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: We don't have the comment on Mo Brooks. That was specifically about Matt Gaetz. And there you heard Representative Scalise as well saying that potentially criminal some of the language that he's inciting.

Let's play for you -- or actually I'm going to read for you a response that -- from Matt Gaetz to this audio.

[09:35:04]

And he said Representative McCarthy and Representative Scalise held views about President Trump and me that they shared on sniveling calls with Liz Cheney, not us. This is the behavior of weak men, not leaders.

I'm just curious because Kevin McCarthy was also asked yesterday whether any of these tapes would damage his ability to be leader. And he said no. What do you think about all of it?

DENT: Well, I suspect, you know, Kevin McCarthy may be able to wriggle his way out of this one for the moment. But it should be noted that Donald Trump has not yet endorsed him for speaker. And, you know, if there is a small majority, if the Republicans win the majority and they have a small majority, it only will take a handful of members to, you know, prevent him from ascending to the speakership, just like what happened in 2015 where he attempted to ascend, but at that time it was members of the Freedom Caucus blocked him. So, I think Kevin McCarthy has to be concerned about it.

And, by the way, what he said about Matt Gaetz was correct, and Steve Scalise. They were right. The incendiary, reckless comments, the dangerous comments of some of these members who were, you know, really -- get on the edge of inciting violence needed to be -- really needed to be clamped down on. They're right about it. I just wish they would follow their initial instincts with the correct ones.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

DENT: And -- and because -- but by not cracking down on them, they've emboldened them and empowered them, these fringe elements, who were just making all their lives difficult.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, being the voice of reason in private doesn't seem to be very helpful.

DENT: Yes. Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Charlie Dent, thank you, as always.

DENT: Thank you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, up next, Russia's war on Ukraine may be thousands of miles away, but it's having a very real impact on energy prices here in the U.S. We'll tell you how.

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[09:41:26]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news in to CNN. Russian state TV has just aired new video of what it says is Trevor Reed as he arrived at a Moscow airport before his later departure from the country. He's being escorted, you can see there, to a plane by uniformed soldiers. Unclear when this footage was shot. You can see Trevor Reed there appearing to bear the weight of his three years in detention in Russia on his shoulders.

Reed, as we reported earlier, has been exchanged for Russian national Konstantin Yaroshenko, who had been imprisoned in the U.S. for nearly -- well, more than a decade. This in a prisoner swap. It's our information, and we just spoke with the State Department spokesman, Trevor Reed is now in the air on his way home. He has spoken to the president and spoken to his family crucially as well.

We'll continue to bring you updates on what we know about his condition.

Russia's war on Ukraine is making the problem of skyrocketing U.S. utility costs even worse. Across the nation, winter moratoriums on shutting off gas and power services are now ending and families, many families, struggling to keep up. Some of them could soon lose electricity.

CNN's Gabe Cohen spoke with some customers in New York battling the consequences of rising energy prices.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALI ZAIDI, UTILITY CONSUMER: This is kind of when the chaos really started.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ali Azidi lays out six months of baffling power bills for his house in Beacon, New York. The price rising from $190 to more than $400.

ZAIDI: That's the day I told my roommates, hey, we've kind of got to buckle down.

COHEN: And this month, a bill for $2,000.

ZAIDI: It had to have been a mistake.

COHEN: It wasn't.

ZAIDI: They said that this was a reconciliation over the last six months. According to this, it should have been between $700 and $800 per month.

COHEN: Millions of Americans are seeing surging utility bills, with huge hikes on fuel oil, propane, pipe gas, and electricity.

COHEN (on camera): How did the company explain the price hike?

ZAIDI: The first thing that they said was their cost have tripled.

COHEN (voice over): The natural gas market is largely driving that and the war in Ukraine is adding fuel to the fire.

RICHARD BERKLEY, PUBLIC UTILITY LAW PROJECT OF NY: Because of the war in Ukraine, which is continuing to get worse, those prices are going to stay high for the remainder of the year and maybe longer.

COHEN: Lower income families are being crushed, spending on average 38 percent of their income on energy, up from 27 percent just two years ago. And the timing is terrible, with rising inflation on food, rent, clothing and much more. A survey found half of Americans are now worried about affording power.

REV. THOMAS JOHNSON, RECEIVED SHUTOFF NOTICE: I'm very conscious of it, and a little paranoid.

COHEN: Reverend Thomas Johnson and his wife had been keeping the lights off at their home in Queens. Their rate keeps rising and they owe the power company $13,000 after they were hit with a massive reconciliation bill.

JOHNSON: I'm saying to myself, am I going to have to take out a second mortgage just to pay an energy bill? That doesn't make any sense.

COHEN: Eighteen percent of American households are in debt to their power company, owing roughly $23 billion. Now many families, like Reverend Johnson's, are facing a shutoff notice.

JOHNSON: So we really have our back up against a wall.

COHEN: Most states ban shutoffs during the cold of winter, but those moratoriums are ending.

JEAN SU, ENERGY JUSTICE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY: We expect to see an explosion in shutoffs happening in the next few months.

COHEN: In the past year, the Biden administration has more than doubled funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, or LIHEAP, which, before that, was only reaching 17 percent of eligible households.

SU: It's just simply not enough.

[09:45:01]

What we're asking for is just for greater reform and a stop to all shutoffs across the country.

COHEN: This crisis has put energy companies under the microscope. In Washington, the House Energy and Commerce Committee is investigating six of the nation's largest power companies. After they took Covid bailout money and still shut power to millions of homes.

In New York, the state has launched several investigations into potential price gauging by both the oil industry and utility companies.

JAMES SKOUFIS (D), NEW YORK STATE SENATE: It's a crisis for my constituents.

COHEN: State Senator James Skoufis is leading one of them.

SKOUFIS: They're being ripped off. To have a modest home be hit with a $1,400, $1,500 bill is patently insane. And people are making money off of it. And they should be ashamed of themselves. And they've got to be held accountable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Now, power companies say they're just passing along their own increased costs from a particularly cold winter, surging demand, and supply shortages. We will see if these investigations turn up anything else. And, Jim, the two customers in that story are both disputing their

bills, but they're preparing to pay them off if need be because that is the price of keeping the lights on.

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question. Don't want to be faced with that for sure.

Gabe Cohen, in Washington, thanks so much.

Still ahead, Putin's plans, propaganda, is all most Russians see and hear today. So, what does the average Russian think about the events now unfolding across the border here in Ukraine about this war? What do they know? We'll have more coming up.

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[09:51:03]

GOLODRYGA: This morning, as most of the world watches Russia's invasion of Ukraine in horror, the latest polling out of Russia shows a majority of citizens strongly supporting the Kremlin's actions, or at least they support Vladimir Putin. This is due in large part to Russia's massive propaganda machine.

Just listen to what people in Moscow said when asked about how long this war could last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think it will be soon. Well, because everyone is tired of it. It seems to me that even Putin is tired of this, you know, petty intrigue. We need to throw more powerful weapons in there and just put an end to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I can't even guess. I thought it would take three days, but somehow our military is sparing the Ukrainians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think that Ukraine should be completely wiped off the face of the earth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Well, I think that there's no war at all. It's all politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: My next guest is Evgenia Kara-Murza. She is the project manager for the Free Russia Foundation. And she's also married to prominent Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara-Murza, who was arrested outside of his home in Moscow on April 12th, just hours after he criticized the Russian government during an interview with CNN.

Evgenia, good to see you again. Thank you so much for joining us.

It is my understanding that you haven't spoken with Vladimir in a while now. You just communicate through his lawyer. How is he doing?

EVGENIA KARA-MURZA, PROJECT MANAGER, FREE RUSSIA FOUNDATION: Good morning, Bianna. Thank you very much for having me here today.

Yes, Vladimir has recently joined the ever growing list of prisoners of conscience in the Russian Federation. He's been charged with disseminating, as the Russian government calls it, knowingly false information about the use of Russian armed forces in Ukraine. And he's facing up to 10 years in prison for using every platform available to him for speaking out against this war and for raising awareness and denouncing Russian army's atrocities in Ukraine and the Russian regime's wide scale oppressions against the Russian population.

I haven't talked to him in a few days already because since they opened this criminal case against him, I'm not able to have any direct contact with him. Only through his lawyer. But he continues sending me messages through his lawyer and we continue to communicate like this.

GOLODRYGA: I'm just wondering, when you hear this propaganda on Russian state media, and I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard it, you know, there are conflicting reports as to how accurate some of these polls are given that you live in a totalitarian state. A lot of people are fearful of telling the truth about how they feel.

That having been said, Vladimir Putin is still very popular. Surprisingly popular in that country. How do you square that with the message that Vladimir is obviously willing to risk his life for to send to the country that he loves?

KARA-MURZA: I am absolutely sure when I say this, you cannot believe opinion polls conducted in a totalitarian state. We cannot forget that Putin's propaganda machine has been working tirelessly over two decades. And in a country where the majority of the population still relies on the -- on TV as the main source of information, there is not one single independent TV channel available to the population.

And all state-controlled TV channels repeat the same message over and over and over again about the nature of wanting Russia's demise, about the west's desire to see Russia on its knees, about Russia being surrounded by enemies, et cetera, et cetera. You switch channels and you hear the same message over and over again.

The last independent media outlet, the Echo Moscow radio station, was closed down at the beginning of the war.

[09:55:00]

So, a big part of the Russian population is severely, painfully brainwashed by this information. They have no access to objective independent information about what's happening in Ukraine. In other words, they think we don't know about the Russian army's atrocities in Bucha, in Mariupol, about the bombings of maternity wards and the bombings -- the killings, mass killings of civilian population there. So, it is extremely urgent that this -- that ways are found for the Russian population to have access to independent objective media.

And when we talk about the younger segment of the population, that is tech savvier, that is online more, even they encounter problems with access to independent media outlets because many websites of independent media have been blocked since the beginning of the war. Facebook, Instagram have been blocked by the Russian government.

GOLODRYGA: Right.

KARA-MURZA: So in order to access to these outlets, they need to find ways. Their video (ph) services, for example, that you can install to access these blocked websites, but free media (ph) services are not very reliable.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Evgenia --

KARA-MURZA: Yes. Yes, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Evgenia, I am so sorry we are pressed for time. Listen, we always say that Vladimir Putin is ruining two countries. Not only just trying to decimate Ukraine, but clearly hurting his own citizens as well. Your husband's next hearing will be June 12th. We will continue to follow his story as well.

Evgenia, thank you so much. Evgenia Kara-Murza.

KARA-MURZA: Thank you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And coming up in our next hour, we're continuing to follow breaking developments in the release of American Trevor Reed from a Russian prison. What it took to make it all happen. We'll have those details up next after the break.

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