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Interview With U.S. Ambassador to Russia John Sullivan; Trevor Reed Reunites With Family; U.S. Economic Growth Slows; President Biden Asks Congress for $33 Billion in Ukraine Aid. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 28, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Victor is off today.

President Biden is asking Congress for another $33 billion to help Ukraine fight the Russian invasion, while the Kremlin is warning other countries not to help Ukraine, or they will receive a -- quote -- "harsh response" from Russia. But President Biden says caving to Russia would cost even more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The cost of this fight, it's not cheap, but caving to aggression is going to be more costly if we allow it to happen.

We're not attacking Russia. We're helping Ukraine defend itself against Russian aggression. And just as Putin chose to launch this brutal invasion, he could make the choice to end this brutal invasion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, the British defense secretary says Russian President Vladimir Putin may be trying to dig in like a -- quote -- "cancerous growth" within Ukraine.

On the ground, Ukrainians are reporting their challenges are being bombarded across three eastern regions, Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk. Still, the U.S. assesses that Russia is making only slow and uneven, incremental progress in the east.

Russia appears to be trying to wipe out the Ukrainian identity in the city of Kherson, appointing their own officials to the city council, and, according to a local Ukrainian councilman, replacing the local currency with the ruble and threatening Ukrainian teachers.

CNN's Anderson Cooper joins us now from Kyiv, Ukraine.

Anderson, we know the secretary-general of the United Nations just was there meeting with President Zelenskyy in Kyiv, right where you are. And then we just heard about some large explosions there. So what's happening on the ground? ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, Alisyn, the mayor of Kyiv said -- and

I quote -- "The enemy fired on Kyiv. There were two hits in on -- in one district."

He added that: "All services are working on the scene and information about casualties is being clarified." That's a direct quote from the mayor, Klitschko.

As you mentioned, President Zelenskyy just wrapped up a meeting with the U.N. secretary-general, Guterres, who had met with Vladimir Putin yesterday. He toured -- or two days ago, I should say. He toured Bucha today, and said that Ukraine is the epicenter of heartache and pain, and he pledged to boost the U.N. efforts across the board to try and help Ukraine.

Guterres also met with Russian President Vladimir Putin a couple of days ago, told me that the meeting was useful, in his words, and then he made it clear it is only Russia that can stop this war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: Again, the war will not end with meetings. The war will end -- will end when the Russian Federation decides to end it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Want to bring in CNN's Matt Rivers with me in Kyiv.

We just heard these pretty large explosions, I think a couple of miles from here.

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, not that far away. But we can see the smoke from the hotel.

As is always the case due to the martial law that Ukraine is under right now, we can't report certain information, because Ukraine says that can help Russia better target its strikes and give them information about what they hit.

But what we can say is kind of what we said off the top there, is what the mayor of Kyiv said. He talked about two different strikes happening in a district in Kyiv. This district, it is in the city. And this is something that people here -- you have been out on the streets the last couple of days. People have been kind of living their life, right, kind of going about their business.

And yet it does kind of strike through that maybe temporary sense of calm, when you do see -- you hear these explosions, you see the black smoke, and it's in a district that isn't that far outside of the center part of Kyiv. So this is something we're going to be looking at quite closely, seeing exactly what was hit, when we get more information from the Ukrainians.

And it was just about 10 days ago that a suburb of Kyiv was also hit by a cruise missile strike in a place called Brovary. So we are seeing these missile strikes continuing, even though the vast majority of the fighting right now we're seeing in both the south and the eastern part of the country.

COOPER: It's also interesting that these strikes continue with the high-level delegations that have come.

You had Secretary Austin coming here, along with the defense -- with Secretary of State Blinken, leaving, assuming, on a train, which they had talked about, and then train lines were hit in the west. You have the U.N. secretary-general here today, and then these explosions.

RIVERS: I mean, that sends a message, doesn't it?

I mean, Russia knows that the U.N. secretary-general is here going to a place like Bucha. They know that he's probably staying somewhere in and around central Kyiv. He's not probably staying in some suburb somewhere. And yet they still go ahead. If this strike is to be confirmed from the Russians -- and we're still getting that information -- it is sending a message.

I mean, the message you just said about Lloyd Austin goes to a train station. A few hours later the Russians hit it with a missile. The secretary-general is here. It makes you wonder if the mission of the U.N. secretary-general very specifically very specifically right now is to try and get these humanitarian corridors open, he just came from Russia.

[14:05:12]

Now he's here. And yet there's an explosion in Kyiv while he's here. And it makes you wonder what the prospects are for success for him.

COOPER: Yes.

Matt Rivers, appreciate it.

CNN's Sam Kiley joins me now from Kramatorsk in Eastern Ukraine.

Sam, what are you seeing there?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, here, again, we have seen surface-to-air missiles, the Ukrainian attempt to shoot-down something just at dusk here, part of the ongoing process of the Ukrainians trying to defend themselves against what the Russians are calling their second phase.

Now, in the last 24 hours, the town of Rubizhne in the -- about 20 miles north of here, fell to the Russians. They're pressing on Lyman, another very close to that, bombarding Severodonetsk, and the outskirts of Slovyansk too, which is almost a satellite of Kramatorsk, where I'm talking to you from now.

So what we're seeing across the board here is an increasing pressure, which I have to say, the local authorities here think that this is just the beginning of what they anticipate will be a much more energetic Russian attempt to try to squeeze into this enclave, effectively, of government-held territory, perhaps deriving north from Izyum -- Anderson.

COOPER: Officials in Mariupol are warning that it's vulnerable to epidemics, given the appalling sanitary conditions and the fact that maybe thousands of bodies have remained uncollected.

Are you hearing anything else from Mariupol?

KILEY: Well, this was a statement put out by the administration, effectively, the administration in exile from Mariupol. But, clearly they have got very good connections with people still there.

There are still believed to be about 100,000 people living under now Russian tutelage, with that small, relatively small enclave of civilians and about a few hundred soldiers still hanging -- holding out in the steelworks on the edge of the city.

But Mariupol is a city that, certainly, for more than a month has had no running water, has been almost completely destroyed. Food supplies are very limited. And health authorities are warning Anderson, that the raising in temperature -- it's now, they're saying, frequently hitting 20 degrees Centigrade in Mariupol -- that means that bugs, infections and viruses, bacteria can all grow and flourish as the temperatures increase on an already vulnerable population.

This is not a population that has quite literally any fat on the bones. They do not have the capability to deal with any kind of infection. There are no medical facilities there, other than what the Russian occupiers will be bringing in. There are very, very limited access to food, no access to medications, and no clean running water.

So, inevitably, the authorities are warning already of bacterial infections and the dangers, very real danger of a cholera outbreak. And if cholera breaks out in a vulnerable population such as that -- and we have seen this over the world over many years -- it can have an absolutely devastating and extremely rapid effect, Anderson.

COOPER: Sam Kiley, appreciate it. Thank you.

President Biden called on Congress today to give $33 billion more in financial aid to Ukraine. He also responded to recent comments from Russia's foreign minister on the threat of nuclear war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: No one should be making idle comments about the use of nuclear weapons or the possibility they would use that. And it is irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us.

Kaitlan, this is a huge financial package. What's in it?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's massive, Anderson. It's more than double the last package that Congress approved to go to Ukraine last month. Remember, that one has about $14 billion.

Now we're talking about $33 billion that President Biden is asking Congress for. And when you look at what's inside this package, it's over $20 billion for military assistance. That's the weaponry, the ammunition that we have seen flow into Ukraine over the last several months. They want over $20 billion more of that; $8.5 million (sic) is for economic assistance.

That's to help keep the Ukrainian government running, help keep it functioning. And then about $3 billion is for humanitarian assistance, for food security, for people who are still there in Ukraine that, of course, as Sam was just noting, so desperately need all the help that they can get.

And so this is just a request that the president is making to Congress. It's not clear what's actually going to happen to it on Capitol Hill. Yes, there's a lot of support on Capitol Hill for Ukraine. But there have been some deep disagreements over COVID-19 funding, over immigration.

And so it remains to be seen if this is something that gets really tied up in that. That's something that Congress is going to have to deal with, though President Biden is calling on them to pass it and to pass it quickly.

And the way that they envision this playing out, Anderson, is that this $33 billion would be enough to last Ukraine for the next five months, to be able to make them successful in fending off these Russian forces. That would run through the end of the fiscal year here, of course, in the United States.

[14:10:10]

And so it remains to be seen what happens after that, but it does show that they do believe that this war is going to go on for at least five more months, that Ukraine needs $33 billion to help continue fending off these Russian forces, over $20 billion in weaponry.

And so we should note that this also came as -- when President Biden was talking about this today, talking about how the cost of this fight is not going to be cheap.

But he noted that the cost of inaction is much higher than this, of letting Russia do what it's doing. And also he noted, Anderson, the Ukrainians are the ones paying the real price here, because, of course, they're paying with their lives.

COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

Kaitlan, thanks so much.

Alisyn, let's go back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Anderson. Stay safe. Come back to us if you hear any more explosions, and we will check back. So, for the first time in more than two years, American Trevor Reed is

back on us soil. Overnight, the former Marine was reunited with his mother and father. He was released in exchange for a Russian national convicted of drug smuggling.

So what went on behind the scenes to get to this point?

Let's bring in the U.S. ambassador to Russia, Ambassador John Sullivan.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for your time and for being here.

So, just walk us through the negotiations and what it took to get Trevor Reed back home.

JOHN SULLIVAN, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Well, thanks, Alisyn. It's great to be with you today.

Yes, it's a joyous day today for the Reed family, for me, for my colleagues in the U.S. government, for all Americans that Trevor was free. He was convicted years ago of a crime he didn't commit. And, as you know, he has been -- he's been released.

This is a matter of time that we have been in discussion, his case, along with other Americans who have been detained here, principally Paul Whelan and now others who have been detained recently.

I have been in discussions with the Russian government for years over those cases. The talks have ebbed and flowed over time, as the interest in the Russian government in pursuing a release for these Americans have -- has gone up and down.

So, in recent weeks, in particular, because of the deterioration that we saw in Trevor's health, we have been engaged with the Russian government on his release. So those discussions ultimately culminated, as you noted, in the decision by President Biden to commute the sentence of a Russian criminal who had been in U.S. prisons for a very long period of time serving a narcotics sentence.

And that trade was executed on Wednesday.

CAMEROTA: And you brought up the other Americans. Brittney Griner obviously is still there, and Paul Whelan.

And Paul Whelan -- CNN obtained a statement that Paul Whelan gave yesterday upon the news of Trevor Reed's release, and he says -- quote -- "Why was I left behind? While I am pleased that Trevor is home with his family, I have been held on a fictitious charge of espionage for 40 months. The world knows this charge was fabricated. Why hasn't more been done to secure my release?"

What's your answer to that?

SULLIVAN: Well, I couldn't agree with Paul more, in the sense that he has been convicted of a fabricated charge. I have been advocating for his release both publicly and in

negotiations with the Russian government since before I got here as ambassador, when I was deputy secretary of state when Paul was originally arrested back in December of 2018. I have said that since I arrived here in -- as ambassador in January of 2020.

We have no higher priority and President Biden has no higher priority than the release of all Americans who are wrongfully detained here. This is just one step, Alisyn. This case, Trevor's case, is just one step.

I have already -- I have never relented in my advocacy for Paul in an engagement with the Russian government for Paul's release. And my hope and expectation is that we will ultimately see that lead to -- lead to success with Paul's release. He should be home in Michigan with his family, with his elderly parents, and I have no higher priority.

There are any number of other Americans here. You have mentioned one quite prominent American, a wonderful American, hugely talented, two- time Olympic gold medalist Brittney Griner, who was arrested approximately two months ago here. And we have a number of other Americans, Alisyn, who are not as well-known as Brittney. And each and every one of them is of great concern to me.

So I'm happy today that Trevor was released, but I'm focused even more so on working on Paul's release, Brittney's case, and those other Americans.

[14:15:09]

CAMEROTA: So, Mr. Ambassador, I know that you have described U.S.- Russia relations as very bad.

In fact, I think you're quoted as saying as bad as they have ever been. Is this because of the war in Ukraine or something that predates it?

SULLIVAN: Well, the war in Ukraine has driven U.S.-Russia relations into the depths.

I have previously in interviews referred to the Mariana Trench, the deepest point in the ocean in the Pacific. We're in a low. I'm not sure that it's necessarily the deepest ever in U.S.-Soviet relations. The Cuban Missile Crisis comes to mind.

But it's about as bad as it could be. It was bad to begin with. U.S.- Russia relations were bad when I arrived here in January of 2020. They have just gotten worse, spiraled downward since then. And now they have -- the -- they have reached a point where we have very little engagement with the Russian government.

I speak to the Russian government about our detained Americans here, those unjustly detained, Paul Whelan, Brittney Griner, the others, and the functioning of our embassy and keeping our embassy open, so that I can continue to have those conversations.

But there's very little else. It's not business as usual. And business as usual, before February 24, was very little business to begin with.

CAMEROTA: The U.N. secretary-general just told Anderson Cooper, this war will not end with meetings. It will end when Russia decides to end it.

What do you think we will get Vladimir Putin to end this war?

SULLIVAN: Well, first, I couldn't agree with the secretary-general more -- more -- excuse me.

This war started with a decision by President Putin. This war will end with a decision by President Putin. This is a war of choice by one man, by one government, an aggressive war of choice, where we have seen horrific atrocities committed on a sovereign country led by a democratically elected government.

And what -- the strategy that the Biden administration has pursued with our allies and partners is first to provide enormous support in security assistance, humanitarian assistance, development assistance, direct financial support to the Ukrainian government. That's first.

Second, to impose enormous costs, extraordinary costs, financial sanctions, export controls, port closures, airspace closures, on the Russian government, and, finally, bolstering the security of NATO, reaffirming, recommitting each and every NATO member to our commitments to each other and strengthening the eastern flank of NATO.

But, ultimately, I agree with the secretary-general. This will ultimately be -- ultimately have to be a decision by President Putin. And we're going to do all we can to make sure that that decision is a strategic defeat for him and his government, and not a victory for him in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: As you know, there's the specter of nuclear war that hangs over all of this, because, in part, the Russians keep bringing it up, and not totally putting it off the table. And so are there diplomatic efforts going on behind the scenes to keep the Russians from considering that option?

SULLIVAN: Well, Alisyn, I couldn't agree with you more.

This rhetoric, which we have seen escalate in an irresponsible way, a dramatically irresponsible way recently, isn't new. The Russian government, senior Russian leaders have brought up to me in discussions I have had with them about Ukraine, security in Europe -- a conversation that has begun is a discussion about what in the past were issues related to Ukraine.

For example, you may recall the Minsk Agreements and trying to find a path forward for a political solution in Ukraine. That conversation would spiral with the introduction by the Russian government, by Russian interlocutors of statements saying that, if the United States, if NATO continued to support the fascists, the Nazis, the genocidal Nazis in Ukraine, that could lead to nuclear confrontation, referencing the Cuban Missile Crisis, nuclear weapons. And my reaction the other side of the table is astonishment. And I say

we have gone from zero to 60, from a discussion of implementation of the Minsk Agreements to nuclear war? And unfortunately, what we have seen most recently is, at the most senior levels of the U.S. government, an escalation of that risk -- that rhetoric.

[14:20:01]

What have we done in response? We have done the responsible thing. The president, Secretary Austin paused and then canceled a missile test that we had scheduled that we had notified the Russian government long in advance of, because we do not engage in irresponsible rhetoric with respect to nuclear weapons.

We do not play nuclear brinkmanship in this context. And we have communicated that to the Russians. We have heard their rhetoric. We're prepared. We're prepared to deter nuclear aggression against the United States, as we have been for decades back into time with the Soviet Union. We won't succumb to nuclear blackmail.

But we won't tolerate nuclear saber-rattling and nuclear brinkmanship.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador John Sullivan, you have your work cut out for you. Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us.

SULLIVAN: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, U.S. economic growth plunged in the first quarter of this year, but many economists say not to panic so what this really means for you.

And, parents of young children, the wait may finally be over. Moderna is asking for emergency use authorization for its vaccine for kids 6 months old to 5 years old -- what you need to know about this next.

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[14:25:45]

CAMEROTA: The U.S. economy shrank sharply in the first quarter of 2022, GDP plunging 1.4 percent.

This is the worst economic report since the pandemic began two years ago. President Biden, though, says he's not worried about an imminent recession.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well, I'm not concerned about a recession. I mean, you're always concerned about a recession, but the GDP fell to 1.4 percent.

But here's the deal. We also had -- last quarter, consumer spending and business investment and residential investment increased at significant rates, both for leisure as well as hard products.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar joins me now.

OK, so, Rana, the president said: I'm not concerned about recession, but you're always concerned about recession.

Riddle us this one.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yes.

CAMEROTA: How should Americans see this?

FOROOHAR: Well, it's somewhere in the middle of, don't worry about recession, and we have just had the worst economic report in two years.

Look, we were still seeing a little bit of a pickup in consumer spending from that reopening last year. Everybody went out and bought things, did things, went traveling. So we're still seeing that follow through the numbers.

At the same time, inflation is starting to bite. It's making our exports more expensive. It's making imports more expensive. That's hitting the GDP number, so a lot of technical stuff going on here. What people think to pay attention to -- and, frankly, what I hope policymakers pay attention to is the fact that inflation is starting to make people think about nondiscretionary purchases.

So we have to pay our mortgages, we have to fuel our cars, we have to go the grocery store, but we don't necessarily have to go on vacation or buy gadgets or go out shopping for a new outfit. That's the kind of thing I'm watching. And I am seeing people start to cut back on those things.

CAMEROTA: You're seeing people pump the brakes on that already?

FOROOHAR: For sure, absolutely.

I mean, just the fact that used cars for some time now have been outselling new cars. Now, some of that is supply chain. But some of it's people saying, no, I don't need a new car. I can make do.

You're seeing companies like Apple cut back the number of new models they're putting out for certain kinds of iPhones. I'm going to be watching vacation time in the summer very closely. Are people traveling? Are they driving? Are they flying? Where are they going?

Now, if consumers start to cut back on spending, that hurts companies. And if companies start to feel the pinch, then the stock market could correct. And then that could have a hit on people's feeling about their own wealth, and then start to snowball: Well, OK, I will really slam on the brakes with my own spending.

That's the kind of chicken-and-egg cycle that we're looking for here.

CAMEROTA: Can President Biden do anything that he's not doing right now? (LAUGHTER)

FOROOHAR: That's a great question.

No. I mean, I have to say I think this administration has really been kind of vectorially correct in most of their policy decisions. They threw a lot of stimulus at the economy during the pandemic. We needed it. The things that are causing inflation right now have been with us for a long time.

We have had 10 years of really easy monetary policy, actually more than 10 years. We have a war. We have supply chain fiascoes. I think the president is doing what he can. But we're in a very, very tricky period. And we should all kind of buckle up for more volatility in the next few months.

CAMEROTA: You brought up consumer spending. Let's just look at inflation, where we are right now.

So, food is up 8.8 percent. Energy is up 32 percent here.

FOROOHAR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And so the consumer spending factor plays into that. I mean, they both affect each other.

FOROOHAR: Absolutely, because, if you think about it, how much of your budget is going just to heat your home or to put gas in your car or to buy food in the grocery?

I mean, I go into the grocery now and I really notice prices have gone up. And so that means that you have less money to spend on other things. Maybe you cut back on discretionary items. That starts to impact companies, and -- and, and, and, right?

What can we do? I mean, the one bright spot, I would say, is that the U.S., as always, has this kind of unique position in the global economy. Things are not great here, but they're better than in a lot of places, like Europe, where there's a war, like China, which is still locked down from COVID.

So, on the one hand, we may be the cleanest dirty shirt in the closet, as they say.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Silver lining.

Rana Foroohar...

FOROOHAR: Yes, exactly.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Rana.

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you.

All right, the long wait to vaccinate your young kids against COVID may soon be over.

Details next.

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