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Biden Asks Congress for Additional $33 Billion in Ukraine Aid; Biden Proposes Using Seized Russian Oligarch Assets to Help Ukraine; U.S. Economy Shrinks for First Time in Nearly Two Years. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 28, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:57]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

President Biden is asking Congress for another $33 billion to help Ukraine fight the Russian invasion, while the Kremlin is warning other countries against, quote, pumping up Ukraine with weapons.

President Biden then issued his own warning today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The cost of this fight is not cheap. But caving into aggression is going to be more costly if you let it happen. We either back Ukrainian people as they defend their country or we stand by as the Russians continue their atrocities and aggression in Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The British defense secretary says Russian President Vladimir Putin may be trying to dig in like a, quote, cancerous growth within Ukraine.

Now on the ground, Ukrainians report their towns are being bombarded across three eastern regions, Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk. In Donetsk, the head of the regional government says Russian shelling damaged 27 homes in just one village. Still, the U.S. assesses Russia is making slow and uneven incremental progress across the east.

Let's bring in now, Anderson Cooper. He joins us from the capital city of Kyiv.

And, Anderson, last hour, we heard that a couple of large explosions went off near the area where you are and this was after the U.N. secretary general was in Kyiv meeting President Zelenskyy. So what have you learned?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "AC360": Yeah, Alisyn, Kyiv's mayor said that there were two strikes in one specific district here in the city. And that officials are still trying to figure out if anyone has been hurt or killed in this. And as you mentioned, Antonio Guterres of the United Nations visited here, met with President Zelenskyy today. Gutierrez toured Bucha, the site of alleged war crimes and said that Ukraine is the epicenter of heartache as well as pain. He pledged to boost the U.N. efforts across the board to help the war-torn nation and to try to keep trying for peace.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY GENERAL: This war must end and peace must establish in line with the charter of the United Nations and the international law. Many leaders have many efforts to stop the fighting, but these efforts so far have not succeeded. And I am here to say to you, Mr. President, and to the people of Ukraine, we will not give up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And Matt Rivers joins me now there in Kyiv.

Is there more that we know about the explosion at this point?

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're trying to get more out of officials. Usually what happens when these strikes hit is that it takes officials a few hours to confirm a lot of the information. There's very strict laws here in Ukraine about the reporting of these different Russian military actions. The Ukrainians say it could help the Russians better target.

COOPER: They don't give us precise locations, things like that?

RIVERS: Exactly. And so, that's what we haven't been able to report yet, other than the fact the district is not far from the hotel. We saw the smoke. He heard the explosion not far from where we are.

Still waiting for more information, but I think it's really interesting this happened after that sound byte we just played aired or was said here in Kyiv. I mean, this is -- the U.N. Secretary General Guterres here with President Zelenskyy and if this is confirmed to be a Russian military strength, it happens right at the same time as the U.N. secretary general is here trying to open up humanitarian corridors. It doesn't really bode well if you're hoping for success in that particular agenda.

COOPER: There's also new accusations from Ukrainian officials about Russians in Kherson trying to eliminate Ukrainian culture.

RIVERS: Yeah. So, this is down in the southern part of the country. This is a city that Russia took relatively early on in this conflict.

COOPER: And Nick Paton Walsh was there early on.

RIVERS: He was there early, they left. Actually, my producer who's based in Mexico City was with him during that, and she was telling us that they had to get out of the city because the Russians were on their way there.

They've occupied it for weeks and what we're seeing them do there is really make it a center point of trying to absorb it into Russia in a lot of different ways. So, there are reports that there could be a sham referendum in the coming days, where people would vote to join Russia, officially.

[15:05:01]

They're talking about replacing Ukrainian currency in Kherson with Russian currency in the next couple weeks, we're talking indoctrination in different schools, replacing all municipal officials, democratically elected officials with Russian officials, so really kind of a test case for the Russians and maybe foreshadowing of what would happen in other parts if Russia succeeds in their conquest.

COOPER: You know, days ago, Vladimir Putin intentionally televised it with the general where he said, no, don't attack the steel plant anymore, just encircle it. And make it so a fly can't even escape. It sound like there was that activity to attack the steel plant.

RIVERS: Yeah, in Mariupol. And, you know, I don't think anyone really believe Vladimir Putin when he said that and his words have proven to be false once again. I mean, we have seen a huge ramp-up in activity there.

This is the last remaining pocket of Ukrainian resistance in Mariupol. We are talking about fighters alongside civilians, hundreds of civilians. We seen images of them trapped in that steel plant.

And even though he said we will wait them out. There have been huge bombardments. Today, we spoke to somebody who said these are the real ones from the start. This has been for a long time now. So despite them saying they're not attacking that steel plant. That is false.

However, the Ukrainian fighters do appear to be holding out against all odds. How long they can do is a question.

COOPER: It's a huge conquest and it takes a lot of troops even to encircle it, Russian troops if those troops were able to finish off the steel plants, not only are their civilians inside the plant, it would allow Russian troops to join those troops.

RIVERS: You are looking at thousands of Russian troops around Mariupol get tied up. If they get to leave there, where do they go? They help join the fight in Donbas region by going north and its' one more thing that Ukrainian forces have to worry about.

COOPER: Yeah. Matt Rivers, appreciate it.

President Biden is asking Congress to approve a massive new aid package for Ukraine, with a large portion going to military and security assistance. The White House also wants the authority to hold Russian oligarchs accountable, announcing new proposal to penalize them by using their seized assets to support Ukraine.

CNN correspondents Evan Perez and Oren Liebermann join us now.

So, Oren, what is the breakdown of the military aid that the president is requesting?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We've gotten some information here about President Joe Biden's request for a $33 billion supplemental to help Ukraine. The vast majority of it, more than $20 billion, is for security and military assistance, so more of what we've seen at this point. Much more, in fact, more of the weapons, the Javelins, perhaps even howitzers and much more of that type of equipment critical to Ukraine and the U.S. sees as critical to Ukraine being able to fight back and to succeed going forward.

As for what else is in this $33 billion, there is some $8 billion for economic assistance, and $3 billion for humanitarian assistance. President Biden made it clear that this is critical not only for Ukraine, but to stand for what is right in this case, and he urged Congress to pass it as quickly as possible.

How quickly could this happen? At the very least, it looks like it will take weeks. Some Republicans have said they want to get a better look at what's in this aid package and look at the details through it. They said they want a few days in that regard to go through this. Others have signaled they're not concerned at all by this high price tag, $33 billion. We will watch this play out over the course of the next few weeks here as Biden urges this to get passed as quickly as possible.

One last point worth noting, the last supplemental for Ukraine was $13 billion passed in early March, so the early days of this invasion. This gives you an idea nearly three times that size how the administration sees this going. They will need more help. This will not play up quickly, this is months if not more.

COOPER: Evan, the president also mentioned a new proposal to hold Russian oligarchs accountable. What does that look like?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, one of the criticisms we heard by the efforts of the U.S. in the last couple months has been the issue that, you know, for the Justice Department trying to seize the assets of people connected to the Kremlin is slow going. One of the things is to make it easier for the Justice Department to seize assets of oligarchs, other people who are under these sanctions. The attorney general speaking at a house healing just a short while ago had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Announce today, we will give the Justice Department critical resources and tools to continue and strengthen this flow. Among other things, it would enable us to transfer proceeds off fortified Russian assets directly to Ukraine to remedy the harms of Russia's aggression. In the closed loopholes in our sanctions and forfeiture law, and they would allow us to help the people of Ukraine in their most dire hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: So, Anderson, as a result of getting this legislation passed, again, they will take some of the money from the assessed seized in order to essentially pay for the damage being done to Ukraine by the Russian invasion and, of course, closing some of those loopholes makes it so difficult to track down the assets of these Kremlin-connected oligarchs -- Anderson.

[15:10:17]

COOPER: Interesting.

Evan Perez, Oren Liebermann, thank you very much.

Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Anderson, thank you very much.

A senior U.S. defense official says that Russian forces are making quote slow and uneven progress in Ukraine's Donbas region, partly because of Ukraine's resistance and also because of continued Russian logistical problems.

Joining us to discuss is retired Army Major Mike Lyons.

Major, thanks so much for being here.

We've got this conflicting reports. I mean, if I just pull up the map in the east, you see a lot of red in the Donbas region. That means the presence of Russian troops. Some of the city's Russian troops now control. And so, at the same time, we hear that they're mired in morale problems and logistical probabilities.

Do you have a sense of how much progress Russian troops have made there?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, thanks for having me, Anderson. I do. And I looked at the numbers that "The Kyiv Independent" reports that show the losses of what Russia is taking. And let's say in tanks alone, in the past four days, they report over 100 Russian tanks have been destroyed by the Ukraine military in the Donbas region.

Now, Russia won't agree to that. They obviously think it's a lot lower than that. That's ten battalion tactical groups. That's what Russia has been putting in there. I don't know how Russia is going to sustain these kind of losses.

I mean, frankly, from a military perspective, they're moving as fast as pond water. The only way they can keep their numerically superior force superior is to move it quicker. They can't seem to do it. They have not proven to do that over the entire course of this war.

So, if they continue to basically throw troops into the breach where the defense is built in and grinding them up, I just don't see how they're going to win without trying to reinforce coming from someplace else for full mobilization.

CAMEROTA: And I should point out, the Ukrainians are making strides also. We had a few examples. There's a bridge that connects Crimea and Melitopol and this bridge was destroyed. This is a Russian-controlled basically area.

The Ukrainians said something that I thought was sort of funny language. They said that the bridge self liquidated. So I think that they might have had a hand in that. What they did is interrupt a major it sounds like Russian supply route.

LYONS: Right. They dropped those bridges, classic defensive maneuvers. But if they can hold on for a few more days possibly weeks here as that equipment comes in from the West, the artillery pieces, m-777s, the longer range artillery. I guarantee those Ukraine commanders are looking to go back on the offense.

So they might lose some smaller towns in what appears to be classic World War II battle of tank on tank or Javelin. The soft American power we've provide them in the Javelin are just destroying -- knocking the tops off those Russian tanks, knocking the tops off the armored personnel carriers. And so, they're just not moving enough to outmaneuver them. I don't know how Russia sustains these losses without a big call up.

CAMEROTA: And then there's the steel plant in Mariupol, where for weeks now, we have watched as hundreds of people, women, children, elderly, civilians. This is video of them in the basement. They haven't seen the light of day. They obviously don't have enough food and water. They're in inhumane conditions.

And, you know, it sounds like Vladimir Putin is just playing the long game here, neither bombing the steel factory more or providing humanitarian corridor and I just don't want us to forget that these are just sitting ducks. They're just, I don't -- I don't know how they will get out alive. Do you see a scenario of how this ends for them?

LYONS: Well, a couple things. Hopefully we got some naval assets there. That would be we have to let Russia know if we come in there, from that direction, that we would do that. The humanitarian crisis there does get worse every day.

I think it's a faulty assumption to say the Russian troops go forth. They're shot. They don't have any real capability. They would have taken it by now.

If you look at the steel factory, the troops in there fighting are fighting for their lives and they have equipment. Ukraine stocked that up a few years ago knowing that this could happen so they're in for a fight there still. Again, there is no guarantee those Russian troops if they get released from there will want to go back into another fight. I just don't think they would be combat effective anyway.

[15:15:03]

CAMEROTA: As you know, there is all this nuclear saber-rattling that comes from the Russian side. In other words, they don't take it off the table. How do you think the U.S. should respond to that?

LYONS: I think we have to look at what they do as opposed to what they say. They put a rhetoric limit on it that is just kind of beyond the pale. We all see what they're saying about it. But if they start to mobilize more troops, we can also have the kind of intelligence that can see if they've moved battlefield nukes closer to the combat areas. I think that has to get us more concerned.

We have to think about what we would do if they fired a tactical nuke. The boundary of Ukraine is the border. It's a kind of the red line. We couldn't respond in time. We wouldn't send a nuke back at them.

So, again, you think this all through. We got to think about what think do as opposed to what they say. They are going to escalate things to beyond the point where they -- we might say they're believable or not. Then if we see them moving actual nuclear weapons closer to the battlefield, I think we will be more concerned.

CAMEROTA: Major Mike Lyons, thank you. We really appreciate your expertise.

LYONS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Okay, the U.S. economy shrunk in the first quarter making -- marking the first pullback since 2020. President Biden says, he's not concerned about a recession. His reasoning, next.

Also ahead, House Minority Whip Steve Scalise and Congressman Matt Gaetz met privately to mend fences following their heated exchange over January 6th. We have more.

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CAMEROTA: President Biden responding to a concerning GDP report which showed U.S. economic growth dropping in the first quarter. Earlier today, he was pressed on whether these numbers indicate a recession is coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm not concerned about a recession -- I mean, you are always concerned about a recession. But the GDP, you know, over 1.4 percent, but here's the deal. We're also at last quarter consumer spending and business investment and residential investment increased at significant rates, both for leisure as well as hard products.

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CAMEROTA: Okay. So for the first three months of this year, the nation's GDP fell 1.4 percent. This is compared to the previous quarter. This is the worst economic data we seen since the economic shutdown two years ago.

CNN correspondent MJ Lee is at the White House, where President Biden is hosting a roundtable with small business leaders.

So, MJ, what else is the president saying about the economy?

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we're seeing sort of this interesting split screen on the economy at the White House today, this event that the president just wrapped up with small business leaders. The White House touted that as showcasing the small business boom under the Biden administration.

This is, of course, a part of a bigger attempt by the White House to highlight some of the positive bright spots in the economy. Whenever there is positive economic data, that's something they have to try to showcase and share with the public. But earlier in the day, as you talked about, there was a bad economic headline, the GDP unexpectedly declining at an annual rate of 1.4 percent in the first quarter of 2022.

This means this was the worst quarter economically speaking since the onset of the pandemic. It's why we heard in the sound you played, the president was trying to reassure people he's not worried about the onset of a recession at least not imminently.

Also, just a reminder that we got from the president just now at this event, that whenever he is talking about the economy, so much of this has to do with political messaging, too. He talked about how his administration's approach to the economy, particularly when it comes to small businesses is very different from what he is seeing Republicans doing.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: My administration is working tirelessly to open doors for more outstanding entrepreneurs. You know, unfortunately, Republicans have a different approach. Not only do they oppose making big corporations pay their fair share, they want middle class families and small business owners to pay more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Now, the White House has been pretty frank there are a number of issues that affect the economy that they really just can't do too much about. Namely, the COVID-19 pandemic, of course, and then there is the war in Ukraine.

So when we listen to this administration talking about the economy, I think we basically are hearing from them that there is some economic volatility that is always going to be baked in, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. MJ Lee, thank you very much, reporting from the White House.

So, Congressman Steve Scalise and Matt Gaetz appear to be mending fences. Gaetz had been angry that Scalise was recorded saying that Gaetz's rhetoric after January 6 was, quote, potentially illegal. CNN reporter Melanie Zanona is on Capitol Hill.

So, Melanie, tell us more about their beef and if it's actually over.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, that's a great question. The House Republican conference met for the first time yesterday since "The New York Times" published audio of GOP leaders criticizing both Donald Trump and some of the Republican colleagues in the immediate days after January 6th.

Now, I am told it was mostly cordial yesterday. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy stood up, he gave a strong defense of his comments, he said, don't let this divide us. He got a standing ovation.

But there was some criticism directed at House Minority Whip Steve Scalise. He's the number two Republican. And Congressman Gaetz really pressed him on why did you say that my public attacks were potentially illegal.

[15:25:04]

Scalise responded by saying there is a lot of stuff flying around after January 6th. I was going after what law enforcement said at the time. And he said he was particularly sensitive to threats given his own experience being shot on a baseball field.

And later, Scalise followed up and asked for a one-on-one meeting with Gaetz to try to smooth things over. He essentially apologized, said, sorry, I'm sorry if those comments caused you nay problems.

Gaetz really not taking that apology. He went on Fox News last night and continued to criticize leadership. Look, I think it's remarkable here, if we can zoom out for a moment, these GOP leaders have made the effort to court the very same members that they were so worried about after January 6th, posing a potential security threat.

And it's not just Scalise. Kevin McCarthy, too. Marjorie Taylor Greene said that he actually helped her get back on Twitter and thanked him for doing that yesterday at the conference. So looking at how much heat, they have really courted the right wing.

CAMEROTA: That has been interesting to watch. And speaking of Marjorie Taylor Greene, CNN as you know, published this trove of text messages from former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, including one from the congresswoman, where she brought up the idea of imposing martial law. So now what is she saying about that today?

ZANONA: Well, Greene continues to claim that she doesn't remember ever bringing up the idea of martial law. She was asked at a press conference which of your colleagues did you say when those Meadows' text messages, we're advocating for the idea, CNN, of course, published those text message this week. And she still said she couldn't remember. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I'm sorry, I just don't recall -- I don't recall that. We are talking about big tech. Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't recall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now before the text messages were published, she testified last week under oath in a case that she does not recall ever bringing up the idea of martial law or pushing for that. That is a case her critics are trying to get her off the congressional ballot of her role on January 6. Now that these text messages have come out, and she said she can't recall, critics are saying this undermines her credibility -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Hmm, it doesn't seal to be one of her go-to responses. Melanie Zanona, thank you for the reporting.

OK. Back to Ukraine, right now the city of Kherson, Russia is appointing officials. They're also bringing back the ruble and they're broadcasting Russian TV. More on the Kremlin's attempt to eradicate the city's Ukrainian identity, next.

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