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Biden Shifts Strategy, Expected to Go on Attack Against GOP; "The Fire Still Burns: 30 Years After the L.A. Riots" Airs at 11:00 Tonight; Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) Discusses Getting Congress to Pass Biden's Request for Ukraine and COVID Funding; New Texts Show Hannity Took Direction From Trump White House in 2020 Election. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 29, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think what he wants to point out is that, if you replace the Democrats with Republicans, what are you going to get? You'll probably get Biden impeached, a bunch of Hunter Biden stuff.

I mean, it does bear pointing out the main Republican agenda right now seems to be attacking Biden and not helping on the economy. I think that's, you know, reasonable to do. Is it going to work? I think that's the question.

And I think that you've got a bunch of Democratic voters that already know Republicans are not their favorite choice but they are disappointed right now with where the Biden administration is. And you've got to fix that.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I want to ask you about that because there are accomplishments that President Biden could lean into.

Here are just a few. The $1.9 trillion COVID relief deal, which obviously helped so many states. The $1.2 trillion infrastructure package. It was hard to get passed but they did it. It creates jobs.

The unemployment now at 3.6 percent, down from 6.2 percent when he took office. Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson confirmed to the Supreme Court.

So I mean voters forgotten about that stuff? Why not lean into that stuff?

JONES: Look, I think elections are about contrast. I think you have to say what the other people did that's bad and what you've done that's good.

I think what you're going to have to deal with at this point is that there was some overpromising and underdelivering, especially last summer.

You know, Build Back Better, you can have all this stuff, you're going to get voting rights, you're going to get police reform. Then people say, where is the beef on the last round of promises?

The first round he delivered on. But then he made a bunch of other promises and didn't. It's kind of like, oops.

CAMEROTA: Is that what's happening with black voter support? If you look at the numbers here, his approval rating started at 87 percent. Now it's dropped 20 percent to 67 percent. How do you explain that?

JONES: A couple things. One is I do think that black voters felt we did the most and got the least.

That, when you look at the Senate, when you look at Georgia, when you look at black women out there doing the most to make sure that Biden won and then we haven't gotten enough on voting rights, haven't got enough on police reform, haven't got enough on things that are important to us. That's tough.

Then at the same time, you have Republicans who have been really, especially online, trying to pull black voters over by doing something interesting, saying, look, we may not be your cup of cup of tea on some of these issues but, hey, on the economy, were you better off three or four years ago or are you better off now?

The algorithms are starting to serve up to black voters some very depressing, destressing news. I don't think Democrats have responded online the way they need to.

CAMEROTA: But it is working?

JONES: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: They are bleeding or siphoning, I guess.

JONES: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the special report you have on CNN tonight. It's been 30 years today. This is the anniversary since the L.A. riots. That's a day that you said changed your life.

JONES: It did. I was a kid in law school. I was out there working for a civil rights group trying to monitor the protests. I got arrested myself in the middle of all that.

And so I had seen a beating that I thought was unlawful and unfair, an acquittal that made no sense. And then I wound up in jail.

And I walked out of that jail and I said, I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to fix the justice system. And I have.

And 30 years later, we're as far from 1992 as '92 was from '62. Until --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Let's watch a clip. Let's watch a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES (voice-over): April 29th, L.A. went up in flames. Then we had protests all across the country, including here in San Francisco.

(SHOUTING)

JONES: You're a young lawyer. I was still in law school.

Our boss, Eva Patterson, said protests are going on. It's good to have legal observers there. Have you ever been a legal observer at a protest? I said, no, ma'am. She said go down there and observe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had been to many protests and marches and rallies. It was a Friday night. I was going to go do this thing and then go home.

JONES: We didn't make it home.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: We didn't make it home. Not that night.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really where I think things started to get heated.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The route was supposed to keep going down Church Street. This intersection is where that police presence really started closing in.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we headed up Market Street, I saw there were a whole hell of a lot of cops up there. That's ultimately where we got stopped and arrested.

(SHOUTING)

JONES: We were done for. They brought out the big plastic bags and they poured out plastic handcuffs on the ground. And then they brought the city buses. Empty city buses.

I approached one of the police officers and I said, hey, listen, I'm a law student. This is the problem, the police not letting us have our rights.

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. Van, what is it like to watch all that again? JONES: You know, it's amazing. In those days, we had to fight to get

people to understand there was a problem with policing. Now people around the world understand you have to convince them there's a solution.

[14:35:06]

And so 30 years later, we're still dealing with the same issues.

Think about, as one young guy saw one video of the beating, it changed my life.

You have a generation now, they see the videos every day on their phones. So the level of commitment this new generation has to change is un -- you can't imagine it. Yet they don't know this history.

This documentary is going to blow people's mind. Even those of us who were there 30 years ago.

CAMEROTA: Why? What will we learn?

JONES: Because there's a lot of stuff that we didn't understand at the time.

We go back and we talk to the lawyers in the case. We talk to Korean merchants from those days. We talk to a lot of people. There's stuff that can only now be told of going on behind the scenes, man.

CAMEROTA: Is that right?

JONES: And there's a lot to be learned. Because, at the end of the day, people just want the police to obey the law. People want to feel that they can be treated with respect.

And if you go too long with the disrespect, you do get outcomes like this. I think we now have enough of an understanding of the problem. We should now get on with the solutions.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I was thinking about seeing this. But it's when it's when you pour sunlight on a problem in the form of a cell phone video, it changes the entire equation. And because, suddenly, people can't turn away.

JONES: They can't.

CAMEROTA: Van, great. I can't wait to see it. That's an excellent tease. Thank you very much.

JONES: It's good stuff.

CAMEROTA: It sounds like it.

OK, great to see you.

JONES: All right. CAMEROTA: Join Van on a journey to learn the real story behind the

L.A. riots 30 years later. The new CNN special report begins at 11:00 p.m.

President Biden needs more COVID funding and more Ukraine aid. He needs it approved by Congress. Will he get it? We're going to ask a key Democratic Senator next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:41:26]

CAMEROTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi hopes to pass President Biden's new $33 billion Ukrainian aid bill as soon as possible. The package includes roughly $20 billion for military and security assistance and funding for basic services and humanitarian assistance.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill admit they have a lot to hash out, signaling it could take weeks to hold a vote on this.

With us now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons, of Delaware, a member of the Senate Appropriations and Foreign Relations Committees.

Senator, great to see you.

So let's start with this $33 billion in aid to Ukraine. Everyone understands their desperate need for it. This is the second chunk of billions of dollars. The first one was in March. It was $13.6 billion.

If this war lasts many months or longer, as some people predict, is the U.S. prepared to continually send these packages of billions of dollars to Ukraine?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Alisyn, I just returned from leading a congressional delegation to the region. And I am convinced that if we don't provide these critically needed further weapons for the Ukrainians to defend themselves against Russia's aggression that we may see a turning point in Ukraine's war to retain their independence, sovereignty.

And I do think that we should continue to provide military assistance to Ukraine. They have fought bravely. They have fought far better, far longer against the Russian military machine than many analysts had expected.

Frankly, President Zelenskyy has challenged and inspired all of us in Congress.

And I hear from the people of Delaware regularly that they want us to do more. They want us to support the millions of Ukrainian refugees throughout the region of Eastern Europe, millions more that are internally displaced in it Ukraine.

And they want us to provide the material, the weapons needed for the Ukrainians to successfully push back on Russian aggression. CAMEROTA: Senator Rand Paul had an interesting exchange with Secretary

of State Tony Blinken this week in which Senator Paul says he wasn't justifying Russia's invasion of Ukraine but he was trying to explain it.

So let me play a portion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): You can also argue the countries they attacked were part of Russia.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, that --

PAUL: They were part of the Soviet Union.

BLINKEN: Yes. I firmly disagree with that proposition. It is the fundamental right of the countries to decide their own future and their own destiny.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL: I'm not saying it's not.

But I'm saying that the countries that have been attacked, Georgia and Ukraine, were part of the Soviet Union.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL: And they were part of the Soviet Union since 1920s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Senator, what did you think of that exchange?

COONS: I thought that was ridiculous and outrageous.

Frankly, that is the excuse that Putin has been using for his aggression against Georgia, against Moldova and Ukraine. I don't think there's a second member of the Foreign Relations Committee would agree with Senator Paul.

Vladimir Putin has launched a completely unjustified illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine. He has killed thousands of innocent civilians. Ukraine posed no threat whatsoever to Russia.

And just because there used to be a USSR, a Soviet Union, that was largely accomplished by military conquest of the Baltic States, of the states of the Caucuses and Eastern Europe doesn't justify any renewed effort to re-establish the Soviet Union.

So I stand on the side of freedom, democracy, and the fight to retain the independence of Ukraine and their ability to choose their own path.

[14:45:08] Putin is outraged that countries like Georgia and Moldova and Ukraine are leading to the West, toward the European Union, toward NATO, and wants to stop them from doing so.

I think the United States is the nation in the world, that for decades and decades after the Second World War, stood for the ability of European countries to decide their own future. And the Soviet Union stood opposed to that.

Why we would tolerate any argument in favor of re-establishing a Soviet sphere of influence a greater Russian sphere of influence, I don't understand.

CAMEROTA: We can see that you're coming to us from the CDC headquarters today.

COONS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I know you're invested in getting more COVID relief aid. Why? Why spend billions of more dollars when we're coming out of the most acute phase of the pandemic?

COONS: We're not out of the pandemic. There's nearly three billion people in the world who haven't had a single vaccine dose in the United States.

Things are looking better. And all of us want to be out of this pandemic. It's killed a million Americans. It's killed six million people worldwide. This has been a tragic and difficult chapter in global public health history.

But the United States today has hundreds of millions of effective vaccine doses that we developed and innovated and there are billions of people around the world who don't yet have access to the delivery of the vaccines or the therapeutics that help prevent people, if they get sick, from dying.

So I'm urgently working with my colleagues to persuade them to invest just a few billion more in making sure we finish this job for three reasons.

One, for our own health and safety.

Because if another variant emerges, Alisyn, as the last two did from the developing world, that's where Omicron and Delta emerged, that comes back to the United States and gets around our vaccine protection and reinfects us and puts us back into pandemic shutdown, we will all regret it.

So it's pennies on the dollar to protect our own public health.

Second, it's the right thing to do. There's billions of people waiting for American vaccines that can help them.

Last, many countries around the world had to rely on Chinese or Russian vaccines that don't work against the Omicron variant. We have a chance to show them that the United States can be a better public health partner than other countries.

So I think it's something we should move forward with.

I negotiated hard with my colleagues on a COVID supplemental. It's my hope that we will take it up and consider it in the weeks and days ahead, alongside food aid, which would meet some of the growing hunger around the world that is resulting from Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Ukraine, I'll remind you, is the breadbasket for Eastern Europe and much of the Middle East and North Africa. And there are tens of millions of people facing hunger now because of the war in Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: Senator, last, given everything that you just spelled out and everything you've seen and data that you've seen at the CDC, do you think it's a good idea for President Biden to go to the White House Correspondents Dinner this weekend?

COONS: I think the president is going to follow some tight protocols. Everyone there has to be vaccinated, has to have recently passed a test to show they're not positive, has to show their vaccination card to attend. Very careful.

He has both sent public messages in support of getting vaccinated, following public health guidance, mask wearing over the last year.

And I think he'll weigh carefully his desire to participate in one of the more fun events of the year in Washington with the importance of respecting public health guidelines.

The folks here at the CDC, Alisyn, do an amazing job. There are thousands of public health professionals here who continue to work in service to the American people.

CAMEROTA: Senator Chris Coons, great to see you. Thank you.

COONS: Thank you, Alisyn. Great to be on again.

[14:49:10]

CAMEROTA: Newly obtained text messages between Sean Hannity and Trump's White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, reveals the FOX host's eagerness to spread Trump's baseless election conspiracies. But after January 6th, there was a different tune.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: New text messages exclusively into CNN show how Sean Hannity used his cable TV position to help Donald Trump push his 2020 election lie.

Eighty-plus messages between the FOX host and former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows. They start on Election Day 2020 right up until the Biden inauguration.

In the texts, Hannity eagerly offers up his TV show to spread conspiracies. They also show a change in approach after the January 6th capitol attack.

CNN chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter, is part of the team that broke the news.

Brian, tell us about the lengths Hannity was willing to go to act as part of Trump campaign.

[14:55:02]

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDICA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Right. The texts show evidence really -- Hannity was a shadow chief of staff for Donald Trump, just as White House sources said at the time. But that was all anonymously sourced. And now we're seeing it for ourselves in plain text.

Hannity gives advice. He asks for direction. He even talks to Meadows about maybe business plans in the future. And you see a real evolution thinking about the Big Lie.

Look at this text from November 29th of 2020, where Hannity seems to be all in believing the Big Lie.

Saying, "I've had my team digging into the numbers. There's no way Biden got these numbers. It's mathematically impossible. It's so sad for this country."

He says to Mark Meadows, "We need a major breakthrough."

Meadow's responses and says, "You're exactly right, working on breakthrough."

But by Christmas time, Hannity was evolving, and so was Meadows. They were thinking about the Biden years, making plans to take on Biden.

Here's December 22nd, 2020, with Hannity saying, "Hey, my friend, how are you doing?"

Meadows saying, "Fighting like crazy. Went to Cobb County, Georgia, to review process. Very tough days. I'll keep fighting."

Hannity says, "You fighting is fine but the effing lunatics is not fine. They are not helping him. I'm fed up with these people."

He's referring to more fringe figures who had gained Trump's influence in the waning days of his presidency.

Did he say that on TV? Did Hannity say he was fed up? No, he didn't say that on TV. Not exactly. He continued to prop up Trump and sow doubt about the true election outcome.

Alisyn, it's like he lost control of the proverbial monster that he helped feed.

But now, Hannity has no interest in talking about this. He did not respond to our request for comment today, nor did FOX. But all the text messages are online on CNN.com so folks can see for themselves. CAMEROTA: That's too bad because Hannity's voice of reason there would

really have helped, I think --

STELTER: It would have helped.

CAMEROTA: -- helped his viewers hear all that because they trust him. And so that was a real missed opportunity.

STELTER: That's right.

CAMEROTA: And we see what happened.

Brian Stelter, thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: A Ukrainian commander inside that steel plant in Mariupol is pleading for the safe passage of the hundreds of civilians trapped there. He tells CNN that there's been relentless Russian bombardment. We have a live update soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)