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Biden Speaks At Memorial Service For Former VP Walter Mondale; One Hundred Civilians Evacuated From Bombarded Steel Plant; Calls Grow For U.S. To Sanction Putin's Reputed Girlfriend; Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) About Trip To Ukraine. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 01, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I remember the look in his face, literally remember the look on his face. Open up neighborhoods diminished by segregation for so long. When the act passed, Fritz spoke on the Senate floor and he said that, quote, "The words justice and fairness will mean more to millions of our fellow Americans," and then they do, will never have meant more to our fellow Americans than they do today.

That was Fritz spreading light, in light of our country to families who had never truly known its warmth. At every stage of our lives, at every inflection point, Fritz and Joan, I apologize as we say in the Senate for the point of personal privilege here, but they were there for Jill and me and my family. Not in a political level but on a personal level.

It was true that my first days in the Senate when I needed help very badly and it was true my last days in the Senate as well. In 2008, when Fritz and I have become close friends and I sought his counsel many times, I was asked to join the ticket with Barack Obama. I was, as I usually was, on Amtrak going home. I commuted every day. They later told me over 1,220,000 miles on Amtrak they should name a station or something after me.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: But all kidding aside, he called me after it was clear he was the de facto nominee. And he said he'd like me to join him on the ticket or at least consider it. Could he do a background check on me? You know, we have to do that background check. And I said, no, thanks. Barack. I thought he was just dragging that bloody cloth through the Senate like presidential nominees do to get everybody excited and involved.

And Barack told me, no, no, there's only one other person I'm considering. I said, Barack, I don't want to be vice president. He said why? I said, basically just stand by equipment. I said what I want to do -- and by that time I chaired two major committees. I was fairly influential in the Senate. I said, I can help you a lot more as a senator. I'll do everything I can. I'll campaign throughout the country for you. Barack said, would you go home and talk it over with your family? Just

talk it over. So I did. I called Jill from the chain on my cell phone. And when I got home I was about halfway home when I'd gotten a call. When I got home I went in and the first person I called was Fritz. Before the family gathered in the back porch. And I asked, I said, Fritz, what should I do? And he went into great detail. I'm serious.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: As a matter of face he sent me a long memorandum he prepared for President Carter when they were deciding how their relationship would work. He told me in essence that the vice president holds no inherent power. None, zero. The vice president is merely, and it's true, a reflection of a relationship with the president of the United States.

About seven years ago I joined Fritz at a forum in his honor at George Washington University. Fritz had counted that his greatest strength wasn't his expertise in the political policy area. It was the genuine personal relationship he built with President Jimmy Carter. Relationship built on real affection and trust. They sat down to lunch together every week. Fritz said make sure you get a commitment from Barack once a week you have lunch to discuss whatever is on any of your minds.

He was the first vice president to have an office in the West Wing just a few steps away from the Oval Office. That never happened before. They were over in the Executive Office Building across the street. That was the true strength of the vice presidency, he said. A strength that Barack and I replicated in our time in office and what I'm -- Kamala and I are doing today. And she sends her regards to the whole family. She called me before I got on the plane.

It was Fritz who lit the way. His core, at his core, Fritz embraced everybody with the belief that everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity, everybody. Dignity. Not just the right to vote. Dignity. He was loved by the American people because he reflected the goodness of the American people especially the people in Minnesota. You know, every senator wears on his or her sleeve the state they serve.

[16:05:05]

But the love Fritz had for the people of Minnesota ran deeper than that. He loved you all and you loved him back. It was obvious because Fritz reflected the very best qualities of this state. A warmth and optimism that you reflect. At every turn Fritz reflected the light of this nation. Who we are and what we can be. He called me when I had said in the inauguration we're the most unique nation in all of history.

We're the only nation founded on an idea. Every other nation in the world is based on geography, ethnicity, religion, race. We're founded on an idea. We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights including the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. And it goes on. Fritz believed that in his gut. I watched him every day for over 35

years in the Senate and when he was vice president. He united people. Sharing the same light, the same hopes, even when we disagreed he thought that was important. I'll never forget on a personal level what it meant to have a friend like Fritz.

Listen, four years after losing Eleanor to brain cancer and just a year after losing Joan, Fritz was there to help me again when Jill and I lost our son Beau to brain cancer after a year in Iraq. I'll never forget how Fritz affected so much love and light into our family, again in our darkest moments nor I'll forget coming here to Minneapolis eight years ago to say good-bye to Joan. Most of you remember that Fritz went to the Mayo Clinic for quadruple bypass the very next day. He had delayed the surgery so he could be with all of us to reflect her life. He put off treating his own heart. He says, oh, you know, his heart belonged to Joan.

As I've said many times, I say to the family, seeing your mom and dad together reminded me of that great line from Kristen Marlo's poem, come live with me and be my love, and we shall all the pleasures prove. You can tell when a couple has been together a long time, still looks at each other with love, deep love. It's been said that memory is the power to gather roses in winter.

Well, Ted, William, your dad blessed you with an endless garden of those memories. And, most of all, the memory of two extraordinary loves, a love of more than 58 years he spent together with your mom, a love of 51 years with your sister Eleanor. In his farewell letter Fritz wrote that he was eager to rejoin Joan and Eleanor, two unbreakable loves.

Jill Biden wanted to do a garden at the vice president's residence, a picture of which shows on the screen outside here as I'm standing in front of the residence, so that every family that ever had lived there was a garden of stones and engraving on each of the stones with the name of the couple and the children. And I called Fritz to tell him about it. He came over to the house. It was a summer day.

And he wanted -- he said, can we go in the house? And I said, of course. He wanted to walk up to the third floor. Walked up to the third floor and then to the end, there are bedrooms on the third floor. And he stopped in front of a door and opened it and just stared. I knew he was thinking something deep and I went down the hallway. A few minutes went by and he came down and he said, that was Eleanor's room. I so miss her.

[16:10:07]

And they're all together now for all of time. Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote an institution is a lengthening shadow of one man. There's no doubt that the institution of the Senate, the institution of the vice president reflect the profound legacy of Fritz Mondale. But it's not a lengthened shadow we see in those places. It's his light. And it's up to each of us now to reflect that light that Fritz was all about. To reflect Fritz's goodness and grace, the way he made people feel, no matter who you were. Just imagine what our nation could achieve if we followed Fritz's

example of honor, decency, integrity. Literally just the service of the common good. There would be nothing -- nothing, nothing, nothing -- beyond our reach. I hope we all can be Fritz's mirror, continue to spread his light because you know he was one of the finest men you've ever known, one of the most decent people I've ever dealt with, one of the toughest, smartest men I've ever worked with.

We were lucky to have had him. Look of things, he was lucky to have had you.

God bless you, my dear friend. Among the greatest of all Americans. The highest compliment my grandfather used to say you can give a man or a woman. He was the Irish of it. He used to say, he's a good man.

Fritz Mondale was a good man.

(APPLAUSE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: And you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. And you were just listening to President Biden speaking at the memorial service for former Vice President Walter Mondale, honoring his late friend Fritz.

You could hear the president at times talking about Mondale, how he lifted up the then senator in the early days of his being in the Senate when he was going through a terrible time in his own personal life.

I want to bring in Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator Maria Cardona and staff writer for "The Atlantic," David Frum.

You know, David, President Biden said Walter Mondale was one of the people who helped him find his purpose, inspired him to be a senator after his wife and daughter died in that car crash so many years ago. He also talked about Walter Mondale's ability to unite people even when they disagreed. It feels like we're seeing the president preside over a memorial service for an American who was lost, who reflected a different era in our politics.

DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I think Biden is often at his best in these eulogies. In fact, if anybody wants to ever do a compilation of Biden's speeches, the eulogies of Joe Biden is probably the place to start.

ACOSTA: Yes.

FRUM: He brings to it such deep feeling. He's obviously a very warm- hearted man and the relationship with Fritz Mondale was beyond personal because of the griefs they both suffered, the loss in each case of a child in the prime of life.

The president made also an important institutional point. Vice President Mondale invented the modern vice presidency. Before Mondale, the vice presidency was a target of jokes. The vice presidency is not worth a bucket of warm spit except it wasn't spit. ACOSTA: Exactly.

FRUM: And Mondale is the first important vice president, inaugurating a tradition that through George H.W. Bush, through, of course, Dick Cheney. It raises a question, one of the things he left when we go back to the land of the living is what lessons did President Biden learn from Fritz Mondale about how he would run not his own vice presidency to Barack Obama but his current vice presidency. Is he implementing the lessons that Mondale imparted, that Obama executed? Is Biden in his turn living up to that or is he falling short?

ACOSTA: Yes. And Maria, I think Walter Mondale also, he was sort of the embodiment of Minnesota nice.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

ACOSTA: I mean, that's how he was known across Washington.

CARDONA: Yes.

ACOSTA: And as we were discussing earlier he just, I think, typifies an era that we all wish would come back to Washington, I suppose, maybe we get carried away and saying there was this golden age here in Washington where, you know, they would fight during the day and then gather for drinks perhaps after 5:00 in the evening here in D.C. and hash things out in a more gentlemanly, civil sort of way than we see today here in Washington.

[16:15:16]

But Walter Mondale really did reflect that.

CARDONA: Yes. He did and I think what was so compelling about President Biden's remarks is that you do see kind of that as an era of the past and you sort of look at it as, oh, we need to be doing more of that. We need to kind of harken back and learn those lessons. Well, Joe Biden is living that.

ACOSTA: That's true.

CARDONA: I mean, Joe Biden is -- you know, we talk about how empathetic and good and decent and honorable Walter Mondale was as Joe Biden talking about that. But those are the characteristics and the virtues of the current president of the United States and I think -- I don't think that's lost on people. I think people know that, that he is inherently a good man but, to your point, it is not something that is always front and center because of everything that we have lived in the last --

ACOSTA: Yes.

CARDONA: You know, several years with this divisive rhetoric and this divisive politics. And I love this eulogy because it did bring back that era to today and kind of underscored without obviously him saying so, because that wouldn't be him, but he embodies the same kinds of virtues that he was hailing Mondale about in terms of, you know, just seeing that goodness in other people.

ACOSTA: Yes.

CARDONA: Governing with those kinds of virtues. Having the courage to govern with those virtues front and center, and that is what Joe Biden is trying to do in today's Washington and we all know how difficult that is.

ACOSTA: And David, let's talk about the president's other notable speech of the weekend. His remarks at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. There were some zingers there aimed at the Republicans. And, you know, the White House prepared everybody. You know, he's really going to tear into the Republicans, and it was still very Joe Biden way of, you know, needling the other side of the aisle. But there were also some pretty, I think, serious moments. There were some moments of seriousness that I think we should look back at. Let's watch and then we'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: There's incredible pressure on you all to deliver heat instead of shed light because technology is changing so much. The system is changing. But it matters. No kidding, it matters. The truth matters. American democracy is not a reality show. It's not a reality show.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Line of the night.

FRUM: What was striking with that whole evening, and it's not just the president's speech, it's not just the comedian Trevor Noah's speech, I also encourage people if they haven't seen already to watch Steve Portnoy's speech, the very effective speech by the head of the White House Correspondents' Association.

ACOSTA: Terrific.

FRUM: There was something a little bit of a throwback Thursday about the event. Many fewer Hollywood types, more crowded but much lets glitzy. A lot of people -- a lot of advertisers from the many new media that are being launched, Semafor and Axios, but the theme from the podium in all three of those important speeches was an unironic, unapologetic use of the words free people, free media.

What is important? It's the memory of Trump. It's the reality from Ukraine. And Portnoy in particular was talking in a way that I think would have been very familiar if you've been at this event in 1958 or 1978 that we got a little bit of out of the habit of in 1998 and 2008, and we are reminded by the three of them, including that important speech by the president of the association, that the free media is not to be taken for granted.

One more thing about that, journalists, as Biden joked at the beginning, are not a popular group. But in the -- since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, almost a dozen journalists from many countries, including some from Russia, lost their lives trying to tell people about the war. Cross town rivals FOX News, where all the gruesome things that happened to their primetime lineup, they have two people whom they lost.

ACOSTA: Right.

FRUM: This is a serious and heavy commitment, and that's what the profession at best is about.

ACOSTA: Yes. And we heard the president say one more time the press is not the enemy of the people. And Maria, but let's get to some of the zingers because there were zingers. Let's review those real quick.

CARDONA: There were some good ones.

ACOSTA: And then we'll get to talk about on the other side.

CARDONA: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm really excited to be here tonight with the only group of Americans with a lower approval rating than I have. It's the first time the president attended this dinner in six years.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: It's understandable. We had a horrible plague followed by two years of COVID.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Folks, I'm not really here to roast the GOP.

[16:20:02]

That's not my style. Besides, there's nothing I can say about the GOP that Kevin McCarthy hasn't already put on tape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: There you go. The jokes kind of wrote themselves last night.

CARDONA: They really did. And it was so refreshing to see the occupant of the Oval Office be able to laugh at a joke instead of be one. And so this is what I was -- I thought it was -- it was right on. There was a lot of, I think, question marks as to whether both Biden as well as Trevor Noah were going to be able to really meet the balance, because we are in really serious times, right? We're still in COVID, the war in Ukraine, everything that's going on with democracy, our own democracy.

And would they be able to really kind of balance it out and have it be funny but at the same time really meet those moments of seriousness in terms of the importance of journalists and their role? And I think they were able to do that. Both of them did that.

And I think at the very end both President Biden and Trevor Noah did this in an incredibly compelling way with some joking but to really talk about how this country really is unique in terms of the role of journalists when Trevor Noah turned to the president and said, I joked about you all night but I'm going to be fine, right?

ACOSTA: I'm going to be OK. Yes. It was --

CARDONA: I mean, that's really important.

ACOSTA: It was a good night for the First Amendment.

CARDONA: Yes. Absolutely.

ACOSTA: And we needed one.

CARDONA: And you should know this firsthand, Jim.

ACOSTA: I do know that first hand.

All right, Maria and David, thank you very much.

CARDONA: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Appreciate it.

Up next, the miracle in the war zone. 100 civilians evacuated from that besieged steel plant in Mariupol. This is brand-new footage we're showing you now of their rush to safety. We'll get a live report from Ukraine next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:53]

ACOSTA: In Ukraine miracles have been hard to come by. But there is one report today, Ukraine confirming that 100 civilians including small children have been evacuated from a steel plant in Mariupol that has become a symbol of Ukrainian resistance. This is brand-new video we're showing you right now of their escape. For weeks they have been trapped alongside hundreds of others as Russia relentlessly attacked. Food, water, medicine, running out.

Today they are free. And when you see the images of the city they now leave behind with almost every building destroyed you can appreciate what a miracle it is that they survived. Officials estimate more than 20,000 people inside the city have died. More dead in two months than the Nazis killed in Mariupol in two years. Ukraine's prosecutor general says there are more than 9,000 cases of potential war crimes under investigation and they're opening new cases every day.

In the meantime, the country getting a high-profile and very symbolic show of U.S. support. There you see right there. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi making an unannounced visit to Kyiv on Saturday to meet with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy thanking him in person for fighting for freedom. But the fight is far from over. Russia's Defense Ministry releasing a video claiming to show the launch of a high-precision missile that it says struck a military airfield near the critical port city of Odessa.

Of course, we're going to take all of these reports from the Russian authorities with a grain of salt. But the Ukrainian military also confirming Russia is building up its operations in the east. Russian state media airing this video of heavy shelling on a village in the Donetsk region.

Let's go to CNN's Matt Rivers who joins me now from Kyiv.

Matt, remarkable news about some success in evacuating people from Mariupol. Operations are paused apparently until Monday and we've learned that some shelling has resumed in certain areas. What can you tell us? A lot to sort out there.

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. I mean, it seems like in Mariupol and at that steel plant complex every time there is a small step forward there's two, three, four, five gigantic steps back. And that's exactly where we are seemingly right now with this ceasefire that miraculously held up for two straight days according to both sides, frankly.

Now over, apparently, because shelling, according to a soldier that we've been speaking to inside that steel plant complex, says that shelling has once again started which means that not only the evacuation corridor has stopped, not only have evacuations stopped for the time being, but that also directly puts in harm's way all of the people that are still in there.

When there is shelling the women and children that remain inside that complex, they are at direct risk. And it would seem even crueler if some of them would be injured or killed in this situation because some of the people that were in there just managed to get out. You're talking about close to 200 people. Some people going towards Russian- held areas, about 100 people making their way, according to Ukrainian officials to the city of Zaporizhzhia which is in Ukrainian-held territory, and that is a small miracle, as you say, because it has been weeks and weeks of leading up to this point.

You and I have been talking about this. The fight to get evacuation corridors open has just been lost time and again according to the Ukrainians because of Russian violations of ceasefires. Today, though, it did hold up for a little while and that is good news even if we have this latest shelling that has apparently resumed.

ACOSTA: And, Matt, as we just mentioned a few moments ago House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with President Zelenskyy in an unannounced trip to Kyiv. He was -- she was with the delegation of House Democrats. There you can see the Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Meeks and others. It's always important, I think, significant to see U.S. officials, high- level U.S. officials on the ground with President Zelenskyy. We saw it last week and we're seeing it today. What can you tell us about this? RIVERS: Yes, and this isn't a one-off, Jim. I mean, it was just last

week that you and I were talking about the last senior U.S. delegation to come here, that of course being Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of State -- Secretary of Defense, rather, Lloyd Austin. Then you had President Biden a few days later requesting $33 billion in additional aid for Ukraine, some of which would be humanitarian, some of which would be toward the heavy weaponry that the Zelenskyy administration has been requesting for a while now.

[16:30:04]

And then a few days later the speaker of the House, one of the highest ranking government officials in the United States, shows up here with a senior delegation. The symbolism not lost on President Zelenskyy. He thanked Nancy Pelosi for coming here, bringing some of her fellow Democrats, senior delegation there.

So the symbolism there quite big, Jim, especially because you know that Pelosi is going to play a key role in shepherding a legislative package surrounding that presidential request for $33 billion in aid. She's going to play a big role in trying to get that to the president's desk to sign which would eventually send weapons here.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. That's going to be a huge effort here in Washington.

All right. Matt Rivers, great to see you as always. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

And some of Vladimir Putin's family members and his oligarch friends have been slapped with sanctions as punishment for Russia's brutality against Ukraine. But according to reports one person not yet singled out for sanctions at this point is a woman whose relationship with Putin officially does not even exist. His longtime girlfriend Alina Kabaeva. Putin has denied their relationship and whether or not they have children together. But rumors still swirl about their romantic connection.

Joining me now is former KGB agent Jack Barsky. He's the author of the book "Deep Under Cover: My Secret Life and Entangled Allegiances as a KGB Spy in America." He's also the executive producer of "The Agent" streaming or major audio platforms.

Jack, the last time we spoke with you it was fascinating. A lot of people really responded to it. So it's great to have you back. The U.S. has already sanctioned Putin's two adult daughters. But according to "The Wall Street Journal" they stopped short of sanctioning this woman described as Putin's mistress, his girlfriend, because they worried it would be too confrontational. That is a fascinating distinction.

I mean, is this the one person in the world that actually could make a difference in squeezing Putin? What do you think?

JACK BARSKY, FORMER UNDERCOVER KGB AGENT: No. If anybody believes that Vladimir Putin cares for anybody including his mistress, he doesn't. He doesn't know how to love. He doesn't know how to care for anybody but himself. He, by the way, he has denied, consistently denied that he has a relationship with her claiming that -- he considers himself married to the Russian people.

ACOSTA: Yes. And he's never confirmed how many children he has or does not have with Kabaeva. I mean, that's been rumored about so much out there. How much is this about their safety? How much is this about having people to hide his money? That's been speculated quite a bit. What are your thoughts on that?

BARSKY: Yes. You said the key word here, speculation. Vladimir Putin is possibly the most secretive individual on the planet today. He makes sure that nobody really knows anything about him and the ones -- some people obviously know. But they are very much afraid to leak out the truth. I give you one example, Oleg Kalugin, who was at one time Vladimir Putin's boss. I met him and he told me in confidence that he knows some things that he would never ever speak in public.

Oleg Kalugin lives in the United States now. So if he's concerned, and he was a tough guy. If he's concerned, he lives here, whatever is coming out it's either it's misinformation, disinformation coming directly from the Kremlin or speculation that starts somewhere and then people pick it up. I'm sorry, it's just I don't like being engaged in that kind of guessing game because it gets us nowhere.

ACOSTA: And the last time we spoke we talked about the risk to Putin from his fellow spies. Two months into this war things aren't exactly going well for him. What do you think that relationship looks like now, and does Putin -- I mean, what are your thoughts on his level of paranoia? Does he experience paranoia? Does paranoia strike deep in the heart of Vladimir Putin? What do you think now that this war has not been going swimmingly for him?

I suppose they may all be telling him that it's going just fine and perhaps he's deluded himself into thinking that as well. But if the truth is seeping in, does he get paranoid?

BARSKY: I think he has been paranoid for quite some time. You know, he's a smart man and he knows that dictators live a dangerous life. If there is any danger coming at him from his inner circle, it would be most likely be coming from the military because, you know, based on the way he has directed the war, he's destroying his own military.

[16:35:12]

But let's not hope for a coup d'etat. You know how many assassination attempts Hitler survived? 42 of them. It is very, very difficult to have a conspiracy where you need to trust everyone in that circle 100 percent and you know, folks who operate in intelligence and the direct -- you know, the underlings, the direct underlings of Vladimir Putin don't -- they don't trust each other either. So I would not expect Putin to meet an untimely or an early end.

ACOSTA: Yes. I suppose you might be right. He might be too crafty for that. But I'll guess we'll see in the coming days.

Jack Barsky, thanks so much. We'll have you back and will keep checking in. Great insights as always. We appreciate it.

BARSKY: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Thank you. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:59]

ACOSTA: Before the break we told you about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's unexpected visit to Kyiv along with other House Democrats. That's where Pelosi thanked Ukrainian President Zelenskyy for fighting for freedom in his country. She was with a congressional delegation that include House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff. He joins me now.

Chairman Schiff, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it. What was your -- what was the message to Zelenskyy and what was it like -- I guess we just have to ask you -- being face-to-face with someone who has just become a global icon fighting for democracy and freedom in Ukraine?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, it was pretty extraordinary to sit down with him. We were with him about three hours and really covered the waterfront of issues facing his country to realize as we were talking there were people fighting and dying to defend Ukraine's sovereignty, its territorial integrity and its democracy, and the message we wanted to deliver was that we are in solidarity with Ukraine.

We recognize the importance of their fight to Ukrainians but to people all over the world. If Russia can get away with this, this naked aggression, this invasion of their neighbor, you know, what's to make us think they'll stop with Ukraine? And we wanted to hear from him. Is he getting what he needs? Obviously, you know, it's never enough but we wanted to make sure that he's getting the military equipment he needs, and gets it quickly.

I wanted to make sure as the Intelligence chair that he's getting the intelligence he needs. We discussed the humanitarian crisis, the refugees, the war crimes going on, and he was just extraordinarily knowledgeable and impressive.

ACOSTA: And Chairman Schiff, we know the president in recent days has called for $33 billion in aid to Ukraine, increased aid to Ukraine. How did that come across to President Zelenskyy? I know he is, as you were just mentioning a few moments ago, he's been clamoring for more and more assistance from the global community. Did that sound like the kind of price tag, the kind of aid that he wants to see flowing in?

SCHIFF: Well, he began by thanking us, thanking the president for the extraordinary contribution we're making to Ukraine's defense. It's his job to say that nothing is enough. And, you know, we understand that, we respect that. Nonetheless, I think he's very grateful for what we're doing. We wanted to discuss with him within that really vast sum, what is the priority in terms of what weapons that he needs, what other assistance that he needs, So we went to, you know, through a detailed discussion of the next

phase of the war. It's moving from a phase in which Ukrainians were ambushing Russian tanks. It was close quarters fighting to fighting more at a distance using long-range artillery and that changes the nature of what Ukraine needs to defend itself.

ACOSTA: And just the other day the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin talked about a goal of the United States being to see Russia weakened. How did you respond to those comments? Did those comments make it all the way to President Zelenskyy?

And do you think that Russia is on that path to being weakened? The way things are going what has been a fairly successful Ukrainian military campaign or do you have some questions as to whether or not they can grind this out for months and perhaps even years?

SCHIFF: Well, those comments certainly resonated with me. We want to make sure that Russia can never provoke this kind of war against its neighbors again. And, you know, for that reason I hope these sanctions go on in perpetuity even as I hope this conflict comes to an end. In terms whether President Zelenskyy was aware of the significance of what our secretary of Defense said, I'm sure that he was.

[16:45:00]

They pay assiduous attention to what our leadership is saying, how they are describing our war aims. In terms of whether this is doable, can the Ukrainians fight and win and degrade Russia's capabilities, force them out of Ukrainian lands, you cannot rule out the Ukrainian will to fight, which is extraordinary. I think many people around the world, certainly many in Moscow, didn't think Ukraine could hold out as it has. Putin certainly thought this would be over quickly.

That if not as liberators they would be meet only minimal resistance but they have met fierce resistance. And so we wanted to make sure to underscore that we are with Ukraine in the -- until they are successful and want to provide them with all the support they need.

ACOSTA: And what did you make of what has been taking place in Mariupol over the last couple of days where we've seen some Ukrainians being allowed out of that besieged steel plant in Mariupol where, as you know, that entire area has just been devastated over and over again, time and again by these Russian attacks, targeting civilians and so on. Why do you suppose the Russians allowed this to happen, do you think, Chairman?

SCHIFF: I'm not sure. We raised this with President Zelenskyy and I think at that time he was hopeful that they might be able to evacuate some of the civilians. But after so many disappointments, who could say? But the situation there remains dire in terms of their military personnel, their civilian personnel. The Russians have just leveled that city. And there used to be one of the seats of higher education in Mariupol, had a very large university that serve the eastern part of Ukraine.

It was obviously a very important manufacturing city as well. And the Russian approach to the staunch resistance they met in Mariupol was just to level the city and engage in I think crimes against humanity.

ACOSTA: And your thoughts on a presidential trip to Ukraine. Knowing what you went through today going in, meeting with President Zelenskyy, getting out. Something the White House should consider? I know sending the president of the United States, totally a different story when it comes to making a trip like that to Kyiv. But something the White House should consider?

SCHIFF: I think they absolutely should consider. I have to think they are considering it. And I have to think it's only a matter of time. We didn't discuss that with the president today, although we did have a conversation with the president.

We spoke with him to give him our report on our discussions with President Zelenskyy, what our recommendations were in terms of how we could more materially support Ukraine. But I have to think that a presidential visit is something under consideration. But only a question of how soon that will be feasible.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, Congressman Adam Schiff, kudos to you for making it in there and getting out safely. Thanks for your time this evening. We appreciate it.

SCHIFF: You bet. Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll be right back.

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[16:53:17]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STANLEY TUCCI, CNN HOST, SEARCHING FOR ITALY: Is it fermenting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It's fermentation. Acetolactic fermentation.

TUCCI: Kiara (PH) uses leftover unripe Aronia grapes from the vineyard for her berry juice that is soft and acidic like a light vinegar.

What did you just put in there? What was that you just put in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sea asparagus and parsley. Please.

TUCCI: So this is the sea asparagus. This is the Italian version of (INAUDIBLE). A really great, salty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whatever happened?

TUCCI: So, no, no. It's very salty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?

TUCCI: But it's incredibly delicious. Actual gold leaf as used by renaissance artists. Stop it. It's delicious. It's perfectly balanced. Creamy, unctuous. Wow. Wow. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Stanley Tucci is back. New episodes, new food and new discoveries. An all-new season "STANLEY TUCCI: SEARCHING FOR ITALY" premieres tonight at 9:00 right here on CNN.

And this week's CNN hero co-founded a college for students like her sister who was born with down syndrome. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, everybody.

DEANNA PURSAI, 2022 CNN HERO: College of Adaptive Arts is a lifelong equitable collegiate experience for adults with special needs of all differing abilities who historically haven't had access to college education.

You hit that right there.

We have 10 schools of instruction and they get the same access to the array of classes that any college student can select.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out reaching towards the sun.

[16:55:01]

PURSAI: I want for every student that walks through our doors to be treated like they are thinking intellectual that they are.

I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you, too.

PURSAI: My experience with my sister. Angel has helped me be a better, more authentic, transparent person. I am so humbled each and every day by their depth and ideas and ways to make the world a better place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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