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Supreme Court Poised To Strike Down Roe v. Wade In Draft Opinion; Biden Tours Plant Making Javelin Anti-Tank Missiles For Ukraine; Interview With Representative Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) About Supreme Court Draft Opinion On Abortion. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 03, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The expectation, though President Biden did talk about what he believes the implications of a ruling like this one area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If this decision holds, it's really quite a radical decision. It basically says all the decisions we made in your private life, who you marry, whether or not you decide to conceive a child or not, whether or not you can have an abortion, a range of other decisions, whether or not how you raise your child, what does this do and does this mean that in Florida they can decide they're going to pass the law saying that same-sex marriage is not permissible? It's against the law in Florida? And so there's a whole -- it's a fundamental shift in American jurisprudence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So not only calling it a fundamental shift but also talking about the far-reaching implications of a ruling like this one. Of course the president has added this caveat saying it remains to be seen what exactly the Supreme Court does rule -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We know that President Biden is expected to speak pretty soon. For people listening on the radio, Kaitlan speaking at a low voice because she's in this room now waiting for the president in Troy, Alabama, to talk about the Javelin missiles going to Ukraine.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

COLLINS: Here he comes now.

BLACKWELL: Oh, and there's the president now. We'll get to his remarks in just a moment.

Let's bring in now CNN Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue.

Ariane, this is the first time that this draft opinion is released before an opinion is published. There's now going to be an investigation launched and find out who leaked it. ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT: Right. Chief Justice

John Roberts in that statement said that this leak is egregious but he also, or the court confirmed that it's authentic. Maybe not final but it is authentic. And the reason it's not final is very often these draft opinions are circulated through chambers. And for instance, Alito could send it to another justice and another justice could say, look, you need to change this to get my vote, et cetera.

That's what the process is. But it really points out how shattering this is for the Supreme Court. It's a real breach of trust. But the most important thing here is the actual draft of the opinion and really this is the worst-case scenario for supporters of abortion rights because after oral arguments there were some people who thought that maybe Chief Justice John Roberts could convince somebody else to, look, uphold this law but leave Roe in place.

If this draft is true, that is not what happened. Alito instead issued this sweeping opinion in this draft and basically he said that Roe should be overruled. He said that there's no right to abortion under the Constitution. He said that this decision belongs to the states, not the courts. And critically he talked a lot about this legal doctrine called stare decisis, which basically means the court doesn't like to overturn precedent, and he said in situations we can.

And I guess I've covered the court long enough to be hearing the dissent in my ear even though that this is a draft, and we heard a little bit the liberals during oral arguments, and Justice Sonia Sotomayor, she was pushing back and she was noting, look, why are we suddenly now reversing Roe v. Wade or even considering reversing Roe v. Wade after some 50 years. And she said some people are going to say it's because we've suddenly had an influx of conservatives appointed to the court and that's political.

BLACKWELL: All right, Ariane, I've got to jump in here. We're going back to Troy, Alabama. President Biden now speaking at Lockheed Martin Plant, making the Javelin missiles going to Ukraine.

BIDEN: Thank you, Jim, for the invitation to be here today and, Linda, for the warm welcome today. And Congressman Sewell -- woman Sewell, thank you for all you do for the people of this state and the country and for your friendship, our friendship.

I wanted to come down to Alabama to make sure that the American people know what workers at this -- and, by the way, if you have a seat, please take it.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: By the way, sometimes the press is always fair with me, but every once in a while, I make a mistake, not like -- well, once a speech. But, at any rate, I -- years ago, when I first started talking to this -- for this job, I said, please take your seats. There weren't any seats. Everyone was standing. There were no chairs.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: So I just wanted to make sure I checked whether you had seats.

Look, the American people know what workers at this facility are doing and support -- to support Ukraine's fight for freedom. And the bottom line is I came to say thank you, thank you, thank you. That's the reason I'm here. I've been on those battlefields where these missiles are fired, and I spent a lot of time going in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan, maybe a total of 40 times. And I tell you what. You're -- and I've been in Ukraine a lot prior to the war and on the border since the war. And it's amazing what you've done.

[15:05:00]

We see on the news every single day the atrocities and the war crimes that are being committed by Russian forces in Ukraine, directed by Vladimir Putin. And it really is gut-wrenching. We see the incredible bravery of the Ukrainian fighters defending their country from -- with everything they have. And by the way, it's not just their warriors. It's not just their military. It's people in the street, people in the street, staying behind.

A lot have gotten out, five million, but a lot are staying, including women as well as men, staying to fight for their country. And we know that the United States is leading our allies and partners around the world to make sure that courageous Ukrainians who are fighting for the future of their nation have the weapons and the capacity and ammunition and equipment to defend themselves against Putin's brutal war.

A lot of war crimes being committed. But what we don't -- what we don't see -- we don't always see is the work that so much of -- that makes so much of this possible. And that's you. It's not hyperbole. It's you. You make it possible. You make it possible for them to have a shot.

You know, during World War II, the United States was known as the arsenal of democracy. There was Rosie the Riveter, who I actually got to meet, quite frankly, before she passed away, and a lot of people who, in fact, kept it going. I was -- a slight digression, I went over for the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II. And I was in Normandy, and I went up afterwards with the -- to the cemetery.

And I was walking by myself. And it's incredible. It's immaculate. It's perfectly manicured, and the headstones are all the same. I looked down one row, and I saw three names, same names. A father and two sons who had died in the landing. And I was bent down, and I was reading the dates of their birth. And all of a sudden, I heard behind me, attention, and I turned around and there was a gentleman who had to be in his early 80s, in a wheelchair, being wheeled by his son, big guy, looked like Hoss Cartwright, and his wife and one of their -- and a daughter.

And he saluted me so I saluted him. And at the time and I turned, I said, thank you for what you did. Thank you for saving, literally saving civilization. And he put his hand on his wife's -- his hand was on her shoulder, and he said, no, no. She did it. She did it. And I looked at her, and he said, she built the landing craft that got us in here. She and her friends, they're the ones that did it. And he went on. And he filled up.

And all of a sudden, it dawned on me. You're doing it. You really are doing it. You're making a gigantic difference for these poor sons of guns who are under such enormous, enormous pressure and firepower. Those Javelins I saw, there's 10 for every tank that there is in Ukraine right now. You're changing people's lives. We built the weapons, no, you really do.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: But we built the weapons and the equipment that helped defend freedom and sovereignty in Europe years ago. But that's true again today. You know, some of the best, most effective weapons in our arsenal are those Javelin missiles, like the ones manufactured right here in Pike County. They're highly portable. They're extremely effective against a wide range of armored targets.

They can hit targets up to 400 meters away and have a fire-and-forget capability. That means the person firing can -- I know you know it, but for anybody who may be listening -- can change positions or take cover before that Javelin even strikes home and strikes the target. In fact, they've been so important there's even a story about Ukrainian parents naming their children -- not a joke -- their newborn child Javelin or Javelina. Not a joke.

So the brave people of Ukraine, including the many civilians who have taken up arms to defend their country, deserve every ounce of credit for pushing back the Russian assault and frustrating Putin's desire to dominate Ukraine. We're at an inflection point in history, for real. It comes along about every six or eight generations, where things are changing so rapidly that we have to be in control.

Folks, there's an ongoing battle in the world between autocracy and democracy.

[15:10:03]

Xi Jinping, the leader of China, who I've talked -- I've spent more time with than any other world leader has, over 78 hours on the -- either in person or on the telephone with him. And the fact of the matter is he just is straightforward about it. He says that democracies cannot be sustained in the 21st century. Not a joke. They cannot be sustained. Because things are moving so rapidly, democracies require consensus, and it's hard to get consensus, therefore they can't keep up with an autocracy, one-man rule.

But that's not going to be the case. If that happens, the whole world changes. And because of you, in this first, really, battle, if you will, for that to determine whether that's going to happen is because you're making it possible. You're making it possible for the Ukrainian people to defend themselves without us having to risk getting in a third world war by sending in American soldiers fighting Russian soldiers.

My dad used to have an expression. He'd say, the only war worse than one that's intended is one that's unintended. You're allowing the Ukrainians to defend themselves. And, quite frankly, they're making fools of the Russian military in many instances. A big part of the reason they've been able to keep up fighting and to make this war a strategic failure for Russia is because the United States, together with our allies and partners, have had their back.

The United States alone has committed more than 5,500 Javelins to Ukraine. You're changing the nation. You really are. Add to that significant supplies from our allies and partners, as well as many thousands of other anti-tank and anti-air weapons, helicopters, armored vehicles, artillery, coastal defense systems. Before Russia attacked, we made sure Russia (sic) had Javelins and other weapons to strengthen their defenses so Ukraine was ready for whatever happened.

And in the last two months, we continued to move even more resources and equipment at a rapid pace into Ukraine. We've made sure that there are no interruptions in the flow of equipment to Ukraine. Since Russia invaded Ukraine just over two months ago, we have sent more than $3 billion in security assistance to Ukraine, alone, us, not counting our allies. And that money is a direct investment in defending freedom and democracy itself.

Because if you don't stand up to dictators, history has shown us they keep coming. They keep coming. Their appetite for power continues to grow. And every worker in this facility and every American taxpayer is directly contributing to the case for freedom. And that's something we can all be incredibly proud of, in my view.

Last week, I sent Congress, if you excuse a point of personal privilege, talking like an old senator, but I sent a supplemental budget, a fancy way of saying we need more money, to make sure the United States can continue to send weapons directly to the frontlines of freedom in Ukraine and to continue to provide economic and humanitarian assistance to help the Ukrainian people.

And I urge the Congress to pass this funding quickly to help Ukraine continue to succeed against Russian aggression, just as they did when they won the battle of Kyiv, and to make sure the United States and our allies can replenish our own stocks of weapons to replace what we've sent to Ukraine. As I said from the beginning, this fight is not going to be cheap, but caving to aggression would even be more costly.

We either back the Ukrainian people as they defend their country or we stand by as Russia continues its atrocities and aggression. I know what the answer is, and I think you all do, too. I bet I know what the answer of this plant is. There's something else here to be understood. Being the arsenal of democracy also means good-paying jobs for American workers in Alabama and the states all across America where defense equipment is manufactured and assembled.

Two hundred and sixty-five people here at this plant are directly employed working on the Javelin program. All told, Lockheed Martin has brought nearly 3,000 jobs to Alabama. The Armed Forces of the United States of America is going to continue to be the best-armed, most capable fighting force in the history of the world. In order to do that, we have to make sure our vital defense suppliers are getting the inputs and supplies they need to produce and protect and provide the full capacity.

I learned on the tour today that each of the Javelins you produce includes more than 200 semiconductors. I've been a broken record, as the press will tell you, on our need to be able to produce more semiconductors in the United States. We invented the sucker, going to the moon. We, the United States. We're the one that modernized it. We've done more than anybody else. But guess what? We stopped investing in ourselves. We stopped investing in ourselves.

[15:15:01]

And so now we're back in the game, making sure that we become, we become the primary producer of those semiconductors, computer chips that power much of our modern lives. They're in our phones, on our cars, almost anything that has an on-off switch. And the semiconductor is critical to defense production capacity, as you all know better than I do.

That's why we are making it as hard as we can for Russia to get a hold of these semiconductors and advanced technologies that it could use to upgrade its military during this conflict, and why we're taking steps to make it easier to source what we need here in the United States during a global semiconductor shortage.

And just one more -- there's just one more reason why Congress has to act quickly to provide the emergency funding for the so-called CHIPS Act by passing the broader Bipartisan Innovation Act so we can produce tens of millions of these chips. There is something we have to focus on and something I've focused on from my earliest days of our administration. I'm determined to make sure the United States holds this technological high ground in competition with other nations, especially China, as we move forward.

Folks, you know, we used to invest, as a nation, years ago, 35 years ago, we invested 2 percent of our entire GDP in research and development. We do half of that now. We do half of that. We used to be number one in the world. Now we're number 13 in the world. My administration -- we're changing that. The United States used to own the innovation field.

In fact, it was a Department of Research Program that established DARPA. It was the first development of an anti-tank missile with advanced infrared guidance systems that culminated in today's Javelin. The Bipartisan Innovation Act is going to help reverse decades-long decline in federal research and development investment. And it should create and support entire families, and expand U.S. manufacturing and strengthen our national security.

Where in God's name is it written that the United States can no longer be a leading manufacturer in the world? We've created, just in the last 17 months, 465,000 permanent manufacturing jobs in America. We have the best workers, the most competent employees, the best science in the world. And by funding the CHIPS Act, we're going to ensure the semiconductors that power the economy and our national security are made here in America again. Today, all the world's most advanced chips are made overseas. But the

events of the past few years have proven beyond a doubt that America's security should never be held hostage to events overseas. Not a pandemic, not a war, not the politics of ambition or other countries. Fundamentally, there's a national -- this is a national security issue.

This is one of the reasons why the Chinese Communist Party is lobbying folks to oppose this bill. And it's an issue that unites Democrats and Republicans. So let's get it done. Let's get it done.

In her introduction, Linda said she personally touched every single solitary Javelin, 50,000 that had been manufactured in this plant 20 years ago. I was worried to shake your hand. I thought you -- I might be electrocuted.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: But that's where they start, right here, with American skill, American craftsmanship, American patriotism. And just a few days ago, the "Wall Street Journal" quoted a young Hungarian fighter saying, and I quote, "Without the Javelins, it would have been very hard to stop the enemy pushing ahead," end of quote. So these weapons, touched by the hands -- your hands -- are in the hands of Ukrainian heroes, making a significant difference.

That's something each and every day you could and should be proud of. And I'm once more urging Congress to quickly pass the supplemental funding bill, over $300 billion to help the Ukrainians so they can keep -- they can keep all of the very, very, all of you very, very busy for a while here.

So, again, let me end where I began. I came for a basic reason, from the bottom of my heart, to say thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for what you do. Thank you for what you continue to do. Unless you go out in the field and see it, you don't realize what a difference you're making.

May God bless you all. And may God protect our troops. Thank you so much.

(APPLAUSE)

BLACKWELL: President Biden there with some brief remarks at Lockheed Martin Plant, making some of the Javelins that are being sent to Ukraine. Also continuing to request that $33 billion, reiterating that request from Congress to support Ukraine in its war with Russian forces there.

[15:20:04]

Let's bring in Kaitlan Collins who is live in Troy, Alabama, with the president. Steve Anderson and Kim Dozier are in Washington.

Let me start with you, General, and the Javelin missile. The president said that these have been such a game changer that they're Ukrainians who are naming their children Javelin and Javelina. How important to these fights have these Javelin missiles been? Are they still?

BRIG. GEN. STEVE ANDERSON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, they're incredibly important, Victor, and they will continue to be. They are absolutely making a huge difference tactically on the battlefield. A thousand Russian tanks have been knocked out. 2500 mechanized vehicles have been knocked out, and you can bet that a large majority of those have probably been knocked out by the Javelins and also a lot of artillery as well.

But I mean, it's so wonderful to see the president down there honoring those people, those Americans that are providing their sweat equity, their labor to make this system the success that it is. I mean, that kind of technology takes years and years to grow, thousands and thousands, billions of dollars have been spent and when that technology is needed like it is in the war of Ukraine, it's got to be available.

You can't wait a couple of years to develop it. The Russians are finding this out. They're behind. We have a technological edge, we need to maintain it, and it's wonderful to see the president down there honoring the Americans that are making this possible.

BLACKWELL: Kaitlan, the president referenced infrastructure. He talked about semiconductor legislation. But most pressing, this $33 billion request into Congress for the continued support, months of support for the Ukrainian military and government.

COLLINS: Yes, and when you hear him talk about that semiconductor legislation, some people may say, OK, that's something they talked about before this invasion happened. How does that play a role into this. But you heard President Biden say there as he's speaking at this Lockheed Martin facility about these Javelin missiles. It takes 200 semiconductor chips per Javelin to make them work.

And so that's why he's calling on them to pass that so it's easier to produce those chips. Obviously they were -- have been in short supply ever since the pandemic happened. And so that's been a concern, but yes, it is this $33 billion package that the president is asking Congress for that is really the main push behind this trip here to this facility that is the final assembly plant we should note for these Javelins.

And Michael is right that a big concern is about the production here because you heard President Biden say that they've sent over 5,000 of these Javelins to Ukraine. Obviously we have heard from President Zelenskyy on down to top advisers about just how effective these Javelins have been, these antitank missiles have been because they're lightweight, they're portable, they can be fired by one person, and they've been incredibly helpful for their defense.

And so they want more of them. They've asked for 500 on a daily basis from the Pentagon, and so at this facility here, which of course is the final assembly plant for these Javelins, they make about 2100 a year. OK. Well, you can do the math, if they have sent over 5,000 there, that's a big question not only about being able to send more Javelins to Ukraine, but also to be able to replenish U.S. stockpiles that are being depleted by what's being sent there.

And so that is all part of this bigger conversation, of course, here, and I also think President Biden, part of this trip here is he's highlighting what the United States has done for Ukraine, and what they have sent there, and that has been something that they have wanted to make a focus and a priority, talking about that, and highlighting just what a critical role the United States has played and the defense that they've seen when it comes to the Ukrainians.

BLACKWELL: Kim, let's look ahead to May 9th. I just had Amanda Sloat on from the National Security Council from the White House in which I asked if President Putin declares war on May 9th or victory on May 9th, would that shift the U.S. approach? She wouldn't get into that specifically, but what would that mean if Putin says now this is war? I mean, we've seen atrocities for months now. What would change?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: You know, I think U.S. officials are positioning themselves for the long haul and they expect Putin to say something along those lines on May 9th. To signal to the world that there is no way he's done yet and this fight is going to continue. And I think that's why the Biden speech today really shows us that Biden has bought into this war and he wants to now make sure that he brings along the American people and the Congress with him portraying this as a battle of World War II epic proportions and significance.

But also pointing out that this war is good for American business, that it has brought jobs, making these Javelins and other weapons, and that it is something that we should prepare for for the long haul because everyone thinks that's what Putin is prepared for.

BLACKWELL: Kim Dozier, Kaitlan Collins, General Anderson, thank you.

Well, there has been swift and strong congressional reaction to the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion showing that the court appears poised to overturn Roe v. Wade.

[15:25:06]

Washington state Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal joins me now. She has previously spoken about her own abortion. She wrote in 2019 a "New York Times" op-ed entitled "The Story of My Abortion."

Congresswoman, welcome back. Thank you for your time. Let's start there. In that context of your personal experience, this was your second pregnancy. How do you interpret? How do you receive this draft opinion from Justice Alito?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, Victor, I think I share in the terror across the country, and I use that word very specifically. The fear that people have, the disgust, the outrage at this opinion because I spent some time this morning reading it. I still have a few more pages to go. But I can tell you, this is a stunning, stunning rebuke of precedent and of the fundamental freedom that women have to make choices about our own bodies and our own futures and our own economic security. And the thing is, Victor, that these justices are acting like this is

somehow something that they have the right to change. They do not have the right to change this, which has been settled law for two generations now of people who have grown up, who have gone through their 20s in the firm belief that they can make these decisions about their own bodies. The only thing that has changed is the makeup of the Supreme Court, the radicalization of the Supreme Court.

And if they can do this for this issue, Victor, it means that they can ignore precedent for every other issue that we have considered settled law, so we cannot accept it. I don't think people across this country are going to accept it, and of course we have to now work extra hard to codify Roe v. Wade in the United States Congress.

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about that. Majority leader in the Senate Chuck Schumer says that there will be a vote to show the American people where each senator stands. But you come back to the same math that you focused on for the voting rights discussion, and for much of the legislation that did not pass that the president was pushing. We heard from Senator Manchin who is in the same position on the filibuster. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is your position on the filibuster remain the same today?

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): The filibuster is a protection of democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: He calls the filibuster a protection of democracy for those who could not hear it. So where do you go if you don't have the votes to even carve out for this because you don't have the 60 votes to pass anything in the Senate?

JAYAPAL: Well, two things, we could get two Republican women senators, Senator Murkowski and Senator Collins. Senator Collins was lied to in the Supreme Court hearing. She seems to think that she had a commitment that settled law was settled law. That's clearly not the case. They can make an exception, and with those two senators, we could actually pass it with 51 votes and make an exception to the filibuster. That's one thing.

The second thing, Victor, is that we are going to have to turn out in the streets but at the voting booths, and we're going to have to make it clear to everybody across the country that this right that we have taken for granted, frankly, for decades now is not at all, it's hanging by a thread. It's about to be overturned and we cannot afford to let that happen. We have to elect bigger majorities that will ensure that women across the country are not forced into backroom, you know, alleys to get their abortions, which is what used to happen.

And of course it's primarily black, brown, indigenous and poor people that are going to be stuck in a situation where they're not going to be able to access a safe and now apparently legal abortions. BLACKWELL: Let me ask you, you mentioned the two Republican women who

may side with Democrats to create a carve out of the filibuster. President Biden says that he's not prepared to go in that direction to change the filibuster for this, which -- and let me add this. The president used, he said the word abortion for the first time as president today. I mean, for the first 15 months of his administration, he would use euphemisms like access to health care, protecting the rights of women.

Now this is about more than just the use of the word abortion clearly but what do you want to see out of the White House over the next several weeks and months as this fight appears to be ramping up?

JAYAPAL: The White House has to lean into this. We need an exception to the filibuster. Half of the country is relying on these largely men in positions of power, whether it's in the White House or whether it's in the Supreme Court.