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Politico: Top Court Poised to Reverse Abortion Rights Ruling; Evacuation Efforts Stalled at Mariupol Steel Plant; Moschun Residents Return to Village Decimated by Russia; Officials: Putin Could Declare War on Ukraine May 9; Outrage Over Russian Foreign Minister's Hitler Remarks. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired May 03, 2022 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm Max Foster. Ahead this hour supreme shock. A draft opinion from the highest court in the U.S., has surfaced suggesting it is prepared to overturn abortion rights by striking down Roe versus Wade.

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Isa Soares live in Ukraine where officials are hopeful evacuation efforts can soon resume in the besieged city of Mariupol, though many civilians remain trapped inside the cities decimated steel plant.

FOSTER: For the first time in nearly half a century, would you believe, American women appear to be on the cusp of losing their constitutional right to safe and legal abortions. The news website Politico has published a draft opinion from the U.S. Supreme Court that appears poised to overturn the landmark 1973 ruling Roe v. Wade, which protects abortion rights nationwide. CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of the documents. The final ruling is not expected until June and abortion remains illegal for now. But outrage and alarm are sparking quickly.

Protests have already begun whilst many Republicans are celebrating the news. This would mark a major victory, decades in the making for American conservatives. And this is all possible because of the three conservative justices appointed by former U.S. President Donald Trump who dramatically shifted the ideological makeup of the top court. Justice Samuel Alito who reportedly wrote the draft opinion has long objected to Roe v. Wade. He writes quote, Roe was egregiously wrong from the start. It's reasoning was exceptionally weak, and the decision has damaging consequences. And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have inflamed debate and deepen division.

Casey was a case in 1992, but also upheld abortion rights. CNN legal analyst Joan Biskupic puts all this into perspective for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is seismic news coming from the Supreme Court. In a draft opinion obtained by Politico, the court appears poised to overturn the landmark decision Roe v. Wade, that legalized abortion in the United States. This means nearly 50 years of legal access to abortion in any state may soon change. States could have the option of banning abortion entirely once this ruling is officially handed down. A number of states already have laws ready to be enact to limit or outright ban abortions.

As the law stands now in America, states cannot ban abortion before about 23 due weeks of pregnancy. The case at hand, brought on by the state of Mississippi, will entirely change that precedent.

What is also shocking is how we came to learn about this decision. Normally, we hear, at the very end, once the decision is complete from the Supreme Court, we hear from the majority and we hear from the dissent. But this first draft of the majority decision was made available in an entirely unprecedented way. And for some people might further bring into question the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. According to Politico, and our own reporting confirms this, Chief Justice John Roberts would be a descent in an opinion to overturn Roe v. Wade. And he would be even more concerned about the outcome of this ruling now.

Joan Biskupic, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: The draft opinion as causing a firestorm amongst abortion rights activists and legal analyst. Planned Parenthood the organization that provides women productive health care tweeted --

Let's be clear, this is a draft opinion. It's outrageous, it's unprecedented, but it is not final. Abortion is your right, and it is still legal. \

Here is more from Planned Parenthood's president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXIS MCGILL JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO PLANNED PARENTHOOD FEDERATION OF AMERICA: What we have seen tonight is not just a draft, we believe this is a roadmap for how they will take Roe down, and we have already seen it over these last nine months in Texas. The devastation of what we have seen patients traveling thousands of miles to get access to basic abortion care.

[04:05:00]

But I will tell you abortionist illegal right now. We are letting our patients know, and patients who are seeking access to abortion, that they can still go and seek their provider right now. But what is happening right now in front of the court is unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CNN legal analyst Laura Coates says if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it would have far reaching consequences on women's rights.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This opinion can be, if true, narrowed down and defied quite simply. Women are not viewed as equal to men. The right of privacy, a fancy way of talking about a fundamental right, meaning in a country where we talk about how we do not want people's rights to infringe on another, and your rights and where might begin. And it is about the consent of the governed.

Well in this instance, the court has already said that there are some areas. If you believe that fundamental rights include things like marriage, include things like interstate travel, include things like contraception and the like, well then surely you would believe that within that same umbrella of thought that things related to one's health and agency over one's body should also be in that privacy sphere.

But instead, you have this justice, if this draft opinions to be believed, and to be actually be followed to a conclusion of an official holding, then you have the codification that says that when it comes to a woman's body, when it comes to agency over ourselves, over our decisions, over our bodies, we are simply not equal to men.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: CNN's chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin says the publishing of a Supreme Court draft is unprecedented by the high court standards to secrecy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I can't emphasize enough as someone who has covered this court for 30 years, whose written two books on the court, there has never been a leak anything like this. There's never been a leak of a vote, much less than actual opinion, much less in a case of this significance. The idea that a decision of this magnitude could leak is really a shattering experience for the justices and the court. And I really don't know how or if the institution is going to recover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Officials in California already proposing legislation to protect the right of an abortion. The governor and leaders in the state legislature issued a joint statement saying --

California is proposing an amendment to enshrine the right to choose in our state constitution so that there is no doubt as to the right to abortion in the state. We know we can't trust the Supreme Court to protect reproductive rights, so California will build a fire wall around the right in our state constitution. Women will remain protected here.

CNN's Don Lemon spoke to two political exports earlier about the Politico report. They say a Supreme Court decision potentially overturning Roe v. Wade could impact the upcoming U.S. midterm elections.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a category 5 political and social hurricane in this country. As you point out, in one fell swoop, something that was a right for women for the last 50 years has been taken away. We do not know all the ramifications of this yet, at this point.

But I want to point out that this is something that the Republican Party has worked on for decades. Assiduously, at the state level, at the federal level, in the judiciary, trying to get to this moments and it is something, as I think one of my colleagues pointed out earlier, that Democrats while they talk about it a lot, have effectively said, you know, they didn't do in the way Republicans did. They didn't protect it in the way Republicans fought it.

And in the end now, you have this conservative majority on the court, and the Democrats are going to face a midterm election very soon, and then a presidential election. And they're going to have to decide how they battle this out, how they use this in order to get those voters out there to the polls to understand that elections have consequences.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We haven't seen anything like this in our lifetime, the wholesale withdraw of a basic right. And so, you know, it's really hard to think of a precedent for this. But I will say, if you are a Republican strategist privately right now, you would say this is not good. We do not need this. We were on the path to winning a big victory in the fall, the wholesale overturning of Roe v. Wade maybe the one thing that could change the dynamic.

[04:10:00]

Because the people who have in polling expressed the strongest objection. Remember the vast majority of Americans, 70 percent of Americans or more have said they did not want this. But the people who are most vociferous about this were people under 45, Democrats, obviously women. And yes, these were the voters who Democrats were particularly worried about in the fall. Will they come out? Will they participate? There's been pulling suggesting that the enthusiasm wasn't there. This could galvanize those voters, Don.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: America will be waking up soon. So, lots more reaction throughout the day. But for now, we're going to cross to the latest on the situation in Ukraine with Isa who is in Lviv -- Isa.

SOARES: Thanks very much, good morning to you, Max. All eyes on the besieged city of Mariupol this morning. In the bomb out steel plant where many civilians are still of course trapped inside. The city counselor says more evacuation efforts are due to resume in the coming hours, but it is not clear if those plans involve people inside the Azovstal plant. Now around 100 people were able to make it out of the plant on Sunday,

but another round of evacuations planned for Monday, well, never happened. The Ukrainian commander inside the plant said they've been under constant bombardment since early Monday.

In this video you are looking at, well, it appears to confirm those reports. It shows a large plume of smoke rising over the city from an area near the plant. Meanwhile, some evacuees did begin arriving in Zaporizhzhia on Monday. The city under Ukrainian control is often where people fleeing Mariupol go first. But the city's mayor says Russia is making that journey even more difficult by forcing everyone who wants to enter Ukrainian-controlled territory to pass through so called filtration camps. He says people are often held there without food and claims many are deported to Russia against their will. A U.S. official says they are aware of the claims, and if true, it would be a violation really of international law.

While U.S. and Western officials believe Vladimir Putin could formally declare war on Ukraine as soon as May the 9th, that is Victory Day in Russia marking the defeat of Nazis in World War II. Up now if you remember, Russia has called its actions in Ukraine a special military operation, but there could be more. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CARPENTER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE OSCE: According to the most recent reports, we believe that Russia will try to annex the Donetsk People's Republic at the Luhansk People's Republic in, quote, so- called, to Russia. The reports state that Russia has plans to engineer a referenda on joining Russia, sometime in mid-May. And that Moscow is considering a similar plan for Kherson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Troubling indeed. Well meanwhile, Russian forces appear to be pushing farther to the west in Ukraine. Local officials report a number of Russian missile strikes on the city of Odessa. Ukraine's president says a 14 year old boy was killed, and another teen wounded in an attack on a dormitory. There are also signs that Ukrainian forces are fighting back, claiming to hold off 12 Russian attacks in Luhansk and Donetsk over the past day. And video posted online shows the aftermath of the large explosion at an airfield in Russian held area near Kherson. Neither side is commenting on the cause.

Well after the Russians abandoned their campaign around Kyiv in March, residents have been heavily damaged village of Moschun slowly start coming back. CNN's Matt Rivers was there and has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the entrance, to the Ukrainian village of Moschun, an effigy twists in the breeze, a uniform, stripped off a dead Russian soldier, stuffed and hung from a tree. People hate Russia here, because of what it did. The tiny town, northwest of Kyiv, has been leveled. Russian bombs, rockets, bullets, destroyed street after street after street. This was the site of some of the most intense fighting, of the war, so far. On their drive, toward Kyiv, the Russians attacked soldiers and civilians, alike here. Ukrainian bunkers, alongside ordinary houses, shelled relentlessly, to devastating effect.

RIVERS: This was probably somebody's kitchen. You can see, there's a oven there, some pots and pans and microwave. I mean, this isn't a big city. But the scale of destruction, in this village, is on par with anything else we've seen, across Ukraine. I mean, this house gets hit, with artillery. There's a subsequent fire. And just, look, I mean, it's eviscerated. If there is a building in this village that hasn't been damaged in this fighting, we haven't seen it yet.

VALENTINA FURSA, RESIDENT OF MOSCHUN, UKRAINE (through translator): Boom! Boom! Boom! Fire! Fire! It was everywhere. It's nightmare.

[04:15:00]

RIVERS (voice-over): Valentina Fursa has lived in Moschun for years and has never known war until it landed on her doorstep and forced her down into a neighbor's basement.

RIVERS: How scared were you?

FURSA (through translator): We were very scared. My heart was beating very fast. We thought we would die there. The Russians fired indiscriminately.

RIVERS (voice-over): The fighting only eased, when Russia withdrew, from the entire Kyiv region. Valentina, emerging from the basement to find shell casings in her garden, and whatever else the Russians left behind.

RIVERS: So, all these things, she says, the Russians left behind. So, this for washing your hands, another cup of some kind here. There's some sort of life jacket that the Russians use. And then even here, you've got old -- old meal boxes even with some things left inside there that you can see.

RIVERS (voice-over): For nearly two months after the fighting, residents stayed away. A trickle have now started to return. For them Russia's lasting effects here more than just bullet holes and bomb craters.

RIVERS: Not only do people, who are trying to rebuild so often have to start from scratch. But there remains so many mines and pieces of unexploded ordnance that authorities are actually considering closing down this town for a few days until they can clear it.

RIVERS (voice-over): It's open for now though, which meant Valentina Marhonos could come back home, for the first time in weeks. The weather was nice. So, her niece and nephew played on the swing. Different than the last time they were here when they hid in a basement as bombs destroyed everything above.

RIVERS: Is it difficult to think about that? VALENTINA MARHONOS, RESIDENT OF MOSCHUN, UKRAINE (through translator): I don't even know what to say.

RIVERS (voice-over): What we can say is that this tiny town has turned into a symbol of sorts, a village mercilessly attacked that in the end stood its ground, a microcosm perhaps, of the country in which it lies.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Moschun, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Well, joining me now is Mykola Bielieskov. He's a research fellow at the National Institute For Strategic Studies under the president of Ukraine. And Mykola, a very good morning to you. Thanks very much for taking the time to speak to us. Let me start really by getting your thoughts on what we heard from U.S. and Western officials that they believe Vladimir Putin could formally declare war on Ukraine as soon as May the 9th. What would declaring it mean do you think in reality?

MYKOLA BIELIESKOV, RESEARCH FELLOW, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: First of all, I want to say it is also the opinion of our intelligence services, so it's a scenario role to take into account. Well, of course, it would be a factor in this war, because it would mean mobilization of, people mobilization of economy. But in the end, with a statement made by the U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin last week that we need the decree as a Russian ability to threaten both Ukraine and Europe. We understand the level of the U.S. commitment and with U.S. and its allies it's more than 50 percent of GDP compared with one or maybe 2 percent world GDP.

So yes, it would be a turning point of the war if Russia clearly declared, basically declared this is a war and started mobilization of those men and material. But with this western level of Western partners commitment, we can withhold another round of confrontation and we would definitely prevail because it states the basic principle of international order.

SOARES: Yes, and we have seen in the last 24 hours Ukraine forces repulsing I think some 12 attacks across the country. We've seen as well, Ukrainian forces taking back several settlements around Kharkiv. How do you see the push and pull of battle right now?

BIELIESKOV: Well first of all you need to remember the fact of defense we are practicing. It also includes constant counterattacks, including constant shelling because that's the defense. It also constant counterattacks and definitely we have successful strategic defense operation around the Donbas.

Because it's two weeks passed since it was declared that this battle started. And it's only minor tactical incursions on this slow movement, analytical movement, basically as the Pentagon said, it's the best proof that we conduct the strategic defense operations the same as we did around Kyiv and with the supply, concert supply, ammunition and heavy equipment we would exhaust Russian offensive capabilities to stabilize the frontline. And we would know about returning temporal territories in the course of a major counter offense, I suppose.

And what we have also been seeing, Mykola, is more attacks on the city of Odessa. A missile hitting a church in a dormitory killing -- according to President Zelenskyy -- a 14-year-old boy. Do you worry that this could be a prelude to further escalation there?

BIELIESKOV: First of all, the major situation steer toward action is the Donbas. So, the situation in the south of Ukraine is of secondary importance. Because Russians clearly don't have this capabilities for simultaneous assault towards Odessa and to Kyiv. So, they weren't successful in the first stage when they were stopped in Mykolaiv and under this context also taking into account, we successfully destroyed Moscow. So, without both major forces moving on the ground from Mykolaiv region and both assault it's very difficult to envision a major threat towards Odessa. That's why they are helplessly just destroying it with missiles, with antiship missiles because they are lacking, I think surface missiles so they're using only antiship missiles.

SOARES: And what you are suggesting obviously when you are hinting out there, Mykola, what is happening in Odessa is possibly a distraction from the Russians to what's really -- what's happening everywhere else in the east of the country.

Let me ask you about Mariupol. We have seen evacuations on Sunday, 100 or so civilians from inside the Azovstal steel plant. We understand evacuations are expected for this morning for the rest of the city. For a city of Mariupol, 100,000 or so being inside -- are hiding inside. What can you tell us about those evacuations? Have they begun? Do you know what stage they are at? Will further evacuations from the steel plant be taking place today as well?

BIELIESKOV: Well, as you see, Russians are very reticent, to put it mildly, to realize the previous agreement, I mean, to ensure the major evacuation. Because Mariupol is a kind of leverage, humanitarian leverage Russia is using against Ukraine, against political authorities that pressure people's psychology and that's why they are very reticent to make people leave. To make it possible to make people leave. That's why it's only 100 people that were made possible to leave Zaporizhzhia. This debate with Russia would continue to use these tactics to use this very difficult humanitarian situations as a kind of leverage to pressure these people's psychology on Ukrainian political leadership alas.

Mykola Bielieskov, I appreciate you taking time to speak to, thanks very much, Mykola.

BIELIESKOV: Thanks for the intention.

SOARES: Russia's top diplomat strikes out a conspiracy theory about Adolf Hitler in an attempt to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and it is not going down very well. We'll explain next.

[04:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Outrage is erupting around the world over comments the Russian foreign minister made about Adolf Hitler, Jews and Ukraine. Sergey Lavrov told the Italian TV that Hitler had Jewish blood, and that the most ardent antisemites are usually Jews. He was trying to support the Kremlin rhetoric that claims the Russian invasion was needed to de- nazify Ukraine. And he shrugged off the fact that Ukraine has a Jewish president. Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy loudly denounced his remarks. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): How could this be said on the eve of the anniversary of the victory over Nazism. These words mean that Russia's top diplomat is blaming the Jewish people for Nazi crimes. No words. Such an antisemitic thrust by their minister means Russia has forgotten all about the lessons of World War II. Or maybe they never studied those lessons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more on this. I want to bring in Clare Sebastian who is covering this live from London. And Clare, put into context for us what this means exactly for Israel stance on the war in Ukraine right now.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, I think this puts Israel in a tricky position. Because throughout this conflict they had tried to sort of maintain this delicate balance. While it's, yes, they condemned the conflict. They been condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine. They've provided aid to Ukraine. But they have consistently stopped short of for example, joining Western sanctions against Russia.

That is because they have broader security concerns in the region. Russia still has a military presence in Syria, there's issues surrounding Iran as well. All of that matters to Israel. But they have expressed overwhelming outrage at these comments. The Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said the goal of such lies and to accuse the Jews themselves of the most awful crimes in history, and thereby absolve Israel's enemies of responsibility. Even stronger words from the Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, who said this was unforgivable and outrageous statement as well as a terrible historical era.

The Russian ambassador to Israel has now been summoned to the foreign ministry for an explanation. The foreign minister has also demanding an apology. There was outrage as well in the United States. The State Department spokesperson, Ned Price, called their comments by Sergey Lavrov despicable.

So, this does complicate the situation as far as Israel is concerned. It remains to be seen how exactly it might shift their position, but it certainly makes neutrality a little more difficult going forward.

SOARES: And, Clare, let's talk about sanctions on oil and gas in particular. We heard Germany tell CNN yesterday they will support an EU oil embargo on Russia. Is the rest of Europe aligned and readying sanctions against Russia from what you understand?

SEBASTIAN: So, I know, Isa, that the work on sixth package of sanctions is well and truly underway. It's been reported that the proposals themselves will be circulated two EU members today. So that certainly has accelerated. Accelerated partly because of what we saw last week with Russia cutting off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria. Really the first time they had weaponized their energy supplies. And part of the reason for this acceleration, this momentum that we are seeing is because Germany has now said that it is on board.

The finance minister telling CNN on Monday that they would be in favor now of an oil embargo. But of course, they would rather have a phased in approach that would give them time to sort of get organized and get alternatives supplies in place. Is the EU completely aligned on? Not yet -- as far as we know Hungary is still a hold out there, so they cannot cut off Russian energy imports. But there are reports that the EU may be looking at some kind of carve out exemptions perhaps a longer transition for countries like Hungary. So, look, work is exhilarating, we expect to hear news if not today ...

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