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Heavy Battles at Mariupol Plant; EU Proposes Ban on Oil; Vance Wins Ohio GOP Primary; Jeremy Pelzer is Interviewed about the Ohio Primary; Rachel Rebouche is Interviewed about Abortion Law. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired May 04, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:27]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

We are following major breaking news out of Ukraine just in the last few minutes. Heavy fighting has broken out today at the Azovstal steel plant in the city of Mariupol, surrounded by Russian forces. And widely that steel plant seen as the city's last line of defense. And where hundreds of civilians remain barricaded under constant Russian bombardment. The mayor says he has lost contact with the Ukrainian fighters there, and that several civilians, including more than 30 children, are still stuck inside there awaiting evacuation.

All this as Russia says it will destroy NATO convoys of weapons into Ukraine. Could that mean an escalation?

Also back home, outrage across the U.S. Protests in several major cities following the release of a Supreme Court draft opinion that would overturn abortion rights in this country. More on that in just a moment.

Plus, politics. CNN projects that J.D. Vance will win Ohio's GOP Senate nomination. The race billed as the first test of Trump's influence in the upcoming midterms. We will break down the polling numbers, what they say.

We will begin this morning, though, with CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh. He is reporting from Kryvyi Rih, Ukraine.

Nick, this news now about a possible Russian advance now on that steel plant, cutting off the defenders there, but also hundreds of civilians still left behind.

What do we know?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, the precise number of civilians still there unclear. There are apparently 30 children there, according to Vadym Boichenko, the mayor of Mariupol, who also broke the news of this renewed bout of fighting.

Now, just some context here. Over the last days we have seen probably north of 100 or so individuals emerge from the basement, multiple catacombs beneath the steel plant. And we met some of them yesterday coming in to Zaporizhzhia. This renewed fighting announced just now appears to involve artillery, air strikes, you name it, frankly. And it does, according to the Ukrainian mayor of that city, seem to suggest a renewed Russian onslaught against it.

Now, there are Ukrainian wounded soldiers within that steel plant. And, of course, possibly hundreds of Ukrainian defenders still trying to hold Russian forces off. There have been cease-fires that have allow the evacuation of those 100 or so civilians, but clearly deeply perilous situation for those still trapped inside there.

There are evacuations underway we're told by Ukrainian officials again with the auspices of the United Nations and the Red Cross, but not from the steel plant itself. Instead of other civilians from around Mariupol. That mechanism perhaps beginning to get underway under U.N. auspices. Really unclear. But no comfort for those inside the steel plant.

We spoke to Olga (ph), who had spent the last two months there with her six-month-old son -- he spent a third of his life there -- yesterday, and here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLGA, MOM WHO SPENT TWO MONTHS IN AZOVSTAL STEEL PLANT BASEMENT: Now I smile because -- because I can smile finally because all these months I was crying a lot every day. Emotionally it was really very, very difficult. When we didn't have any food or water for him, we just took a candle and we heat water at the -- on the candle.

Now when there are a lot of noise, I have, like, a reflex to hide myself, you know.

WALSH: What are you going to tell him when he's older?

OLGA: I just tell him that he was really very, very brave boy. Very brave. He's very calm. He's the best child in the world. I can say. He's (INAUDIBLE).

WALSH: He's sleeping well. So, that's good.

OLGA: Yes, yes, all the time.

WALSH: That's all you can ask for. Exactly.

OLGA: Yes. And also can say that I don't want for him to -- to repeat this story, or to repeat this story with his child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Relief there, but also still the legacy of the sheer terror experienced in that basement.

Remember, there are dozens of separate catacombs, it seems, in which there are possibly, in some, 30, 40 people still hiding there. That number is reduced because that first evacuation. That onslaught, though, bitter, frankly, and brutal. The Russian

defense minister, Sergey Shoygu, saying they have, quote, reliably blocked the steel factory. This may be some Russian bid to try and draw a line, a brutal, murderous line under what's happening there ahead of May the 9th and the victory parades that Russia will want to have then.

[09:05:07]

But it's also been the situation where Ukraine's had its vote as well and held the Russians back. But I have to say, they've been encircled for quite some time now and this recent attack after the singular evacuation does appear to be some sort of escalation by Moscow, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. And so many left behind here and so many apparently the deliberate targets, once again, of the Russian military, civilians.

Nick Paton Walsh, thanks so much.

Also this morning, the European Union is preparing to hit Russia with a new round of sanctions which could include banning the purchase of Russian oil, as well as holding individuals accountable for war crimes. And we've seen so much evidence of war crimes in the country in recent weeks.

CNN's Anna Stewart joins me now with more.

So, Anna, I guess the key questions here are, what will be targeted, but crucially on what timeline, right? Will this be immediate or will it take weeks and months, as many of these measures have taken so far?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, it really depends, I think, on what we're going to see from the EU later today and later this week. But this is a major escalation in terms of EU sanctions. Arguably the most significant we've actually seen yet.

And the biggest elements that have been proposed so far today was disconnecting Russia's biggest banks, Sperbank (ph) from the SWIFT international payments network and a ban on Russian oil this year. Now, that is really significant. Before this the current plan was to wean itself of Russian oil by 2027. This plan gives them just six months.

And the escalation we're seeing in these sanctions very much reflects the escalation of the conflict on the ground, as Ursula von der Leyen, the EU commission president, said earlier today.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EU COMMISSION PRESIDENT: This sends another important signal to all perpetrators of the Kremlin, we know who you are, we will hold you accountable, you're not getting away with this.

Putin must pay a price, a high price for his brutal aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: And the price here, Jim, is really high. The EU is Russia's biggest customer. Last year, in just in terms of oil, it brought in $95 billion in revenue. But there's also a price here for the EU. And that's actually something the Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, spoke about earlier today. He called these measures a double-edged sword.

The EU will have to replace nearly a third of all their imported oil from somewhere else. It will hit some EU member states harder than others, those more reliant on Russian oil. And that is why there's been huge opposition actually in recent weeks. Germany is on board. That was critical.

But look at this tweet from the Hungarian government spokesperson just a few hours ago saying, we do not see any plans or guarantees on how a transition could be managed based on the current proposals and how Hungary's energy security would be guaranteed.

Now, for the EU to actually enact this proposal, it has been to be a unanimous decision. And there still seems to be some holdouts here. So, bringing those on board will be important.

But if there are exemptions, if there are extensions, that will sort of weaken the impact that these sanctions are supposed to have.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And politics supreme here, right? Remembering Hungary's ties to the Putin regime prior to the invasion. Do those still survive in some way?

Anna Stewart, thanks so much.

Politics now.

Former President Trump's endorsement power holding strong so far, at least in big primaries in Ohio and Indiana last night. In Ohio, the Trump-backed candidate, J.D. Vance, a venture capitalist and author, won the GOP primary for Senate in the first big midterm test of Trump's influence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, APPARENT WINNER OF OHIO GOP SENATE PRIMARY: I have absolutely got to thank the 45th, the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump, ladies and gentlemen.

They wanted to write a story that this campaign would be the death of Donald Trump's America first agenda. Ladies and gentlemen, it ain't the death of the America first agenda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Notable there, he didn't say former president. He said "the president."

Vance will face off with sitting Congressman Tim Ryan, who won the Democratic Senate primary.

CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes is live in Columbus, Ohio, this morning.

So, Kristen, it's early. There were two states. But some signs that that endorsement was decisive, at least in the primary. What do we know?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely, Jim. I mean remember this, Vance was trailing in the polls before he got the endorsement of the former president. It really boosted him and separated him in a field of many people who were trying to get that endorsement running on a Trumpian agenda. So it will be interesting to see that actually play out.

And there were a lot of eyes on that race. Many believing that this is a litmus test for the former president. Just how strong is his grip over the Republican Party? And if last night is any indication, at least here in Ohio, president -- the former president has an enormous amount of influence and power still within the Republican Party.

Now, Vance is going to run against, as you mentioned, Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan.

[09:10:02]

Ryan easily won his primary. The two are competing in the fall for retiring Republican Senator Rob Portman's seat, a critical seat Republicans need to hold on to that if they want to take the majority.

And, Jim, the other race I want to point out here is that of the governor. The Ohio governor, the incumbent, Mike DeWine, did win his primary against some more conservative challengers last night. He will face off in the fall against Nan Whaley. She won her primary. She's a Democrat there. She's the former mayor of Dayton, Ohio.

But the big thing here to keep in mind is that this is just the beginning of an incredibly busy month of primaries. And the big question is how exactly will that Trump effect go moving forward? What is that going to look like?

Now, sources close to the president say that they believe that this is actually going to give a boost of momentum to other Trump endorsed candidates across the country. Something we're going to be watching very closely to see if there is, in fact, a ripple effect, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Mike DeWine did not have Trump's endorsement, we should note that, won his primary as well.

Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

I'm joined now by Jeremy Pelzer. He is the political reporter for cleveland.com, covering Ohio politics. Jeremy, good to have you on this morning.

Here's a question. Primary is fundamentally different from the general election. We don't know yet, but is Vance, in Ohio, the stronger candidate for Republicans in the general as well as in the primary?

JEREMY PELZER, POLITICAL REPORTER, CLEVELAND.COM: Well, that's certainly the argument that Donald Trump made when he made the endorsement for Vance. He argued that Vance was the strongest candidate to beat Tim Ryan this fall. In Ohio you have to understand that Ohio is a solidly Trump state. He won here both in 2016 and in 2020 by more than eight points. So, Vance enters the general election campaign as the favorite even though Tim Ryan is perhaps the best candidate that the Democrats could field given that he has sort of a -- projects a blue collar image, similar to U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown, the Democratic senator from Ohio.

SCIUTTO: That's my next question because Sherrod Brown, there's always this debate now currently, is Ohio now largely a red state or is it still a purple state? Sherrod Brown, he won statewide in 2018 I think by seven points as a Democrat. What's your view? Is it too early to declare Ohio reliably Republican as we look forward to the midterms?

PELZER: I think in the past couple of elections it has been reliably Republican with the exception of Sherrod Brown. However, it's -- I learned a long time ago not to call elections before they happen.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PELZER: And Tim Ryan, you can't count him out. He has strong name I.D. from being the congressman from Mahoning Valley for many, many years. And there is also some disappointment with J.D. Vance. While yesterday was a very, very good day for Trump, every candidate he endorsed in the Ohio primary won last night, not just Vance, but other congressional candidates, like former aide Max Miller and Madison Gesiotto Gilbert. She -- basically it's going to be an interesting campaign that's going to be determined by money. And both of them will have a lot of money going into the Senate race.

SCIUTTO: What does DeWine's win in his primary state about the need for a Trump endorsement? Of course he did not. I mean DeWine is a governor who bucked the former president on issues, for instance, Covid policy and other stands. Is that indicative at all as to where the party stands in Ohio right now?

PELZER: Well, as you heard, Trump didn't endorse in that race.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PELZER: And DeWine, at least until pretty recently, has been considered to be a pretty conservative public official who's been in Ohio for 40 years. And for the main reason that DeWine won last night is because he had a split opposition. He had three candidates running against him, DeWine got less than 50 percent of the vote. And if there was one candidate running against him, there's a much bigger chance that DeWine would not have made it. But, as it is, he did. SCIUTTO: Jeremy Pelzer, thanks for breaking it down.

PELZER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, enhanced security now at the Supreme Court as protests erupt over the draft opinion that shows the court may be set to overturn Roe v. Wade after some 50 years. We're going to speak to a lawyer who is breaking down the domino effect this could set off in states across the country.

Plus, new surveillance video emerges of the Alabama corrections officer who broke an inmate out of jail. What we're learning about a romantic relationship between the pair.

And later, a shocking incident at a Dave Chappelle show.

[09:15:04]

Some video here. The comedian was tackled on stage by a man carrying a knife. His attacker is now charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Hear what Chappelle told the audience about it and how Chris Rock got involved. That's coming up.

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SCIUTTO: Right now, officials are ramping up security measures around the Supreme Court after the leak of a draft opinion that would overturn abortion rights in this country after more than 50 years. That leaked decision sparked large protests in Washington outside the court, as well as in other cities around the country, as you can see there. Chief Justice John Roberts ordered an investigation into the leak, calling it an egregious breach of trust.

[09:20:03]

The implications, though, for this country of overturning the landmark abortion rights decision are far and wide and to some degree unknown. Experts are now contemplating how far anti-abortion lawmakers will go to put limits on lawful abortions performed in other states if the draft opinion holds. Vice President Harris calls those efforts a direct assault on freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those Republican leaders who are trying to weaponize the use of the law against women, well, well we say, how dare they! How dare they tell a woman what she can do and cannot do with her own body!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us to discuss is Rachel Rebouche. She's the interim dean of the Temple University Law School, also an expert on reproductive and public health law.

Rachel, good to have you today. You say that if this draft opinion holds, and we may know in a couple

of months, the U.S. will quickly move to a divided country. Some people having the right to an abortion, others not. Abortion rights groups speak of perhaps 26 states that would immediately move to allow or greatly limit this.

Is that what we're looking to, that part of the country, women will be able to do it, part of the country they will not?

RACHEL REBOUCHE, INTERIM DEAN, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: I think that's right. I mean it -- there are -- 26 states are ready to ban almost all abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned through a variety of means. Some have passed trigger laws, laws that state once Roe is no longer the law of the land, abortion will be banned, it will be criminalized. Other states have kept their pre-Roe laws on the books. And then in the other half of the country, you have states that are actively protecting abortion rights, like Connecticut, California. And then I think you have another set of states like potentially my state, Pennsylvania, that won't rush to ban abortion, but may leave some of its restrictions on the books.

SCIUTTO: Question, abortion -- anti-abortion rights activists are already saying that they won't stop there, that their goal will be a nationwide ban. How does that play out in the courts? Will we see court challenges in blue states, abortion right states if we want to call them that, that keep abortion rights laws on the books? Will they be then challenged? And then what happens if they go up to the highest court? Does the court necessarily uphold a state's right to decide this?

REBOUCHE: Well, it's really interesting because Justice Alito's draft, the leaked draft, the thrust of that opinion is that abortion laws should be a topic governed by states. It's states that should decide whether or not to permit abortion and to what extent. And so I think it would be interesting if the Supreme Court, in a challenge to a state that's seeking to expand abortion rights, would then say a state doesn't have the power to do that.

If the federal government, if Congress passes a national abortion ban, well, then that would preempt state laws that seek to protect abortion rights. And the nature of whether or not that law is constitutional, that certainly could be litigated, but I think it would have -- there would be -- it would be an interesting strategy to see what kinds of constitutional challenges would be brought against a nationwide ban.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

REBOUCHE: But, in the meantime, states are going to be able to regulate per their own politics and, I think you're right, I think that the end goal here for those who oppose abortion is not just to ban abortion within a state, but to ban it across the country.

SCIUTTO: That's interesting because folks talk about congressional action to protect abortion rights. In a certain political environment, you could have congressional action to do the opposite. I do want to ask about medical -- medication abortion. Many pregnancies ended today -- perhaps half I think is the latest data -- by a pill rather than visiting a doctor. You say that the portability of medication abortion changes the access landscape. Is that going to be a replacement, in effect, and is there a potential legal challenge to that means of abortion?

REBOUCHE: Well, I think, you know, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and states are able to ban abortion, they'll be able to ban all abortion, medication abortion, surgical abortion, abortion by aspiration. And I think how medication abortion is changing the landscape for access is the rise of telehealth for medication abortion.

Since the FDA has lifted a rule that required patients to go to a healthcare facility and pick up the first drug in the medication abortion, since that rule has changed, there have been proliferation of virtual clinics that offer medication abortions through telehealth means. And so you can have a provider in Maine prescribe and send abortion pills to a patient in New Mexico.

[09:25:03]

And so that is really changing the question of access in fundamental ways.

But there will always be a need for brick and mortar clinics. Medication abortion is effective or approved by the FDA before ten weeks of pregnancy. So, after that point, you still need to -- you'll still need to find a healthcare facility if you're seeking to terminate a pregnancy.

SCIUTTO: Yes. So many implications of this and we're going to be digesting them for some time.

Rachel Rebouche, thanks so much for breaking it down.

REBOUCHE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, a new watchdog report shows just how far the Trump administration went to downplay U.S. intelligence about Russian interference in the 2020 election. Those findings coming up.

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