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Right Now, Heavy Fighting at Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol; Families of Americans Detained Abroad Protest at White House; Actress Amber Heard Could Take the Stand Today in Defamation Trial. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 04, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Let some evacuees leave the Azovstal steel plant but not a wider group of civilians and many remain behind.

[10:30:07]

This as the mayor says that heavy fighting has now broken out, new fighting in the steel plant this morning, concerns that it may have been breached by Russian forces.

Political Editor and COO of the Kyiv Independent Oleksiy Sorokin joins me now to talk about the latest developments there. Alexei, it's good to have you on.

I wonder what your reporters are hearing about the latest on the fighting in the Azovstal steel plant. It's concerning to learn the Ukrainian commanders have now lost contact with the remaining fighters inside there.

OLEKSIY SOROKIN, POLITICAL EDITOR AND COO, THE KYIV INDEPENDENT: Unfortunately, we have information that apparently Azovstal was breached, that fighting is going inside the plant and we obviously heard reports every day that the Azovstal plant can fall yesterday, two days ago, a month ago, but, unfortunately, today, it looks like it's about hours until the plant will be seized by the Russians.

SCIUTTO: Based on what we know about how Russian forces operate against civilians but also against possible prisoners of war, opposing fighters, what is the likely fate of the people still holed up in that plant?

SOROKIN: Unfortunately, I don't even want to imagine what can happen to Mariupol defenders, especially knowing that the Azov battalion is widely -- the Russian propaganda uses the battalion and calling it neo-Nazi, meaning that, obviously, something bad may happen to defenders.

Also, we have reports that Russia is planning a military parade in Mariupol, and, unfortunately, we have reports that many prisoners of war may be shown by Russian propaganda during the May 9th celebrations in Russia.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you this. These people, hundreds of civilians have been holed up in that plant for weeks now. We had Nick Paton Walsh on earlier. A six-month-old baby spent a third of the baby's life hiding underground.

There were calls for humanitarian corridors. There were calls for rescue plans, internationally supervised rescue plans for the civilians and the fighters. Did the west fail here?

SOROKIN: Yes. I think the United Nations and the Red Cross failed to save those people that are currently bombed in Azovstal.

SCIUTTO: Well, we're seeing, I think, that baby there that we were talking about, a third of its life underground.

What does that say going forward? Because the Russian invasion is not over, there's the potential that Russia surrounds other civilians in other cities, and we know they now control other cities, such as Kherson, where, in fact, the people, to some degree, are prisoners, right, Russian forces. Do we have to expect more of this, sadly?

SOROKIN: Unfortunately, many people in the west saw that Bucha is a one-time thing, that it was some kind of special Russian special battalion that did all the atrocities. But, unfortunately, talking to soldiers on the frontlines, talking to people in recently liberated areas, we know that Russian troops are committing war crimes all over Ukraine. And, unfortunately, what happened in Bucha and Borodyanka and in Mariupol will happen again and again until Russians are kicked out of Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: It's not isolated, it's a way of doing war.

You said, though, that when you met with Ukrainian forces on the frontline, you've never been more convinced that Ukraine will win the war. Why? Why do you have that confidence?

SOROKIN: Because seeing that, for two months, the Ukrainian soldiers that are obviously lower numbers than the invading Russians with far less ammunition, weapons are holding on, conducting counteroffensive operations and saying that if we had more weapons, we would already liberate not only Kherson but Crimea. Their morale is high and I believe that they will do everything they can to protect their lives.

SCIUTTO: We'll continue to watch closely. Oleksiy Sorokin joining us from Kyiv, Ukraine, thanks so much.

Back in this country, passionate pleas outside the White House this morning as families of Americans unlawfully detained abroad, some of them for many years, pleading with the Biden administration to take more action. We're going to hear about one family struggle to bring their loved ones home, two of them, from Iran. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

SCIUTTO: This morning, families of America's unlawfully detained, Russia, Iran and other countries, they're protesting in front of the White House. They hope to secure a meeting with President Biden that could then lead to their loved ones returning home.

Also joining in on the protest are family members of Trevor Reed, the Marine veteran who luckily was just released from Russian detention last week. Reed's father told CNN this morning that President Biden needs to step in and help get other Americans back to the U.S., as he did with Trevor Reed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't think of a thing more important for the president to do than protect individual Americans who are being targeted by the enemies of our nation.

[10:40:00]

All presidents, all parties are reluctant to meet with hostage and detainee families. It's a lose-lose they feel. Well, right now, I think you've see that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress are united on this issue. Our Republican representatives and senator praised the president for his actions and you don't see that very often anymore today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Yes, bipartisan effort there.

Let's get to CNN's John Harwood at the White House. So, John, there are different circumstances with each of these detainees, different countries. It's not an easy game here for any administration of any party. What is the status of White House efforts and how big a challenge?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a huge challenge, Jim, as you know, because if you're the administration, negotiating to get these individuals out in countries with whom we have fraught relations on various fronts is extremely difficult. It takes place in private. But the only way the families can get the administration into those extensive serious, private negotiations is by putting public pressure on. That's what we saw with the family of Trevor Reed.

We saw that over the weekend with the family of Austin Tice being held for ten years in Syria. He's going, their family is going to get a meeting with the president. And Trevor Reed's famil, having seen others left behind while Trevor was released, are stepping forward today to try to assist them. But think about the complications, with respect to Trevor Reed and Paul Whelan, who's one of those who's left behind, his family members are here today.

This is a situation where involving a country with whom the United States is in a hostile conflict through the proxy of Ukraine. The United States is helping Ukraine fight a war against Russia. Brittney Griner is also caught up in that jet stream. With the case of Iran, you've got very fraught negotiations, a sensitive nuclear deal going on.

With respect Citgo 6, these are people being held in Venezuela. You've got the administration at odds, of course, with the totalitarian or authoritarian Maduro regime, while also being concerned about global oil supplies. There was an administration officials' trip to Venezuela a few weeks ago that drew tremendous criticism for why you're meeting with the Maduro regime. They were working on these hostages in addition to whatever they were doing with respect to the oil market.

So, very difficult situation if you're the families, the only answer for you is to put public pressure on and that's what's happening today.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And, gosh, you understand their pain as they do. John Harwood at the White House, thanks so much.

So, one of the family members still appealing to President Biden but not in person in Washington today, is Babak Namazi, whose brother and father are now detained in Iran. Babak's brother, Siamak, was arrested and detained in 2015, accused of being a spy for the U.S. He was sentenced to ten years in prison. So, his father goes to Iran, 85- year-old Baquer, he went there in 2016 under the premise he'd be able to see Siamak, perhaps help him. But when Baquer landed, he was also arrested. His sentence has since been community but he's in poor health is barred, remains barred from leaving the country.

Babak Namazi joins me now. Babak, good to have you on this morning.

BABAK NAMAZI, SON AND BROTHER OF AMERICANS HELD IN IRAN: Hi, good morning, Jim. Thank you for having me on.

SCIUTTO: So, first, I understand you have some communication with your brother who remains in prison there but also your father who is out but suffering through health challenges. Tell us how they're doing now. What are they able to tell you?

NAMAZI: Jim, it's been a nightmare beyond description. I mean, this nightmare has been going on for my family for the past 6.5 years, through three U.S. administrations and presidents. I have not been able to see my father and my brother for over 6.5 years, and I wake up every day with horror and fear that I will never see them again, especially my father.

My mother is not doing well, and he is 85-year-old man who's gone through multiple operations, a few of them while in custody. And my brother, Siamak, has been held for such a long time under devastating conditions.

And every day that goes by, the family becomes more devastated, more hopeless, and there's nothing worse for families like mine to be felt we are in darkness without any light, any hope of our family members being reunited. That's where we are today.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. The case of Trevor Reed, the U.S. negotiated his release with Russia in the midst of, well, perhaps the worst period in U.S./Russia relations in many decades and the war in Ukraine.

[10:45:03] Does that give you hope that the U.S. and Iran perhaps could negotiate your brother and father's release?

NAMAZI: My hope, of course, is renewed when I see what has happened with the Reed family. At the same time, my disappointment grows, because I see what happens when we and other families have been pushing, that if the president takes decisive action, if he takes and makes difficult decisions and if he deploys the tools that he has under his power, we will seek immediate results, as we did with the Trevor Reed family. And that's exactly what will happen with my family as well as others, if the president can make those difficult and grave decisions today. Many families including mine can be reunited almost immediately.

SCIUTTO: Do you feel that the Biden administration -- and, by the way, I know you've criticized previous administrations, the Obama administration and Trump administration, during which your brother has been held there for having a failed policy, but do you believe the Biden administration is making enough of an effort? What is standing in the way, in your view?

NAMAZI: I mean, clearly, not enough has been done. My brother and my dad have been left behind on three or four different occasions. So, I just don't understand now my brother being one of the longest held hostages in Iran, American hostages, and what is standing in the way are those decisions that a president and President Biden needs to make and the White House needs to make, enabling the release of my family members as well as other hostages.

It's been difficult to say the least. We know it requires difficult decisions, but they're necessary, as we saw with the Trevor Reed family case, how quickly after so many years of suffering, once the president was engaged. And that's what we are calling for is President Biden's engagement and direct involvement. Because, undoubtedly, his engagement and his decisive action is what has been lacking and what will result in the release of family members.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, I know your family has gone through so many years of suffering here, and I do hope you find some relief soon. Babak Namazi, thanks so much.

NAMAZI: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, the psychologist who testified that Amber Heard has PTSD from her alleged abuse by Johnny Depp is now back on the stand, this time, she is going to be questioned by Depp's attorneys. We're going to have the latest in this case, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

SCIUTTO: Happening now, testimony of Johnny Depp's defamation trial against Actress Amber Heard. Heard is expected to take the stand for the first time today, but her legal team called a forensic psychologist first and that witness now being cross-examined. The psychologist says that she diagnosed Heard with post-traumatic stress disorder from her marriage to Depp, a claim contradicted what Depp's expert witness testified last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWN HUGHES, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: When Mr. Depp was drunk or high, he threw her on the bed, ripped off her nightgown and tried to have sex with her.

These weren't in loving moments. These were angry moments, moments of dominance, moments of him trying to get control over her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Entertainment Reporter Chloe Melas is following the trial. The question, of course, is what impact Heard's testimony is expected to have?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Well, look, we think that we are just a few hours away from Amber Heard finally taking the stand. Jim, it's been several weeks of hearing Johnny's side. They've called witnesses, like his sister, a forensic psychologist who last week says that she diagnosed Amber Heard with borderline personality disorder.

This all coming in the midst of Amber Heard reportedly firing her public relations team because she wasn't happy with the headlines and sort of the court of public opinion in Johnny's favor, we're literally listening right now to Dr. Dawn Hughes being cross-examined by Johnny's team.

We just heard an audio recording of Amber Heard admitting to actually physically hitting Johnny Depp. And so you're having Dr. Hughes sort of trying to defend Amber's actions. And she even said that Johnny Depp backing away from that particular fight was admirable.

So, it's going to be interesting to see what Amber Heard has to say, especially yesterday, hearing from Dr. Dawn Hughes, that there was physical and sexual violence allegedly by Johnny, which both of which he's denied. Johnny says that he is the one, Jim, that has been the victim of domestic violence when he was married to Amber Heard.

SCIUTTO: The question, of course, here is the careers as well of these two people in Hollywood after this, Johnny Depp in particular.

MELAS: What a complicated situation. Amber Heard who stars in the Aqua Man franchise, there are several million signatures on a petition to have her removed from the film. No word if the actual film studio is even taking that seriously.

Now, Johnny Depp, yes, he hasn't had a major movie since Pirates of the Caribbean, the franchise dropped him, and that's why he is suing Amber Heard, saying that it's hurt his career.

[10:55:03]

But, actually, the court of public opinion looks to be heavily in Johnny's favor right now.

So, I would say, even if he doesn't win this defamation suit, which he didn't win his previous one, and it's a really high bar to prove defamation, Jim, as you know, I think that, actually, it's oddly helped his career.

SCIUTTO: Wow, remarkable. Chloe Melas, thank you so much for covering this for us.

And thanks so much to all of you for watching us today.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

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[11:00:00]