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Will Putin Officially Declare War on Ukraine?; Interview With Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL); Mariupol Evacuation Efforts Continue. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 04, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The White House Correspondents Association President, Steven Portnoy, telling CNN the association publicized its COVID protocols and encouraged boosters before that event.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thank you for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera.

And we began this hour in Ukraine. Hope and dread are emerging today from the ruins of Mariupol. And that's the destroyed steel plant there that is the city's last stand of resistance. These are some new images we are receiving of Russia absolutely pulverizing the steel plant complex.

Mariupol's mayor says he has lost contact now with the last of the defenders, as Russian forces have ramped up their bombardment from land, sea and air. Hundreds of civilians are believed to still be trapped there, including 30 children.

Meantime, more than 150 civilians who evacuated from Mariupol have now arrived in the city of Zaporizhzhia. More than 500 others were reportedly evacuated to the Russian-occupied Donetsk region. And that's according to its separate his government, which Ukraine regards as a terrorist group.

And Europe is going further than ever to strangle Russia's economy. The E.U. Commission president is proposing a ban on all Russian oil by the end of the year, along with additional new sanctions. A Kremlin spokesman says the moves would punish European citizens as well.

CNN's Scott McLean is covering all the latest developments. He's joining us from Lviv, Ukraine.

Scott, first, what are you learning about the fighting right now at that steel plant in Mariupol?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is not looking good for any kind of evacuation efforts out of that steel plant, Ana. You mentioned those images, which are absolutely terrifying to look

at, where you see that plant just getting smothered in smoke, suffocated in smoke, it seems.

Sorry. I'm distracted only because the air raid sirens are going off here in the city. They went off yesterday at around this time as well for about an hour. And, obviously, we had those missile strikes, so this city on high alert.

But the city of Mariupol, obviously, a much more dire situation than here. The mayor there says that there are still 30 children trapped underground. And they are very much in need of some kind of negotiation, some kind of an evacuation effort to actually get them out.

Also, the mayor says that they have not only been hitting it from the air and from land, but they have also moved a ship as well close to that plant. And they have been hitting it from the deck of that ship, Ana.

The Russians say that they have the plant surrounded on all sides, but they are not storming it specifically, because they have gotten orders from President Putin not to do that. But what they do say that they're doing, Ana, is they are suppressing militants' attempts to take new firing positions.

Again, all of this is not looking good for anyone who wants to get out of that area. And also keep in mind that two young women were killed earlier this week. So, even though people are able to shelter deep underground under this plant, parts of it are caving in. We know that there's rubble in parts of it.

And so there are no guarantees that anyone would survive.

CABRERA: Scott, first and foremost, if you need to take shelter because of those air raid sirens, please just say the word. We want to protect you and our other crew members there.

But if you feel safe, what can you tell us about this proposed oil ban and other sanctions on Russia that we're hearing from the E.U. today?

MCLEAN: Yes, so this is the latest.

This is the sixth package of sanctions proposed by the European Union, and it proposes an all-out ban on Russian oil. This obviously wouldn't take effect immediately. They would have to work up towards this, but it would be something gradual.

But there are already signs that not everyone is on board. They would need all 27 E.U. member states to get on board in order to make this happen. And the Hungarians are already suggesting that it simply is not feasible.

The other really notable part of the sanctions package, which is wide- ranging, is the fact that there are sanctions put on one particular individual, and that's the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, a man who has found all kinds of reasons to support the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The Russians say that this is proof that the sanctions are out of touch with common sense, considering that the Russian Orthodox Church is constantly praying for the health and safety of people fleeing this war. They also said, when it comes to oil, that sanctions are a double-edged sword, and while this may be intended to hurt Russia, it may well also hurt European citizens, Ana.

CABRERA: Scott McLean, thank you for your continued reporting there.

And now to Russia and the Kremlin's dismissal of speculation that Vladimir Putin might declare war on Ukraine on May 9, which is Russia's Victory Day, the day Russia commemorates victory over the Nazis in World War II.

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CNN's Matthew Chance joins us live from Moscow.

And we do want to remind our viewers that Russia has introduced strict laws regarding how the conflict in Ukraine is described and has prohibited the broadcasts of information that it regards as false.

So, Matthew, a Kremlin spokesperson is rejecting allegations that Putin could declare war on May 9. What else is he saying about these reports?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ana.

I mean, this is a suggestion that's been made by U.S. officials, other Western officials as well, that May the 9th, when Russia celebrates Victory Day, which commemorates the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany in the 1940s -- I mean, we call it the end of the Second World War -- could be used as an opportunity not just to publicly display Russia's might, as it is every year, not just to showcase the country's nuclear arsenal, which it does every year by parading its intercontinental ballistic missiles through the streets of the capital and across Red Square in the heart of Moscow.

But it could also be used by the Russian president as an opportunity to make a significant statement of some kind about the current conflict in Ukraine, what Russia calls its special military operations, speculation that it could be used as an opportunity to formally declare war on Ukraine by Russia, which would give Russia the ability legally to mobilize more of its forces and bring them to bear inside Ukraine.

The Kremlin has rejected that as nonsense. That was the word that the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov used, dismissing the idea that this is going to be any kind of special announcement on Victory Day on May the 9th regarding the special military operation in Ukraine.

But I will say that, over the past couple of months, Ana, we have learned that we should judge what Russia does, rather than what it says. Sometimes, it says things that -- says it's not going to do things, and then does them. I'm thinking about its decision to send troops over the border into Ukraine in the first place.

And so we will be watching that May -- that May the 9th Victory Day parade very closely. We will be there. And we will bring you what Vladimir Putin says about -- about the conflict.

CABRERA: And, Matthew, how is the Kremlin responding to this news that the European Union will ban all Russian oil imports by the end of the year?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, it's not happy about it, because, obviously, the European Union is one of the biggest importers of Russian oil.

And if it eventually manages to succeed in tapering off its dependence on oil over the course of the next six months, which is what the European Union has said it wants to do, that will represent a massive economic blow to Russia.

The Russians have said, look, at the moment -- this is the Kremlin spokesman saying this -- look, at the moment, these are just discussions. We are keeping a very close eye on it.

But they have also warned that it's a double-edged sword, that, if you cut off Russian supplies of oil to Europe, you hurt Russia, but you also hurt consumers in the European Union as well, Ana.

CABRERA: Matthew Chance, thank you.

Let's continue this conversation with Andrea Kendall-Taylor, a CNN national security analyst and a former deputy national intelligence officer, and retired Major General Paul Eaton, a CNN military analyst.

Thank you both for being here.

Andrea, you heard Matthew's reporting that the Kremlin denies it will formally declare war on Monday, the nation's Victory Day. The Kremlin called those reports nonsense. Do you believe the Kremlin?

ANDREA KENDALL-TAYLOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think this is going to be a really fraught decision for President Putin. And there's both benefits to for him to mobilize the public that way and declare war officially, but there's also tremendous risks.

So, for President Putin, their forces in Ukraine are depleted. And so it's my sense that he would need a mobilization in order to replenish those Russian forces fighting in Ukraine and to have any chance at really securing the victory that he's trying to accomplish.

But it is also fraught with risks for him. If he does mobilize the public, I think he has to significantly escalate or increase Russia's objectives in Ukraine, because how else do you justify to the public why you have to mobilize the public for those ends?

So it would inflate Russian expectations and, in that sense, I think create a lot of real risks for Putin. So it's a really fraught decision and, certainly, the decision that I'm looking for on Monday the 9th. CABRERA: General, I want to again show this video that we obtained a

short time ago. And it just shows the devastating bombardment of that steel complex in Mariupol, or what's left of it, I should say.

Hundreds of civilians are still trapped there. How does anyone survive that?

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MAJ. GEN. PAUL EATON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Ana, thank you.

Artillery is an area fire weapon. It is a -- it's a great tool that the Russians love to use to prepare the battlefield for a ground assault.

It's remarkable how humans can dig in and survive the most appalling indirect fire episode that you can imagine. The number of times that armies have prepared the battlefield with artillery fire, shifted fires beyond the objective, and then moved to assault the objective, only to be met by devastating direct fire systems, it's -- it -- you just can't truly estimate the outcome based on knowing the defender is determined to survive and to return fire when the assault comes.

So it may be devastating fires. It looks like it, but it may not achieve the effect that the Russians are after.

CABRERA: Andrea, I want to ask you about a new approach the Biden administration is taking to try to put the squeeze on Russia.

We have learned the president is asking Congress to make it easier for highly educated Russians to get work visas here in the U.S. The idea is this could cause what's referred to as a brain drain on Russia from critical fields like science, engineering, technology and math. What do you make of this strategy? Will it be effective?

KENDALL-TAYLOR: Well, I think it's a really positive step. It not only helps the U.S. economy by drawing this top talent to the United States. But, as you said, it serves as a brain drain, kind of luring away Russia's best and brightest.

Brain drain has been a longstanding problem under President Putin. Many Russians, the best and brightest, have sought to leave Russia. That really only accelerated after Putin's invasion in Ukraine. I think something like 200,000 Russians have left since then. Many are the best and brightest.

So it's a positive step. And I see it as one that's consistent with President (sic) Austin's description of U.S. strategy, which is to try to restrict and constrain Russia's capacity. By drawing those Russians out of the country and to the United States, it will make it much harder for Russia to be able to innovate.

And I would expect, over the long term, in conjunction with things like the export controls on key sectors of the Russian economy, that it will make it much harder for Russia to continue to innovate, and it will fall behind in key sectors. So I think it's a long-term strategy, but one that can be effective.

CABRERA: General, back to the battlefield, Ukraine's security service claims it has intercepted more communications, this time involving a Russian soldier and his friend.

And this Russian soldier reportedly says Russia has lost more lives in Ukraine than in four years of fighting in Chechnya, and that even Russia's elite forces can't stand the pressure from Ukrainian defenders.

Now, CNN has not been able to verify the authenticity of this recording, but it is consistent with other reporting about Russia's military struggles. If true, General, what does that tell you about the strength of Russia's fighters right now?

EATON: Ana, they're in a very, very difficult position right now.

Units can only tolerate a certain number of casualties. And, typically, when you hit the one-third point, where you take 30 to 33 percent casualties, units have a very difficult time operating, simply as command-and-control is broken up, the web and the consistencies within the unit are broken up.

The fact that you take casualties, you have to manage your casualties. So you take fighters offline to manage casualties. And then you have the morale of the unit, the moral component that the British -- their phraseology.

So, right now, the command-and-control of the Russian army has a very, very serious problem. They have units that are combat-ineffective. You have units that are looking around, going, what are we doing here? They don't really know. They have not had the level of information that we give the youngest American soldier and Marine.

It's just, this unit, this army is not going to be able to reconstitute for a very long time.

CABRERA: Major General Paul Eaton and Andrea Kendall-Taylor, thank you both so much for being here. I appreciate your expertise.

Now, the fight to stop the potential end of abortion rights is picking up steam. Democrats are preparing a bill that would protect a woman's choice, even if the Supreme Court does overturn Roe v. Wade.

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We will discuss with Senator Tammy Duckworth. She supports this move.

And it's a decision that could make your credit card bills, your mortgage payments and others much more expensive. And it's coming less than an hour from now. What to expect from the Fed's rate hike announcement just ahead.

Plus: A man with a knife tackles comedian Dave Chappelle on stage. The video and what police are saying about this attack. Stay with us.

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CABRERA: The anger and the fear are palpable as a leaked draft opinion reveals the Supreme Court is poised to overturn Roe v. Wade.

If that's the true outcome, analysis from the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization, finds more than half the states could ultimately ban abortions.

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Take a look at this. The states in red are considered certain to ban abortions. Some could do so immediately, due to so-called trigger laws passed in anticipation of Roe being overturned.

Other states have already passed legislation that bans or puts extreme limits on abortions, like Texas and, most recently, Oklahoma. In fact, Oklahoma's near total ban forbids anyone from performing the procedure at any point in pregnancy and does not have exceptions for rape or incest.

The Guttmacher Institute also says that banning abortions does not reduce their occurrence. Its studies find the abortion rates are similar in countries where the procedure is restricted and in countries where it is legal. So, in fact, the institute says research shows the rate of abortions has actually declined since the procedure was legalized in 1973 here in the U.S.

So who are the women having abortions? Based on the latest CDC data released this year, but collected in 2019 -- that's the latest we have -- half live below the poverty line. About half are unmarried. Most are in their 20s. And almost all, nine in 10, are within their first trimester. About half are having an abortion for the first time. And most already have at least one child. They are already mothers.

Supporters of abortion rights are urgently calling on Congress to act.

And with us now is Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois.

Thanks so much for being here, Senator.

You have heard the calls for action. What are Democrats prepared to do?

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Well, we are prepared to pass legislation, at least put legislation on the floor, that would enshrine a woman's right to reproductive choice that we are willing to put on the floor and hold people accountable.

And you need to vote on this, whether or not you think that women should be in control of their bodies. And I think that we should codify Roe v. Wade into law, the right to access the privacy rights over your own body and your decision to what you want to do with your body. CABRERA: But a bill to codify wrote, to protect abortion rights

garnered only 46 votes in the Senate this past February. So that's far from the 60 votes that would be needed to actually pass this legislation.

It's not even 50 votes, which are needed if you got rid of the filibuster, right? So, I mean, is this more than symbolic?

DUCKWORTH: No, it's not -- it's not more -- it is something we need to do.

And if we don't pass it now, we're going to keep working at it. And we're going to keep hammering away at it until we do get it passed, because, obviously, what has happened is, the Supreme Court has indicated that they're about to rip away -- a small group of Supreme Court far right justices are about to rip away what American women have thought was enshrined for the last 50 years and we have relied on 50 years, which is Roe v. Wade.

We thought this was established law. But now they have shown that they're don't believe it's so. So, the only thing that we can do as a legislative branch is to codify. And we may not pass it on the first try. But we're going to keep trying until we do.

CABRERA: Republicans who have been fighting to end up with a Supreme Court that might overturn Roe aren't exactly celebrating what is in this leaked draft opinion.

Senator Mitch McConnell, for example, he wouldn't even answer questions about the contents of the leaked draft, only focusing on the leak itself. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): You need, it seems to me -- excuse the lecture -- to concentrate on what the news is today, not a leaked draft, but the fact that the draft was leaked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And that was the answer after he was pressed over and over again by our Manu Raju to answer the question about the contents of what was in this leaked draft.

Why be so evasive on something they have openly been fighting for all along? Does it surprise you Republican lawmakers aren't celebrating this as a victory?

DUCKWORTH: It's not surprising to me, because, listen, studies have shown that over 70 percent, 7-0 percent of Americans believe that the right to choice should be legal.

And, in fact, what the Republicans want to do, to strip away reproductive choice from women, is not what the American people want. So, of course, they want to hide from the truth. Listen, in a nation with a growing maternal mortality crisis, often

inaccessible health care, without affordable child care or universal paid leave, what they're doing is, they're forcing births on millions of people, even when the mother's life could be at risk, or even in cases of rape and incest.

Of course, he's going to hide from it because he's wrong. He's in the wrong place on this.

CABRERA: If Roe is overturned, how far do you think this could go?

DUCKWORTH: I think this could go a very long way.

And one of the things that people are not talking about, it's not just about abortion. Yes, that is critically important. It's about reproductive choice. In my case, it would it -- it can go as far as to have prevented me from being able to use IVF fertility treatments to have my two daughters, because many of the forms of IVF treatment would be counter to some of these laws that are being passed in these states that want to ban all forms of abortion.

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In fact, my doctor implanting a fertilized egg in me or having to destroy a fertilized egg because it wasn't viable would not -- would be considered manslaughter.

And, in fact, I had to have a D&C. I had to have one of these procedures after I had a miscarriage. And I had to have it because I wanted to have a second baby, so that I could have my rainbow baby. But I couldn't do that unless I had the D&C to make sure that I fully recovered from my miscarriage.

What this could lead to is the loss of all sorts of access for all sorts of other rights that we assume are enshrined in the Constitution, and yet that the Supreme Court is saying if there is no word specifically to that, then you're not entitled to that.

And it's really scary, because I think about all the families that are trying to start families and won't be able to if these laws take effect.

CABRERA: Justice Alito did write in this leaked draft opinion -- quote -- "We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion."

Do you take him at his word there?

DUCKWORTH: I don't take him at his word there, because what he also said was that the word abortion is not enshrined in the Constitution.

But you know what? Neither is privacy. The word privacy isn't in the Constitution either. The enumerated rights that he does mention in this brief talks about all of the other things that we assume are rights that we have that our founders never could even dream of.

They couldn't dream of IVF, for example. And, certainly, in vitro fertilization is in the Constitution. This has great potential negative effects all across the country. But let's focus back here. We're talking about taking away the reproductive choice, the right to reproductive choice for women that we have relied on for 50 years, that were enshrined in law and Roe v. Wade.

And, by the way, some of these justices who are on this, who are on this -- who are agreeing to this draft said that this was established law. Well, obviously, they were not telling the truth when they came before the Senate asking for us to confirm them.

CABRERA: Senator Duckworth, thank you very much for joining us today. Appreciate your time.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you.

CABRERA: Soon, the Federal Reserve is expected to ramp up its effort to tame inflation. What the likely rate hike means for you and why some experts say it could spark a recession.

Plus, what police are saying about the shocking attack on Dave Chappelle during his show at the Hollywood Bowl.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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