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Amber Heard Details More Alleged Abuse by Johnny Depp; Audio; McCarthy Said 25th Amendment "Takes Too Long," Wanted to Reach Out to President-Elect Joe Biden After 1/6; GOP Rep. Madison Cawthorn Calls Nude Tape "Blackmail"; German Prosecutor "Sure" He's Identified Madeleine McCann's Murderer; JonBenet Ramsey's Dad Wants 3rd Party to Take Over DNA Testing. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 05, 2022 - 13:30   ET




ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Amber Heard is on the stand today with more testimony against ex-husband, Johnny Depp.

She describes an argument they had after attending an event together. Listen.


AMBER HEARD, FORMER WIFE OF JOHNNY DEPP: We get back to the hotel room, and Johnny shoves me and kind of grabs me by the collarbone area. Not really my neck, but top of my neck. Top -- above my collarbone, below my neck.

I think at that point, when we were still in the living room, I shoved him back, but I can't -- I don't really recall too many specifics. I remember he threw a bottle at me. It missed me but broke the chandelier.

And at some point, I remember -- maybe this was the shove that I was talking about. But at some point, Johnny and I are in a struggle in the living room, and he kind of shoves me down on the sofa, and I get up, and I'm trying to get him off of me.

And it's just -- stronger than me. I don't know how else to describe it. At some point, he just whacks me in the face.


CABRERA: Heard went onto say she thought her nose was broken after the fight.

Depp denies hitting her ever. He is suing her for $50 million in damages over the accusations of abuse she raised in 2018 in an op-ed. Depp argues the accusations are false, and ultimately ruined his career.

With us is a criminal defense attorney, Sara Azari. Sara, first, just a reaction to Heard's testimony?

SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, Ana, what we're hearing, this is a "he said, she said" case. We heard what he said. We're hearing what she says.

Of course, there's tears, emotions, things that are missing on paper in her initial allegations and even in the op-ed she wrote.

But we can't forget the testimony that we heard over the last three weeks about how Depp was the victim of domestic violence in this relationship.

So she's describing different kinds of abuse, emotional abuse, coercion, jealousy, and physical abuse. But we can't take this out of context.

Of course, she hasn't been cross-examined. That's where usually testimony falls apart.

CABRERA: But jurors are listening to her describe very disturbing and violent physical and sexual abuse. And she notably is looking right at the jurors as she speaks.

I want you to listen to another clip from her testimony today describing a moment she says Depp kicked her after a fight on a plane.


HEARD: My back is turned to him, and I feel this boot in my back. He just kicked me in the back. I fell to the floor. I caught myself on the floor.

And I just felt like I was looking at the floor of the plane for what felt like a long time. I thought to myself, I don't know what to do. I can't believe he just -- did he just kick me?

No one said anything. No one did anything. It was like you could -- you could hear a pin drop on that plane. You could feel the tension. But no one did anything. And I just remember feeling so embarrassed.


CABRERA: We showed the cut away to Johnny Depp also there. And as you pointed out, jurors already heard his side of the story to some of the accusations.

Do you feel Amber Heard's testimony has helped or hurt her defense?

AZARI: Well, I don't think -- I think it will start to hurt possibly on cross-examination.

I'm not sure if it's really helped. Because, Ana, Depp set a high bar in terms of likability and relatability that I'm not sure she can meet, let alone beat.

You have the substance of her testimony. Also testifying about different forms of abuse.

But then you also look at the form. You know, and I've been doing this for 20 years. I'm by no means a body language expert. But there's something a little unauthentic, a little rehearsed about her testimony. And I'm not sure that the jury is going to relate to her the way they

related to Depp.

And also, again, we can't throw out all the evidence that we heard between witnesses, recordings, admissions by her that she was striking Depp.


CABRERA: So at this point -- and I know it's not over -- but how do you think this might end?

AZARI: Well, you know, Ana, there's two proceedings here. There's the court of public opinion and then there's the court of law where this trial is proceeding.

And I think what Depp has done is he's brought his truth into this court of law. He's using the court of law to prove his truth in the court of public opinion.

In terms of popularity, I think he's winning.

In terms of legalities in this case, he has really high hurdles. He has damages he hasn't been able to prove. He has actual malice, the intent element, which is very difficult to prove. And so he very well might lose this case.

But, Ana, I think what we need to keep in mind is that this is a very atypical situation. Typically, a man gets accused of a me-too type of conduct. He loses his job, life. Life is cancelled. Goes away and we never hear from him again.

Here you have a guy who so vehemently believes in his truth and believes in challenging these allegations that he has come forward in offense, not defense, not once, but twice in lawsuits in the U.K. and now in Virginia.

And that really sort of speaks volumes. And also it begs the question, will other men come forward when they feel wrongly accused?

CABRERA: Sara Azari, thank you very much for giving us your perspective and your expertise in these matters.

AZARI: Good to see you, Ana.

CABRERA: Good to see you, too.

There's new trouble for Republican Congressman Madison Cawthorn. Why he's calling a newly surfaced video of him naked in bed with a friend blackmail.



CABRERA: Lordy, there are more tapes. Newly released audio reveals House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy discussed actually removing Donald Trump from office.

You're about to hear part of a call with GOP leaders just days after the capitol insurrection. Listen.


JOHN LEGANSKI, AIDE TO KEVIN MCCARTHY: I think the options that have been cited by the Democrats so far are the 25th Amendment, which is not exactly an elegant solution here.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): That takes too long, too. It goes back to the House. Right?

LEGANSKI: Yes, correct. If the president were to submit a letter overruling the cabinet and the vice president, two-thirds vote in the House and Senate to overrule the president. So it's kind of an armful.

Obviously, impeachment has been discussed. And then again, I mean, I think they want him to resign, which I don't see happening either.


CABRERA: McCarthy also says in this phone call that he wanted to reach out to then-President-Elect Joe Biden and create a smooth transition into the White House.

CNN's Melanie Zanona is joining us now.

Melanie, how many more tapes could there be out there?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, if you're Kevin McCarthy, you're hoping there are zero more tapes.

It has been a rocky few weeks for the GOP leader as "The New York Times" has reported on a number of private conversations that he had about Donald Trump in the days after January 6th.

And what is striking to me, Ana, is just how serious the conversations were in the upper levels of GOP leadership about removing Trump from office. Whether that was asking him to resign, invoking the 25th Amendment, or impeachment.

Now, Kevin McCarthy did rule out both the 25th Amendment and impeachment. It's not because he didn't think Trump would deserve those options. It's because, with the 25th Amendment, he thought it would take too long. And impeachment, he thought would be too divisive for the country.

So the question now becomes, is there going to be any political fallout for Kevin McCarthy, who has been caught on tape bashing not only Trump but some of his colleagues?

But what I can tell is that, so far, he has weathered the storm here. And a big reason for that is because Donald Trump has remained firmly in his corner. They actually met just this week. They have a good relationship.

And another reason is that a lot of Republicans privately felt exactly like Kevin McCarthy did after January 6th. They're not keen to hold this all against him -- Ana?

CABRERA: Melanie Zanona, we know you will keep us posted. Thank you so much, Melanie.

To another lawmaker on tape that we won't be playing for you. Republican Congressman Madison Cawthorn is now addressing a video that appears to show him naked in bed with a so-called friend.

The video was released by an opposition group as the embattled freshman congressman fights for reelection in North Carolina. And it is just the latest in a string of Cawthorn controversies.

CNN's Jessica Dean is following this for us.

Jessica, Cawthorn isn't denying it's him in the video. So what is he saying?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Ana. That's the takeaway. He's not saying this isn't him. And he's not denying it. What he is saying is this is an attack on him.

Let's show you what he posted to Twitter in a statement.

He said, 'A new hit against me just dropped. Years ago, in this video, I was being crass with a friend trying to be funny. We were acting foolish and joking. That's it."

"I'm not backing down. I told you there would be a drip, drip campaign. Blackmail won't win. We will."

But as you mentioned, Ana, this is just the latest in a series of incidents that have cropped up for Congressman Madison Cawthorn as he stares a May primary in the face.

And in fact, members of his own party are turning against him. Senator Thom Tillis, a Republican from North Carolina, has endorsed his opponent.

Here's what he said to my colleague, Manu Raju.



MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you think of Madison Cawthorn's video that came out last night?

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Absurd to embarrassing. I mean, got to go to --


RAJU: What if he wins this primary? What would that mean to the district?

TILLIS: Disappointed for his constituents, and that's why I'm working to avoid that outcome.


DEAN: So again, we're looking at a May 17th primary here. And this is just the latest in a series of incidents just in the last couple of weeks.

Cawthorn was cited at the Charlotte airport for attempting to carry a loaded gun through the TSA check point. That came just a little over a year after he was cited for trying to carry an unloaded gun and a loaded magazine onto a plane at the Ashville, North Carolina, airport.

He was also due in court on charges of driving with a revoked license. There's also some sexual misconduct allegations against him. So, Ana, all of these things really stacking up.

And he also made allegations, unfounded allegations that he had been invited to orgies where he saw various people from D.C., lawmakers doing cocaine, illegal drugs.

Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, saying there were no truth to any of this. But saying he really needs to -- Cawthorn really needed to earn his trust back because he didn't believe what was coming out of his mouth.

So quite a mess for Madison Cawthorn as he's trying to fight his way to reelection -- Ana?

CABRERA: Again, it is a current sitting member of Congress. May 17th is the primary. That's when we'll be watching closely.

Jessica Dean, thank you.

A new twist now in a mystery that has gripped the world for 15 years. A German prosecutor says he is now sure that he knows who killed Madeline McCann. That's next.



CABRERA: A German prosecutor says there's new evidence in the Madeleine McCann case 15 years after she disappeared in Portugal while on vacation with her parents.

Christian Bruckner was named an official suspect last month. And now the prosecutor says he is sure Bruckner killed the 3-year-old British girl. CNN's Nada Bashir is London for us.

Nada, do we know what this new evidence is? And we're talking about a British girl who disappeared in Portugal. Why a German prosecutor?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, Ana, this could certainly be one of the most significant leads we've heard in the investigation of Madeleine's disappearance. As you mentioned there, 15 years on since she went missing.

The reason why this is a concern for the German prosecutors is because one of the key suspects are now identified, as you mentioned, Christian Bruckner, is a German.

He's currently serving jailtime in Germany for the rape of a woman in the very same region when Madeleine McCann went missing back in May 2007. He has been convicted of previous offenses.

And according to the German prosecutor, who gave an interview to Portuguese broadcaster on Tuesday, Hans Christian Wolters, he said that new evidence has come to light linking Bruckner directly to Madeleine's case.

But as you mentioned, what's more important is that he said, in his words, he is sure that Christian Bruckner is responsible for the murder of Madeleine McCann.

That is perhaps the most definitive claim we've heard with regard to Christian Bruckner's involvement in Madeleine McCann's case.

The question now, of course, is, what is that all important evidence? The prosecutor was careful not to give details on that.

Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It is true that if you find something belonging to Madeleine in the caravan of Christian Bruckner?

HANS CHRISTIAN WOLTERS, GERMAN PROSECUTOR: To the details of the investigations, I cannot give you a command.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you can't deny it, can you?

WOLTERS: I don't want to deny it.


BASHIR: The fact that he said he doesn't want to deny it is important.

The investigation itself is still ongoing. But Christian Bruckner has previously denied any involvement in Madeleine McCann's abduction. He said that, on the night Madeleine disappeared, he was with his then girlfriend. But what's important about the interview that the prosecutor gave to

that Portuguese broadcaster is that he said he believes Bruckner doesn't have an alibi.

So that could certainly be a very significant development in the investigation, and a key lead in the investigation.

And of course, a huge development for Madeleine's family. They have issued a statement saying they continue to hope for the best. They continue to hope that Madeleine is still alive.

But we've heard from the German prosecutors in the past, they said they don't believe Madeleine McCann is still alive. So this will be difficult news for her parents -- Ana?

CABRERA: Yes, no kidding. Such a huge mystery. And at least perhaps a new break and some more answers for her loved ones.

Nada Bashir, thank you.

And now an update to an infamous unsolved case here in the U.S., the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey back in 1996.

Her father is now asking the Colorado governor to let an outside agency take over DNA testing in this case rather than let Boulder police handle it.

Here is John Ramsey this morning here on CNN.


JOHN RAMSEY, FATHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: DNA is the answer in our case. I've been told that by experienced detectives. They said, this is a DNA case. It will be solved by DNA.

The police knew they had unidentified male DNA literally within days of JonBenet's murder. And to this day, it's still unidentified.


CABRERA: The governor says he is reviewing the petition asking him to intervene.

And we are hearing from Dave Chappelle for the first time since a man with a knife attacked him on stage at the Hollywood Bowl.

A representative for Chappell released this statement.


I quote, "As unfortunate and unsettling as this incident was, Chappelle went on with the show. Jamie Foxx and Chris Rock helped calm the crowd with humor before Chappelle introduced the last and featured musical guest for the evening."

Adding, "Chappelle is fully cooperating with the active police investigation into this incident."

The suspect has been identified as 23-year-old Isaiah Lee. He was armed with a knife fashioned to look like a handgun. So far, a motive is still unknown.

That does it for us today. Thanks for joining us. Let's end the week together tomorrow, same time, same place. Until then, I'm on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

The news continues right after this.