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First Lady Jill Biden Makes Surprise Visit To Ukraine On Mother's Day; Russia Bombs School Shelter, 60 Feared Dead; Hunt For Escaped Inmate, Jail Officer Expands With New Evidence; Biden, Dems Warn Overturning Roe Will Jeopardize Other Rights; Lockheed Martin Urges Domestic Production Of Microprocessors; Mortgage Rates Hit Highest Level Since 2009. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 08, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: The first lady's visit on Mother's Day to meet with the Ukrainian first lady I think sends a very strong, a very positive message.

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were 90 people sheltering in the basement of this school, and the Russian bomb was dropped on the school. Sixty people are most likely dead.

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): Every day of this war the Russian army does something that is beyond words.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): What I'm doing and what many of my colleagues are doing are pushing for a vote next week. We are going to be aggressive with all our colleagues and with our Republican allies to vote for codifying Roe v. Wade. We are not giving up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that the overturning of Roe is the correct decision by the court.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know you're worried about the price of gas, food, and other necessities.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Federal Reserve decided to raise a key interest rate a half a percent to fight inflation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With the new interest hikes, we don't really know what our bottom line is anymore. That's a moving target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

In southern Ukraine, Russia adds insult to injury amid widespread devastation. The man you see right here in the flak jacket is Russia's deputy prime minister. He is the most senior Kremlin official to set foot in Mariupol since the unprovoked war began. During a photo-op tour of several cities, he promised humanitarian assistance to help ease the suffering caused by his own government.

And here's one example of the carnage. A school in eastern Ukraine where nearly an entire village was taken shelter. Ukraine says a Russian warplane bombed it. About 60 people are missing and they are feared dead.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made an unannounced visit to Ukraine today and met with President Zelenskyy. Trudeau then announced the reopening of the Canadian embassy in Kyiv. Also making a surprise visit today, First Lady Jill Biden. She met with Ukraine's first lady, and they both recognized the symbolism of sharing Mother's Day in a warzone with so many sons and daughters being killed.

Let's begin this hour with Jill Biden's visit to Ukraine. CNN's Kate Bennett is traveling with the first lady.

And Kate, I'm curious, why did the first lady think it was so important to go to Ukraine, take the risk that would come with that, although no doubt there is heavy security. Why was this so important for her to do this and meet with the first lady of Ukraine on this Mother's Day?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first and foremost, she wanted to go to this part of the world since the war began. She's been very affected by the images she's been seeing. And this trip to Romania and Slovakia has been planned for quite some time to visit with refugees, especially mothers and children. She wanted to do it around Mother's Day weekend and make that connection to the fortitude and the courage of these Ukrainian refugee mothers who left their country with just their children and very little else.

Now, the portion with first lady of Ukraine, Olena Zelenska, came in only about 10 days ago I'm told when she reached out to the White House, to the East Wing and said that she was willing and wanted to meet with Dr. Biden. Now you have to remember the first lady of Ukraine has been in hiding, no one has seen her publicly since February 24th, the start of the Russian invasion, until today.

So what brought her out of hiding was really this face-to-face, one- on-one meeting with Jill Biden centered around the crisis. Jill Biden wanted to say to her that the United States supports her mission, supports Ukraine, and the Ukrainian first lady wanting to thank Jill Biden for visiting in a country that's, as you said, a dangerous visit, she was there for just under two hours. About 15-minute drive from the Slovakian border.

But it really was something that was a courageous move. A first lady has not been in an active warzone since Laura Bush visited Afghanistan solo in 2005 and in 2008. So it's certainly a unique thing that Jill Biden did today.

BROWN: And what did the two first ladies talk about when they met?

BENNETT: Well, I've been told that they had a closed-door bilateral meeting for part of their visit. And Mrs. Zelenska really talked to Dr. Biden about mental health. She's very concerned about the mental health and well-being of children, of families, and of soldiers fighting this war. She's concerned that after it's over there will be emotional upheaval for so many millions of Ukrainians and those affected by the war.

[18:05:02]

The first lady of America, of course, Dr. Biden, is familiar with the mental health issues, especially of children because of the pandemic. So it was something the two found relatable. But this is also part of a letter that Mrs. Zelenska sent to Jill Biden back in April already expressing the concern about mental health for her country and the citizens of her country. So certainly this was part of an ongoing conversation.

It was really special to be in Ukraine and see these two women come together, especially on Mother's Day.

BROWN: Yes. What an incredible experience. Kate Bennett, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

And let's turn to the apparent Russian airstrike on a school where dozens of people are feared dead. CNN's Sam Kiley spoke to some of those who survived the nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This for Vladimir Putin is what a modern Russian victory looks like. Dozens dead or missing from a Russian airstrike on a Russian-speaking village as part of the Russian campaign that Putin says is to protect his kinfolk in Ukraine.

The rescue is a saying the heat's overwhelming. Local authorities fear about 60 people died here. This was a school in Bilohorivka in eastern Ukraine. Villagers were sheltering in its basement. Some have been there for weeks. Survivors were left with little but grief. We asked if his family had been with him. His mother didn't survive.

(On-camera): It is not lost on anybody here that on the eve of Vladimir Putin's celebration of the Soviet victory in the Second World War over Nazi Germany, it is civilians who are suffering the most in the name of Vladimir Putin's de-Nazification of Ukraine, a country with a Jewish president.

(Voice-over): "I got slammed down by a slab bent into a ball, then another explosion, small rocks sprinkled darkness. Then I looked and the dust settled and a ray of light appeared. Sergei crawled out, then he dug me out, dug our Uncle Tolia (PH) out. Dug Aunt Ayra (PH) out. We crawled, all in a fog," he said.

Ukraine has stalled Russia's plans for conquest. So the Kremlin's added strategic sites like oil supplies to its target list and stepped up its airstrikes against civilians in eastern Ukraine. This week hitting a residential block in the strategic city of Kramatorsk. Ukrainian politicians refer to Putin's campaign ideology as a fascist creed they call Russisism (PH). Speaking soon after the latest airstrikes, he said they shoot

prisoners, they torture women and children, they rape, they loot. They go step by step towards Nazism.

Such explanations for what is happening here don't really answer the painful question -- why.

Sam Kiley, Bakhmut, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Unfathomable brutality.

Well, there is new evidence in the hunt for an Alabama corrections officer and the murder suspect she allegedly helped escape. As investigators continue to chase leads and tips, they are now releasing video showing Vicky White at a hotel before the escape in hopes that these images will help lead to the fugitives.

CNN's Nadia Romero joins us. So, Nadia, you actually talked to one of Casey White's victims. What did they tell you?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela. We're in Limestone County right now and this is where Casey White went on a crime spree back in 2015, a carjacking and a long list of convictions. Attempted murder, robbery, kidnapping. And that's what was supposed to put him in prison for 75 years. Of course, he escaped last Friday. And so we spoke with one of his victims who was burglarized by Casey White, a man named Josh Goan who was living in his home and he says he was minding his own business, didn't think anything of it, went to bed that night, woke up the next morning.

And his neighbor told him that this man came over and tried to carjack him while he was holding his infant. Josh realized that his gun was stolen and that Casey White used his gun in all of those crimes. Josh then helped to testify against Casey White and he thought that everything would be put to bed, but he had nightmares and he had to deal with this for long after. And it changed his perspective on the world after being a victim of Casey White. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH GOAN, VICTIM OF CASEY WHITE: It honestly shocked me. I locked my doors after that. You know, it definitely -- it stole a little bit of my peace, a little bit of my security. The fact that he is out in the world is a terrible thing for society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: He says that when he was testifying against Casey White, he didn't see any kind of remorse, that he just didn't care about his crimes.

[18:10:06]

But for Josh, he said it forever changed him. Now he locks his doors, he locks his car, he checks his surroundings. He moved, all of the other victims of that crime spree have moved. Many of them are unwilling to speak with us because they are so fearful and that they are forever impacted by Casey White. Of course Josh and the other victims we spoke to really want him caught and back behind bars. That's where they believe he should be -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Nadia Romero, thank you for that.

And later on in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday, Lauderdale County Sheriff Rick Singleton joins me live with the latest on this investigation. That is coming up tonight at 8:00.

And still ahead, the leak of a Supreme Court draft opinion has fired up both sides of the abortion rights debate. But what could America look like post Roe v. Wade? I'm going to ask civil rights lawyer Areva Martin about that up next.

Plus, rising mortgage rates and soaring home prices. So what can home buyers do right now? I'm going to ask an expert for some tips on that.

Plus --

(MUSIC)

BROWN: First Ed Sheeran, now U2, a Ukrainian pop star keeps teaming up with big-named musicians. I'm going to talk to him live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:34]

BROWN: Well, some women spent part of Mother's Day marching to the Supreme Court, protesting the draft opinion that would strike down Roe versus Wade. Now since the draft leaked, there have been a number of protests outside the court and in cities across the country. Democrats say they're planning a vote Wednesday that would codify Roe versus. Wade making abortion rights legal.

Meanwhile, in Madison, Wisconsin, police say a conservative group's office was targeted in an arson attack and sprayed with graffiti. The group Wisconsin Family Action lobbies against abortion and same-sex marriage. Fortunately no one was hurt in that attack.

Well, President Biden and Democrats warn a ruling overturning Roe could extend far beyond abortion access. They say it could be used to restrict other rights that are taken for granted as settled law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: If it becomes a law and if what is written is what remains, it goes far beyond the concern of whether or not there is a right to choose. It goes to other basic rights, the right to marriage, the right to determine a whole range of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is CNN legal analyst and civil rights attorney Areva Martin.

Hi, Areva. So what is the basis for this concern?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I think there's a legitimate concern, Pam, with regards to this leaked opinion. And I think the president said it best. If this opinion becomes the ultimate final decision, and we don't know if it will because there is time for the justices to change their minds and even to change their votes. But the big concern is that this umbrella called the right to privacy, which is what the Roe versus Wade decision was decided under, there are other rights under that umbrella, like the right to marriage.

And we know same-sex marriage is a fairly new constitutional right or established right under the Constitution, rights to interracial marriage, rights to contraception, these intimate rights that individuals have had throughout the history of this country are, in many folks' eyes, at risk because of this decision. So you hear a lot of people say that this is about abortion. But many of us believe that this is much, much bigger than abortion rights.

It's really about the right to privacy, and the government not intervening and having decisions over not just women's reproductive health but about a whole range of privacy rights.

BROWN: In the draft opinion, Alito writes, "We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedence that do not concern the right to abortion."

So when you read that, what do you think?

MARTIN: Well, Pamela, that decision also almost 100 pages also says that abortion is not specifically enumerated in the Constitution. And it suggests that if a right isn't specifically identified that there is no protection for it. And this whole notion about precedent we saw those three Supreme Court justices appointed by Donald Trump, particularly Amy Coney Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh, establish that or at least say before the confirmation hearing that Roe was precedent.

But yet we see them being a part of the five that are voting to overturn Roe. So this notion that something is precedent and therefore off limits, I don't think we have much confidence in that because we have this evidence that even though these justices have said before the Senate that this was precedent Roe v. Wade, now they are acting in a way contrary to that. So I think there is this same level of distrust as it relates to the reasoning in the opinion by Justice Alito as we have seen with respect to those confirmation hearings.

BROWN: And as you well know, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it will have a major impact in states across the country. Several states have already signaled their intention to restrict or outright ban abortion. In Louisiana there is a bill advancing through the state legislature that would classify abortions as homicides. Arkansas has a trigger law that would make abortion a felony except to save the life of a mother. And there are other states that don't want to make an exception for rape. It is interesting, as Jeffrey Toobin pointed out earlier, that

essentially these states would be criminalizing what is right now a constitutional right. How worried do women and providers have to be now about potential criminal prosecution if they are in a state that ends up banning abortion?

[18:20:04]

MARTIN: Pamela, I think they have to be extremely worried about it. And it's important to note, prior to the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, about 200 women every year die from abortion procedures. And many women use self-induced methods, either they would take poison or take some kind of chemical to abort a baby. Many women threw themselves downstairs. Some went to unregulated providers. So it's not as if abortions weren't happening in this country pre-Roe.

And the fear is that those same kinds of methods that led to death and serious injury to women will be utilized. And we know women, particularly women of color, particularly low-income women, they'll be forced to try to come up with resources to travel. And many of them won't be able to travel to states where abortion is legal.

So there are serious concerns about the criminalization of it as well as the health and well-being of women if Roe is overturned in each states, and at this point it looks like half of the country, at least, you know, half of the states in the country are going to criminalize abortion in some form or fashion.

BROWN: And it does raise all kinds of questions specifically in those states that would just outright ban abortion saying life begins at conception. It does raise questions about, OK, well, what now for the frozen embryos, for example, and IVF and so forth? Legally, what do you make of that?

MARTIN: I think those, all of those, the rights, again, to control your reproductive health, all of those rights are at stake now or at risk now. And those that you mentioned, Pamela, but also contraceptives, also the abortion pill. You know, many women take an actual pill that's available now, that's legal, that's permissible under the law. What's going to happen with that pill? Will it be illegal in some states but legal in other states where you have to travel from Mississippi to California to have access to that pill?

Will you be criminalized if you take the pill out of the state of California and take it back to a state like Mississippi? So there are so many questions like that that have not been answered because we don't know ultimately what's going to happen to Roe. But it makes activism, it makes those of us who are for the choice that women have had very concerned.

And then, Pamela, the big question is, we can't name one case that any Supreme Court has decided on, ruled on, that regulates men's reproductive systems, that regulates the health of men in a way that this decision would regulate women. So when you just think about the fundamental fairness of it, really it regulates women to second-class citizens, gives men a set of rights that women aren't entitled to. So the reasoning that Alito uses in that draft opinion is very

curious. And many people very distrusting of this notion that it's somehow limited just to abortions. And even in its limiting language sees it to be a complete contradiction of well-established jurisprudence.

BROWN: So much passion on both sides of this issue.

Areva Martin, I appreciate you coming on to share your perspective on it. Thank you so much.

MARTIN: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, workers at an Alabama plant are scrambling to make more Javelin antitank missiles, but could cranking out more weapons for Ukraine mean fewer weapons for the U.S.? I'll ask "Washington Post" columnist Max Boot about just that, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:27:56]

BROWN: Just days after President Biden visited a weapons-making facility in Alabama to thank workers for helping to get essential weapons to Ukraine, we're hearing from their boss. Lockheed Martin is in the process of nearly doubling production of antitank Javelin missiles. Each one has about 250 microprocessors from Asian suppliers. And that is one factor delaying the boost in production.

Lockheed's CEO says Congress needs to act quickly to help fund domestic production because it will take time to build that infrastructure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IM TAICLET, CEO, LOCKHEED MARTIN: It takes years. And so we're collaborating right now, for example, with Intel. It's one of our partners in trying to drive what we call 21st century security, international defense. And we're going to need the most advanced processors. And we're going to need them to be customizable to defense needs as well. So having that domestic capability, again, to go all the way through production and testing is going to be more important in the future than it is even today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I want to bring in Max Boot, senior fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations and columnist at the "Washington Post."

Hi, Max. So there is also the concern about the U.S. being able to maintain a healthy stockpile for itself. How much concern is there, or should there be about relaying on Asian microprocessors?

MAX BOOT, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Obviously in the long run you want to be able to move production for microprocessors to the United States. And some of that is happening now. There's a bill in Congress that would certainly encourage that and make it easier which needs to pass. But these are all issues for the long run, the immediate priority is to help Ukraine win the war and the most important thing we can do for the defense of the United States, for the defense of NATO, for the defense of democracy in the world is to ensure that Ukraine defeats the Russian invasion.

So I would not be worried at this point about running down U.S. stockpiles of Javelins or other weapons. We need to meet the needs of the moment, which is to get everything we possibly can to Ukraine. And I think President Biden understands that. Now he just needs Congress to approve the new request for more than $30 billion in additional funding because the Defense Department is running out of money under the current appropriation to help Ukraine.

[18:30:11]

BROWN: In your recent op-ed piece for "The Washington Post," you suggest Russia is learning firsthand why it's better to play defense in a war than to be the aggressor. Why do you think that?

BOOT: Well, there's been a shift in technology where, you know, in World War II and immediately afterwards, there was a sense that the attacker had the advantage and warfare with tanks and aircraft, but now you're seeing a shift towards the defender. And that's what I was highlighting in that article with weapons like the Javelin or the NLA or the Stinger and also drones like the TB2 drones from Turkey that Ukraine has been using so effectively.

It makes it much harder to attack because those are relatively low- cost weapons that can wreak devastation among high-cost weapons systems like tanks and aircraft and even warships. I mean, you saw Ukraine which doesn't even have a Navy but they sank the Moskva cruiser which is the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet.

So it's not -- you know, you can still attack, but it becomes much harder, and the Russians are paying a heavy price because the Ukrainians are showing themselves to be very capable defenders employing the weapons that the West has been supplying them.

BROWN: Yes, they certainly have. It struck me today that Zelenskyy said in this meeting he had with G7 that -- with the G7, that his ultimate aim is a complete Russia withdrawal from Ukraine. And I'm wondering what your take is on that. Of course he wants a complete withdrawal of Russians from Ukraine. But is that realistic? Do you see any scenario that actually happening? If not, what is sort of the best worst-case scenario for Ukraine in your view?

BOOT: President Zelenskyy I think has a pretty realistic view of the situation because he's pretty regularly said that even though he would like to see Russia withdraw, he could imagine negotiating with Russia as long as they withdraw not completely but rather to the lines of February 24th before the current invasion started, which implicitly concedes that Russia is probably not going to leave all of eastern Ukraine and certainly not going to give up Crimea, which is territory that they seized in 2014. So I think, you know, there is certainly the potential to push Russia

much further back in Donbas and eastern Ukraine, I think you will see that their offensive is going to run out of gas in the next few weeks, and the Ukrainians are already starting to counterattack around Kharkiv, and they can expand that counterattack and probably retake some of the ground that they have lost at the beginning of the war beginning in February 24th.

But I think it's going to be, you know, a heavy lift for them to eject Russia from all Ukrainian territory especially from Crimea, which is supported by the Russian fleet and is a very hard target. They're not anywhere close to being able to take Crimea. So I think if Ukraine can simply get Russia back to the February 24 lines and then we can still maintain sanctions on Russia, I think that's going to be a tremendous victory for Ukraine.

That's going to be a defeat of the aggression that's going to be a massive, massive blow to Putin. But he's going to have trouble hiding from his own population.

BROWN: And you think that's a realistic scenario?

BOOT: That is a realistic scenario, absolutely. Russia has taken some territories since February 24th. But they're being rolled back as we speak. And the Russians are losing equipment at a rapid rate. They've lost over 3,000 vehicles, according to open-source reporting, hundreds and hundreds of tanks. And the Ukrainians actually have more tanks now than they did at the start of the war.

They now have better weaponry. They now have American artillery that can outrange Russian artillery. So I think what you're going to see in the next few week is that while the Russian offensive is going to get weaker, the Ukrainians will get stronger. And we don't know how it's going to turn out, but I think that there is certainly an opportunity for the Ukrainians to push the Russians back from a lot of the territory that they gained at the start of this war.

BROWN: Max Boot, thank you.

BOOT: Thank you.

BROWN: Rising interest rates may cool off the hot housing market. How will that affect homeowners and people looking to buy a house right now? We're going to break it down next with David Green from the "Bigger Pockets" podcast.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:08]

BROWN: The governor of New York testing positive for COVID. This from Democratic Governor Kathy Hochul, "Today I tested positive for COVID- 19. Thankfully I'm vaccinated and boosted and I'm asymptomatic. I'll be isolating and working remotely this week. A reminder to all New Yorkers, get vaccinated and boosted, get tested and stay home if you don't feel well." Hochul's positive test comes as parts of New York have moved into the

high destination of COVID-19 community level, according to the CDC.

Well, a grim warning tonight from the White House on a potential massive wave of COVID cases in the coming months. Today, Biden's -- President Biden's COVID chief says it is possible that the U.S. could see as many as 100 million new cases of COVID this fall and winter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We're looking at a range of models, both internal and external models.

[18:40:01]

And what they're predicting is that if we don't get ahead of this thing, we're going to have a lot of waning immunity, this virus continues to evolve, and we may see a pretty sizeable wave of infections, hospitalizations, and deaths this fall and winter.

We're going to need Congress' help. And that's one of the key messages here is we need the resources to fight that battle so we don't have that kind of a fall or winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The Biden administration requested more than $22 billion in supplemental COVID relief funding back in March and a massive government funding package. But it was stripped from the bill.

Well, the housing market is red hot, but could that be coming to an end? Moody's predicts the two-year boom might start to wind down and some cities could see housing prices drop by up to 10 percent.

David Greene joins me now, he is the host of "The Bigger Pockets" podcast and author of a book "Skill: A Top Producing Agent's Guide to Earning Unlimited Income."

That sounds pretty good to me, David. All right. So, let's talk about these mortgage rates. They have hit their highest levels since 2009. The Fed is hiking interest rates. Home buyers are worried. What do you think is on the horizon?

DAVID GREENE, HOST, "BIGGER POCKETS" PODCAST: Well, we know that we have more rate hikes expected. We've been told that. So it's not a surprise that this is happening. Those of us that are in the industry have known for a while that rate hikes were coming. So I would expect this to continue in the future.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to have the effect that most people are hoping for, which is lowered home prices. Real estate's always local so it depends on where you live. But the supply/demand problem is much bigger than something just an interest rate hike can fix.

BROWN: So explain on that a little bit more, why you think it won't drive down the prices, more of your thinking behind that.

GREENE: Yes. You know, in a perfect world of supply is even with demand, when interest rates end up going up, what that does is it actually decreases demand. Because homes become less affordable. But in our world that we're living in now, we have such a huge discrepancy between how much demand we have for homes and the supply that we can actually provide.

Interest rates may lower demand a little bit, but it still keeps such a big difference between the two. We have a huge housing shortage. And so what I'm anticipating is that for those that are sort of on the lower end of the economic spectrum who could barely afford to get into the market, this rate hike is going to take them out of the game.

But for those that already have wealth, that already have equity and other properties that are doing 10-31 exchanges or who have sizeable amounts of wealth that they want to protect from inflation, they're still going to be buying real estate. And I don't think that there is enough supply to keep those people happy. So I don't see prices coming down in those specific markets.

BROWN: All right. So let's talk a little bit more about this in a more granular sense, just given the extra debt burden. What advice would you give a first-time home buyer who is still going to try to break into the housing ladder?

GREENE: Yes. I think this is a great time to be doing that. I am still buying houses myself. I'm buying them pretty frequently. The tricky scenario is that as a first-time home buyer, you probably don't have a ton of money, you're not as comfortable with real estate, and you're worried about if your income is going to stay strong as inflation makes everything that you want expensive.

The other issue is inflation in general is driving up the price of these homes. So even though the money that we have isn't worth the same as what it was, the price of the home keeps going up, giving the impression that you're creating wealth. Even if you're not necessarily doing so because your money's becoming worth less. So it's created this sort of dual-headed snake where you have to be investing in real estate if you want your money to keep its value because inflation is eroding it.

But investing in real estate becomes a little more scary because the prices are getting higher. So what we've come up with at "Bigger Pockets" is this concept called house hacking. And it's this idea of buying a primary residence that you're going to live in but renting out parts of that home to other people. This could be converting a garage. It could be having an ADU. It could be renting out the basement of your home while you live upstairs. Or some people even do it by the room.

But when you do this well, you end up owning a house but your tenants are paying the majority or all of your mortgage so that everybody gets cheaper housing.

BROWN: That seems like a really reasonable plan right there. So you mentioned this earlier just about those people who have built fortunes off of real estate, who have invested in real estate. Sounds like you're an investor in real estate. But with inflation so high right now, is property the best way to invest your money?

GREENE: Real estate typically does incredibly well in an inflationary environment. Maybe the best asset class that you could come up with. So with more and more inflation on the horizon, I'm actually dumping more money into real estate. So I'm connecting a 1031 exchange myself where I sold a bunch of properties in areas where I don't think that we're going to have as much appreciation, and I'm reinvesting that money into areas where I think we're going to have a bigger run-up in both rents and prices because I'm expecting inflation to be pretty rough.

Like as we've seen, it's already starting to affect us at the gas pumps, it's affecting us at the grocery store, and assets that produce income like real estate are being affected significantly as well.

[18:45:11]

So when I see this coming, when I see, hey, my money is going to be worth less and inflation is coming, I actually want to be buying more real estate.

BROWN: That's really interesting. Definitely making me think as well.

Really quickly, I want to get your take on what economics Professor Justin Wolfers told me last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN WOLFERS, ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY PROFESSOR: You can make mistakes in either direction. So it's just as likely the Fed won't move that hard, won't move that fast, and, in fact, the economy will keep motoring on a little too quickly. So the point here is simply that the balance of risks is remarkably balanced right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So if the Fed doesn't move hard enough and things keep spiraling, what does that mean for the housing market?

GREENE: Well, it will have a significant impact in areas where the demand and the supply are roughly even. You're going to see prices come down or at least the market slowdown in those areas because if people can't afford to pay the same for the house with rates going up, there's going to be less demand. But real estate is very local. So I live in the California bay area. There are not enough homes here for the people that are moving here.

We also see a big shift in population into the southeast. The developers are putting up houses as fast as they can over there and they're trying to sell them. Areas like Idaho, Montana, Arizona. They're exploding as Californians and New Yorkers are going into those areas. So something like that, you're not going to see prices come down just because rates went up. Inflation is going to make them go up even higher.

What I'm cautioning people about is that there are some folks who live on fixed incomes where they're not going to be getting raises consistent with inflation. So even though we see the price of these really desirable assets like real estate increasing with inflation, some people's wages are not going to. But yet the food that they need to eat, the gas that they need to buy, their utilities, those things can all be going up.

So if you're going to be investing in real estate, you want to make sure that you're doing it in an area where your tenants can actually afford the rent even as inflation eats away at their purchasing power.

BROWN: OK, 15 seconds. What would you suggest if someone is trying to figure out what to do with their money, to invest it in real estate or to invest it in the home they live in to make their home increase in value?

GREENE: I think that you buy a new house and you house hack it. So you get a home.

BROWN: OK.

GREENE: You rent out rooms and make affordable housing for other people.

BROWN: All right. David Greene, thanks so much. Great having you on the show. Learned a lot listening to you. And that's always the hope with these conversations.

His book "Skill: A Top-Producing Agent's Guide to Earning Unlimited Income" is out now.

We'll be right back.

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[18:52:11]

BROWN: Blazing sun and blazing speed. For the first time Formula 1 is racing in Miami. At least one driver calls it the Super Bowl of Formula 1. And why not? Stars like Tom Brady were there.

CNN's Amanda Davies has more on the glitz, glamour and gas.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: Pamela, this has been the hottest ticket in town. It's seriously been a who's who of A-listers over the last couple of days. Michelle Obama in the Mercedes garage despite of being a huge NBA weekend. We've had LeBron James and Michael Jordan in town alongside the likes of the Williams sisters, George Lucas, Will.i.am, David Beckham, Tom Brady, the list goes on and on.

An estimated 300,000 people have been here over the course of the weekend. For those who paid it hasn't come cheap. Tickets in the grand stand starting at $750. This, though, has been seen as a landmark weekend for Formula 1. The arrival of the second U.S. race on the calendar alongside Austin with of course Las Vegas joining the party next year.

It's the one the sports owner's Liberty Media really wanted to introduce when they took over in 2017. And while they might not have gotten the beachfront location they were hoping for because opposition from the locals, they did build a fake marina complete with super yachts where fans could watch the events unfold.

In terms of the interest it's been the perfect storm really. The general growth in interest combined with the Netflix series "Drive to Survive" really opening up Formula 1 to a whole new U.S. audience. The seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton said at last he feels his sport has joined the American conscience.

And with all the focus, the teams and the drivers have really wanted to put on a show and they did just that. The world champion Max Verstappen starting from third, taking the victory ahead of his title rival Charles Leclerc. The pair going toe to toe throughout the 57 laps.

This had been billed as Formula 1's Super Bowl. It was a heavyweight battle fitting of the NFL right here at home of the Miami Dolphins -- Pamela.

BROWN: Wow. Thanks so much.

Well, hate crimes against people of Asian descent have surged in the U.S. since the pandemic began and this week CNN Hero salutes Michelle Tran. She's a Chinese, a Vietnamese-American, whose nonprofit Soar Over Hate has provided more than 25,000 personal safety devices and self-defense classes to Asian Americans. Turnout far a recent New York event shows how worried the community is about safety.

[18:55:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE TRAN, 2022 CNN HERO: The day of our distribution the lines are past four blocks around the neighborhood where people waited almost two hours to for a personal safety device from us.

To make the noise, you pull out the pin. And it scares people away and it alerts people around you.

It was simultaneously heartbreaking but also motivating to see so many people come out. I think it highlighted the need and the fears that many folks like me are experiencing right now.

Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay safe. Bye.

TRAN: I hope that our work helps save lives. That's our only hope moving forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: To learn how Michelle and her organization are working to combat anti-Asian hate go to CNNHeroes.com.

Well, First Lady Jill Biden makes a surprise Mother's Day visit to Ukraine. The latest on her trip just ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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